Bill Grass
Prince Regent
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 11652
Loc: Denham Springs, LA
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Just for the challenge of it, I tried to find the Crab Nebula last night with my 80mm scope under my light-polluted sky. I used the setting circles on my mount, and then I verified where I was pointed by using a chart. I saw exactly where the Crab should have been, so I concentrated on that spot. Using my 11mm Plossl at 54.5x, I cupped my hands around the eyepiece to block all light. I wiggled the scope around just a bit, and I think I caught a couple of fleeting glimpses of the Crab. I can't be sure, but it seems like I glimpsed an extremely faint blur that popped in & out of view with averted vision. I'd like to try this again under a really dark sky!
Looking for a 9th magnitude blur in my situation is tough! 
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I hate M1 
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Dennis
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/30/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: Westford, Mass
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That's impressive targeting Bill! Sounds to me like it was there.
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Dennis
Nexstar9¼GPS
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matt
Vendor (Scopemania)
Reged: 07/28/03
Posts: 10022
Loc: Chaville, France
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Problem with the crab is that it is quite featureless, but it looks like on many scopes (from 6" to 16") it cheats your imagination into seeing "filaments" at the edges, because the edges disappear very gradually against the background sky.
I guess it is visible in an 80mm. It definetely is visble with direct vision with a 5".
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Matt
CI700 mount with various scopes on top.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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It's hard enough in a 10". If you spotted it in an 80mm, and it sure sounds like you did, I tip my hat to your skills.
Dave
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Bill Grass
Prince Regent
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 11652
Loc: Denham Springs, LA
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Well, like I said, I can't be 100% sure that I saw it. It could have been my mind wanting to see it & knowing it was there. I guess I need that dark sky to find out if it's visible in my 80mm!
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matt
Vendor (Scopemania)
Reged: 07/28/03
Posts: 10022
Loc: Chaville, France
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C'm'on! I've seen it in a 5" in my mag 3-4 garden. Under a clear sky it's certainly visible.
Remember Charles Messier never used anything larger than 5".
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Matt
CI700 mount with various scopes on top.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Well, like I said, I can't be 100% sure that I saw it. It could have been my mind wanting to see it & knowing it was there.
Averted imagination...one of the main skills used by the amateur astronomer 
My guess is that if you knew where it was, and think you caught glimpses of it...then it probably was visible. On many occasions I've passed through the same thing, looked in larger scopes and seen that there IS an object there
congrats...now it's time to test it in clear dark skies
Carlos
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33042
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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Good job Bill. 
Scott
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  Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Carlos nailed it! Next time you hit Scott's parents house, verify your findings...in your 80ed! Good targeting!
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Tom 
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Bill Grass
Prince Regent
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 11652
Loc: Denham Springs, LA
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Thanks, y'all!
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David A Rodger
sage
Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 393
Loc: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
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I saw M-1 last night, using my NexStar 9.25 GPS and a 27mm Panoptic eyepiece. It registers barely above the background sky, slightly greyer, and covers more territory than one might expect. This is from a city backyard, however, and I'm sure it would be a little easier to pick out in a dark sky.
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Orion Intelliscope 12
Orion 100mm ED refractor
Tele Vue NP-127 refractor
Celestron CPC 1100 SCT
Edited by David A Rodger (03/13/04 11:26 AM)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Last September, under very clear skies with low LP, I viewed M1 in my 70mm refractor. I had to carefully follow my star chart and know exactly where to look, and then use my best observing efforts.
Your scope should bring it in, if given the necessary sky conditions.
Subsequently, I have seen M1 with my 120mm. scope--not as difficult, but no piece of cake either.
There was not much in the way of details, but such is the case with faint fuzzies in small aperture scopes.
Bill in WI
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Mess11
member
Reged: 01/29/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Scottdale, PA
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I can see the Crab and for me it is very faint.
M 78 is the same way. I know when I have found M 78 when I see a very dim patch and two dim stars. 
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Rhadamantys
sage
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 214
Loc: France
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Congratulations. The Crab is not very easy under light polluted skys.
Under better than average skies, it is very easy, even with a 80mm refractor (Best viewed at the mag of 40x with such an apperture IMHO).
For those with lightcups (say 80mm refractor), a more challenging object would be NGC 2071, north of M78 (unfortunatly too often overlooked). It is centered on a Mag 10 star. I saw it without difficulty with a 80mm f/6.25 refractor at 40x (Nagler 13), without any filter and without averted vision. Conditions: Elevation 4,000 ft, Temp: -10°C, significant light pollution.
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Vincent
"The universe is a circle whose center is everywhere and the periphery nowhere." Pascal
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Diego
super member
Reged: 07/29/03
Posts: 179
Loc: Argentina South America
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I've "seen" it with the cheapo 80mm celestron firstscope at 56X. I had to use adverted vision to the point where you're almost not even looking at the object. It was soo soo faint, more like a small patch of sky being slightly brighter where the crab is at. NELM is about 4.7 and located at about 3300 ft above sea level.
Diego
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Diego
Celestron 80 mm f11.4
Oberwerk 20x90
6" f7.8 Reflector
Edited by Diego (03/16/04 09:27 AM)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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M1 is a very disappointing object. I observed it a few years ago, and it was distinctly underwhelming. It looked like a turnip, and a faint turnip at that. And this was under moderately dark skies, albeit with average seeing.
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Bill Grass
Prince Regent
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 11652
Loc: Denham Springs, LA
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Quote:
I've "seen" it with the cheapo 80mm celestron firstscope at 56X. I had to use adverted vision to the point where you're almost not even looking at the object. It was soo soo faint, more like a small patch of sky being slightly brighter where the crab is at.
That's a good description of what I saw, Diego.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Few monthes ago, under almost perfect skies (6-7m skies, in a middle of desert) I've seen M1 through a pair of good 20x70 binoculars. It looked like a very small, dim patch (more like a star which is a little out of focus). It was a little tough to find it, because I didn't hae a tripod, and I'm not really familiar with skies.
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AJTony
sage
Reged: 04/17/04
Posts: 379
Loc: Hamilton Square, NJ
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Bill,
While reading your post, my eye caught the phrase “cupped my hands around the eyepiece”. I live in a light polluted suburbia, and I used to do the same, but no more. Go to Orion’s website, accessories, observing aids. (It is not in their catalogue) It is called Lights Out Observing Canopy, well worth the $16.95. Simple but effective. I use it with my 25 X 100 Apogee binoculars, and I can clearly see M1 from my back deck, 100 yards from a busy intersection/traffic light.
Have fun,
Tony
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