Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Observing >> Deep Sky Observing

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
tnakazon
sage


Reged: 06/26/10

Loc: Los Angeles
Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80
      #5520231 - 11/14/12 10:05 PM Attachment (99 downloads)

Was able to pick up the Veil and North American Nebula with my Orion ST80 using a 32mm Plossl (12.5X magnification) and a Thousand Oaks OIII filter at an orange zone site (Malibu). For the Veil, I was able to get both ends and Pickering's Wisp in the same FOV. The OTA is mounted on a Vixen Mini-Porta alt-azimuth mount (only 6.5 lbs).

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
curiosidad
sage


Reged: 06/09/11

Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: tnakazon]
      #5520776 - 11/15/12 09:07 AM

Hello,
How interesting observations!
You could see the shape of the entire North America Nebula?
What field covers the 32mm eyepiece Ploss?
A greeting and congratulations ...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cliff mygatt
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 01/27/09

Loc: Kitsap County, WA
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: curiosidad]
      #5520801 - 11/15/12 09:33 AM

I did the same thing in my 120mm F5 a few years ago. The wider fields allow viewing the entire nebula and it is quite lovely.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5521060 - 11/15/12 11:48 AM

This configuration is much like one-half of a 12X80 binocular, although performing somewhat better, especially with the filter installed. But from a dark site and using this size bino, even without filtration all these objects--except perhaps Pickering's Wisp--can be seen well. By using both eyes, low contrast objects are made more definite.

And if the bino can have your desired filters installed, so much the better! My home made right angle bino in 20.8x60 mode, with Orion Ultrablock filters and the huge 4.7 degree field, have inspired others to exclaim that the presentation of larger nebulae is better than provided by most any cyclopean telescope.

My own observations of the Cygnus nebulae, also in the filtered 13X50 mode (7.7 degree FOV), have readily ferreted out the Pelican. several patches of the gamma Cygni complex, NGC 6888 and Sh2-101. Two-eyed viewing is potent.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
curiosidad
sage


Reged: 06/09/11

Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5521108 - 11/15/12 12:14 PM

Glenn,
In your opinion, then we could say that these two instruments are equivalent for these observations?
I mean, for observations of large nebulae, binoculars approx. 12X80 from areas with dark skies and short focal length refractor 80mm (ST80 for example) with narrowband filter from polluted area?
Best


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ensign
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/16/08

Loc: Southwestern Ontario
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: curiosidad]
      #5521133 - 11/15/12 12:24 PM

I had similar results using my Equinox 80 with a Pentax 40 XL EP and an Orion OIII filter. With a huge exit pupil (6.4mm) dimming caused by the filter is not an issue.

I imagine, as Glenn says above, that having such a scope (in this case 12.5 x 80) for each eye would produce amazing views.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dave MitskyModerator
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/08/02

Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: ensign]
      #5521231 - 11/15/12 01:27 PM

I've seen both nebulae many times through my filtered Orion ST80 and 101mm Tele Vue refractors from dark sites.

Dave Mitsky


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tnakazon
sage


Reged: 06/26/10

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: curiosidad]
      #5522045 - 11/15/12 10:26 PM

Quote:

Hello,
How interesting observations!
You could see the shape of the entire North America Nebula?
What field covers the 32mm eyepiece Ploss?
A greeting and congratulations ...



Couldn't get the entire North American Nebula in the FOV with the 32mm Plossl, only the Veil Nebula.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tnakazon
sage


Reged: 06/26/10

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: ensign]
      #5522056 - 11/15/12 10:30 PM

Quote:

I had similar results using my Equinox 80 with a Pentax 40 XL EP and an Orion OIII filter. With a huge exit pupil (6.4mm) dimming caused by the filter is not an issue.

I imagine, as Glenn says above, that having such a scope (in this case 12.5 x 80) for each eye would produce amazing views.



