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jrbarnett
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"Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions
      #5512014 - 11/09/12 05:26 PM

You observe Albireo.

You could report "The primary was yellow and the secondary was blue." Ho-hum.

You could jazz it up a bit and say "The primary was a brilliant yellow and the secondary a pale, lovely blue." Ookay.

Or you could use your words and really lay it on thick, and opine "The primary was a lustrous citrine with a companion of blazing aquamarine." Yee-haw! That's the spirit!

Back in the day when the Smyths and Webbs of the world were describing the doubles they'd resolved, they had a lot of time on their hands and large, personal libraries loaded with reference tomes. One can imagine a class A-1 toff like Smythy saying to himself "Hrmph, 'yellow and blue' simply won't do. I am a learned man. I must use terms that only other learned gentle-folk will understand. *sniff*. Allow me to consult my dictonary...ah, yes, here we are. 'A glittering flavous primary attended by a dear wee companion of palest indigo'. There, now that's a proper description."

Here are some fun color terms to play with when compiling your own observing notes for double stars.

“Flowery” Color Vocabulary for Double Star Aficionados

Reds:

Red
Ruddy
Rosy
Rose
Cardinal
Carmine
Claret
Crimson
Copper
Garnet
Rubicund
Ruby
Salmon
Scarlet
Vermillion

Blues:

Azure
Aquamarine
Cerulean
Cobalt
Indigo
Sapphire
Turquoise

Yellows:

Amber
Aureate
Canary
Blonde
Citrine
Citron
Flavous
Fulvous
Gold
Honey
Lemon
Primrose
Sallow
Straw
Tawny

Orange:

Apricot
Coral
Peach
Tangerine
Titian

White:

Alabaster
Ashen
Blanched
Chalk
Hoary
Ivory
Milky
Pearly
Silver
Snow
Waxen

So the next time you report on a double star observation here on CN, we expect it to be luscious and succulent with dripping color terminology.

I'm sure there are many more color terms that could be added to the above sampling.

Enjoy.

- Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (11/09/12 08:12 PM)


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fred1871
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5512109 - 11/09/12 06:25 PM

A wonderful list of colour terms, Jim. They're certainly beyond my ability to discern as separate colour tones.

But, please, please, could we have the correct spelling for Albireo - not "Alberio", which sounds like an invitation to Oktoberfest. Yes, I know, it depends on one's accent... and some folk try to spell the way they happen to speak, imagining words to all have phonetic spelling.

And I suspect poor old Smyth, with his amazing colour vocabulary, far more extravagant than Webb's, was a chap who saw himself as "learned", not "leaned".

You're quite right of course - we must not use such flowery language in the grimly practical and down-to-earth 21st century. Colour (or color) me plain. And I'll see stars that way too.

By the way - "cirtine"??? - I'm not certain that even Smyth would use such a term (unless you've found him doing so...)


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jrbarnett
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: fred1871]
      #5512251 - 11/09/12 08:13 PM

Dude, I type fast and am just too lazy to spell check.

- Jim

Edited by RLTYS (11/10/12 06:40 AM)


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Ed Wiley
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5512315 - 11/09/12 09:07 PM

Double star folks should take lessons from the wine oenophiles if they want to get "flowery."

Ed


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Bonco
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Ed Wiley]
      #5512353 - 11/09/12 09:41 PM

Funny post...all good humor,(humour?)has an element of truth in it.
Bill


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Asbytec
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Bonco]
      #5512403 - 11/09/12 10:31 PM

Jim's list is too short and he left out lilac.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colors


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mountain monk
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5512463 - 11/09/12 11:26 PM

Nice list, but it presumes the perceptual ability to make the relevant distinctions. Put a (white) egg next to a porcelain bowl next to a page from an open book all on a linen table cloth. Try to paint them. And what color is the open sea off Point Reyes in sunlight in afternoon in late October? Use a pure hue of any of the blues in your list and you will fail miserably--as I did only two weeks ago. Then read Color and Culture by John Gage (U of C Press). Then despair. Thoreau noted that Americans have/had a particularly limited ability to discern and describe color. And American astronomers...? Nice list though, and a great subject.

