Javier
sage
Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 434
Loc: New Jersey
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Before I shell out the cash on a H-Beta filter I'd like to get some opinions. I'm wondering if I have any chance of seeing the Horsehead Nebula at all. I live 20 minutes west of Manhattan in a fairly light polluted area. However around 4am when Orion is over my house the sky is darker as most lights have been shut off. I've seen excellent views of the Ring and Dumbell Nebula as well as the Orion Nebula.
I'll be using a 12" Lightbridge.
So do I stand a chance of seeing the Horsehead or am I just wasting my cash? 
Thanks,
Javier
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JakeSaloranta
sage
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 238
Loc: Sisu, Sauna, Sibelius...
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I'd say it is fairly impossible to say this or that without good limiting magnitude estimates/SQM readings. The only way to be sure is to try it for yourself.
If B33 is fairly high in the sky, say 40deg+, and the limiting magnitude is close to 6 in zenith and with fairly good background brightness... I'd say you might be able to glimpse it.
From my personal experience I have to say the limiting magnitude needs to be somewhere between 6.7 to 7+ for me to be able to spot the Horsehead with my 8" DSE + UHC filter.
/Jake
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HellsKitchen
sage
Reged: 09/05/08
Posts: 356
Loc: Melbourne Australia
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I can see it easily with my 12" using a H-beta filter under my mag 5.0 skies. I live in the outer suburbs so light pollution is not too bad. It's faint, but not particularly hard to detect.
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S 38º 00' E 145º20'
Custom 12" F/4.6 dob
10" GSO dob
Intes M500 Mak
4.5" Meade Newtonian
Set of Vixen LVWs + TV barlows + powermates
Astronomik 0III, UHC, H-beta filters
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skyward_eyes
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 2105
Loc: Arizona
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I have a 16" dob and I use an H-Beta filter to see it even from an extremely dark site. If you have the ability to get away from town you could easily see it with your 12" dob and a filter either UHC or H-Beta.
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Matt Lindsey
member
Reged: 06/06/08
Posts: 94
Loc: Baltimore, MD, U.S.A.
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Sounds like it will be tough, but you won't know unless you try. With 12" and the H-Beta you have a fighting chance. Plus, the filter works on many other objects so it's a good investment.
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Matt
12" f/4.9 custom strut Dob.
8x56 binos
Member: Howard Astronomical League
Working on: Herschel I and II lists, RASC challenge objects.
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joec33
super member
Reged: 06/13/09
Posts: 112
Loc: Chester, N.Y
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I'll be honest with you Javier. I have viewed in and around NYC plenty to know that your not going to get a good look at it (horsehead). BUT like Matt said, your not just limited to the horsehead with the H-Beta. Problem is with those nyc sky's your more then just limited. In my opinion it's a waste unless you get out to a darksky site often enough.
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“I'm not perfect, but who are we kidding, neither are you.”
Jeremy Grey
An Over accessorized XT10i
80mm Meade Series 5000 Apo w/duelspeed focuser
Vixen VMC110L
Orion Starblast6
Meade DSI PRO II, Orion S.S Autoguider
Advanced GT Mount
Kendrick Dew System
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rathbaster
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/21/08
Posts: 549
Loc: East Bridgewater, MA
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Quote:
Sounds like it will be tough, but you won't know unless you try.
My opinion as well.
You never know what you're going to see until you try. 
-Joe
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Bridgewater State College Observatory
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skyward_eyes
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 2105
Loc: Arizona
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Exactly! Whats the harm in trying? Go out have fun thats what its all about anyway! An H-Beta does a lot more then just bring out the Horsehead! It does very cool things on the Orion Nebula as well and numbers of other nebulas! I would say go for it, I believe the H-Beta is a very over looked filter and more people just really spend some time playing with them.
Best of luck in your hunt for the horse!
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8290
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
Exactly! Whats the harm in trying? Go out have fun thats what its all about anyway! An H-Beta does a lot more then just bring out the Horsehead! It does very cool things on the Orion Nebula as well and numbers of other nebulas! I would say go for it, I believe the H-Beta is a very over looked filter and more people just really spend some time playing with them.
Best of luck in your hunt for the horse!
