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Observing >> Double Star Observing

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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: Ed D]
      #5607977 - 01/06/13 09:50 AM

Well done, Ed.

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fred1871
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/22/09

Loc: Australia
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: Ed D]
      #5609176 - 01/06/13 08:24 PM

Very nice sketch, Ed. And the colours match up with the spectral types of the stars, K3 and B3. Nice colour difference/contrast when the pair shows itself.

As you've noted, the seeing is a big factor - it must have been very good the second night for the 6-inch to show it with the more moderate magnifications you list. And good optics.


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Catapoman
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 06/06/03

Loc: VA
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: fred1871]
      #5609195 - 01/06/13 08:35 PM

I just came in from observing this double with my TEC-140. It's nearly directly overhead at my location during this observation. I was able to split this double at magnifications of 163x, 196x and 280x. It was easiest at 280x. I tried at 140x, but can't say for certain I was seeing the secondary. I estimate the PA at around 180* +/- 5. Seeing conditions were marginal and quickly turned poor just after my observation. I'll try again on Monday with predicted better seeing.

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EJN
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/01/05

Loc: 53 miles west of Venus
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: Catapoman]
      #5609216 - 01/06/13 08:51 PM

I tried it Thursday & Friday night with an 8" f/5 Newtonian, but seeing was too poor.

Tonight, it is easy at 160x in the 8", companion star is definitely blueish.


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: EJN]
      #5609292 - 01/06/13 09:46 PM



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aa6ww
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Reged: 10/23/11

Loc: Sacramento, Calif.
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: Darren Drake]
      #5609433 - 01/06/13 11:10 PM Attachment (26 downloads)

Quote:

Last night I noticed that a 6th mag star posing as a 5th Jovian moon is actually a challenging red double star. According to Skysafari Pro it a 5.9 and 8.5 mag double with a sep of 2.0 arcseconds. It took the 16 LB to split it last night in okay seeing. The 8 and 12 inchers were not doing it by the time I realized it was a double on the phone Jupiter was above my house and seeing was down but the Lightbridge was in the front yard and seeing was better there. The star is HR 1370.




This double was brought to my attention tonight so I thought Id give it a shot since it finally stopped raining and appears to be clear now.
At 400x, its in and out at best, definately more out than in. The seeing is suppose to improve in an hr or so based on the CSC so well see how that works out. right now the seeing is just 2/5 and the primary red star is blurring in and out and just periodically settles down. I ran out of eyepieces on my TOA-130, I was using my 2.5 Nagler which got me to 400x. I needed this much magnification to pull the secondary star far enough away from the main stars blur. I went with the 3.5 Nagler and barlow, (570x) and the split was easier to see. It's still pulsing in and out because of the seeing, but I can see the tiny light blue secondary star beside the larger red one in a 3:OClock position from the main star, at least based on how my diagonal is positioned in my scope where the eyepiece is pointing north. The configuration is exactly as the photo I posted shows. Even at my 14mm initial eyepiece at 70x, the red primary star is definitely obvious. A rock solid polar alignment and micro focusing are both crucial to get this all to work.


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Darren Drake
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Reged: 10/09/02

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Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: aa6ww]
      #5609548 - 01/07/13 12:52 AM

Tonight some friends and I split it with 3 8 inch scopes but the 16 lightbridge really split it well and revealed that the fainter companion is quite blue. So this is like the ultra challenging version of Alberio....

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aa6ww
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/23/11

Loc: Sacramento, Calif.
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: Darren Drake]
      #5609622 - 01/07/13 03:12 AM

The seeing conditions really cleaned up and all the blurring and pulsing viewed became very crisp after all for me. I just couldn't get what I could consider a satisfactory split with my 3.5 Nag in my TOA-130, and but the 2.5 Nagler at 400x was excellent and was even showing some out of focus detraction rings.It was still a very small split for a 5" scope, but very clean with jet black skies after all. The transit of Jupiter was also excellent and very sharp showing much more details than the seeing conditions were suppose to give me. It felt more like 4/5 for seeing than 3/5. Pretty fun for a quick few hrs on the patio!!

...Ralph


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desertrefugee
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Reged: 08/06/07

Loc: Arizona
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: aa6ww]
      #5609795 - 01/07/13 09:12 AM

Pretty much what I saw (as described above) with an ES ED127 and Nagler
3-6 zoom.