Dark skies.

Jack Turner

Edited by mountain monk (11/09/12 11:29 PM)


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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5512739 - 11/10/12 06:39 AM

Hay, I like the list and will try to use it.

Rich (RLTYS)


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Man in a Tub
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5513958 - 11/11/12 03:20 AM

Here's a link to a list of "obscure colour terms" with just a wee bit of duplication of the list above.

The author's disclaimer at the top is a gem: "Don't worry if the colours (or colors) in your universe don't match up with the definitions I've given for these words, though - I've been known to have skewed perceptions of reality ..."

http://phrontistery.info/colours.html

Edited by Man in a Tub (11/11/12 04:52 AM)


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jrbarnett
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Man in a Tub]
      #5514223 - 11/11/12 10:40 AM

Todd, that is awesome!

I'm sorting through a semi-permanent setup on my deck here at home and plan on multitudes of double star observations. "I shall endeavour to utilise these vainglorious and gaudy hue delineations."



- Jim


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Asbytec
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5514232 - 11/11/12 10:43 AM

"I do"

I like them...LOL


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drollere
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5515971 - 11/12/12 01:02 PM

there is a bit of "color history" on this topic that is worth knowing.

color terms, as a basic language tool, start from humble beginnings. most primitive cultures have only a handful of terms, which are gradually expanded. (i've written a detailed account HERE.)

"flowery" color terms are actually a product of the late 18th and 19th centuries, in other words, of the industrial revolution. and they are closely associated with the commercial use of colors: dye and paint technology became far more productive during that period, due to advances in basic and industrial chemistry. many inorganic pigments still used today, such as viridian, ultramarine, cobalt blue, iron oxides, manganese violet, etc., etc., were developed in the early 19th century.

industry created variety, and commerce demanded labeling, and the result was a huge increase in the number of color terms. and also an increase in the acceptance of their use to discriminate color differences. this can be traced from a.g. werner's Nomenclature of Colors (1774) through robert ridgeway's Color Standards and Color Nomenclature (1912). references such as these provided a series of hand painted colored patches as a visual standard for each color, with the color's name and, in earlier versions, a list of flowers, insects or minerals that exemplified the color in nature. similar tools are still used today to sort or grade products in horticulture, agriculture and food processing.

however color science has moved on since then, and industrial colors are now given dull and pedantic numerical designations, either as paint or ink combinations (e.g., in the pantone system) or as coordinates in a color space (the Munsell color system or the CIECAM color model). these have the same romance and zing as the HIP or HP numbers assigned to stars.

as i posted elsewhere, brightness, chroma and hue are still the fundamental attributes of color, and are the three most important color attributes to communicate accurately and reliably. there is great fun and poetry in a personal color language, but poetry usually allows the reader to provide his own interpretation.


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jrbarnett
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: drollere]
      #5516310 - 11/12/12 04:40 PM

Hold up there, MacEvoy...are you sayin' that what I'm callin' "aquamarine", ain't?

- Jim


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rookie
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Man in a Tub]
      #5517107 - 11/13/12 12:19 AM

Quote:

Here's a link to a list of "obscure colour terms" with just a wee bit of duplication of the list above.

The author's disclaimer at the top is a gem: "Don't worry if the colours (or colors) in your universe don't match up with the definitions I've given for these words, though - I've been known to have skewed perceptions of reality ..."

http://phrontistery.info/colours.html



Love the list Todd, I'm printing it up and will keep it in my log book for observation reports.
Fun topic Jim. Your own creative list is great too. Thanks


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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Man in a Tub]
      #5517797 - 11/13/12 12:05 PM

Quote:

Here's a link to a list of "obscure colour terms" with just a wee bit of duplication of the list above.

The author's disclaimer at the top is a gem: "Don't worry if the colours (or colors) in your universe don't match up with the definitions I've given for these words, though - I've been known to have skewed perceptions of reality ..."

http://phrontistery.info/colours.html




That is one cool list unfortunetly I can't even begin to pronouce most of those names.

