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starsoup
member


Reged: 06/21/08
Posts: 48
Loc: AR
Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser)
      #3409929 - 10/25/09 12:57 PM

Okay..I bought a house two years ago, and recently got back into astronomy. The back yard was the only place to do any kind of observing. The problem was the property is circled by trees. Except there is one big white oak on my land that blocked the southern view. This oak was about 60 feet tall and really hogged my sky.

So I had to do some thing.....Long story short I hired a tree removal company, actually it was two friends of mine and I got a really good deal on it , $300.00 to have tree cut down and the brush removed, the rest of it I gave away as firewood.

Anyway..

<Has anyone else ever cut down a large tree(s) so you could have access to the sky for using your telescope?>

It sure has opened up a whole new world in my backyard, even though the neighbors probably think I'm crazy for cutting down that tree, don't get me wrong I like trees but it had to go. Jupiter and the moon looked great last night btw.

Chris

--------------------
Orion Starblast 4.5 EQ
15mm Expanse
6mm Expanse
3x tri-mag Barlow

Orion 80mm Shortscope
Orion 32mm & 20mm plossl
10x50 Binoculars

(Past equipment, 1990's)
Celestar 8
10.1" Coulter Dob
Naglers:
16mm,12mm,9mm,4.8mm
Homemade 16" f/4 Dob.
(First telescope 1975, Jason 70mm..1-EP)

"In the beginning there was nothing.......which exploded!"

Edited by starsoup (10/25/09 01:03 PM)


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Andy Taylor
twistin' by the pool
*****

Reged: 09/24/08
Posts: 436
Loc: t=0 UK
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: starsoup]
      #3409955 - 10/25/09 01:15 PM

Yeah - a flippin' great cherry tree that overtook the whole garden.

Still too many trees but the rest are apple trees from the old orchard that the house was built on and they still crop wonderfully...

--------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Equipment list of shame:

A strange heap of assorted junk that when thrown together and dragged out into the dark shows me the wonders of the universe...

And then dews up...


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panhard
Mongo
*****

Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 5186
Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: starsoup]
      #3409971 - 10/25/09 01:27 PM

I hope you will plant another tree somewhere to help the environment of the planet. I don't have a problem with doing what you did. It would be good for all of us if you planted a tree somewhere else to replace what you removed.

--------------------



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starsoup
member


Reged: 06/21/08
Posts: 48
Loc: AR
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: panhard]
      #3410030 - 10/25/09 01:58 PM

I live in Arkansas...There's fricking more trees here then you could climb in a life time.
I knew I would probably PO a tree hugger. but I'll take that into consideration.

--------------------
Orion Starblast 4.5 EQ
15mm Expanse
6mm Expanse
3x tri-mag Barlow

Orion 80mm Shortscope
Orion 32mm & 20mm plossl
10x50 Binoculars

(Past equipment, 1990's)
Celestar 8
10.1" Coulter Dob
Naglers:
16mm,12mm,9mm,4.8mm
Homemade 16" f/4 Dob.
(First telescope 1975, Jason 70mm..1-EP)

"In the beginning there was nothing.......which exploded!"


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starrancher
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 577
Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: starsoup]
      #3410039 - 10/25/09 02:00 PM

Do we ride a bike or do we drive a car ?

--------------------
LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff


Fort Rock , Az .


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ebusinesstutor
sage


Reged: 07/01/09
Posts: 458
Loc: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: panhard]
      #3410041 - 10/25/09 02:01 PM

I know what you mean. I have a decent view to the south, but in the north, there are huge towering trees - sometimes I can't even see the Big Dipper.

And to the west, I have "mountain pollution."

--------------------
Garland Coulson
Orion XT8i Dob & Celestron 80 ED on a Vixen Porta Mount Mini
Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Click Zoom & Siebert Observatory 36mm
Siebert Black Knight Binoviewers
SkyWatcher Observing Chair
Celestron Skymaster 15x70mm binos


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Ray4852
sage


Reged: 09/30/08
Posts: 399
Loc: Arcade, NY
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: panhard]
      #3410084 - 10/25/09 02:15 PM

I agree. we have to protect our environment.

--------------------
Home Built 18 dobsonian
Panoptic 27mm
Tele vue 16mm 9mm naglers
Tele vue big barlow
Telrad and DSC
deepsky and skytools software


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Bob Griffiths
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 6556
Loc: Frederick Maryland
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: Ray4852]
      #3410226 - 10/25/09 03:24 PM

I cut down a very tall Maple (guess 80 or so foot tall with a trunk a little more then 4 foot diameter) ... BIG sucker But I did not cut it down to get a better view of the sky...I cut it down because it was the only place I could build my observatory...and BTW the estimate I got for over $2000.00 to cut it down ...found a guy who did it for $800 but it took him 3 months on the weekends... !!!

Then last year my nice little old (I am in my mid 60's so I know old) widow neighbor of 40 some years had one of her monster trees cut down...Tree was about the same as My Maple probably planted at about the same time .

I asked her why and she said it was to close to her house and she was afraid it may fall and damage the place !!!! BUT I think she did it because she knew it restricted my view a little and to thank me for cutting her grass the last 2 years when it became too much work for her to do...

Good neighbors may be hard to find BUT I've got a great one....

Bob G.

--------------------
CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
Gerbring Heated Motorcycle clothing in the winter

39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W

The sky over my head....



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revans
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1513
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: Bob Griffiths]
      #3410395 - 10/25/09 04:34 PM

I love my maple and put up with it obstructing my view for years until it started to scrape against my slate roof... couldn't afford another slate roof so the tree had to go But now that its done, the sky views are really great

--------------------
Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/

"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei



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starsoup
member


Reged: 06/21/08
Posts: 48
Loc: AR
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: revans]
      #3410476 - 10/25/09 05:14 PM

Yeah same here ...We get ice storms from time to time and they can leave your favorite tree crashing into the roof of your home causing much distuction...I don't want that kind of drama, I prefer the quite skies I have now.
Clear Skies!

--------------------
Orion Starblast 4.5 EQ
15mm Expanse
6mm Expanse
3x tri-mag Barlow

Orion 80mm Shortscope
Orion 32mm & 20mm plossl
10x50 Binoculars

(Past equipment, 1990's)
Celestar 8
10.1" Coulter Dob
Naglers:
16mm,12mm,9mm,4.8mm
Homemade 16" f/4 Dob.
(First telescope 1975, Jason 70mm..1-EP)

"In the beginning there was nothing.......which exploded!"


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b1gred
Enginerd
*****

Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 15711
Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obs new [Re: starsoup]
      #3410501 - 10/25/09 05:33 PM

I'm not a "tree hugger", and I realize there are a lot of legitimate reasons to remove a healthy tree - impinging on power lines, posing a threat to a house (although trimming helps in both of those cases), etc. But I think it's kind of sad to cut down a healthy tree - a living thing that helps purify the air and provide a home for other living things, just so we're not inconvenienced when we occasionally want to glance at the stars, which are visible from almost anywhere.

--------------------
"Dark Skies & Great Viewing"

RandyR / W0RDR
GPS 9.25 XLT/Sky Align /FeatherTouch
TV85 w/FeatherTouch





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nyc_nurse
sage


Reged: 07/29/09
Posts: 253
Loc: nyc
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obs new [Re: starsoup]
      #3410510 - 10/25/09 05:38 PM

You sure got a good price for cutting it down. When I lived in California they routinely charge $10k to cut and another $5k to remove from site. It's too bad you couldn't end up using the wood for furniture. Oak that tall probably had a good trunk width.

I love trees (would describe myself as an eco-nut) but have known people's homes get pretty busted up by them in storms. Only thing better than a great big oak in the front lawn is a great big oak that's far enough away not to come crashing down on your roof.

--------------------
Sam P.
www.agirlandaguy.blogspot.com

Pentax 7X50
TV-102 APO w/ (Starbeam - on backorder )
Ash Gibraltar w/ SkyTour DSC
NZ3-6, N9T6, N13T6
TV 20 Plossl
Pan 24, 35
Pentax XW10, XW14


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starsoup
member


Reged: 06/21/08
Posts: 48
Loc: AR
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: starrancher]
      #3410543 - 10/25/09 06:05 PM

I drive a Chevy pick up, with the 350 engine...that's 8 cylinders. Why you ask?