I also have a 40mm Orion Highlight Plossl that I haven't tried on my ST80 - perhaps then I'll be able to get the entire North American Nebula in the FOV.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tnakazon
sage


Reged: 06/26/10

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #5522196 - 11/16/12 01:33 AM Attachment (43 downloads)

Previously I was able to see the entire view of the Veil Nebula (Eastern section + Western section + Pickering's Wisp) using my Orion Starblast 4.5 & SkyScanner Newtonian scopes with the same filter and a 26mm Highlight Plossl (giving 17X & 15X respectively), also at semi-dark orange zone sites. Just wanted to see if the ST80 could do the same using a 32mm eyepiece.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tony Flanders
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: tnakazon]
      #5522252 - 11/16/12 04:47 AM

Quote:

Couldn't get the entire North American Nebula in the FOV with the 32mm Plossl, only the Veil Nebula.




The North America Nebula isn't very well defined. But I would say that it's somewhat smaller than the Veil.

It trails off on the north into a star cloud; that may be what's confusing you.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Carol L

*****

Reged: 07/05/04

Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: tnakazon]
      #5523460 - 11/16/12 09:00 PM Attachment (50 downloads)

Here's my 2009 observation of The Veil Nebula (with Pickering's Wedge ) using a 40mm Plossl and Lumicon O-III filter - seeing some wispiness in the eastern portion was a bit of a surprise.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Carol L

*****

Reged: 07/05/04

Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: tnakazon]
      #5523465 - 11/16/12 09:02 PM Attachment (38 downloads)

...and here's my 2009 observation of The North America Nebula using a 32mm Plossl and Lumicon O-III filter. Seeing these large nebulae in one fov sure is lovely, that's for sure - the way they were 'meant' to be seen, IMO.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rich (RLTYS)
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/04

Loc: New York (Long Island)
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: Carol L]
      #5523892 - 11/17/12 07:16 AM

I'm impressed, thanks for the views.

Rich (RLTYS)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5524052 - 11/17/12 10:10 AM

Very nice reports all. I have to keep at it with my 80mm, but tough to see in a red zone. I think I have seen parts of the Veil near the bright star.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Carol L

*****

Reged: 07/05/04

Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5524267 - 11/17/12 12:11 PM

Thanks Rich, and you're welcome.
I'm still kicking myself for waiting so long to get an 80ST - what a great little scope!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tnakazon
sage


Reged: 06/26/10

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: Carol L]
      #5524817 - 11/17/12 06:11 PM

Those are awesome drawings Carol, thanks! I'll have to try the Veil again, this time with my 40mm Plossl. Also need to see the North American again to see if I can get it in its entirety with my 32mm EP.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Carol L

*****

Reged: 07/05/04

Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: tnakazon]
      #5525838 - 11/18/12 10:47 AM

Thanks! The 32mm should work well.
Actually, the NA Nebula fit into my 26mm Plossl but the view looked a bit cramped.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dgg99
member


Reged: 11/07/04

Loc: Northern Spain
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: Carol L]
      #5525955 - 11/18/12 11:50 AM

This is a very interesting observation! I also have an 80mm short-tube –mine is a Vixen A80SS- and I love it for observing big nebulae. I live in a red zone (average NELM around 5.3), and North America nebula is not difficult with UHC and, best, O-III filter. In the best nights, its familiar shape is visible. In the veil, my view is also very similar to yours; Pickering’s wisp is visible using filters.

Here’s my sketch of the NA nebula, this time from a dark site with UHC filter.



Regards,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tnakazon
sage


Reged: 06/26/10

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: Carol L]
      #5526578 - 11/18/12 06:33 PM

Quote:

Thanks! The 32mm should work well.
Actually, the NA Nebula fit into my 26mm Plossl but the view looked a bit cramped.




Looking forward to viewing the Veil & NA again, but it probably won't be for another two weeks, as the waxing moon is ruining the views around Cygnus. The views won't be as good by then (they'll be lower in the sky).