Rich (RLTYS)


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MikeMcCaskey
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Ed Wiley]
      #5522725 - 11/16/12 11:24 AM

Quote:

Double star folks should take lessons from the wine oenophiles if they want to get "flowery."

Ed




From the flowery words it kinda makes you wonder if the two activities haven't gotten a little blurry...............


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astroneil
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: MikeMcCaskey]
      #5522792 - 11/16/12 12:01 PM

Language is a precious and enriching manifestation of the human mind.

To suggest a moratorium on colour descriptions fills me we absolute dread.

....just another blind step towards the Universal.


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nytecam
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5523233 - 11/16/12 05:22 PM

Quote:

Dude, I type fast and am just too lazy to spell check. - Jim


Jim - your sounding a bit Smythy to me and I'd hope we've moved on from those flowery time. Anyway, when you've done a bit of spectroscopy, all these colour description seem nonsence

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Asbytec
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: astroneil]
      #5523464 - 11/16/12 09:02 PM

Quote:

Language is a precious and enriching manifestation of the human mind.

To suggest a moratorium on colour descriptions fills me we absolute dread.

....just another blind step towards the Universal.




Agreed. One can imagine human communication never evolving beyond the primitive, "Ug!"


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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: nytecam]
      #5523891 - 11/17/12 07:13 AM

Quote:

Jim - your sounding a bit Smythy to me and I'd hope we've moved on from those flowery time. Anyway, when you've done a bit of spectroscopy, all these colour description seem nonsence




Personally I just can't agree with you.

Rich (RLTYS)


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jrbarnett
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: nytecam]
      #5524422 - 11/17/12 01:59 PM

Ah, but I'm a telescoper, not a spectroscoper, so for me the color terms are sensical and sensible. Should I leave telescoping in favor of spectroscoping, I will be sure to abandon color adjectives.

- Jim


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rookie
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: nytecam]
      #5525276 - 11/17/12 11:20 PM

Quote:

Anyway, when you've done a bit of spectroscopy, all these colour description seem nonsence



Newton took the spectrum, curved it into a color wheel, and gave us endless possiblities. It's not eggplant, it's aubergine.


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Asbytec
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: rookie]
      #5525286 - 11/17/12 11:31 PM

Well, in the spectrum, there is no paint can shaker mixing flowery colors, say blue-white with near infra red. But, that doesn't mean we can use them visually. If it looks aubergine, well it looks aubergine. Now, find it's frequency.

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VanJan
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5525526 - 11/18/12 05:03 AM

In due consideration of the rather shady nuances of this thread , I suppose I would not be stretching the lexiconical spectrum too far by offering an updated English interpretation of Struve's color description of Zeta B Orionis - "olivaceasubrubicunda" - as an "embarrassed aperture envy" hue.

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rookie
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: VanJan]
      #5526611 - 11/18/12 06:47 PM



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jrbarnett
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: drollere]
      #6215709 - 11/25/13 05:21 PM

While it is true that many new color hues were the byproduct of the dye and chemicals industry of the industrial revolution, long before industrialization the western color vocabulary had already become rich and varied as a byproduct of heraldry.

Sable was "sable" long before I.G. Farben decided to muck about with "black".



- Jim


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azure1961p
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: nytecam]
      #6216269 - 11/25/13 10:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Dude, I type fast and am just too lazy to spell check. - Jim


Jim - your sounding a bit Smythy to me and I'd hope we've moved on from those flowery time. Anyway, when you've done a bit of spectroscopy, all these colour description seem nonsence




I think sterilizing a description of humanity by assigning cold spectral values while fine for cold science is all together bland and vacant for the needs of the average naturalist-astronomer. In the stricter pursuit of spectroscopy it works and its needed - but in the looser relaxed sense of one observer expressing an impression to another Smyth-like is preferred. Just so long as it isn't over done - lol - or done like the great Admiral.

