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Observing >> Deep Sky Observing

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jacobmarchio
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Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars
      #5534356 - 11/22/12 07:30 PM

Hi all,
I was out observing last night. It was simply beautiful; seeing was excellent and could sport high magnification. Most of my observing time was spent on the moon. As the moon was still up, I knew I wouldn't get much detail in M42, so I decided I would try to get all 6 stars in the trapezium (I had failed before, due to seeing etc.). Four of the stars were easy, even at low magnification- but even when I push my magnification to 208x (and seeing still excellent) I only see the 4. Do I need even more magnification, or am I just expecting to much from my 6" F/5 Newtonian?


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starrancher
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5534358 - 11/22/12 07:35 PM

Light pollution and or moon glow can kill the faint guys .

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helpwanted
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: starrancher]
      #5534362 - 11/22/12 07:38 PM

I am going off the top of my head, but I think E & F are both around 12th magnitute, so light pollution can easily kill both.

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jacobmarchio
sage


Reged: 08/30/12

Loc: Alabama
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: helpwanted]
      #5534381 - 11/22/12 07:59 PM

Thanks for the response guys. I'm on the edge of a yellow/green zone, so not too much lp... the moon was up and shining brightly, so that may be it. I didn't think the moon would affect the Trapezium so much... oh well. Will have to try with no moon.

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JasonBurry
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5534943 - 11/23/12 07:22 AM

I observe from a green/blue zone with an 8" reflector. 200x is what I've used to bring out the E and F components, but they're quite easily overwhelmed by the glare of the A-D stars.

I last observed them early this week. Star E was fairly easy, but still took some moments of concentration to bring out. Star F showed only intermittently with the seeing that night.

I think transparancy and seeing are most important here. They are tiny points of light compared to A-D.

J


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Rich (RLTYS)
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5535110 - 11/23/12 09:32 AM

Seeing conditions can also have a major effect on seeing 6 stars. With my 10" refl sometimes it's easy other times I just can't do it.

Rich (RLTYS)


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BillFerris
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5535332 - 11/23/12 11:50 AM

The E and F stars (both 10th magnitude) should be visible in your 6 inch under dark skies with good seeing. Both are separated by about 4 arcseconds--well within the resolution limit of a 6 inch aperture--from their brighter neighbors. Often, the biggest challenge is digging the fainter stars from the glare of the brighter. F is about 100-times fainter than C. The difference in brightness between A and E isn't as great but is still enough to make detection of the fainter star a bit of work. Keep at it.

Bill in Flag


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Sarkikos
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: BillFerris]
      #5535463 - 11/23/12 01:01 PM

You just need to catch them on a moonless night with good seeing and good transparency at a dark site. Then it's easy.


Mike


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Sasa
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5535817 - 11/23/12 04:14 PM

Jacob, it reminds me when I was trying to observe more than 4 stars in Trapezium for the first time. At that time, I was using as well 150mm Newton (f/5). It took me about 20-30 minutes of trying different magnifications, eyepieces and barlow combinations before I noticed star E (for record, this was at 176x: Pentax XF8,5 + Barlow XCel ED 2x). Once I knew what should I be looking for, I saw it also in other eyepieces which I was trying that night: 4mm University ortho (188x) and then even in Pentax XF8.5 alone (88x).

With two years of more experience, I'm able to see occasionally star E in my 80mm refractor (AS80), if the conditions are good. With 100mm ED refractor, I could also glimpse from time to time star F as well.

So the moral is, keep trying. Once you crack them it will be much easier to notice them next time.


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Tony Flanders
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5535861 - 11/23/12 05:04 PM

Quote:

I was out observing last night. It was simply beautiful; seeing was excellent and could sport high magnification. Most of my observing time was spent on the moon. As the moon was still up, I knew I wouldn't get much detail in M42, so I decided I would try to get all 6 stars in the trapezium (I had failed before, due to seeing etc.). Four of the stars were easy, even at low magnification- but even when I push my magnification to 208x (and seeing still excellent) I only see the 4. Do I need even more magnification, or am I just expecting to much from my 6" F/5 Newtonian?




I'm a little surprised you couldn't see them -- especially E, which I find a lot more prominent than F.

I doubt the Moon had much to do with it. The stars are plenty bright for a 6-inch scope; the problem isn't the faintness of E and F but the brightness of A and C.

