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Observing >> Deep Sky Observing

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azure1961p
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5021991 - 01/17/12 12:30 AM

Quote:

Quote:

EJN-- I made a rather naive attempt at Campbell's Hydrogen Star with an 8" in a red zone about ten years ago. Needless to say, I didn't catch it.




??? Cambell's Hydrogen Star is *very* bright, around mag 9, and so is the associated planetary nebula. The trouble is that it's very small, around 7", if I recall correctly, and thus needs good seeing and high power to be resolved from the glare of the star. I saw it last summer with a C8 running at >800x in superb seeing. It was quite easy to see as a round fuzz with a very bright central star. From my latitude of 55N it never gets dark in summer, so I had a NELM of around 4 or brighter when observing it.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark




It IS a nice tho difficult due to size object in an 8". My toughest planetarty znd most obscure was 5" in diameter and named Vy 1-2. Needs a better night, merely starlike. Apparently a mini mini M57 type thing.


Pete


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David Knisely
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5022035 - 01/17/12 01:23 AM

Quote:

Well, you're definitely going to need a very good map. CHS is just a star among thousands at low power. Completely impossible to tell apart from any of the others.

Once you've positively identified the star, run the power up. WAY up. At least 400x and possibly much higher. This thing is tiny. Think "Mars several months from opposition" small. Fortunately, it's quite bright, so it can take the magnification. The only problem is the very bright central star, which will completely mask the nebula, if the seeing is bad. CHS will need just the right conditions to be seen well (mainly very fine seeing), but then it's certainly well visible in an 8". I didn't use a filter and it's not needed at high power, but perhaps the nebula can be identified at low power, using a filter and the blinking technique. I haven't tried it.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark




Actually, Campbell's Hydrogen star may not be all that difficult to tell from the other stars in the field for a rather "colorful" reason. This is especially true for apertures larger than eight inches, as it often shows its fairly distinctive faint reddish-orange coloration. Indeed, in my 14 inch, the reddish hue is fairly distinctive. It also "blinks" a little with the H-Beta filter, although not to the same extent that other true OIII planetaries blink in the OIII filter. Since my H-Beta also has a booming red secondary passband, the object *really* looks red in that filter as well as in the DGM Optics NPB filter which also has a red passband. Under good seeing conditions, a diffuse disk is often seen that is somewhere around seven to ten arc seconds in size. Clear skies to you.


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Astrojensen
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5022143 - 01/17/12 04:43 AM

Quote:

Actually, Campbell's Hydrogen star may not be all that difficult to tell from the other stars in the field for a rather "colorful" reason. This is especially true for apertures larger than eight inches, as it often shows its fairly distinctive faint reddish-orange coloration.




I've heard of this, and I looked for it, but I couldn't see any color in the C8. And I don't own a H-Beta filter either. But nonetheless, it's a nice little object for a steady night.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Sirius76
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: sgottlieb]
      #5022443 - 01/17/12 10:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

For me, hands down, it would have to be Hannys Voorwerp. And having been the second confirmed visual observer of Hannys made it that much sweeter!




I'm a few notches down that exclusive list of observers of Hanny's Voorwerp, but I certainly know the scope we're talking about...




Hi Steve,

You know, up until this past year I've been going down there a couple times a year. And since you've started going down, it's been aggravating to me that I haven't been able to coincide a trip with one of yours. (This past October I had to cancel last minute )

Sooner or later it'll happen!! I truly look forward to sharing some views with you Steve!

It would be an honor!


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Alvin Huey
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: Sirius76]
      #5023186 - 01/17/12 04:19 PM

I've observed all kinds of obscure objects. Take a look at this page. http://faintfuzzies.com/ObservingReports.html

A recent example is Ethos 1, observed several times in 2011 with the 48" reflector then with my 22" reflector.

I'm also a few notches down from Dragan on Hanny's, saw it a couple months after he did back in Feb 2009, while I viewed it in April 2009. That reminds me that I'm still way behind in backtracking in my Observing Reports, including my trip to Texas in April 2009. I'm going there again in April for 8 nights.

PS: I don't go on CN as much recently as I don't have as much free time other than running out to observe.


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GlennLeDrew
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #5023254 - 01/17/12 04:59 PM

For those fortunate few who have access to truly big scopes, they enjoy a particular advantage regarding objects which are tiny and/or of low total brightness. No matter how skilled the observer or perfect the conditions, the smaller scope crowd are left completely out of contention.