Pete


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SusanY
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #6217600 - 11/26/13 04:43 PM

Great list, Jim. No more ho-hum in my log book. Now all I need is for the cinerious, fuliginous, griseous, cesious, liard, plumbeous, fuscous clouds to clear...

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Rick M.
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: SusanY]
      #6217870 - 11/26/13 06:58 PM

This stuff reminds me of the writings of wine critics who try to outdo one another by finding more and more exotic tastes/scents in red wine. Any fruit and flower is fair game not to mention the entire spice rack and mineral world.

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mountain monk
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Rick M.]
      #6218179 - 11/26/13 09:44 PM

Oh well, an insistence on using quaint vocabulary is always the sign of an amateur. Assuming that the purpose of prose is to communicate clearly, why use cerise instead of cherry red, citron instead of lemon yellow, or aubergine instead of dark purple? And wasn't Aubergine a character in Proust?

Edited by mountain monk (11/26/13 09:45 PM)


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jrbarnett
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: mountain monk]
      #6218421 - 11/26/13 11:54 PM

"Assuming that the purpose of prose is to communicate clearly..."

And here I thought the purpose of prose was to inform, educate, entertain and inspire. Silly me.

On a more serious note, is there anything less "clear" by calling Alberio "Canary and cobalt" than "Yeller and blue"? No. Rather the converse is true. Yellow and blue are supersets. There are millions of hues of each. Which hue of yellow? Which hue of blue? Canary and cobalt, if applied accurately to the subject, are more accurate than yellow and blue, in addition to being more...interesting.

Regards,

Jim


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Asbytec
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #6218472 - 11/27/13 12:27 AM

Jim, as a matter of literature, it's better to create an image using nouns and verbs rather than colorful adjectives. "An amber fireball pierces the black expanse..." (simple color, active nouns and verbs), as opposed to, "a fiery chartreuse star seen against a charcoal black sky..." (fiery adjectives, boring nouns and verbs.)

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SusanY
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #6218493 - 11/27/13 12:48 AM

I agree, and talking personally, I certainly would look a lot longer and a lot more carefully in order to determine the most accurate shade of let’s say a yellow I’m seeing.

Yellow, yellow-ish, yellowy, bright yellow, dull yellow… I get that right off. But canary – that’s a very specific yellow and will mean a lot more to me when I re-read a log book entry later, or want to compare what I saw with what my friend saw. Ditto honey. Gold. Straw. Tawny. Lemon. Primrose.

That's not to say I won't log a yellow, yellow-ish, yellowy, bright yellow, dull yellow - if that best describes what I saw.

I’m not likely to log a fulvous coloured star because I have no clue what shade of yellow fulvous is. No, wait a second, I just looked it up and it describes exactly the colour of the cloud of pollution I often see hanging over Cape Town on windless days when I drive over the mountain. A real onomatopoeiaic word; it sounds as poisonous as it looks.

Edited by SusanY (11/27/13 12:56 AM)


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mountain monk
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: SusanY]
      #6219067 - 11/27/13 11:10 AM

There are indeed millions of hues, but the names of only a fraction of them are in common use. I have no problem with lemon--indeed, that was one of my examples. Yes, red is too vague, but cherry red? Specific enough for me. Ditto honey, gold, straw… The ordinary lay reader will make those associations easily--same with tangerine, moss, etc. One of Strunk & White's rules (in The Elements of Style) is: Avoid fancy words.

I'm a bit sensitive to this issues since I am both a painter and a writer and I've had editors (at Outside) pull, e.g. "cerulean" as "affected" (oh dear me, where are my smelling salts) even though it is a common color for painters. In general, I go with KISS. And I agree with Asbytec: powerful writing relies on verbs. Again, the classic example is from The Elements of Style: "When Victoria was Queen of England." as opposed to "When Victoria reigned."

And Jim: I always appreciate your writing and wit here on CN. We would be the poorer without it.

Dark skies.

Jack


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jrbarnett
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6219679 - 11/27/13 03:47 PM

Dunno Norme. I'd say those two sentences reflect differences in literary *style* rather than differences in literary *quality*. There's no doubt that Lord Byron and John Steinbeck wrote differently stylistically, but I don't think either would be considered a literary hack despite one living on adjectives and the other on verbs and nouns.