Yes, indeed, the H-Beta can be used on objects other than the Horsehead:
USEFUL TARGETS FOR THE H-BETA FILTER
While the H-Beta is probably one of the less-used nebula filters, the commonly expressed idea that it works only on a handful of objects is not necessarily true. Here is a list of some of the more prominent objects that the H-Beta may be at least somewhat useful on. Some may require larger apertures, but a few have been seen from a dark sky site by just holding the filter up to the unaided eye and looking at the sky. Some of these will also be helped by a narrow-band filter like the Lumicon UHC.
1. IC 434 (HORSEHEAD NEBULA)
2. NGC 1499 (CALIFORNIA NEBULA, naked eye and RFT)
3. M43 (part of the Great Orion Nebula)
4. IC 5146 (COCOON NEBULA in Cygnus)
5. M20 (TRIFID NEBULA, main section)
6. NGC 2327 (diffuse nebula in Monoceros)
7. IC 405 (the FLAMING STAR NEBULA in Auriga)
8. IC 417 (diffuse Nebula in Auriga)
9. IC 1283 (diffuse Nebula in Sagittarius)
10. IC 1318 GAMMA CYGNI NEBULA (diffuse nebula in Cygnus)
11. IC 2177: (Diffuse Nebula, Monoceros)
12. IC 5076 (diffuse nebula, Cygnus)
13. PK64+5.1 "CAMPBELL'S HYDROGEN STAR" Cygnus (PNG 64.7+5.0)
14. Sh2-157a (small round nebula inside larger Sh2-157, Cassiopeia)
15. Sh2-235 (diffuse nebula in Auriga).
16. Sh2-276 "BARNARD'S LOOP" (diffuse nebula in Orion, naked eye)
17. IC 2162 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion)
18 Sh2-254 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion near IC 2162)
19. Sh2-256-7 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion near IC 2162)
20. vdB93 (Gum-1) (diffuse nebula in Monoceros near IC 2177)
21. Lambda Orionis nebular complex (very large, naked-eye)
In addition, a number of the brighter nebulae like NGC 7000 or M42 will respond to H-Beta use for revealing certain specific detail, although other filters may provide a somewhat better view overall.
Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 5029
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
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Go to a dark area on a dark moonless night, IC-434 and the dark nebula B-33 known as the Horsehead are tough objects to see. I found it visible from a dark site with my 10-inch and a H-beta filters, but without it I could barely see the nebula. Don't expect it to look like the photos, it will look more like an irregular bite take out of IC-434, but it should be apparent from a dark site with the use of the filter. Good luck! While you are at it, if you have a small, low power telescope try for the California Nebula too. From the same dark and remote site where I spotted the Horsehead, the California Nebula was quickly found. An H-beta filter also works on a number of other nebulae.
Taras
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15-inch F/4.5 Dob under construction
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
A whole bunch of eyepieces, filters and other accessories....
Two curious cats
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 10519
Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
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Quote:
I can see it easily with my 12" using a H-beta filter under my mag 5.0 skies. I live in the outer suburbs so light pollution is not too bad. It's faint, but not particularly hard to detect.
Living in Australia does give you a distinct advantage when it comes to seeing B33. I've never been able to successfully observe it from anywhere other than a mag 6 plus site from the USA.
Dave Mitsky
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8290
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
Quote:
I can see it easily with my 12" using a H-beta filter under my mag 5.0 skies. I live in the outer suburbs so light pollution is not too bad. It's faint, but not particularly hard to detect.
Living in Australia does give you a distinct advantage when it comes to seeing B33. I've never been able to successfully observe it from anywhere other than a mag 6 plus site from the USA.
Dave Mitsky
I have managed it (barely) from my home site (ZLM 5.6) using my 9.25 inch SCT and the H-Beta filter (57x). It wasn't much, but it was there. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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Javier
sage
Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 434
Loc: New Jersey
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Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll make the investment an H-Beta filter and see where things land. So what's the favorite among the more experinced observers Lumicon H-Beta or Baader H-beta filters?
Javier
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8290
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll make the investment an H-Beta filter and see where things land. So what's the favorite among the more experinced observers Lumicon H-Beta or Baader H-beta filters?