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JakeSaloranta
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/18/08

Loc: Sisu Sauna Sibelius
Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5023270 - 01/17/12 05:09 PM

Don't know about obscure objects but some of the objects seen over the past 15 years at least have "funkier" or more uncommon names such as:

2MASX and IRAS galaxies
Andrews-Lindsay 3
ESO galaxies, globular clusters and open clusters
HFLLZOA C026
Tonantzintla 2

Also Palomars, Terzans and Hicksons are always a force to be reckoned with when using smaller apertures (<5 inches). Gotta love challenges!

/Jake


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azure1961p
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5024179 - 01/18/12 07:05 AM

Quote:

For those fortunate few who have access to truly big scopes, they enjoy a particular advantage regarding objects which are tiny and/or of low total brightness. No matter how skilled the observer or perfect the conditions, the smaller scope crowd are left completely out of contention.




Ok, thats it. I quit.

Pete


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BillFerris
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: BillFerris]
      #5024238 - 01/18/12 08:13 AM

Since this is the perfect time of year to observe McNeil's Nebula, I've uploaded a finder chart for this interesting object. Here's link: http://www.gcadventure.com/gcpics/misc_photos/mcneils_finder_chart.jpg

McNeil I is variable in brightness so, if it's not visible this year, save the chart for the next window of opportunity. McNeil I can be seen in relatively modest aperture when at its brightest.

Bill in Flag


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reiner
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5024536 - 01/18/12 11:36 AM

Quote:

For those fortunate few who have access to truly big scopes, they enjoy a particular advantage regarding objects which are tiny and/or of low total brightness. No matter how skilled the observer or perfect the conditions, the smaller scope crowd are left completely out of contention.




That's true for many of the objects mentioned up to now. I have one that is both obscure but still very accessible to small scopes:

It is the Eridanus bubble, the western counterpart of Barnard's Loop. Finder charts and a description (in German only) are here.

I observed it in my 22" Dob with H beta filter, where it was relatively easy. We then switched to 4" binoculars (as well equipped with H beta filters), where it still was visible, though a very difficult object. It was more difficult than the much more famous Barnard's loop. Conditions were not excellent during our observation, so it will be even easier if you have excellent skies. H beta filter appears to be a must, though.


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Alvin Huey
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5024549 - 01/18/12 11:43 AM

Quote:

For those fortunate few who have access to truly big scopes, they enjoy a particular advantage regarding objects which are tiny and/or of low total brightness. No matter how skilled the observer or perfect the conditions, the smaller scope crowd are left completely out of contention.




Glenn,

That is not entirely true. There are tons of good challenges for folks with small scopes.

For example, I observed Stephen's quintet with a 6" reflector back in about 1976 or 1977. I thought "wow, that was a good one and tough, etc..." Cosmic Challenge book by Phil Harrington is a good one to look through for challenges for all sized scopes, grouped by size. It may not be obscure.

In fact, there is this one new planetary currently discussed in AmAstro, [K98c] *Em4 in Draco.
Coordinates:
RA: 20h 23m 37.29s
Dec: +68 07' 13.7"

Someone report observing this with an 8" scope and mentioned it may be possible in a smaller scope.


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dgg99
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Reged: 11/07/04

Loc: Northern Spain
Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5024624 - 01/18/12 12:22 PM

Quote:


Actually, Campbell's Hydrogen star may not be all that difficult to tell from the other stars in the field for a rather "colorful" reason. This is especially true for apertures larger than eight inches, as it often shows its fairly distinctive faint reddish-orange coloration. Indeed, in my 14 inch, the reddish hue is fairly distinctive. It also "blinks" a little with the H-Beta filter, although not to the same extent that other true OIII planetaries blink in the OIII filter. Since my H-Beta also has a booming red secondary passband, the object *really* looks red in that filter as well as in the DGM Optics NPB filter which also has a red passband. Under good seeing conditions, a diffuse disk is often seen that is somewhere around seven to ten arc seconds in size. Clear skies to you.




I observed Campbell's star a few months ago with my 5-inch refractor and I noted an orangish color in it, mostly at low powers. I thought it to be very strange in a planetary. It responded very well to the UHC filter but remained completely stellar to me.

This is a very interesting thread. I think the most obscure objects I've seen are two of the protoplanetery nebulae in Cygnus, the Egg Nebula (PK 80-6.1) and Minkowski's Footprint (M1-92), both visible in the 5 inch.

Regards,


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GlennLeDrew
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: dgg99]
      #5025327 - 01/18/12 06:04 PM

Reiner,
I've wondered if the western side of the Erifanus Bubble could be seen. As you note, it's very much fainter than Barnard's Loop in both H-alpha and full color images. Thanks for the encouragement!