As others have said, they're a lot easier to see once you know what to look for.

Edited by Tony Flanders (11/23/12 08:48 PM)


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azure1961p
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5535925 - 11/23/12 05:37 PM

I've *played* with the trap and my 8" in 6/10 and 7/10 seeing under magnitude 5 sky's. The short of it is, if you can't see clean diffraction rings around the 4 trap stars the others are going to be tough to impossible even at 60x per inch. Generally garbage seeing leaves me with neither e nor f while mediocre brings both with patience and attention and good seeing had them held linger and far more often.

A trick. Here too isknowing WHERE to look. I gazejust *above* the trap +or south rather) by maybe 15 arc seconds and the fainter ones show peripherally. The fainter o e can be stubborn. In the 8" 200x is my favorite for this though even 140x can detect it. At 200x though nice diffraction patterns make an exquisite view.

Pete


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rtomw77
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5536636 - 11/24/12 04:25 AM

Another trick is to observe within a time period of several hours of when Orion is due South and at its highest point for the night. This is the only way I can see E and F through the Phoenix light dome.

Tom


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Daniel Mounsey
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5536824 - 11/24/12 08:53 AM

Seeing E and F is exactly the same as seeing the Tettigoniidae insect in this photo. Once you know where to look, you'll spot them.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/reid2008/3808964245/


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jacobmarchio
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Reged: 08/30/12

Loc: Alabama
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Daniel Mounsey]
      #5537364 - 11/24/12 03:09 PM

Thanks for the tips! Will try, but the moon is waxing full, so it might be a while before the moon and weather cooperate.

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Starman1
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5549000 - 12/01/12 03:45 PM

Here are some finder charts:
http://www.astropix.com/HTML/B_WINTER/TRAPEZ.HTM
and
http://www.laughton.com/paul/rfo/trap/trap.html
Note, I've seen these from my rooftop in LA with a 6" f/5, so perhaps seeing wasn't as good as you think. The F star, especially, requires that the brightest Trap star be a tiny little point. 200X is more than enough power to see them.


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simpleisbetter
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Starman1]
      #5549021 - 12/01/12 04:02 PM

I agree, seeing and cooldown are very important. Any thermals and you'll be chasing E & F. Here's another link showing info on the Trap.
http://cityastronomy.com/trapezium-lg.jpg

Curiously, I seem to almost always see F first, and more often than E; not sure why, but it happens in both my current C6R and my former 4" f/7.


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jacobmarchio
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Reged: 08/30/12

Loc: Alabama
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5549422 - 12/01/12 09:25 PM

Thanks for the star charts. I'm pretty sure the seeing was quite good, and my scope was fully cooled. It is possible I just didn't know where to look, or the high, bright moon washed them out. Will try when conditions are good.

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Erik Bakker
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5549814 - 12/02/12 04:59 AM

Jacob,

Most importantly, you need good seeing AND good transparency. Under those conditions, I saw all 6 in my 70mm fluorite at 140x. A bit more aperture and magnification help of course. But a fully cooled 6" and 208x is definitely enough. Just wait for better conditions.


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jacobmarchio
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Reged: 08/30/12

Loc: Alabama
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5551928 - 12/03/12 12:14 PM

Hi again,
I tried again last night, good seeing, cooled scope, moon up. Failure.

Again, the conditions were against me. The moon was up. I don't know if this helps, but the faintest star, the "B" star, was very dim, if that gives you any idea of the Moon's affect. Also, I forgot to take a print of one of the trapezium star charts, and couldn't exactly remember which stars they were by. And the different orientation of the Newt was throwing me off a bit


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kansas skies
sage


Reged: 12/02/12

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5555739 - 12/05/12 02:09 PM

I was able to spot the E and F components last night with a 4" refractor (f/10 achromat) at 100X. I usually can see E without too much difficulty, but I find that F requires very steady seeing conditions to separate it from C. Still, it will usually show itself as an elongation of C. Also, the F component seems to be much more difficult to isolate in my 8" SCT due to excessive glare from C - Bill.

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Bill Barlow
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5556321 - 12/05/12 08:02 PM

I could easily see both the E and F stars in my Meade 12 ACF between 150x-200x. This was when the Orion Nebula was only about 20 degrees above the horizon. I guess the higher resolution of the 12" scope helped me out a lot.

