Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page


Observing >> Double Star Observing

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
rookie
Good Night Nurse
*****

Reged: 01/14/06

Loc: St. Petersburg, FL
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5436939 - 09/23/12 08:36 PM

From my female perpective, I think I'm more prosaic about my own observations in regards to describing one rose hue from another, but I do love reading unique descriptions and often use them to see if I can discern an author's perception.

I do see single star, Zubeneschamali as greenish.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Aleko
super member
*****

Reged: 08/01/10

Loc: Georgia
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5437146 - 09/23/12 10:56 PM

If the aperture of the scope makes the stars of a double appear too bright, the colors wash out. Throwing the image a bit out of focus often times brings out the color. One can also change the magnification to find the best saturation of color.

Alex


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RobDob
sage


Reged: 04/10/10

Loc: Brentwood (East Bay Area), CA
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: jimarshall]
      #5437207 - 09/23/12 11:36 PM Attachment (77 downloads)

Quote:

Quote:

Can you see colors in Albireo ? It has the Univeristy of Michigan colors of maze & blue. I have a friend who said that he never saw colors in stars until I showed him Albireo. That colored double even looks nice out of focus!

Jim



I agree, Albireo looks spectacular slightly out of focus under moonlit skies. If you can't see color in the stars then, you must have color vision problems.




I was out last night taking point'n'shoot pics of the Lunar X and grabbed a batch of Albireo shots. None were in focus, no way to hold the camera that steady!

Found this blurry shot that really depicts the colors spot on! Z12 w/28mm RKE and Nikon S6300 afocal through the eyepiece.

Rob


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
brianb11213
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/25/09

Loc: 55.215N 6.554W
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: Aleko]
      #5437438 - 09/24/12 03:58 AM

Quote:

If the aperture of the scope makes the stars of a double appear too bright, the colors wash out. Throwing the image a bit out of focus often times brings out the color. One can also change the magnification to find the best saturation of color.



+1 ... great advice. Viewing brighter doubles in strong moonlight or twilight (when it's too bright for other DSOs) also makes a lot of sense.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rookie
Good Night Nurse
*****

Reged: 01/14/06

Loc: St. Petersburg, FL
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: brianb11213]
      #5437595 - 09/24/12 07:48 AM

Rob, I agree, hand holding a camera at the lens really is impossible. You can buy a universal afocus camera adapter. I have one that fits both 1" & 2" ep's. It is not big enough for my wide field 2" pieces, but it does a great job with the others. My Cannon S100 lens fits perfectly in the Nagler & panoptic 1 1/2" ep's without touching the glass. You make best focus with your eye and let the camera do the rest.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drollere
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/02/10

Loc: sebastopol, california
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: C_Moon]
      #5437905 - 09/24/12 11:32 AM

Quote:

I might agree with the gold and copper, it's somewhat a personal interpretation. I take it to mean both colors represent various tints between yellow and orange, with gold being more yellow and copper more orange.



the entire issue is whether you want to make a personal or consensus judgment. if you want to make a personal judgment, then there is no reason not to replace "pale lilac with a topaz tint" with "the color of my favorite socks." who cares whether anyone else can interpret that? to you it makes perfect sense.

if you want to make a consensus judgment, in other words a scientific judgment, then long experience in a variety of disciplines shows that you get there by using a standard rather than personal procedure. "copper" is a dull orange, and "gold" is a pale orange yellow.

Quote:

It is possibly explained if you consider that Females have a different proportion of Cones to Rods then men, as well as Age deterioration of our Cornea.



this is a misconception about color as a sensation: the obvious example is that our lenses yellow with age, but we notice no color change across the life span. our personal color experience gets remapped onto the increasingly filtered light, and color experience stays the same. in the same way we adjust effortlessly when the illuminant (color of ambient illumination) changes. color is always an interpretation of retinal data.

the counterargument is that, if we individually all have different color vision capabilities, then how can we all agree on describing a colored object? because color language is just a form of consensus interpretation, which individuals learn to map so that their descriptions match those of other people. and the surest way to do that is to restrict the color descriptions to a limited number of categorial terms used in a limited number of combinations. color description is always an interpretation of how to use color language.

Quote:

I must say that Sissy's "unique" color descriptions have motivated me on more than one night to hunt down an otherwise obscure (i.e., non-famous) double just to see what "pale topaz with a lilac tint" was all about.



of course; no question. but speech with a motivating intent is rhetoric, and speech that motivates a purchase outcome is marketing. haas's descriptions implicitly borrow from the marketing lexicon in wallpaints, foods, cosmetics, fashion and decor. they are pretty, poetic, enthusiastic, evocative, suggestive. they made you run out and look. i myself refer to 61 cygni as "coppery" because i have an affection for the pair. by all means, let us share the joy of color, and encourage enthusiasm in others.

there is a significant difference between speech that intends to convey or arouse feeling, and speech that intends to record sensory data. i commended david's language because it sets a basic framework in which the OP, who has an issue with star color, can navigate his own exploration reliably.

analytic color description respects the fact that the distinction between "yellow" and "no color" is on a different level from the distinction between "straw" and "maize". it ensures that the distinction can be affirmed as a fact rather than debated as a personal difference in sophistication or taste, and does not imply a precision that is inappropriate for delicately and elusively colored star images.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom and Beth
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Tucson, AZ
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: fvandrog]
      #5438089 - 09/24/12 01:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Can you actually see the colors in colored doubles? Which doubles actually show their colors through the eyepiece? Thanks.
Jim




Yesterday someone posted this link with a very convenient list of interestingly colored double stars. I have immediately bookmarked that link, but have evidently forgotten to who the credit is due.....