--------------------
Orion Starblast 4.5 EQ
15mm Expanse
6mm Expanse
3x tri-mag Barlow

Orion 80mm Shortscope
Orion 32mm & 20mm plossl
10x50 Binoculars

(Past equipment, 1990's)
Celestar 8
10.1" Coulter Dob
Naglers:
16mm,12mm,9mm,4.8mm
Homemade 16" f/4 Dob.
(First telescope 1975, Jason 70mm..1-EP)

"In the beginning there was nothing.......which exploded!"


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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3452
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obs new [Re: b1gred]
      #3410557 - 10/25/09 06:16 PM

Quote:

I think it's kind of sad to cut down a healthy tree - a living thing that helps purify the air and provide a home for other living things, just so we're not inconvenienced when we occasionally want to glance at the stars, which are visible from almost anywhere.




Easy for you to say, living in Colorado! Here in the Northeast, the stars would be totally invisible if people didn't cut down trees, except along the edges of bodies of water. There are no natural clearings in the East, except swamps and a handful of mountaintops.

I don't cut down trees lightly, especially big, well-established ones. But when there's good reason to do so, I don't hesitate. For every tree I cut down, dozens are growing to take its place.

--------------------
Tony Flanders

First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.


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panhard
Mongo
*****

Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 5186
Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: starsoup]
      #3410587 - 10/25/09 06:41 PM

Don't get so riled up. I am not a tree hugger but we are in enough trouble with our atmosphere as it is. Every little bit helps. The effect your nearby trees have affect on us as a whole.My suggestion was one that is catching on world wide. We can't take, take, take without giving back a little at least. I by no means meant to offend you & I don't want this thread to go south like others have. Lets have respect for each other.

--------------------



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brianb11213
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/25/09
Posts: 2078
Loc: 55.215N 6.554W
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: panhard]
      #3410664 - 10/25/09 07:38 PM

Quote:

Every little bit helps. The effect your nearby trees have affect us as a whole.My suggestion was one that is catching on world wide.



I agree absolutely. Trees have a natural life span anyway, they can't be preserved forever - in a natural forest, every tree will eventually fall and be replaced by a new one.

Just don't replace a slow-growing native tree with a fast-growing non-native variety, like the leylandii that some people use to create a barrier, which then rapidly bolt to 80 feet or more ... sucking the life out of the soil all around in the process.


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starrancher
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 577
Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: panhard]
      #3410745 - 10/25/09 08:27 PM

Quote:

Don't get so riled up. I am not a tree hugger but we are in enough trouble with our atmosphere as it is. Every little bit helps. The effect your nearby trees have affect us as a whole.My suggestion was one that is catching on world wide. We can't take, take, take without giving back a little at least. I by no means meant to offend you & I don't want this thread to go south like others have. Lets have respect for each other.




I would think that a more beneficial move would be to synchronize traffic lights & improve the roadway infrastructure so as traffic could move in an efficient manor .
I sit at intersections where 40 cars are waiting at a red light & the light that is green has no cars coming . (Brilliant) At the cost of multiple 6 figures per intersection to install sensors , why is this happening ? I guess the programmers that make 6 figure salaries to set them up are just doin' a bang up job !
How about the freeway system where people commute back & forth to work for 50 or so miles & can't get out of first or second gear due to gridlock ?
We talk about fuel consumption & fuel efficiency banging on the self destructed American auto industry , but nobody's cars get good mileage in first gear or sitting idle at a poorly designed traffic light setup . How about addressing the root of the problem , (pardon the pun) , but this would make a much larger difference than the odd saving of a tree here & there .
BTW , I put up with triple digit temps all summer long & never turned my central or otherwise air conditioning on once .
I did my part , what say you ? .............

--------------------
LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff


Fort Rock , Az .


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b1gred
Enginerd
*****

Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 15711
Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obs new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #3410909 - 10/25/09 09:55 PM

Quote:


Easy for you to say, living in Colorado! Here in the Northeast, the stars would be totally invisible if people didn't cut down trees, except along the edges of bodies of water. There are no natural clearings in the East, except swamps and a handful of mountaintops.