With the 32mm, actually the Veil looked cramped - it should look better with the 40mm, similar to your view.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tnakazon
sage


Reged: 06/26/10

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: dgg99]
      #5526599 - 11/18/12 06:39 PM

Another great sketch - thanks Diego!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
curiosidad
sage


Reged: 06/09/11

Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: tnakazon]
      #5527636 - 11/19/12 10:28 AM

Carol ,Diego , fabulous sketch, demonstrating that a simple telescope and a nebular filter can do wonders in certain objects ..
Thanks


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Carol L

*****

Reged: 07/05/04

Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: dgg99]
      #5529387 - 11/20/12 05:00 AM

Great observational sketch, Diego - thanks for sharing it with us!
The 80mm widefield refractors certainly are wonderful for observing large nebulae.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Carol L

*****

Reged: 07/05/04

Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: curiosidad]
      #5529390 - 11/20/12 05:13 AM

Quote:

Carol ,Diego , fabulous sketch, demonstrating that a simple telescope and a nebular filter can do wonders in certain objects ..
Thanks




Thanks!
You're absolutely right - seeing these large nebulae in one fov is absolutely stunning.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
David Knisely
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/19/04

Loc: southeastern Nebraska
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: Carol L]
      #5530101 - 11/20/12 12:59 PM

I often use the example of putting my 2" OIII filter in the front dewcap of my 9x50 RACI finderscope to view both sides of the Veil at the same time for people who don't believe the OIII can be used in apertures under six inches. I do have an 80mm f/5 short tube and used it to see both objects, but anymore, it kind of gets left inside, as my 100mm f/6 seems to pass the threshold where detail in deep-sky objects becomes a lot easier to see, especially with filters. I prefer the views of the Veil and *especially* the North America Nebula in my 100mm f/6 refractor. In particular, the "Mexico" portion is quite a bit more prominent in the larger refractor than it is in my 80mm Short Tube. Clear skies to you.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dgg99
member


Reged: 11/07/04

Loc: Northern Spain
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5530303 - 11/20/12 02:25 PM

tnakazon, curiosidad and Carol, thanks for your comments!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Scotophobe Maryland, USA
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: tnakazon]
      #5534394 - 11/22/12 08:10 PM

Quote:

Was able to pick up the Veil and North American Nebula with my Orion ST80 using a 32mm Plossl (12.5X magnification) and a Thousand Oaks OIII filter at an orange zone site (Malibu). For the Veil, I was able to get both ends and Pickering's Wisp in the same FOV. The OTA is mounted on a Vixen Mini-Porta alt-azimuth mount (only 6.5 lbs).




Good job! The first time I saw the Veil and North America Nebula was also through an ST80 and an OIII filter. I saw all three main sections of the Veil in one FOV. Nice, isn't it?


Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
omahaastro
sage


Reged: 08/30/06

Loc: Omaha, NE
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5546377 - 11/29/12 10:31 PM

Fantastic sketches! If you like the ST80 (and I still love mine)... you'll really like the 120mm F/5's that are nearly as prevalent from Orion/Celestron... with it's 2" focuser. Fantastic wide field views... I stick the 31T5 in it!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Scotophobe Maryland, USA
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: omahaastro]
      #5547025 - 11/30/12 11:39 AM

I upgraded my ST80 with a 2" Crayford focuser. The widefield 2" eyepieces make a big difference in the view. But the beefier focuser and the large eyepieces add substantially to the weight.

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
curiosidad
sage


Reged: 06/09/11

Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5547439 - 11/30/12 03:55 PM

Hello Sarkikos,
What maximum field you get with eyepiece of 2" in the ST80/400?
Get to focus with 2 "diagonal + eyepiece of 2"?
Have a picture of the whole?
greetings


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Scotophobe Maryland, USA
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: curiosidad]
      #5547690 - 11/30/12 07:00 PM

The maximum true field of view I could attain in my ST80 with the eyepieces I have now is 6.8 degrees if I put my AT Titan-II ED 40mm, a 2" eyepiece, in the focuser. But that would give me an 8mm exit pupil. The next largest TFOV is 6.2 degrees through my ES 82 30mm, another 2" eyepiece, giving a 6mm exit pupil. These are used with a 2" diagonal.