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ATM57
sage


Reged: 01/01/10

Loc: Tehachapi, CA
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: Darren Drake]
      #5610344 - 01/07/13 02:37 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

Clean split the star at 170x with my Celestron C6R. Nice view. Went to 240x to comfirm. The secondary is "delicate" and can dissappear under less than steady seeing. The attached image is a simulated (cropped) view at high power (300x).

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azure1961p
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Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: ATM57]
      #5610765 - 01/07/13 07:19 PM

ATM, very nice sim image. Thanks for the description!!!

Pete


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azure1961p
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Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: Ed D]
      #5611135 - 01/07/13 11:11 PM

Ed I agree 240x EXACTLY was the sweet spot. Nice rich rusty red orange star. My aperture showed the companion merely as grey. Not saying the blue others have seen was false but I couldn't budge a true color from it.
It was a terrific view - nice intermittent diffraction rings sharpening with clarity now and again. I tried high mag of 450x and. Like your experience it was too mushy. The 240x was much cleaner.

Satisfying to find that so close to an already great object!

Prte


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azure1961p
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Reged: 01/17/09

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Re: Challenging double near Jup *DELETED* new [Re: Ed D]
      #5611136 - 01/07/13 11:12 PM

Post deleted by RLTYS

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Patricko
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Reged: 01/30/07

Loc: USA
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5611312 - 01/08/13 02:18 AM

Got this double system tonight just before the clouds moved it. Seeing was 4/5 and Ganymede was resolved as a disk @400x with my C6 SCT. Primary appears orange, secondary garyish/blue, P.A. matches what I saw visually. A very easy find with Jupiter nearby. Had the clouds not been a factor with the steady seeing this double would be down right easy.

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larry7
member


Reged: 11/30/08

Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: Patricko]
      #5611748 - 01/08/13 11:06 AM

After reading all the posts concerning this double I decided to check it out last night. Using a Jaegers 6" F/8 OG at 175x and 245x split easily. Then used aperture stops to see what would be the minimun aperture for a clean split. At 100mm both 175x and 245x still nice split. At 89mm 175x was a no but 245x still there, not easy but the secondary clearly seen. At 76mm no split at 175x, 245x or 305x. Cool stuff.

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Darren Drake
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Reged: 10/09/02

Loc: Chicagoland
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: larry7]
      #5611792 - 01/08/13 11:37 AM

Thanks Larry that is exactly what I was looking for.

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Darren Drake
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Reged: 10/09/02

Loc: Chicagoland
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: Darren Drake]
      #5611848 - 01/08/13 12:20 PM

Acording to SkySafari Pro the spectral classes of the 2 stars is M0 for the brighter component and B3 for the dimmer one. This actually represents a higher color contrast than Alberio. So I wonder what aperture is needed to see this color contrast? Most smaller scopes than 8 inches or so aren't revealing this blue color but it sure was obvious in the 16 inch. Looks like this is the very challenging version of Alberio...

Edited by Darren Drake (01/08/13 12:21 PM)


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Cepheus Elf
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Reged: 08/01/10

Loc: Rainy, Cloudy Lancashire UK
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: Darren Drake]
      #5612471 - 01/08/13 06:33 PM

Failed to split this tonight with my 127 Mak but the seeing was about 6/10 and deteriorating. Nice rich orange star though...I bet it looks great when split!

Mick


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fred1871
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/22/09

Loc: Australia
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: Darren Drake]
      #5612502 - 01/08/13 06:49 PM

Interesting - Larry's notes indicate a new benchmark for this double - seen with only 89mm aperture (3.5-inches) at 245x; and at 175x with 100mm.

This suggests very good air steadiness and high visual acuity by Larry. Maybe the "small aperture" syndrome as well? Larry, feel free to add further information.

Darren - yes, it appears that 8-inch helps for seeing the companion as "blue" - at mag 8.6 that's not too surprising, though Ed D saw the colour in the secondary with his 6-inch Newtonian. I expect individual observers have different threshold points on star brightness, where colour is perceived vs the star looking grey ("ashy" was a term often used in the 19th century). It's the well-known phenomenon of "all cats are grey in the dark".


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Challenging double near Jup new [Re: fred1871]
      #5612736 - 01/08/13 09:13 PM

Yea, I did not notice the companion offering any color in a 6".

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