I don't cut down trees lightly, especially big, well-established ones. But when there's good reason to do so, I don't hesitate. For every tree I cut down, dozens are growing to take its place.




My view of the sky from my own back yard is pretty severely impeded by trees. I'm sorry that your uninformed impression of where I live leads you to believe I'm either at a mountain top or in a treeless high desert.

I would never consider removing a tree as a remedy for an inconvenience. When I decide to observe, I either deal with the trees, or take my equipment where I can see the desired part of the sky. I sure don't kill a healthy tree that's taken dozens of years to grow to resolve an inconvenience.

--------------------
"Dark Skies & Great Viewing"

RandyR / W0RDR
GPS 9.25 XLT/Sky Align /FeatherTouch
TV85 w/FeatherTouch





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starrancher
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 577
Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: starsoup]
      #3410969 - 10/25/09 10:39 PM

Quote:

I drive a Chevy pick up, with the 350 engine...that's 8 cylinders. Why you ask?




The question would be more directed to the tree hugger type that may not be broad minded enough to take a look at the bigger picture .
Do we use "Swiffer" mops with a throw away pad or convenient microwavable dinners that are packaged with an abundant amount of garbage that goes into the landfill .
These are all part of the bigger picture & I feel that there are more than a few who will condemn for a green cause while in other aspects probably have a larger carbon footprint than their narrow minded thinking allows them to realize .
Do we heat up hot tubs on a regular basis ? Do we heat our homes to above 68 degree temperatures in the winter & do we cool them to below 78 degrees in the summer ? Do we buy drinks in a styrofoam cup , eat at fast food places where an over abundance of paper is used just for a hamburger , fries & a Coke ? Do we have more lights on in the house with larger than needed wattage ratings or run a 52" wide screen plasma television set ?
A cut down tree can be mulched & put to good use & it can be burned for warmth in place of a non replenishable fuel source .
Do we all recycle ?
I live on a courtyard street with 14 houses & I can tell you that I am the only one of fourteen that deposits the recyclable material diligently into the proper reclamation container . I see more recyclable material going to the landfill due to careless residents than you can shake a stick at .
All I am saying is that there is a lot more to preserving the environment than saving a tree !

--------------------
LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff


Fort Rock , Az .


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panhard
Mongo
*****

Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 5186
Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: starrancher]
      #3411191 - 10/26/09 01:38 AM

I honestly feel that the reason more items do not make it to the recycle bin is that it takes time and effort to do it. What we do today will impact our future generations. We will be gone before the real impact is felt. I recycle everything that they will take. Yes there is a lot more to it than just saving a tree. Five years ago I was more wasteful in many ways. If an old goat like me can change others can also. Cutting back on my speed when driving gets me much better mileage. I used to drive at 75mph or better. Now I do under the speed limit by a couple of mph and stick to the right lane.

--------------------



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Ptarmigan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 2350
Loc: Arctic
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: starsoup]
      #3411194 - 10/26/09 01:39 AM

I have a lot of trees where I am. Blocks objects I want to see. I worry if a hurricane or tornado comes, they fall on houses and injure people.

--------------------
Ptarmigans=Cute and Cuddly
Meade Starfinder 8
Nikon 10x50
Rebel XT

Edited by Ptarmigan (10/26/09 01:40 AM)


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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3452
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obs new [Re: b1gred]
      #3411303 - 10/26/09 05:19 AM

Quote:


My view of the sky from my own back yard is pretty severely impeded by trees. I'm sorry that your uninformed impression of where I live leads you to believe I'm either at a mountain top or in a treeless high desert.




That's not the point. Your statement about stars being visible almost everywhere is intuitively correct in a state that's mostly grassland, desert, and alpine terrain. (Not to underestimate the extent of those vast lodgepole forest; I know all about them, too.) If you can't see stars from your backyard, you have innumerable other options.

But when I look for good observing spots at dark sites in the Northeast, trees are my biggest problem by far. Basically, the stars are only visible where people have been active, cutting down trees. Wilderness is unusable -- end of story.

Quote:

I would never consider removing a tree as a remedy for an inconvenience. When I decide to observe, I either deal with the trees, or take my equipment where I can see the desired part of the sky. I sure don't kill a healthy tree that's taken dozens of years to grow to resolve an inconvenience.




Odd! Then again, I heat my country home primarily with wood, so no tree that I cut down is ever wasted. And I would never cut trees in excess of what I can burn.

--------------------
Tony Flanders

First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.


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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3452
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: starsoup]
      #3411505 - 10/26/09 09:27 AM

I was curious about the carbon calculus for cutting down trees. I don't think that's the only consideration when making the decision -- probably not even the main one. But it's worth bearing in mind.

A Google search for "tree sequestration" yielded this site, which says that you can estimate the weight of a tree as:

W = 0.15 * D^2 * H, where

W is weight in pounds
D is diameter in inches
H is height in feet

They further estimate that about 1/3 the weight of green wood is carbon.

I'd say that a typical big hardwood -- not giant, but very substantial -- is 14 inches in diameter and 60 feet tall. A sugar maple that gets plenty of sunlight probably takes about 80 years to reach that size. This is close to the biggest tree that I feel completely comfortable cutting down with my own chainsaw; when trees get 18 inches or bigger, they need a bigger blade, and they get really scary (to me). I probably average one or two trees that size per year, yielding about a cord of firewood.

According to the website cited above, such a tree contains about 600 pounds of carbon. Gasoline has about 5.3 pounds of carbon per gallon, so cutting down a tree that size and not replacing it by another is equivalent to using 110 gallons of gasoline. That's 2,750 miles at the 25 mpg that I can now eke out of my 15-year-old car.

--------------------
Tony Flanders

First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.


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Thomas44
super member


Reged: 10/26/09
Posts: 101
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obs new [Re: panhard]
      #3413580 - 10/27/09 08:27 AM

Quote:

I hope you will plant another tree somewhere to help the environment of the planet. I don't have a problem with doing what you did. It would be good for all of us if you planted a tree somewhere else to replace what you removed.




Right you are. Trees are so important. It does help in many ways.

--------------------
www.redlaser.co.uk

Edited by Thomas44 (10/27/09 08:29 AM)


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kroum
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/28/08
Posts: 626
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #3424933 - 11/02/09 03:05 AM

Tony, that doesn't include all the leaves that tree ever had.

--------------------
10in Hardin Optical Dob
100mm f6 Orion Achromat
6in Orion Short Tube Reflector
15X70 Barska Binoculars

32mm Astrola (Boo!)
25mm, 12.5mm Sterling Plossls
20mm Orion Expanse
9mm Hardin (GSO) Plossl
7.5mm Orion Ultrascopic
Ultima 2X shorty barlow

Turn on, tune in, and look through the eyepiece.


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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3452
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: kroum]
      #3424996 - 11/02/09 05:34 AM

Quote:

Tony, that doesn't include all the leaves that tree ever had.




My calculation omits many important factors. For instance, burning that tree means that I burn less propane, which should be subtracted from the tree's carbon account. The carbon produced by burning gasoline in my car neglects the energy that went into producing the car in the first place, which is probably a sizeable fraction of its lifetime energy consumption.

As for the leaves, insofar as they end up in the soil, their carbon is removed from the atmosphere. But a good fraction of them decay and re-release that carbon -- some of it in the form of particularly noxious methane.

More to the point, when the tree is cut, grass and shrubs take its place. And they sequester carbon (and produce soil) too.

The crude calculation is good enough for my purposes.

--------------------
Tony Flanders

First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.


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HellsKitchen
sage


Reged: 09/05/08
Posts: 356
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: panhard]
      #3425008 - 11/02/09 06:08 AM

If I had a tree problem, they'd be getting a date with Mr Chainsaw. Don't care for greenies and tree huggers and their inevitable tears, guilt tripping etc...my backyard my business.