Bill


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MikeBOKC
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Bill Barlow]
      #5556427 - 12/05/12 09:09 PM

E and F are just about always there in my CPC1100, unless seeing is really doggy. Then, they tend to fade in and out. Under 10 inches I think you need fairly still air.

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drbyyz
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: MikeBOKC]
      #5562253 - 12/09/12 11:27 AM

Gave this a shot last night after reading this thread yesterday. Seeing was kinda iffy, but not too awful. My skies also aren't the greatest. Was able to make out E pretty easily, but it was definitely flickering in and out of my vision. No luck at all on F. Going to try again on a better night.

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REC
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: drbyyz]
      #5562471 - 12/09/12 01:36 PM

For me, that's a tough one for my 8" SCT. Generally feel lucky if I can just get E steady without blinking in and out. But when I do, I know I'm going to get a knock out view of the nebula! Definitely a seeing issue here.

Bob


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jacobmarchio
sage


Reged: 08/30/12

Loc: Alabama
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: REC]
      #5563042 - 12/09/12 07:44 PM

Yeah, my skies are pretty bad right now... mostly clouds ever since the beginning of December, and the forecast doesn't look too good either.

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bandhunter
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5574906 - 12/16/12 10:29 PM

Quote:

Seeing conditions can also have a major effect on seeing 6 stars. With my 10" refl sometimes it's easy other times I just can't do it.

Rich (RLTYS)




^
| This


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jrbarnett
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: helpwanted]
      #5576645 - 12/17/12 11:56 PM

Nah. E and F are much brighter than that (about Mag 10 each), and typically are easy under suburban skies with average seeing in a 4" refractor.

I find poor baffling/glare suppression to be the biggest culprit in not seeing all six in moderate aperture scopes. The other challenge is observer expectations. Warm up on Polaris then Rigel. Train your eye to pick out a little "diamond chip" star next to a much brighter companion. Use a finder chart so that you know exactly where to look. I bet they were there in the 6" f/5 if he knew exactly where to look.

http://www.astropix.com/HTML/B_WINTER/TRAPEZ.HTM

Regards,

Jim


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blb
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5577265 - 12/18/12 12:49 PM

Quote:

Nah. E and F are much brighter than that (about Mag 10 each), and typically are easy under suburban skies with average seeing in a 4" refractor.

I find poor baffling/glare suppression to be the biggest culprit in not seeing all six in moderate aperture scopes. The other challenge is observer expectations. Warm up on Polaris then Rigel. Train your eye to pick out a little "diamond chip" star next to a much brighter companion. Use a finder chart so that you know exactly where to look. I bet they were there in the 6" f/5 if he knew exactly where to look.

http://www.astropix.com/HTML/B_WINTER/TRAPEZ.HTM

Regards,

Jim




Vrey good advice Jim. If you can see the companion stars for Polaris and Rigel you should be able to see the E and F stars in the Trapezium, but you may need to use some averted vision to find them at first. Averted vision will place the stars in a more sensitive part of the eye, so they will be a little easier to see the first time. Also do a star test to be certain that your scope is well collimated. That may prevent you from seeing them too.


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Ain Soph Aur
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: blb]
      #5598779 - 12/31/12 09:31 PM

I've had E & F through my 4" f/13 Carton quite a few times from my backyard red/orange transition zone under good conditions this year, and not so much other times even when I thought conditions were excellent.

I have glimpsed E twice this fall in an excellent 60mm f/20 from a green zone, but neither from my backyard (yet) after quite a few times of trying. I usually only have the 60mm out at home for lunar viewing when the dark sky conditions aren't so good.


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bremms
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: blb]
      #5598875 - 12/31/12 10:56 PM

E and F are all about scattered light and seeing. Years ago, never had any trouble if the seeing was good from a green blue site with a very good 6 inch f8. Hard in a C8 due less contrast. Seeing is VERY important.

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Walter C
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: bremms]
      #5600462 - 01/01/13 10:27 PM

New to this forum, 40+ years into astronomy.

I use a 10" Newt with a mirror that needs a good re-coating real bad.