F.




Over the last few nights I've enjoyed observing many pairs on this list, several of them new to me. Thanks

EDIT: One of the stars new to me (and actually not sure how I've missed it) is Almaak, AKA Gamma AND. The Blue Component is also a double star, although you'll need quite a telescope to split it with the 0.4 Arc Second separation.

Edited by Tom and Beth (09/25/12 06:46 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
edwinh
super member
*****

Reged: 03/01/08

Loc: Chandler AZ
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: Tom and Beth]
      #5440935 - 09/26/12 12:58 AM

Yes, me too. I have not been excited by double-star observing so far other than the obvious Albireo, but after just browsing this forum and this particular thread, decided to give it a try again.

Knocked out all the cas/peresus/aries/and. ones just the last hour or two. Nice with the color contrasts. Consider me converted. Thanks again to whomever posted the link, and the list up above in this thread.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fvandrog
member


Reged: 09/07/12

Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: drollere]
      #5441063 - 09/26/12 04:39 AM

Quote:


if you want to make a consensus judgment, in other words a scientific judgment, then long experience in a variety of disciplines shows that you get there by using a standard rather than personal procedure. "copper" is a dull orange, and "gold" is a pale orange yellow.




Even those color descriptions don't count as objective scientific statements. In most papers spectra and wavelengths are relatively carefully described. Of course those can be 'translated' back to colors, but since color, but since seeing colors is rather subjective and differences between people are large its easy to get misunderstanding that way.

I guess everybody know someone that insists a clearly green shirt is blue -- or the other way around. Evidently, they are mistaken , but these issues makes attributing colors to stars tricky.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
David Knisely
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/19/04

Loc: southeastern Nebraska
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: drollere]
      #5442219 - 09/26/12 07:07 PM

drollere wrote:

Quote:

one merit worth emulating in knisely's list is his analytic color language. it consists of basic hue terms (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, white), plus modifying blends (blue white, yellow orange, etc.), plus the tint designators "ish" (yellowish orange), plus the saturation designator "pale". star colors are rarely strongly saturated, excepting perhaps carbon stars, but "intense" is a high saturation term to keep handy.




Well, I have yet to see any star (double or otherwise) that is a "violet" color. What I see (from hottest to coolest and the approximate spectral class) are a pale blue (O and early B spectral types), bluish-white (late B and A spectral types), white (mostly F class), off-white (cream, late F to early G class), yellowish-white (mid G class and giants), yellow (mostly K-class), orange (late K-class to early M-class), and reddish-orange (mid to late M-class). Carbon stars appear to me as a deep reddish-orange, although they tend to be a little redder when in the faint phase of their light curves. Otherwise, I don't really see the other somewhat wilder "colors" that were commonly reported by some of the historic visual double star observers. Clear skies to you.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5442478 - 09/26/12 09:40 PM

Quote:

drollere wrote:

Quote:

one merit worth emulating in knisely's list is his analytic color language. it consists of basic hue terms (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, white), plus modifying blends (blue white, yellow orange, etc.), plus the tint designators "ish" (yellowish orange), plus the saturation designator "pale". star colors are rarely strongly saturated, excepting perhaps carbon stars, but "intense" is a high saturation term to keep handy.




Well, I have yet to see any star (double or otherwise) that is a "violet" color. What I see (from hottest to coolest and the approximate spectral class) are a pale blue (O and early B spectral types), bluish-white (late B and A spectral types), white (mostly F class), off-white (cream, late F to early G class), yellowish-white (mid G class and giants), yellow (mostly K-class), orange (late K-class to early M-class), and reddish-orange (mid to late M-class). Carbon stars appear to me as a deep reddish-orange, although they tend to be a little redder when in the faint phase of their light curves. Otherwise, I don't really see the other somewhat wilder "colors" that were commonly reported by some of the historic visual double star observers. Clear skies to you.




I actually have seen lavender stars. They arent REALLY lavender of course. It was one of MacRoberts star hop articles way back, I belive in Lyra and there was some yellow star ... maybe third mag or more and the star near it was noted as lavender. I laughed when I read it but this dimmer star [magnitude 9 maybe] distinctly appeared to hayve a grey lavender tinge. Total contrast effect thrown off by the bright yellow star near it. Would I have seen it as lavender without MacRoberts suggestion - I doubt it. But after that point the lavender/yellow contrast effect has reared its head from time to time. Ive still NEVER seen a green star.

Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Perigny270
super member


Reged: 10/23/11

Loc: Temiscaming, Quebec
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5480982 - 10/20/12 08:42 PM

I enjoy everybody's descriptions. This has been fun reading. I will go look for more of the ones with the interesting colours - for me it is the difference between them that stands out. But then, some of those intense blue pairs are special...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hal9000
sage


Reged: 02/13/06

Loc: Liverpool, England.
Re: Colored doubles? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5509065 - 11/07/12 09:24 PM

Quote:

Yesterday someone posted this link with a very convenient list of interestingly colored double stars. I have immediately bookmarked that link, but have evidently forgotten to who the credit is due.....

F.




Great link F...Al


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)


Extra information
1 registered and 4 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  PJ Anway, Rich (RLTYS), rflinn68 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 2610

Jump to

CN Forums Home




Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics