Rogerio
super member
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 177
Loc: Soteropolis
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Hi everybody!
I've read In many Brazilian foruns, that the minimum magnificatio to split Antares Is something about 180-200X.
Well... I like to challenge myself, trying to resolve doubles with low power mag.
I have the impression that I can see the Antares companion with 100X, In my 8'' F8 Dob. but my skepticism lead me to ask you: Am I crazy or does anyone else also can do this?
Clear skies
Rogerio
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SaberScorpX
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 4121
Loc: illinois, usa
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Hi Rogerio.
Crazy is relative around here. However, you're not alone in reporting the split at ~100x.
Due to the primary's brightness and magnitude difference busting the pup is highly dependent on seeing conditions. Accordingly the frequency of lower power splits tends to increase as the observers latitude decreases, but this is not written in stone. Antares has been known to split at 100x one night but be impossible at any power the next.
When possible, I'd go along with 180-200x as a popular average.
SJS
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RLTYS
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/18/04
Posts: 1740
Loc: New York (Long Island)
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Rogerio
I finally managed to split Antares with my 10" refl at 254x, last year. Maybe Antares can be resolved at lower powers, I was just happy to resolve Antares at all.  It would also depend on where your observing from.
Clear Skies and Good Luck.
Rich (RLTYS)
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10" F4.8 Refl.
4" F5 Refr.
50mm F12 Refr. (Tasco #6TE-5)
12x63 and 10x50 Binoculars.
"I want to do more then just look."
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Catapoman
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 685
Loc: VA
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As others have mentioned this split is seeing condition. Back in the Summer 2006 I was able to split it at 140x using my NX11GPS. With the right conditions I would be surprised to hear it was split at 100x.
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Pernel
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ABC
sage
Reged: 10/22/06
Posts: 421
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
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Clean split last year with my 5" f/10 mak at 141x using Baader Genuine Ortho 9mm.
However, this was in South Portugal at latitude 37° north with best seeing (9-10/10). Under such conditions, a premium 6"-7" refractor or 8"-10" reflector may split Antares at 100x or even lower.
I was only two or three times successful here in Germany at latitude 49.5° north, at good seeing and using my superb 6" ED.
...location...location...location... 
--------------------
Kind regards, Christian
Meade 178 ED
Meade 152 ED
Intes Micro Alter M500
Bresser 70/700 Achromat
CGE
EQ-6
Edited by ABC (06/06/08 12:07 PM)
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Rogerio
super member
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 177
Loc: Soteropolis
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Thank's for you all!! So, It's possible! Well, I live In alow latitude city, In fact, Antares culminates at 77 degrees of altitude in my site, but I've done It with the star in ~45 degrees. The scope: a 8'' nice ATM reflector, the EP a 16T5 Nagler. The wind here isn't the biggest problem... I'll continue to observe It at 100X., If I'm wrong, I tell you.
Clear skies
Rogerio
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Catapoman
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 685
Loc: VA
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You at least have a great veiwing position. Here's another report from 2004 when I split Antares with a TMB 100f/8 apo.
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Bonco
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 1979
Loc: Florida
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14 July 07 My notes have me splitting Antares with my 3 inch Polarex at 250X. I've frequently had beautiful splits with my 4 inch, yet at times even my 10 inch won't show it. One of the most fickle doubles I know of. Seems conditions have to be just right. I can believe 100X in a 8 inch as I have notes indicating I possibly detected it at 133X with the 3 inch
Bill N.
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RV6
Meade 2045
6 inch f/4 RFT R. Fagin Optics
TV Genesis
2.4 inch Lafayette Equitorial
3 inch Polarex/Unitron Equitorial
10 inch Zhumell
PST 40mm Solar scope
4 inch F/15 Antares
2.4 inch Unitron Equitorial
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Rogerio
super member
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 177
Loc: Soteropolis
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Hi everybody! Pernel, I read your report, and understand that my sky conditions are a little better than yours, to this star. That's because, with high powers, I can easily split Antares, observing the secondary all the time while It crosses the field.