Several weeks ago I saw the "E" star with no problem using a 20mm Plossl. It was a cool clear night with no wind below or high. Our dark sky site isn't totally dark, but, dark enough. Stars were points even at higher powers. I looked at Jupiter with 240x plus and was please to see 3 or 4 bans and the red spot with ease.

I took a stab at "E" with the very high power, but, it just was too fuzzy. The lower power 20mm and then with a 16mm Koneg II made the stars appear to be periods.

My opinion, stable air conditions are more important than the dark sky (which is very important) when it comes to "E".


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planet earth
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5602348 - 01/03/13 04:34 AM

Sometimes in my light polluted area I will see E and F easily in a 6 f8 at X150, other times I can barely see E with a 12 f5 roughly same power.
Haven't really tried enough times with my 4.5 f8, but so far no luck.
Try try and try again.....
Sam


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jacobmarchio
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: planet earth]
      #5604689 - 01/04/13 12:30 PM

Ok, I've got a question: how far apart would the separation be at around 200x?

Haven't had good conditions for a while, patiently waiting... it seems like constant cloud.


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Starman1
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5604961 - 01/04/13 02:49 PM

Here is a map of the Trapezium and its associated stars:
Theta Orionis


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Lane
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Starman1]
      #5605172 - 01/04/13 04:38 PM

I have seen E and F with my TMB 92L several times now in a blue zone, but it does take a bit of patience to find them. F always seems to be harder though when the atmosphere is not cooperating. I have failed to find it on several occasions with that little scope.

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BillFerris
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5605571 - 01/04/13 08:58 PM

Quote:

Ok, I've got a question: how far apart would the separation be at around 200x?




E and F are separated by about 4 arcseconds, respectively, from stars A and C. At a magnification of 200X, the apparent separation would be (4x200) 800 arcseconds. This translates to (800/60) 13.3 arcminutes...not quite half the size of a full Moon to the naked eye.

Bill in Flag


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dpwoos
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5607597 - 01/06/13 12:10 AM

Quote:

Hi all,
I was out observing last night. It was simply beautiful; seeing was excellent and could sport high magnification. Most of my observing time was spent on the moon. As the moon was still up, I knew I wouldn't get much detail in M42, so I decided I would try to get all 6 stars in the trapezium (I had failed before, due to seeing etc.). Four of the stars were easy, even at low magnification- but even when I push my magnification to 208x (and seeing still excellent) I only see the 4. Do I need even more magnification, or am I just expecting to much from my 6" F/5 Newtonian?




This is a perfect example of the value of joining your local astro club and observing with other folks and other scopes. Both E and F are fairly easy to see in bigger scopes (10"-14"), and once you see them once then I bet you will be able to see them in your 6", assuming your optics are up-to-snuff and working correctly. In my 6" f/8 when the sky is cooperative they are both so obvious that it is a wonder that they aren't always so easy to see. And, when the sky isn't cooperative then E is much harder to see, and F is simply not there.


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kansas skies
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Reged: 12/02/12

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5609420 - 01/06/13 11:05 PM

I was experimenting a little with trying to separate these components a couple of nights ago. I was using a 4" f/15 refractor with a 17mm Celestron Silvertop Plossl (this seemed to be the best magnification for showing a nice pinpoint E component under the conditions at the time). The F component was lost most of the time in the glare of C. The seeing was a little rough, but the F component would occasionally show itself during moments of better seeing. I tried averted vision, but it didn't seem to work well here. I think this was because averted vision just emphasized the glare of the brighter component, and in my opinion, made things worse. For this reason, I think the best way to separate the components is to use a magnification that allows for E to be seen clearly and then just be patient.

Bill


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Atl
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5610205 - 01/07/13 01:03 PM

They are awfully small and at first you won't see them...but once you do they are quite obvious. It was a challenge at 100x on my 12.5" dob....but they are distinct and clear.

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CelestronDaddy
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Atl]
      #5616320 - 01/10/13 09:41 PM

Conditions in my area have not been good at all and we just finished 2 days of rain. Tonight however looked good on my clear sky chart so I set up early and went out around 6:45pm. Around 7:30 I tried the Trapezium and at about 137x to 150x I was able to see E without too much trouble. Couldn't pick up F though. It seems to be harder so I need to keep trying, g....

