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Observing >> Deep Sky Observing

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Tyranthrax
sage


Reged: 04/22/13

Loc: Tampa, FL
Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula
      #5959343 - 07/07/13 05:50 PM

So last night I had talked my wife into coming outside to look at the moonless sky with me and le tm eshow her some of hte things I've been oohing and awing over, as well as show her some of the contilations I've learned. I hooked my camera p and was able to show her what I do, its nice when we show a real interest in each other's hobbies. I had mentioned that some nights I see weird and cool things, like a lane go through the scope, or a metero or a satalite drift through. To meteors that leave abalazing trail. Or some of the weird things I see, Looks like a giant kite that fly's by pretty swift, but no sound, I think its a large barn owl on the prowl for a few feral cats, bunnies, mice or what ever else lives out here in the high desert, usually once I see that I make my dog go inside, she's not tiny, but she aint as big as a German Shepherd.

So, before I get too side tracked I turned to take a picture of antares, but on the way Facing south, I had the lagoon nebula out there. And while showing her the challenge of cloudy nebula this light, Ihave no idea what it is, started to show up She knows how to set the file to start and hit the right buttons to record, (had just shown her a few objects ago) So She said we should get this. I said heck yeah and we started rolling. Now as far as light goes, we had made smores on a fire and it was starting to die out. the fire had no affect on any other filming the entire night. If I were to move the scope in the direction of the upper corner the direction I would have had to move it would be up and to the left. I rule out northern lights because I am so far south, in northern Nevada, and this faces south. When the lights came back on, o rule out the fire I stood between myself and the scope and made sure my hat covered the side of the opening. I have nothing reflective in the yard, and the fire was about 100-110 degrees off the front of the scope. we both looked in the night sky and it was clear thought it might be a flash light or something but there was nothing, slight breeze to moderate at times, from our town, south of us is nothing but hilly desert for miles, nearest town is about a 45 min drive through the hills and its smaller than mine. Clear and cloudless sky. I didn't know who else to ask except you guys. Any idea what the heck this is? What did I get on the video I was a bit creeped out and dumbfounded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w4XePJ5uMs&feature=youtu.be

we started recording and it went away for another minute. It starts up again at about the 1:20ish mark. I only had to stop because the file was getting huge.


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: Tyranthrax]
      #5959497 - 07/07/13 07:42 PM

Can you include a single frame or two here, for us guys who have restricted data plans on our phones? (I don't view Youtube videos because of this.) Thanks!

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Tyranthrax
sage


Reged: 04/22/13

Loc: Tampa, FL
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5959501 - 07/07/13 07:45 PM Attachment (33 downloads)

yeah sure hang on

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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: Tyranthrax]
      #5959516 - 07/07/13 08:01 PM

This has all the hallmarks of scattered light from some light source not too far outside the field of view (to the left and a bit up.)

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Tyranthrax
sage


Reged: 04/22/13

Loc: Tampa, FL
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5959533 - 07/07/13 08:15 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

That's what I was thinking, but my wife and I both looked, there's nothing that was visable. the direction to the upper left is if you take the scope and move the star side up and to the left, which points south/south east, nearest town is 30 miles away, and its tiny one stop light type of thing. this lasted for about 2 min. . we live in the high dessert, which had me run though all the normal things, and I can't give a good explanation, visually, looking at the spot we were looking at there was nothing shining up into the sky, which was clear as a bell. Its odd because about a block south of us then its open desert, sage brush and rocks till the next town. this came from above the spot we were looking at and fluctuated as the video recorded. Not trying to come up wiht the oddest ideas, just the normal ones that would be easy to explain don't really work, and with the naked eye we couldn't see anything. when I pull my camera off to look the eye piece to line things up, the camera pics up the lap top light when its cranked up like it was, but the effect is similar to a frosted florescent light cover.

I went forward in the video, (I didn't record for the 3:50 its showing, just did lots of frames for good pictures. but you can see the light source gets brighter in the video. which in that direction of the light source, it would be above the scope and to the left.