I've never had a problem with eyepieces not coming to focus in my ST80. Remember, though, that I've upgraded the original focuser to a 2" Crayford.

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CollinofAlabama
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/24/03

Loc: Lubbock, Texas, USA
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: omahaastro]
      #5548901 - 12/01/12 02:32 PM

Don't know what the exit pupil of oomahastro's setup would be, but I'm certain I could not look, comfortably, thru an ST80 with a 32mm plossl. I'd have to go the ES 24 68*, Pan 24, old Meade 18mm UWA, or Sterling Plossl 25mm route for widest 1.25" field with only 400mm of focal length. I realize this is a personal preference kind of thing, but a 32mm Plossl thru an ST80 would cause GREAT discomfort, headaches, and general eye-mind coordination issues, rendering such a setup useless for me.

However, I agree that an ST80 can be an absolute JOY to use. In fact, for someone like myself for whom binoculars are not an option, an ST80 is a set of binoculars in overdrive! Wonderful wide vistas, very stable even on the flimsy EQ-1 mount, a mount unworthy to use with almost any telescope, but sufficient for the uber-light weight ST80. Very stable and providing breathtaking, sweeping gasps of the heavens. In a pinch, can do wonders even on Jupiter if nothing better is handy. I've since stepped up to 80mm and 102mm ED scopes, significant investments (especially the latter!) that I only justified after being serious about visual amateur astronomy for a decade.

I agree with David that going up to 100mm is very rewarding, but there is also a fairly significant loss of portability. That EQ-1, e.g., demostrates its incapacity with 100mm+ optics (90mm, really, but 100+ for sure). So you've got a beefier mount and heavier tube to deal with. Of course everything is relative, and the 100-class optics are a real joy to use compared to 120mm+ refractors -- excepting the ST120. That one is no more work than a 100mm ED for sure, but it's the only one. All other 120mm+ refractors make the 100mm class look downright portable and an order of magnitude easier to manipulate. I agree with David this is a better place to be, overall, but we must walk before we run, and the ST80 is a wonderful way to get a good visual understanding of the sky, with its easy to find things wide field of view, it's hard to beat, and about as easy as it gets, portable telescope wise. If you don't want to bother or don't have room to pack the 100mm class scope, the ST80 can provide hours of enjoyment and easy celestial education, not to mention just plain ole fun.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Scotophobe Maryland, USA
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: CollinofAlabama]
      #5549335 - 12/01/12 08:02 PM Attachment (19 downloads)

IME, these small, short-tube, rich-field refractors are best used on alt-az mounts. Tracking is not needed for low-power views unless AP is involved. Why complicate things with a GEM? A GEM also adds to the overall weight with a counterweight. I have an EQ-1 (CG3), but I don't use it and I ought to sell it. It's up in my attic.

But, nevertheless, I did have the ST80 mounted on an EQ-1 (CG3) for awhile. Notice the upgraded wooden-legs for stability.

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CollinofAlabama
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/24/03

Loc: Lubbock, Texas, USA
Re: Veil & North American Nebula with an ST80 new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5549738 - 12/02/12 02:10 AM

Mike, I agree, and like the OP, my own AstroTech 80 ED scope rides a Vixen Portamount. But this mount costs more than the ST80 OTA, and Orion sells and has sold the ST80 with an EQ-1 since Moses was young. A lot of folks will have this combo, thus my statement. I agree a rich field refractor is an odd scope to bother with a GEM (tho Orion does the same thing with the 120ST). And the EQ-1 is about the worst excuse of an equatorial mount one will find. Still, the ST80 rides it fine, svelt little fellow he is.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)


Extra information
2 registered and 6 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Dave Mitsky, Phillip Creed, okieav8r 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 2635

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics