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toastmaster425
member
Reged: 09/22/09
Posts: 63
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Well, since its the last night before its supposed to get cloudy here, i figure ill try for some interesting ones tonight!
What luck have any of you had on the veil, catseye, or lagoon nebulas in small scopes like mine (8inch)
ive heard lagoon shouldnt be too bad, veil could be challenging, and catseye could be real tough too!
Lemme know how youve done!
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i'm new at this.
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nobody special
sage
Reged: 12/30/08
Posts: 405
Loc: Connecticut
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Post deleted by nobody special
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Tom
Orion XT8 Classic
Hyperion 13mm (With 28mm Tuning Ring)
Orion Sirius 25mm
Meade Series 4000 Plossls 32mm 6.4mm
Orion Shorty Plus 2x Barlow
Telrad
OPT OIII Filter
ND Moon Filter
80a Blue Filter
Smart Seat III
Edited by nobody special (10/21/09 06:28 PM)
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tatarjj
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 1134
Loc: Austin, TX
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Veil is really easy if you have dark skies. It's pretty easy to see if you have moderately light polluted skies and a filter. It's very tough with no filter under light pollution. We can't really comment on how it will look through your scope without knowing your filters and light pollution situation.
Lagoon and Cat's eye are both really easy to SEE, but you may have trouble finding the Cat's eye. At low power it will look like a slightly bloated green or blue star. If you can star hop, and have like a 50mm finder, the Cat's eye should be visible in your finder as a "star", unless your LP is real bad.
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John T.
Austin, TX
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos
Edited by tatarjj (10/21/09 07:11 PM)
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toastmaster425
member
Reged: 09/22/09
Posts: 63
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im in an orange to yellow transition zone. no filters yet :\.
its cloudy right now so im gonna try in a bit agian, and yes, ive hit ring and it looked nice. havent tried dumbell eyt.
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i'm new at this.
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nobody special
sage
Reged: 12/30/08
Posts: 405
Loc: Connecticut
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Sorry Toast, I must have mixed you up with another poster from a Red zone. Your skies are darker than mine so disregard my post.
I would make the attempt for the Dumbell though.
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Tom
Orion XT8 Classic
Hyperion 13mm (With 28mm Tuning Ring)
Orion Sirius 25mm
Meade Series 4000 Plossls 32mm 6.4mm
Orion Shorty Plus 2x Barlow
Telrad
OPT OIII Filter
ND Moon Filter
80a Blue Filter
Smart Seat III
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toastmaster425
member
Reged: 09/22/09
Posts: 63
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haha its all good! come on clouds...we dont like you!
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i'm new at this.
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Well, since its the last night before its supposed to get cloudy here, i figure ill try for some interesting ones tonight!
What luck have any of you had on the veil, catseye, or lagoon nebulas in small scopes like mine (8inch)
Eight inches is small? You've got to be kidding! Not very long ago at all, most amateurs could only dream of owning a scope that big.
All of those objects are readily visible in my 70-mm refractor under reasonably dark skies, and the Veil and Lagoon are quite glamorous.
In heavy light pollution, the Veil will be difficult or impossible, especially if you don't use a filter. The nebulosity in M8 (the Lagoon) may or may not show depending how high it is above the horizon, but the embedded cluster will be quite spectacular regardless. And the Cat's Eye is so intense that it's barely affected by light pollution.
You will have to catch the Lagoon very early -- it's well past its prime now.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 5025
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
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I've seen all of them in 6 and 4 1/4-inch telescopes, and seen them quite well from so-so sites with nebula filters. If you're looking in the right place, all of them should be fairly easy to see right away. You'll see structure in the Lagoon Nebula and why NGC-6543 resembles a cat's eye looking back at you. However, this nebula is very small as well as very bright, which means you can use 300X on it when skies are steady. At low power, it looks like a bluish, bloated star so don't be afraid to use high magnifications on this one. The best views I ever had of this nebula was through my 10-inch Dob at 375X when the seeing was very steady. The central star was apparent and I could see hints of the complex and whorled structure this object displays in photos. The Veil nebula is a bit tougher, there's three main sections and you will need a nebula filter if you have light polluted skies. A good narrow band or Oxygen III filter will work wonders, with the narrow band being more helpful on a broader range of nebulae. Also, don't bother if the sky's lit up by the moon or hazy. From sites where the sky is clear and dark, the Veil Nebula is easy to see even in 50mm binoculars. Through an 8-inch, it will start showing brighter patches and streaks amid a dimmer background of glowing gases. Cygnus is rich in other nebular object such as the Crescent and North American nebulas and planetary nebulae such as NGC-7048, NGC-6826, NGC-7026, and NGC-7027. All are well in range of an 8-inch even from pretty light polluted areas just outside of major cities. Get a good star atlas and a Telrad, which will work well together with a optical finder scope. With a little practice, you'll be star hopping your way to these objects and marvel at them with your telescope. Go for the Ring and Dumbbell nebulae too, they're bright and will be visible even from built up areas. The key to seeing elusive details in these objects is time at the telescope, getting and keeping dark adaption and blocking glare from nearby roads, streetlights and other sources of light pollution.