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: Tyranthrax]
      #5959924 - 07/08/13 01:12 AM

I would have slewed the scope at least in RA, to note any change in aspect. A dim red light to the eye can to the camera be a lot more significant! (But one would expect a reddish color in its scattered light, unless it has significant near-IR output and the camera passes this, in which case a green color is common.)

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REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5960211 - 07/08/13 09:24 AM

Could it be an iridium flare from a satellite passing nearby?

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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: REC]
      #5960329 - 07/08/13 10:59 AM

Quote:

Could it be an iridium flare from a satellite passing nearby?




It lasted too long (a few minutes) for an Iridium flare. And while this was seen via the camera, nothing was apparent when looking about for the offending source. Therin lies the mystery.

I'm now really wondering if the fire isn't the culprit after all, in spite of it being more than 90 degrees from the scope's line of sight. Any chance for a light leak, perhaps?


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Tyranthrax
sage


Reged: 04/22/13

Loc: Tampa, FL
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5961334 - 07/08/13 10:28 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

I think over all recording time was a little over a min. the photo sensor was cranked to max. you can see when the scope tries to track that the light source doesn't move. it was definatly in the atmopshere, I do know a little flashlight washes the scope out completely. If it helps this is the camera. http://www.telescope.com/Astrophotography/Astrophotography-Cameras/Orion-Star...

I do know when I have the thing cranked like it does, it keeps the electronic shutter or what ever it is open for a few seconds. I I know I didn't record for over 3 min. it was no more than 90 something seconds or so. The fire was on a bit higher when I did this image which is if I slewed to the right of the scope.

Would a flair have happened twice? it faded out when we got it started to record.


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Tyranthrax
sage


Reged: 04/22/13

Loc: Tampa, FL
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: Tyranthrax]
      #5961337 - 07/08/13 10:28 PM

would the fire have been more yellow/red too?

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Tyranthrax
sage


Reged: 04/22/13

Loc: Tampa, FL
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: Tyranthrax]
      #5961345 - 07/08/13 10:32 PM

the orange back light on the hand held will wash out the camera too its that sensitive. . not trying to say it was something special, just the logical close stuff didn't make sense knowing how it didn't entirely wash out, it grew then subsided, but was bright enough to be caught on the video, but we couldn't see it with our eyes. the latter frame shows it grew pretty bright, but that was apex I think. how bright are those flairs? and do they happen more than once? I think over all time of it coming up and going away was about 5 min?

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Tyranthrax
sage


Reged: 04/22/13

Loc: Tampa, FL
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: Tyranthrax]
      #5961402 - 07/08/13 11:01 PM

as another note I stood in between my scope and the remnants of the fire and used my hat to shield the side to block it out, fire was my first though, but it remained

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blb
Post Laureate


Reged: 11/25/05

Loc: Piedmont NC
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: Tyranthrax]
      #5961881 - 07/09/13 09:31 AM

Quote:

as another note I stood in between my scope and the remnants of the fire and used my hat to shield the side to block it out, fire was my first though, but it remained



Perhaps a reflection of the fire off something else?


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Tyranthrax
sage


Reged: 04/22/13

Loc: Tampa, FL
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: blb]
      #5962529 - 07/09/13 04:47 PM

, I had pointed the scope at 24 com durring the night, while it was aiming directly over the fire, wich was not a bon fire, it was 3 small 2x4s in a grill. all it did was make it hard to se through the heat. The camera gain was maxed out, she was wide open. an iphone would wash out the entire cell. I stood between the scope and the fire, I shielded it to ensure it was not the flame. the laptop was turned away as well, to make sure it was not it either. we have little to no trees in northern nevada, so there is nothign hanging in the air. this was somethign not with in a 10-20 foot radius that we could see and if it was the flame. . .why was it blue? this only lasted about a min tops. withthe shutter wide open and delayed the 1 min of recording time (the manual states the gain maxed at X256 woudl put a 4 sec delay before it sends the gathered light for dim objects, at 72 seconds of recording time at about 18 seconds total time this happened. . as in 18 seconds all night. is that long enough for one of those flairs? and would a flair come up twice?

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Bernie Poskus
member
*****

Reged: 05/22/10

Loc: Broomfield, Colorado
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: Tyranthrax]
      #5968381 - 07/13/13 12:44 AM

I also think it is scattered light from a terrestial source. It amazes me how that can happen, and what it looks like. Indeed, that is one of the reasons why I almost always use the shroud on my dob, i.e., to ensure I don't have that happen.

In this case, the light is clearly radiating from somewhere off to the side, and it is way too bright to be extra-terrestial.


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: Bernie Poskus]
      #5968620 - 07/13/13 08:10 AM

I don't recall what scope was being used here... The type can have a bearing.

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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5969453 - 07/13/13 06:55 PM

1) It's outside the field
2) It's transitory and repetitive--it dies out and comes back several times. That rules out an iridium flash or a meteor.
3) It has the look of a planet or perhaps crescent moon outside the field of view. Saturn was nowhere close. July 6th, evening, the Moon was a tiny crescent west of the sun at sunrise, so it wasn't the Moon.
4) There isn't anything really bright in the sky for many degrees from M8, so it wasn't the glare of a star just outside the field.
5) some possibilities:
--sparks from the fire, drifting near the field of view and causing an out-of-field light source due to imperfect baffling and flocking in the scope
--airplanes going across the field whose light entered the bottom of the focuser from over the top of the opposite side of the tube. The planes could have been 90 degrees off angle and caused this.
--the light on a distant tower that blinks on and off. It could be at nearly any angle and cause the glare (see previous item)
--a flashlight
--a streetlight
--Antares entering the telescope from over the end of the tube opposit the focuser (if the focuser bottom faces that way, as in a Chinese-made dob).
This likely is not the culprit, since it would not have been intermittent, but constant.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6) Try repeating the experiment, only this time block any light from entering the focuser by holding up a shield opposite the focuser, over the end of the tube for a while. Or add a cardboard light shield to extend the tube forward a foot. If that eliminates the issue, you know what it is.
7) look into the tube and blacken any screws or things that appear non-black, like collimation screws or focuser screws, etc.
8) shine a flashlight perpendicular to the tube at the inside of the tube opposite the focuser. Or try the same thing directly into the focuser.
9) look for a beacon light anywhere in the sky, from 90 degrees left to 90 degrees right of the scope. Block any light from any beacon you see.
10) look for planes, especially if you're in a landing path for an airport.
Where I observe, the western sky has one plane a minute nearly all night.
11) look to see if there are any shiny surfaces in your camera attachments and flat blacken them if there are.

12) let us know what happens.


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Tyranthrax
sage


Reged: 04/22/13

Loc: Tampa, FL
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: Starman1]
      #5972841 - 07/15/13 06:22 PM

Would it be worth repeting? it stopped shortly after I stopped recording. If it was a flair or a plane it would have had to be far enough away that it flew near the opening but out of our visual range, ie out of us looking with just our eyes. There is no airport in that area at all, not even remotely I am not ruling out airplanes, coud have been a low prop plane.

Street light, we have 6 in the entire town.
flashlight, possible, but again we looked in that direction, didn't see anything. What ever it was was definatly not a celestial body.

My thought initially was that it was a low flying private plane miles away out of our visual range and the fact the sensativity was cranked up thoguth maybe we cuaght the side of it. Again I'm not hunting big foot here, just thought it might have been some odd ball luck thing like a plane

Again milessouth is desert, a few hill people live tehre but most of them are scattered. The lack of people, and habitation gives me my amazing skies. The only affect the fire had all night was any object we hunted above it created enough heat to mess with the images.

the reason I thought maybe it was a plane or a helicopter is about 2-300 miles away sw of our location in the pine mountains there is a forrest fire. It is possible that there was a helicopter or a plane flying say towards us and or away from us adn tmaybe I caught the light from the plane? I dunno a plane never looked liek that when I saw them fly though my scope before. It was just so bright.


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: Tyranthrax]
      #5974820 - 07/16/13 07:02 PM

Still waiting to learn the scope type...

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Tyranthrax
sage


Reged: 04/22/13

Loc: Tampa, FL
Re: Oddity in m8 lagoon nebula new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5975745 - 07/17/13 10:51 AM

Quote:

Still waiting to learn the scope type...



Celestron 6se


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