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azure1961p
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: CelestronDaddy]
      #5617203 - 01/11/13 12:37 PM

I've found 200x with my 8" is ideal. I can rsolve them at lower mags but the airy discs are well defined at 200x and so it looks text book. Averted vision is very important, look just a few arc seconds above the trap on the e f side of the trapezoid asterism and that's how I see them simultaneously. But as mentioned in poor seeing both can be utterly erased out of existence.

Pete


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CelestronDaddy
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5617519 - 01/11/13 04:09 PM

Quote:

I've found 200x with my 8" is ideal. I can rsolve them at lower mags but the airy discs are well defined at 200x and so it looks text book. Averted vision is very important, look just a few arc seconds above the trap on the e f side of the trapezoid asterism and that's how I see them simultaneously. But as mentioned in poor seeing both can be utterly erased out of existence.

Pete




Pete - I'll keep trying for F and maybe I'll catch it when conditions are better. I don't have a barlow right now so the best I can do with EP is around 150x. I think my next purchase will be a decent 2x barlow instead of a higher power EP. I tried using averted vision but just couldn't get F. Do you utilize a barlow of some sort or just higher power EP's? Maybe my 53 year old eyes aren't cooperating E faded out sometimes but for the most part I could readily pick it up... Tony


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drbyyz
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: CelestronDaddy]
      #5619758 - 01/12/13 08:16 PM

Finally "logged" F last night under decent conditions at 167x.

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CelestronDaddy
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: drbyyz]
      #5619805 - 01/12/13 09:00 PM

Way to go! Glad you got it, g...

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jacobmarchio
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: CelestronDaddy]
      #5681132 - 02/15/13 10:47 AM

Hi all,
Sorry for the long delay in posting, we've had some bad weather for a long time. Anyway, got them last night ! The moon was up, and I used my C9.25. The corrector had some dew, so I'm sure that didn't help. Used a magnification of 235x (25mm Plossl w/ 2.5x PowerMate). Pretty positive about both of them. They are a lot dimmer than I thought- but maybe the moon and a dewy corrector caused this. Went over to try it in my 6", but the secondary was literally dripping with dew, so I couldn't there. The sct corrector gradually got more dew through the night. I will say that having a tracking mount and a chair helps!


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Starman1
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5681186 - 02/15/13 11:14 AM

Quote:

Hi all,
Sorry for the long delay in posting, we've had some bad weather for a long time. Anyway, got them last night ! The moon was up, and I used my C9.25. The corrector had some dew, so I'm sure that didn't help. Used a magnification of 235x (25mm Plossl w/ 2.5x PowerMate). Pretty positive about both of them. They are a lot dimmer than I thought- but maybe the moon and a dewy corrector caused this. Went over to try it in my 6", but the secondary was literally dripping with dew, so I couldn't there. The sct corrector gradually got more dew through the night. I will say that having a tracking mount and a chair helps!



Though it won't prevent dew forever, a dew shield on the SCT will help.
Most are poorly designed. A good dew shield should be:
--insulating. Where it wraps around the scope it should insulate the cell of the corrector from cooling against a cold atmosphere
--be very non-reflective inside. Flocking is good.
--be at least 1.5X the aperture in length. Many commercial dewshields are too short.

Even here in southern California, an SCT without a dewshield starts dewing over in 20 minutes. With a dewshield, maybe by 3-4am.

It also helps to keep the corrector clean and free from dust.


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jacobmarchio
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Starman1]
      #5681468 - 02/15/13 01:16 PM

I do have a dew shield (it's an Astrozap shield), and it was on Believe it or not, it started dewing up while I was aligning the mount . I guess it takes more than a dew shield to even delay dew here.

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Starman1
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5681494 - 02/15/13 01:25 PM

Quote:

I do have a dew shield (it's an Astrozap shield), and it was on Believe it or not, it started dewing up while I was aligning the mount . I guess it takes more than a dew shield to even delay dew here.



Yeah, I grew up in Indiana, where the dew point was reached when the temperature fell 2 or 3 degrees. Out here the temperature has to fall 20 degrees or more to reach the dewpoint, indicating the lesser amount of atmospheric water vapor.

Sometimes it helps to keep the scope horizontal, if the dewpoint is already reached, for a half-hour after the heaviest dewing. The relative humidity often drops then.
But it sounds like you needed a heated dewshield, or at least I can foresee one in your future.