Yesterday I had a good observation session, again i had the strong impression that i can split It with 100X... but i was realy impressed with the view with 480X (Radian 10mm GSO Barlow 3X). It looked like a blue-green planet around a orange star!!!  The kind of image that I'll wont forget.
Clear skies
Rogerio
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Catapoman
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 685
Loc: VA
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Rogerio,
Sounds like you had another great experience. Did you attempt to split at 100x during that viewing session?
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Pernel
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Rogerio
super member
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 177
Loc: Soteropolis
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Pernel,
yes, I've attempted to split at 100X In every observation. Once again I could spot, not all the time, but with a combination of precise eye position and focus. It's difficult to me to explain, a sketch would be easier. But I'll try.
Antares enters the FOV at 11 o'clock, with the companion at ~8 o'clock, I can see It until It reaches the center of the FOV, from this position It becomes progressively hard to split, It's not visible at the lower edge.
the biggest problem is that I already know the companion position, wick can introduce a big bias In my perception! What I need Is another experienced double observer, to confirm this. I'll try my wife eyes ASAP, despite her astigmatism, she's a good observer.
By the way, I can easily split Antares with 133X (24Pan TV 2X Barlow), I think that's the best view. This fact lead me to want a 12-13mm EP 
Rogerio
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Avatar
super member
Reged: 05/27/06
Posts: 154
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I hope this report doesn't come off sounding crazy and sensational, but I definitely isolated the secondary of Antares three nights ago at 111x in a 4 inch achromat.
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Bonco
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 1979
Loc: Florida
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I'll buy that Avatar...With steady skies, I've busted it clean and sweet with my 4 inch Genesis. Unfortunately my notes don't indicate the power used.
Bill N.
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RV6
Meade 2045
6 inch f/4 RFT R. Fagin Optics
TV Genesis
2.4 inch Lafayette Equitorial
3 inch Polarex/Unitron Equitorial
10 inch Zhumell
PST 40mm Solar scope
4 inch F/15 Antares
2.4 inch Unitron Equitorial
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12565
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Reading some of these reports led me to spend the better part of last night on a few doubles. Once it came into view I trained my TV102 on Antares hoping for the best.
A bit earlier, with the TV102, I had a beautiful split of e Boo at several powers and at 100x could still see the secondary very clearly separated with a nice contrasting color. I also used a TMB80SS on e Boo and had beautiful splits at 156x and also at 100X.
Before Antares came into view, I set the TV102 upon lambda Oph (Mirfak). This was quite difficult. Attempting higher powers here showed a wavering image. 275x was useless. 220x was only slightly better. 176x was about the minimum power that allowed me to see that Marfik appeared with a some darkened space between, but the image never stood still enough for me to see the components separated. Marfik is about 1.45 arcseconds.
Finally Antares came into view. With the TV102, I used powers of 220x, 176x, 150x. Seeing at this much lower altitude in the sky was not nearly as good as it was higher up on e Boo or h Oph. At times image jumped around about 3-4 arcsec. For some good periods, I estimated image wavering about 2 arcsec. Unfortunately after about 1 1/2 hours of trying, I could not see the faint secondary. Even with some brief moments of decent seeing (<2"), nothing was to be seen.
I'll try again sometime.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Bonco
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 1979
Loc: Florida
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edz...Nice try, You need to move down south. 
Bill N. (Florida)
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RV6
Meade 2045
6 inch f/4 RFT R. Fagin Optics
TV Genesis
2.4 inch Lafayette Equitorial
3 inch Polarex/Unitron Equitorial
10 inch Zhumell
PST 40mm Solar scope
4 inch F/15 Antares
2.4 inch Unitron Equitorial
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Catapoman
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 685
Loc: VA
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Quote:
yes, I've attempted to split at 100X In every observation. Once again I could spot, not all the time, but with a combination of precise eye position and focus.