- Jim


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jrbarnett
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: mountain monk]
      #6219721 - 11/27/13 04:05 PM

"...but cherry red..."

The perils of fruit colors.

Here's your sour cherry...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aDJDrl97gGk/TDDf5_yE3aI/AAAAAAAAAUg/WkZyVY13h8Y/s16...

Your Bing...

http://olfactoria.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/cherries.jpg

Raniers...

http://jillfit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cherries.jpg

Etc., etc.

Lemons? Sour, treacherous things!

Bizzaria lemon...

http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/citrusvarieties/lemonbizzarriafruit2010.jpg

Shiranui...

http://nvdmc.org/images/shiranui.png

Eureka...

http://greenlifeinsocal.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/2010-10-25-022-eureka-lem...

Pinks...

http://www.spadespatula.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/pink-lemons.jpg

Meyer...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Meyer-lemon-ripe.jpg

Etc., etc.

Oh no. Pink limes anyone?

http://www.spadespatula.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/bloodlimes.jpg

(Australian Blood Limes)



And Jack, "cerulean" isn't affected. It's just that half the Outside Magazine audience would need to fetch a dictionary to figure out what you meant. Easier for the editor to label your style as "affected" than his customers as "uneducated" or "uninformed". On the other hand, most of us here on CN wouldn't know a carbiner from a crampon. It's an audience thing.

Also, how many Pulitzers have either Strunk or White won? The appropriate literary style depends more on the subject matter and the audience than any trite "rules" targeted at academics rather than authors or readers.

It's also hardly an either-or proposition. It is possible to use powerful adjectives and adverbs together with powerful nouns and verbs. "When corpulent and prideful Victoria reigned magnanimously."

- Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (11/27/13 06:36 PM)


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mountain monk
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Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #6220061 - 11/27/13 06:42 PM

Hah. Wonderful list! Instead of orange, how about fuyu?!

Re Strunk & White: I thought you were the guy who found lists useful.

But yes, the best way to learn to write prose is to read great writers, and I think dear old Smyth would have benefited (assuming it possible) from a dose of Hemingway, Fitzgerald, or Salter. But then Hass, who keeps it simple, still has "brilliant citrus orange" for Albireo. Really? Fuyu, me thinks. I think I'll start my own list. Leek green, cabbage purple, rutabaga cream… What great sport.

Dark skies.

Jack


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: mountain monk]
      #6220303 - 11/27/13 09:05 PM

"Having already stated the why and the wherefore of
the question elsewhere, it only remains to show the ne-
cessity of acting in concert, and on a settled plan, so as
to obtain a more exact nomenclature in Chroma. Our
having noted the colours from fruits, flowers, vegetables,
jewels, and the like, involves conflicting uncertainty,
since most of those objects are of various tints. Indeed,
as a proof of the imperfection of such comparisons, I
will here cite a sample from my own practice, placing
the inexact epithets which I have used in Roman print,
and what was probably meant is expressed in Italics :

Amethyst . . . Purple

Apple green . . . Brownish green

Ash colour . . . Pale dull grey

Beet hue . . .Crimson

Cinereous . . . Wood-ash tint

Cherry-colour . . .Pale red

Cobalt .... Bluish white

Creamy .... Pale white

Crocus . . . Deep yellow

Damson . . Dark purple

Dusky . . . Brownish hue

Emerald .... Lucid green

Fawn-coloured ... Whitey-brown

Flushed .... Reddened

Garnet .... Red of various shades

Golden hue . . . Bright yellow

Grape red . . . A variety of purple

Jacinth .... Pellucid orange tint

Lemon-coloured . . Bright but pale yellow

Lilac . . . . Light purple

Livid .... Lead colour

Melon tint . . . Greenish yellow

Orpiment . . . Bright yellow

Pale .... Deficient in hue

Pearl colour . . . Shining white

Plum colour . . . Pale purple

Radish tint . . . Dull purple

Rose tint . . . Flushed crimson

Ruby colour . . . Pellucid red

Ruddy . . . . Flesh-coloured

Sapphire . . . Blue tint

Sardonyx . . . Reddish yellow

Sea green . . . Faint cold green

Silvery .... Mild white lustre

Smalt .... Fine deep blue

Topaz .... Lucid yellow

Vanilla tint . . . Dark brown or chocolate"

Know who that is? Yup. Admiral Smyth!