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la200o
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Starman1]
      #5681767 - 02/15/13 03:21 PM

I couldn't use my CPC without a heated dewshield here in Michigan.

Bill


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nevy
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: la200o]
      #5687231 - 02/18/13 04:08 PM

In my 12" dob the E star is easily seen , I could never see the F star until I installed a fan blowing on the back of the mirror , now it's there , if the fan isn't running I noticed it would be hidden by a bit of flairing from the main star , also I've seen for the first time , the pup ( companion to Sirius ) a few nights ago , the first time I tried the scope with the new fan running.

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CelestronDaddy
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: nevy]
      #5688961 - 02/19/13 01:58 PM

I was out the other night when conditions were good. I had let my 6SE acclomate for an hour and had intentions to try for Sirius B. I started, however, with the trapezium. I was able to pick up E and F at about 136X. F was fairly constant so I knew conditions were good. I next tried Rigel and was able to see B at 136X and 60X. I then tried for Sirius B. I thought I saw B but it was hard to tell for sure. The trapezium really looked nice though. It was the first time I could see F with the 6SE and I was pleased....

Edited by CelestronDaddy (02/19/13 03:31 PM)


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JIMZ7
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: CelestronDaddy]
      #5700593 - 02/25/13 09:21 PM

After years of refractors from 80mm to 105mm and only 4 stars in the Trapezium, I finally was able to see E & F thru my Discovery 10" f/5.6 Dob tonight. The full Moon(I think)was rising in the east thus the sky was slowly getting brighter. I still managed to use my Televue 10.5mm Plossl at 135x with E & F easily resolved. Its been a long 6 years since I last saw them.

Jim


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CelestronDaddy
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: JIMZ7]
      #5701368 - 02/26/13 10:39 AM

Jim - WTG!

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REC
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: JIMZ7]
      #5701483 - 02/26/13 11:42 AM

That's pretty good, I have problems just getting the E star in my 8"!

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cpsTN
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5702373 - 02/26/13 08:07 PM

Quote:

You just need to catch them on a moonless night with good seeing and good transparency at a dark site. Then it's easy. Mike




You mean buying a car is easy if someone else pays for it? Anyway, seeing here in Mid- TN is bad at best most of the time, or so it seems. I have been trying for the last several days - the days that aren't clouded over - to see more than 4 in the Trap. I am beginning to think someone moved my house to England while I slept!


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CelestronDaddy
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: cpsTN]
      #5702414 - 02/26/13 08:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You just need to catch them on a moonless night with good seeing and good transparency at a dark site. Then it's easy. Mike




You mean buying a car is easy if someone else pays for it? Anyway, seeing here in Mid- TN is bad at best most of the time, or so it seems. I have been trying for the last several days - the days that aren't clouded over - to see more than 4 in the Trap. I am beginning to think someone moved my house to England while I slept!






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JIMZ7
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: REC]
      #5703331 - 02/27/13 11:35 AM

I use to have a Meade 826C 8" F/6 reflector & I always saw E & F with Meade 10.5mm & 7mm RG Orthos working at 116x & 174x in magnitude 4 skies.

Jim


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Sarkikos
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5703350 - 02/27/13 11:42 AM

Recently I split the six Trap stars with my C6 SCT under decent seeing. With an XO 5.1mm in the focuser for 294x, I could see the E and F stars. E was visible nearly all the time. I could see F for over half the time. My Baader Classic Ortho 10mm at 150x still showed the E star fairly consistently, but F was only glimpsed now and then.

So it's not that difficult for a 6" telescope - even an SCT! - to split the Trap's E and F.

Mike


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stratocaster
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Reged: 10/27/11

Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5703566 - 02/27/13 01:54 PM

I think seeing E and F is much more related to seeing if you have decent optics. I've been able to see it with my 4" refractor on multiple occasions. Though I remember the first time I saw them in my 10" dob on a good night about a year ago. All six stars glowing like little diamonds. Very exciting.

Then there was that night when I tried to see the trapezium at a dark sky site with that same 10" scope. Couldn't see E or F to save my life.


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Sarkikos
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Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: stratocaster]
      #5703572 - 02/27/13 02:00 PM

Yes, at my dark site it's dependent on the seeing whether or not I'll see E and F with my 10" Dob.

Mike


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