Success is success!  Maybe you'll get one of those excellent nights that give you a view across the entire fov.
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Pernel
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Fiske
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 2057
Loc: Missouri / United States
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I'm a little worried about booing and hissing for mentioning this, but sometime back an observing buddy showed me a trick on splitting Antares -- use an OIII filter. The filter, which makes stars look greener, dims down the orange primary considerably more than the secondary, making this DS an easier to split. I haven't experimented with how low a magnification could be used in combination with an OIII, but I bet it would be down there...
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Fiske Miles
Nikon 8x42 LX / 12x50 SE Binos
Mini Borg 60ED, TV-101, AT80Ach, XT-8, C11/CI-700, 22-Inch Dob
Way too many Nagler eyepieces
http://www.fiskemiles.blogspot.com/
www.fiskemiles.com
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RLTYS
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/18/04
Posts: 1740
Loc: New York (Long Island)
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Fiske
You have to be very careful with an OIII filter. Too much of a chance of seeing false secondary images. I personally wouldn't recommend it.
Clear Skies.
Rich (RLTYS)
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10" F4.8 Refl.
4" F5 Refr.
50mm F12 Refr. (Tasco #6TE-5)
12x63 and 10x50 Binoculars.
"I want to do more then just look."
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Fiske
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 2057
Loc: Missouri / United States
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Rich:
You are RIGHT about that! I tried it last night when the full moon was almost on top of Antares and realized immediately it was a false secondary image. The technique does work well, though, under better viewing conditions.
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Fiske Miles
Nikon 8x42 LX / 12x50 SE Binos
Mini Borg 60ED, TV-101, AT80Ach, XT-8, C11/CI-700, 22-Inch Dob
Way too many Nagler eyepieces
http://www.fiskemiles.blogspot.com/
www.fiskemiles.com
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Bonco
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 1979
Loc: Florida
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I think this came up last year on this forum ...I tried it and got a false green star.
Bill N.
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RV6
Meade 2045
6 inch f/4 RFT R. Fagin Optics
TV Genesis
2.4 inch Lafayette Equitorial
3 inch Polarex/Unitron Equitorial
10 inch Zhumell
PST 40mm Solar scope
4 inch F/15 Antares
2.4 inch Unitron Equitorial
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Thunderhead
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/27/05
Posts: 562
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Splitting Antares is one thing I've NEVER acomplished, even though I had split Sirius with my 10".
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SAB - Melbourne, Australia
GSO 10" F5 Dob with flocking & dewshield
12" (304mm) F4.6 truss dob with premium optics
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RLTYS
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/18/04
Posts: 1740
Loc: New York (Long Island)
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Instead of an OIII filter, what about using some sort of Neutral Density filter?
Rich (RLTYS)
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10" F4.8 Refl.
4" F5 Refr.
50mm F12 Refr. (Tasco #6TE-5)
12x63 and 10x50 Binoculars.
"I want to do more then just look."
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Rogerio
super member
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 177
Loc: Soteropolis
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Quote:
Splitting Antares is one thing I've NEVER acomplished, even though I had split Sirius with my 10".
Very strange... I think that Antares Is much more easy to split than Sirius. in fact, I've observed Sirius many times and never got a really clear view. Antares, for me, can be easily splited with 140X or more.
By now I'm suffering tho so called: "Curse of the new equipment" My new 8'' F6 has arrived, I have the 100X mag ready to test It, but my nights  
Rogerio
Edited by Rogerio (06/18/08 11:34 AM)
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Fiske
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 2057
Loc: Missouri / United States
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Quote:
Instead of an OIII filter, what about using some sort of Neutral Density filter?
Rich (RLTYS)
The reason the OIII filter works is because Antares is such an orange star and OIII filters make stars look greener. Since green is opposite of orange on the color wheel, the filter has a much more dramatic effect on the Antares primary than on its secondary star, selectively dimming the primary and making the split much easier.