--------------------
S 38º 00' E 145º20'

Custom 12" F/4.6 dob
10" GSO dob
Intes M500 Mak
4.5" Meade Newtonian
Set of Vixen LVWs + TV barlows + powermates
Astronomik 0III, UHC, H-beta filters



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JayinUT
I'm not Sleepy
*****

Reged: 09/19/08
Posts: 940
Loc: Utah
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: HellsKitchen]
      #3425149 - 11/02/09 09:11 AM

Just moved to a new house and in the backyard there are three cement pads. My wife calls them pads 1, 2 and 3. Pad 2, the central one has a young maple the previous owners had planted. I can remove it myself easily, trim it so it doesn't obstruct the sky (putting off the inevitable) or move off the pad and into the grass. My choice, take it down and plant a new tree along the back fence which is next to a public walking path. I'll also choose a tree that is limited in height so I won't face this problem again. Solves a couple of problems.

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Jay in Utah
---------------------------
Location: Lat: 40.514N Long: -112.032W

Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.
— Ptolemy, c.150 AD



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oldtimer
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: starsoup]
      #3425332 - 11/02/09 11:29 AM

Two stories:

Story 1

"A group of amateurs I know made several trips a year to a pretty dark sky site in NW Illinois. It was a state park that had a couple of camp sites that were relatively treeless. About 10 years ago the ranger began planting trees all over these sites. The astronomers beged him not too explaining their use of these sites for astronomy. The ranger replied stating that it was a forest preserve and needed trees. They even explained to him that Illinois was orginally praire land. It did no good and now the trees are so large the site cannot be used any more.

Story 2

In the 1960's a 16 F8 newt with EQ mount and dome was donated to a Jr college in central Illinois. It saw service for about 10 years then funding and trained/interested staff dried up. The pine and other trees were allowed to grow very tall and now there is only a 'silo' view overhead. The scope sits unused.


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kroum
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: HellsKitchen]
      #3425408 - 11/02/09 12:17 PM

Quote:

If I had a tree problem, they'd be getting a date with Mr Chainsaw. Don't care for greenies and tree huggers and their inevitable tears, guilt tripping etc...my backyard my business.




So naturally, none of you guys with this oppinion would mind if your next door neighbor installed flood lights and pointed them at your observing site His backyard, his business.

--------------------
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Tom Polakis
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: kroum]
      #3425685 - 11/02/09 03:06 PM

What a delightful thread. I have to admit that one of the criteria for selection of my house back in 1993 was minimal light trespass. Before I even made an offer, I recognized that I would have a decent view of the entire sky from a spot that was occupied by a giant, mature grapefruit tree. So I knew what had to be done.

During my fist month in the house, I took every night of a week to remove the tree. I didn't get a perverse thrill out of chopping down a tree, but I don't feel any shame about it, either.

Since 1993, I have observed near the submerged stump of that tree more than 1000 nights. Backyard astronomy is the best, even under a magnitude-4.5 sky.

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Tom Polakis
Tempe, AZ
Visual observing, DSLR photography, lunar & planetary imaging
http://www.pbase.com/polakis/


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earthbot1
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: Tom Polakis]
      #3425877 - 11/02/09 04:58 PM

Trees can also block light pollution. I have a few young trees coming up naturally, so I need to decide now which will stay or go. I like trees very much and there are tons of them in Virginia. I think many of them near me help catch the city lights so it is not so bad at my house.

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Meade/Celestron EPs
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mich_al
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: earthbot1]
      #3427114 - 11/03/09 10:16 AM

Closest thing I've seen to a flame war on this site.
Your trees are your business but personally there aren't many things that would make me cut down a healthy tree. My house has lots of trees and every year I plant dozens more.


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Cygnus_x1
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: mich_al]
      #3427656 - 11/03/09 03:08 PM

We are bordered by a load of oak trees, the remnants of a wood before some nearby houses were built in it around 25 years ago (the wood was not completely cut down, just the centre removed to accommodate these ten or so houses). They do obscure my northern and eastern skies somewhat, but I can live with that as they also obscure any light pollution from the neighbour's house plus they mean we get lots of different birds and animals and I like that.

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Visual Deep Sky Observing - being rebuilt
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JayinUT
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: mich_al]
      #3427737 - 11/03/09 03:49 PM

Just got in from trimming that tree . . . it doesn't harm the view to the west YET. When that day comes, out it goes. I did planet the same maple also today in another part of the yard that doesn't impact my viewing.