Javier
I like the Lumicon, as it has a bit higher peak transmission than the Baader. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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7331Peg
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 734
Loc: North coast of Oregon
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I've got the Lumicon, but since I have yet to see the Horsehead with it, I can't really comment on it.
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the chances of seeing the silhouette of the Horsehead are about as likely as winning the lotto in the Amazon jungle. I was out at 4AM a couple of nights ago when the transparency was very good. Orion was absolutely stunning. With a six inch achro, I could clearly see the Flame Nebula. I moved down to the Horsehead area and I could also clearly see the background nebulosity with no filter - but no Horsehead. I kept at it for about an hour, with and without the filter, with a 20mm Nagler and a 13mm Ethos, and I got several good views of the notch. I may have had a momentary glimpse of the silhouette, but it was so fleeting that I couldn't be sure it was more imaginary than real.
I'll definitely try again, but the sky that morning was so transparent that it will be a long while before it's that good again.
John
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8290
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
I've got the Lumicon, but since I have yet to see the Horsehead with it, I can't really comment on it.
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the chances of seeing the silhouette of the Horsehead are about as likely as winning the lotto in the Amazon jungle. I was out at 4AM a couple of nights ago when the transparency was very good. Orion was absolutely stunning. With a six inch achro, I could clearly see the Flame Nebula. I moved down to the Horsehead area and I could also clearly see the background nebulosity with no filter - but no Horsehead. I kept at it for about an hour, with and without the filter, with a 20mm Nagler and a 13mm Ethos, and I got several good views of the notch. I may have had a momentary glimpse of the silhouette, but it was so fleeting that I couldn't be sure it was more imaginary than real.
I'll definitely try again, but the sky that morning was so transparent that it will be a long while before it's that good again.
John
If you have seen the notch at all, then you have essentially seen the Horsehead. However, in a six inch, you may not see much of the "snout" unless conditions are exceptional. If you were using significantly more than about 50x, you may have been using a little too much power for that aperture, as the best exit pupil for the Horsehead tends to be from 3mm to 5mm in size. Keep trying and clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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HellsKitchen
sage
Reged: 09/05/08
Posts: 356
Loc: Melbourne Australia
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i agree, if you've seen only a dark indentation, that constitutes as a positive hit. I havent seen the snout with my scope.
What aperture would one require to see the snout (assuming a H-beta filter is used)?
I got a beautiful view of the actual horsehead shape from a dark sky site in a filtered 18" Obsession.
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S 38º 00' E 145º20'
Custom 12" F/4.6 dob
10" GSO dob
Intes M500 Mak
4.5" Meade Newtonian
Set of Vixen LVWs + TV barlows + powermates
Astronomik 0III, UHC, H-beta filters
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8290
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
i agree, if you've seen only a dark indentation, that constitutes as a positive hit. I havent seen the snout with my scope.
What aperture would one require to see the snout (assuming a H-beta filter is used)?
I got a beautiful view of the actual horsehead shape from a dark sky site in a filtered 18" Obsession.
I have gotten to see the "snout" in my 9.25 inch SCT (marginally), and one might even see it in an 8 inch. The larger the scope, the better the view, but the Horsehead, while difficult, isn't exactly the near-impossible "challenge" that it was considered 20 to 30 years ago. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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7331Peg
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 734
Loc: North coast of Oregon
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Thanks for the info on the exit pupil, Dave. I'll give it another try with a little less magnification. Glad to know the notch qualifies as I've seen it several times. Looks like I'll have to move up to something a bit larger to capture the silhouette.
That entire area of Orion, from the Flame Nebula down to just below M42, consists of such a wealth of objects - double and triples stars, stars surrounded by nebulosity, the faint background nebula in the IC434 complex, the bright nebulae, and the sheer beauty of M42 and the Trapezium - that I can literally spend hours and hours there and never get tired of it.
John
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Alvin Huey
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 1831
Loc: NorCal
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John,
I've observed the Horsehead (notch) with the 6" achro that you have. I used a 8mm Ethos with H-beta filter. NELM that night was about 6.5. Two other observers confirmed it. We were surprised that a 6" scope could do it.
Alvin
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Clear Skies,
Alvin #26
22" f/4.0 reflector and 30" f/4.3 StarMaster
FaintFuzzies | TAC | TAC-Sac
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