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Fiske Miles
Nikon 8x42 LX / 12x50 SE Binos
Mini Borg 60ED, TV-101, AT80Ach, XT-8, C11/CI-700, 22-Inch Dob
Way too many Nagler eyepieces
http://www.fiskemiles.blogspot.com/
www.fiskemiles.com
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Bonco
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 1979
Loc: Florida
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The problem using an O111 type filter is the multilayer coatings can cause spurious reflections or false stars close to the bright primary.
Bill N.
--------------------
RV6
Meade 2045
6 inch f/4 RFT R. Fagin Optics
TV Genesis
2.4 inch Lafayette Equitorial
3 inch Polarex/Unitron Equitorial
10 inch Zhumell
PST 40mm Solar scope
4 inch F/15 Antares
2.4 inch Unitron Equitorial
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Bonco
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 1979
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
Splitting Antares is one thing I've NEVER acomplished, even though I had split Sirius with my 10".
I"ve had different results. Took me many years to finally view Sirius in my 10 inch. However I've viewed Antares in 3,4,6,10 inch scopes.
Bill N.
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RV6
Meade 2045
6 inch f/4 RFT R. Fagin Optics
TV Genesis
2.4 inch Lafayette Equitorial
3 inch Polarex/Unitron Equitorial
10 inch Zhumell
PST 40mm Solar scope
4 inch F/15 Antares
2.4 inch Unitron Equitorial
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mosdc61
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/04/06
Posts: 510
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We had still air momentarily last night to allow detecting Antare's companion at 150x, and separating it at 200x in my 12" dob.
Like a few others, I've found I can separate at lower powers with a refractor or SCT/MCT. All my dobs have been wonderful, but I find the spider vanes tend to obscure splitting at low power. Nearly the same for the Double-double, 100x needed to split both cleanly, where I normally need 60-75x in a small refractor.
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 10307
Loc: Oort Cloud
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154x using a Tak FS-78.
The ocular was a 10.2mm Ortho, combined with a 2.5x Powermate.
Most important factors--
Almost perfect seeing at the time, even though the star was quite low (as seen from 43.5 deg. N. latitude).
Very clean, contrasty optics.
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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Rogerio
super member
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 177
Loc: Soteropolis
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Hi everybody!
Yesterday I spent a lot of time observing Antares, with six different magnification, from 97X to 360X, with my 8'' F6 Dob. Yet without a perfect colimation, I had again the impression of splitting It at 97X. The best view was with 145X.
Clear skies
Rogerio
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RLTYS
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/18/04
Posts: 1740
Loc: New York (Long Island)
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To All
Last night under changeable seeing conditions (6-7/10) I was just able to split Antares at 174x with my 10" refl. The companion would be visible (just touching Antares) at moments of best seeing. I tried 254x but the companion refused to reveal itself. I guess the seeing wasn't good enought for higher mags.
Clear Skies.
Rich (RLTYS)
--------------------
10" F4.8 Refl.
4" F5 Refr.
50mm F12 Refr. (Tasco #6TE-5)
12x63 and 10x50 Binoculars.
"I want to do more then just look."
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1811
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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Under good seeing two nights ago I finally split Antares for the first time in my TMB 105/650. It was during a first light on a pair of 8mm Ethos in a Denk II binoviewer which was providing quite spectacular views that evening. It was clearly split without the reducer/barlow, but with a lower powered OCA attached directly into the Denks (not sure exactly what magnification it provides that way, but it's quite a bit less than when it's screwed into the diagonal). I estimate it was around 160x or so. It was clearer at 320x.
The secondary was a lot closer than I was expecting. It seemed closer than 2.9", but then again Antares is so bright it produces a fairly large image. It was also clear in comparing the seeing with other nights as to why I had never seen it before - this is definitely a double to save up for a night of really steady seeing!
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Edited by CESDewar (06/28/08 12:09 AM)
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Bonco
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 1979
Loc: Florida
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