Taras
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15-inch F/4.5 Dob under construction
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
A whole bunch of eyepieces, filters and other accessories....
Two curious cats
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arpruss
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: Waco, TX
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Quote:
im in an orange to yellow transition zone. no filters yet :\.
its cloudy right now so im gonna try in a bit agian, and yes, ive hit ring and it looked nice. havent tried dumbell eyt.
I've done Dumbbell and Lagoon with an 8" a number of times in the red zone without any difficulty and without any filter. I think I've done Catseye with the 8", too, but in any case it shouldn't present any difficulty.
Veil is a different matter. Without a filter, I could just barely see it in my 13" in yellow skies, and that only when I knew exactly where to look and what to look for. With an OIII filter it was visible in my 68mm finder and gorgeous in the 13". You just might see it in the 8" in your skies without a filter, but I suspect you won't, and even if you do, it won't be much of a sight. I recommend either darker skies or a filter, or (best!) both.
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Coulter Odyssey 13.1" split-tube
Coulter Odyssey 8"
Home-made 7.8" F/4 dobsonian travel scope
Home-made 68mm F/5.3 achro (typically used as finder on 13.1")
Skymaster 15x70
BPTs4 8x30
32mm Plossl, 30mm Rini, 27mm Kellner, 13mm Hyperion, 6mm TMB/BO Planetary, Owl 2X Barlow
Palm TX with AstroInfo and RescoViewer
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Jim Curry
sage
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 432
Loc: Maine
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I use the Veil as a test for transparency. If I can pick up the western half without a filter it's a good night to go deep. If I can see Pickerings wedge - do not disturb!
Jim
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Vixen 140 refractor
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blb
sage
Reged: 11/25/05
Posts: 214
Loc: Piedmont NC
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Quote:
In heavy light pollution, the Veil will be difficult or impossible, especially if you don't use a filter. The nebulosity in M8 (the Lagoon) may or may not show depending how high it is above the horizon, but the embedded cluster will be quite spectacular regardless. And the Cat's Eye is so intense that it's barely affected by light pollution.
I live in a white zone on the light pollution map and the Cat's Eye is easy, the cluster in M8 with a good bit of nebulosity is fairly easy but I have never seen the Veil from home in town, only from much darker skies.
Clear skies, Buddy
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C-11, C-6, XT10i Dob, ETX125PE, TV102, & AT66
Edited by blb (10/23/09 12:37 PM)
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Lane
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/19/07
Posts: 1514
Loc: Frisco, Texas
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At our dark site I can see the veil in my 70mm Pronto without a filter, but with the DGM NPB it really looks beautiful. Our site is in a blue zone now instead of the nice grey zone it was 5 years ago, so I need to view it higher in the sky. When it is nearer the horizon the Pronto has difficulty seeing this object. So I think dark skies mean more for this paricular object than the scope you use.
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Mounts: CGEM, ORION SIRIUS, AT Voyager/motorized
SCTs: C6, C8, C9.25, C11,
Refractors: TV Pronto, Orion ED80
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nyc_nurse
sage
Reged: 07/29/09
Posts: 254
Loc: nyc
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Hey Toast. I've easily seen all 3 with my TV-102 at a mag ~6.2 site. With 8-inches in a orange/yellow zone you should be able to get it without too much trouble. Those LP maps can be misleading though. Localized light pollution doesn't show up in them and having it in the part of the sky that you're looking at can make a big difference. In an orange zone in Ct with limited local LP all 3 were easy in an 8-inch I had. Good luck!
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Sam P.
www.agirlandaguy.blogspot.com
Pentax 7X50
TV-102 APO w/ (Starbeam - on backorder  )
Ash Gibraltar w/ SkyTour DSC
NZ3-6, N9T6, N13T6
TV 20 Plossl
Pan 24, 35
Pentax XW10, XW14
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 10499
Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
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Quote:
Eight inches is small? You've got to be kidding! Not very long ago at all, most amateurs could only dream of owning a scope that big.
That was true in the 1960s and 1970s but relatively inexpensive 8-inch Dobs have been available for over 20 years now. Since there are a number of amateurs that own telescopes of 30 inches or more in size, I have to consider an 8-inch aperture to be small by today's standards.
http://www.silverbugstudio.com/kirk/coulter/history.html (8-inch Coulter)
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/lowrie1.jpg (48-inch OMI)
Dave Mitsky
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Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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starrancher
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 613
Loc: Northern Arizona
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When it's all said & done though , the 8 inch is probably the best compromise of portability & aperture .
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LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff
Fort Rock , Az .
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8280
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
Quote:
Eight inches is small? You've got to be kidding! Not very long ago at all, most amateurs could only dream of owning a scope that big.
That was true in the 1960s and 1970s but relatively inexpensive 8-inch Dobs have been available for over 20 years now. Since there are a number of amateurs that own telescopes of 30 inches or more in size, I have to consider an 8-inch aperture to be small by today's standards.
http://www.silverbugstudio.com/kirk/coulter/history.html (8-inch Coulter)
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/lowrie1.jpg (48-inch OMI)
Dave Mitsky
Well, Dave, you might possibly be somewhat in the minority, at least in some amateur circles. Generally, I consider any telescope smaller than five inches to be "small", as do many of my fellow amateurs (at least in this area). Traditionally, the three to four inch aperture range has tended to be the place where the "small" label has been assigned, although that has varied somewhat. I consider 6 to 9.5 inches of aperture to be "moderate", 10 to 16 inches to be "large", and anything larger than 16 inches to be "very large". Indeed, the sight of a six inch f/12 D&G refractor on a GEM can be rather imposing, and most folks wouldn't dare call it "small" (at least to the owner's face  ). Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 10499
Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
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David,
Traditionally is the key word. Times have changed. Why modify large and not the other two categories?
Small - up to 10 inches
Medium - 10 to 20 inches
Large - above 20 inches
Dave Mitsky
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Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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JakeSaloranta
sage
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 234
Loc: Sisu, Sauna, Sibelius...
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Quote:
Small - up to 10 inches
Medium - 10 to 20 inches
Large - above 20 inches
Ouch, after that there's not a single large telescope in Finland and in amateur use that I know of
/Jake
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Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1237
Loc: Estonia
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That pretty much eliminates all the scopes in Estonia as well to mediums and smalls.
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BillFerris
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/17/04
Posts: 2910
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Quote:
David,
Traditionally is the key word. Times have changed. Why modify large and not the other two categories?
Small - up to 10 inches
Medium - 10 to 20 inches
Large - above 20 inches
Dave Mitsky
I prefer a scale determined by the aperture increase required to deliver a full magnitude gain in limiting magnitude. In other words, a scale where an increase of 60% in aperture establishes the cutoff between one category and another.
Sample Apertures
Small: 5 inch
Medium: 8 inch
Large: 12.5 inch
I agree with those who believe the scale should be revised to reflect current trends in the hobby. That said, any revised scale should acknowledge that traditionally small apertures are still in wide use. This isn't like the NFL where you just don't see 200 lb. offensive linemen, anymore. The 60 mm refractor is still ubiquitous, and 6 inch and smaller Newtonians are still very popular.
Within that context, I've revised the scale to add new large aperture categories.
Very Large: 20 inch
Extremely Large: 32 inch
Taken together with the traditional categories, this scale probably accounts for 99.99% (or more) of all amateur telescopes. Good 'nuff for gov'ment work.
Bill in Flag
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Grand Canyon Adventure
Lowering the Threshold
18" Obsession
4.5" Meade 4500
10x50 Swift Audubon
Cosmic Voyage
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