I'm gonna find me a sardonyx and orpiment pair. Just out of spite.

- Jim


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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #6220620 - 11/28/13 12:59 AM

OK, Admiral. I spent fifty years walking up Garnet Canyon in the Teton Range, and I can tell you that the place is brimming with garnets. Oodles of them. Problem is…they are all black. And, counsel, a brief glance at Wiki will inform you and the Admiral that garnets also come in orange, yellow, green, purple, brown, blue, pink, and…(closing argument)…COLORLESS!

May I make a modest suggestion: Perhaps it would be best to stick with the primaries--red, yellow, and blue--and the secondaries--green, purple, and orange. Anything more leads to obfuscation. But then…how boring.

Dark skies.

Jack



Edited by mountain monk (11/28/13 01:02 AM)


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Bill Boublitz
super member


Reged: 05/04/13

Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #6220660 - 11/28/13 01:54 AM

One who dares to claim seeing through another's eyes is.... What shall I say?... [The "Lords of Moderation" would not permit the term.]

Who among us can claim that what I call red is what another sees as red? We might agree on the experience and amicably agree to call it red, but the experience remains an individual one. My Father is color-blind. He can't match a shirt and tie, but he can see festoons on Jupiter, as well as remarkable detail in the "Red" spot... Um... I mean, "The Great Pink Spot"... No... that should be; "The Great Salmon Spot." Actually; "The Great Brown Spot." [BTW; I heard it turned "Orange" this year.... some Bozos claim Tangerine... but what do they know? :]

In the interest of science (and science's true purpose; "enlightenment"), perhaps we should cast aside the entire concept of the "individual." Instead, we might reduce the individual and individual experience to more quantifiable concepts. This would provide us with real data, real science, real truth; real enlightenment. Hence;

Was it Black or White? Was it One or Zero? Was it On or Off? Did it Hurt or Not? The future of the Technologists is such a promising one...

History has repeatedly demonstrated; the human condition is most often shaped by the unforeseen individual. Personally, I can deal with Lilac. At least until humans can quantify ourselves. Otherwise, our science is equivalent to that of Spiders.

Signed,

~ One more lunatic who has actually seen Lilac stars, even though he knows it not likely possible. Good wishes, All!


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David Gray
sage
*****

Reged: 08/06/12

Loc: Co. Durham UK
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Bill Boublitz]
      #6220772 - 11/28/13 06:07 AM Attachment (8 downloads)

Lilac stars: Some doubles get me with this, Lambda Ori B in particular. With regard to the thread on 42 Ori I was inspired to grab a look recently and with the 16.3” D-K I thought it, colour-wise, as like a closer fainter Lambda Ori!

I pride myself that in the main I get doubles’ hues pretty close to their respective spectral types, But in some cases I get a more coolish-pink (lilac?) hue such as Delta Cyg B, Gamma Cet B (A slightly bluish); and STT 111 B (close N. of Lambda Ori) I got an intense impression of pink with my 10” Newt. (1960s), and still do with the D-K.

I have at times given way to looser colour assigning (see my Nova Del thread) http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6121757/page... “buttercup yellow” “peach” etc.

With Jupiter I have called the NEB cinnamon fairly recently; but 50 years as a baker I have seen cinnamon in many shades. With Callisto in transit: likened it to dark chocolate. We thus get on dodgy ground but I feel it’s ok if not overdone

Bananas: again many shades but I guess most of us bracket it fairly narrowly/similarly. I use Corel Draw/Photo Paint a lot for colour rendering and simply use the default RGB palette for this; but it has many “Custom Palettes” including one for bananas…… – see attached. In fact I prefer bananas that are of a canary yellow hue……

David.