Alvin,
You missed the point of my 'complaint.' It's objects such as Hanny's Voorwerp, distant extragalactic globulars, Einstein's cross, etc., which the small scope gang have no hope of bagging. So the most obscure objects are perforce left to those few blessed to peer through optical leviathans.

But there are plenty of objects which are more easily detected in smaller instruments due to large size. In those cases a big scope can be at a disadvantage due to the object spilling well outside the extent of the field of view. A less magnified view that allows some surrounding sky to frame a dim fuzzy can make for easier edge detection.


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Alvin Huey
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5025348 - 01/18/12 06:17 PM

Quote:

Reiner,
I've wondered if the western side of the Erifanus Bubble could be seen. As you note, it's very much fainter than Barnard's Loop in both H-alpha and full color images. Thanks for the encouragement!

Alvin,
You missed the point of my 'complaint.' It's objects such as Hanny's Voorwerp, distant extragalactic globulars, Einstein's cross, etc., which the small scope gang have no hope of bagging. So the most obscure objects are perforce left to those few blessed to peer through optical leviathans.

But there are plenty of objects which are more easily detected in smaller instruments due to large size. In those cases a big scope can be at a disadvantage due to the object spilling well outside the extent of the field of view. A less magnified view that allows some surrounding sky to frame a dim fuzzy can male for easier edge detection.




Glenn,
I think you mis-read my post. I got your point...but I said "not entirely true". Anyhow I'm not going to quibble about this and small and large scope got its own set of challenges...so no whining here...

When I use my small scope (4 or 6"), I still go out and observe obscure stuff.


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GlennLeDrew
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #5026111 - 01/19/12 02:46 AM

Alvin,
Gotcha. As a small 'scope' aficionado, I often catch stuff in my home-made 60mm bino that users of 8-12" scopes fail to glimpse.


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blb
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5026470 - 01/19/12 10:22 AM

Hey guy's there are no obscure objects for my small to medium sized telescopes. There are difficult and seldom viewed objects but NOT OBSCURE. Those trully obscure objects are left to the realm of those really large telescopes.

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Astrojensen
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Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: blb]
      #5027128 - 01/19/12 04:26 PM

What is obscure anyway? What do we understand by the word? Merriam-Webster defines it as "not clearly seen or easily distinguished" or "not prominent or famous", among others. There are TONS of stuff within reach of even a very small scope that fulfill both criteria.

All deep-sky objects we amateur astronomers observe visually have either been discovered a very long time ago or discovered photographically and been catalogued by professionals prior to their first visual sighting.

I think deep-sky objects can be arranged like a logaritmic fashion, IE there are a few very well observed objects everybody knows and observes, and a progressively larger number of objects that fewer and fewer observers ever observe, the "long tail" of visual astronomy, so to speak.

As soon as you go beyond the 500 most well-observed NGC's, you're basically into "obscure" territory as far as most visual observers are concerned, I think. I can probably make a long list of objects that I've seen with my 63mm Zeiss that very few have ever seen, even with much larger scopes. Not because they are too faint, but because they're far from any bright stars and easy to find waypoints. In other words, they're obscure!

But they don't even need to be faint and far from any easy to find guideposts to be very seldom observed and very little known:

Honestly, how many can say that they have seen NGC 7013? Did you have to look that one up? Was it far from something bright? How about UGC 11465? No?


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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KidOrion
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Reged: 07/07/07

Loc: Carbondale, IL
Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5027153 - 01/19/12 04:43 PM

This is part of why I left the definition of "obscure" up to individual responders. For me, it's the objects that are likely the least-often observed; what it means to others, I can't say.

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Jacques
sage


Reged: 08/11/02

Loc: Belgium
Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5027174 - 01/19/12 05:00 PM

Actually, I grew fond of Ngc 7013 in Cygnus and 7603 in Lyra because both are bright enough for the ED100 to detect and both could be considered "off the beaten path" or "obscure" objects in the sense that they seem to live a rather "obscure" life among the summer milky way showpieces. 4" is a big scope in your perspective, I know but still...Ngc 7013 is indeed a very easy starhop like you point out and bright, yet not very popular.

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Jacques
sage


Reged: 08/11/02

Loc: Belgium
Re: Your Most Obscure Find...? [Re: Jacques]
      #5027176 - 01/19/12 05:03 PM

I meant Ngc 6703 ofcourse, sorry

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