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VanJan
sage
*****

Reged: 07/09/08

Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #6220777 - 11/28/13 06:16 AM

Quote:



I'm gonna find me a sardonyx and orpiment pair. Just out of spite.




And if I ever find a TARDIS Blue and Ginger pair, I know I'll be seeing the Doctor soon . . .


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Bill Boublitz]
      #6221095 - 11/28/13 10:37 AM

The thing is, the subjective experience of "red" is immaterial so long as each of us viewing a red color sample recognize it as red, even if we switched eyes and saw that hue as radically different things. That is, so long as what the eye sees and what the color sample shows are identified by each as the same, no matter whose eyes are in whose heads, all is well. Where problems arise is when we both look at a very green pine tree and one of us calls it orange while the other proclaims it green. There we have either a misunderstanding of language, an instance of abnormal physiology or someone having a bit of fun in jest. If the orange seer also saw the green color sample as orange, it's a problem of either language or biology. If he sees the sample as green, he's a joker.

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: SusanY]
      #6221101 - 11/28/13 10:38 AM

Yep. "Fulvous" even sounds vaguely insulting.

- Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: mountain monk]
      #6221108 - 11/28/13 10:43 AM

Lists, yes. Strunk and White, no.



- Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (11/28/13 11:13 PM)


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #6221335 - 11/28/13 12:29 PM

The GRS looked to have a brilliant and flowery fulvous color as observed by me under sultry, pitch black, and very calm skies last night when the moon was not up. <yawn>

Get the book.


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SusanY
super member


Reged: 02/05/13

Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6221486 - 11/28/13 01:29 PM

Quote:

The GRS looked to have a brilliant and flowery fulvous color as observed by me under sultry, pitch black, and very calm skies last night when the moon was not up.




Fulvous? That's interesting, looked a little more flavous to me.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: SusanY]
      #6221501 - 11/28/13 01:34 PM

I make it as "rubicund-salmon" bordering on "castaneous-cinnabar". But each to his or her own, I suppose.

- Jim


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David Castillo
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/09/06

Loc: Carmel Valley, Ca
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #6222173 - 11/28/13 07:05 PM

In the keen, perceptive eye of the spectrophile, the Sun's black absorption lines of hydrogen become that point at which one senses a distinctly presented, ebony demarcation denoting an attenuation of a singular frequency of light in the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum...ever so obvious bands that segregate the many rich hues of the rainbow.
-----
Dave


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: David Castillo]
      #6222410 - 11/28/13 09:50 PM

Quote:

Fulvous? That's interesting, looked a little more flavous to me.



Therein lay the dilemma, have to look them up. To me, it looked a little more like an ochre anticyclone spinning among brownish clouds and easterly gale winds driving the southern belt. It stood out like a cheeto fragment stuck on a fat man's tan face with a swirl of vanilla icing pursuing it.


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azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6222716 - 11/29/13 01:58 AM

How about applying emotionally expressive terms to doubles: love and promise was the primary while its companion was depressed and with a shade of envy?



Pete


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azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: David Gray]
      #6222724 - 11/29/13 02:02 AM

David,

I HAVE seen the dark chocolate of Callisto - it was a near occulting of another moon some years back - I think Europa - when they were nearly touching (but did not) that shade of brown was seen mixed in with the white that comprised most of the light that I saw. When the moons get that close the colors can be quite apparent. But back to doubles now...

Pete


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David Gray
sage
*****

Reged: 08/06/12

Loc: Co. Durham UK
Re: "Flowery" Color Terms for Double Star Descriptions new [Re: azure1961p]
      #6222783 - 11/29/13 03:39 AM

Pete,

Yes must stick to doubles!

But one term I would not have thought of is what my artistically gifted mother used when she saw Comet Bennett in 1970 with the12x65s. She called it "Smokey Candle Yellow"; it might strike as a little absurd but her meaning did convey to me perfectly!


Leaving the Solar System....

David.


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