--------------------
Jay in Utah
---------------------------
Location: Lat: 40.514N Long: -112.032W

Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.
— Ptolemy, c.150 AD



My Blog


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Footbag
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Reged: 04/13/09
Posts: 459
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: JayinUT]
      #3427758 - 11/03/09 03:59 PM

I just payed $1500 to have a bunch of tree work done. I didn't do it primarily for observing, but it was always in the back of my mind. My biggest concern was having them fall on my house or car and they were huge trees.

I had a huge dead oak tree removed and another huge half dead tree trimmed back. Then I had a bunch of invasive trees removed because the were blocking Polaris.

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Adam

Celestron CPC 800, Celestron HD Wedge
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Matt Lindsey
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obs new [Re: Footbag]
      #3428422 - 11/03/09 11:15 PM

I'm reading "The Georgian Star" by Michael D. Lemonick on William and Caroline Herschel. Apparently after moving to a new property to construct his largest scope, Herschel did a little tree hacking of his own. As the former property owner, Mrs. Papendieck, observed: "his first step, to the grief of everyone who knew the sweet spot, was to cut down every tree, so that there should be no impediment to his observations of the heavenly bodies."

--------------------
Matt
12" f/4.9 custom strut Dob.
8x56 binos
Member: Howard Astronomical League
Working on: Herschel I and II lists, RASC challenge objects.


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Tony Flanders
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: starsoup]
      #3430442 - 11/05/09 05:30 AM

This thread inspired me to write a blog on the subject on the Sky & Telescope website.

--------------------
Tony Flanders

First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.


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lightfever
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #3430994 - 11/05/09 12:37 PM

Just need to strike a balance between trees and open space. Plenty of trees here in Michigan and the loss of open fields is somewhat a problem. Areas that were open when I was young are now overgrown. Within a 1 mile radius around our home in the northern part of the state there is only 1 place clear enough to observe. I like trees but don't understand the need to preserve every one of them. Like all living things they grow then die and another grows to take it's place. If a tree is blocking my view and I have no other option I will cut it down.

--------------------
Mark
Tasco 15-TE 76mm
Sky Watcher 80mm ED
AT-111 Triplet
XT8i (with Woden re-figured mirror)
Discovery 12.5" f/5 Premium DHQ (PDHQ Split-tube Dobsonian)
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Celestron C4 EQ Mount

"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain" unknown


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94bamf
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #3431146 - 11/05/09 01:42 PM

Quote:

This thread inspired me to write a blog on the subject on the Sky & Telescope website.




Very entertaining Tony..

I am considering some tree trimming in my own backyard for a tree that pretty much completely blocks my view to the south. I personally don't really like the idea of cutting down or killing perfectly heathly trees, but I certainly wouldn't be so bold as to tell other people what they should do on their own property. That seems to be the problem today, many people think they know what is "best" for everybody, in every situation.

Ken

--------------------
Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
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Tony Flanders
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: 94bamf]
      #3431172 - 11/05/09 01:57 PM

Quote:

I personally don't really like the idea of cutting down or killing perfectly heathly trees ...




I understand and sympathize, and certainly wouldn't do it lightly.

But questions worth asking yourself are: Why is it different from weeding a garden? Why is it different from cutting the same trees with a lawnmower when they're seedlings? Do you mind cutting big trees more than small ones, or old ones than young ones (not the same thing!) and if so, why? How do you feel about underbrush? How do you feel about dandelions? What about thistles? Poison ivy?

All these questions have many perfectly good, and different answers. But I always find it helpful to consider my prejudices in context rather than taking them at face value.

--------------------
Tony Flanders

First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.


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lightfever
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #3431183 - 11/05/09 02:06 PM

There are some special trees I would not cut down, If it was a black walnut or hickory I would need to come up with another solution.

--------------------
Mark
Tasco 15-TE 76mm
Sky Watcher 80mm ED
AT-111 Triplet
XT8i (with Woden re-figured mirror)
Discovery 12.5" f/5 Premium DHQ (PDHQ Split-tube Dobsonian)
12.5" f/6.3 Dob (Underconstruction)
Celestron CG-5GT EQ Mount
Celestron C4 EQ Mount

"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain" unknown


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magic612
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Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obs new [Re: 94bamf]
      #3431313 - 11/05/09 03:03 PM

When my wife and I went house-hunting 9 years ago, we had a choice: New neighborhood with no trees, or old neighborhood with mature trees. This was something of a conscious decision, as the style of house was unimportant, but the kind of yard we had WAS. We chose "old neighborhood." By extension, we ended up with some very mature trees in our yard.

In the grand scheme of things, this works rather well: We get plentiful shade during the hot Midwest summers, good cooling protection for the house during the same, and plenty of leaves for the kids to jump in during the fall (despite the hard work it is to rake them and keep them out of the gutters). Unfortunately, although my back yard is wonderfully protected from light (house, garage and large pine tree protect most of three sides, and our neighbor the west turns off lights with one simple phone call), I have 3 very tall maple trees along the south end of the yard. With a 76 foot wide lot, and 75-80 foot high trees, well - do the math. I don't see much to the south. Overhead is GREAT. But southerly views are from the front yard.

Is that ideal? NO. My front yard is not well-suited to observing: One "constantly on" outdoor light from a next-door neighbor, and two others that are often on, plus two more beacon-like garage lights from 4 houses away. There is a small "wedge" of darkness that I can find near the southeast corner of my house, but it affords me a view of only S and SE - almost nothing SW, and even some of the directly south is not good, as it's right over my neighbors house and in-between some trees.

Could I cut down the maples in my backyard? Yeah. In the big-picture, would it be worth it to do so? Probably not. Now granted, one of them is very narrow, and may have some developing health issues. Conceivably, it may HAVE to come down. And that would give me a small slice of the "due south" sky from my back yard.

But unless and until it really NEEDS to come down, I can view a pretty darn good portion of the sky. WOuld I like to be able to see more? Well, duh - of course! But I personally don't see much benefit, as the only benefit is to ME. So beyond environmental concerns and perhaps being pejoratively labelled a "tree hugger" - the reality is that if I did such a thing, it would be completely and totally selfish of me. I have other places from which to observe. Not ideal, perhaps, but usable. Plus, there are friends of mine in the country who have offered their yards for observing, so I have other spots from which to see the sky.

Is it fair of me to cut down at least two (or more) trees in my backyard simply so I can have a bit better observing towards the south for what amounts to a couple days worth of observing over a year's time? Given how much my family benefits from the shade the trees provide (not to mention the energy savings for my own checkbook), I'd say it would be unfair of me to do so.

To each his / her own, but I try to consider others before I make a unilateral decision. Yes, my yard, my property. But it affects more than me.

--------------------
- Celestron C8+, Orion 90mm f/10, Orion ST-80, 5" f/8 Dob, 127mm f/9.4 refractor, 114mm f/8 on DS GoTo, 60mm Sears 6333-A, 127mm f4.4 refractor lens (current project), 12" f/5 mirror (future project)
- Orion Vista 10x50s (5 deg), Sears #6207 7x35 (7 deg), Jason #138 Statesman 7x35 (11.5 deg)

Yes, I'm addicted to telescopes and binoculars. I am getting help. Every time I look at the heavens, it helps.

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94bamf
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Loc: Kansas City,Mo
Re: Tree Pollution (removing tree for better obser) new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #3431346 - 11/05/09 03:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I personally don't really like the idea of cutting down or killing perfectly heathly trees ...




I understand and sympathize, and certainly wouldn't do it lightly.

But questions worth asking yourself are: Why is it different from weeding a garden? Why is it different from cutting the same trees with a lawnmower when they're seedlings? Do you mind cutting big trees more than small ones, or old ones than young ones (not the same thing!) and if so, why? How do you feel about underbrush? How do you feel about dandelions? What about thistles? Poison ivy?

All these questions have many perfectly good, and different answers. But I always find it helpful to consider my prejudices in context rather than taking them at face value.




I think I just like trees. It is mainly because of their age and size. I am no enviro wacko by any means, I have no problem sleeping at night after cutting my grass.. If cutting down trees provided me with something I "needed" like firewood, or just general safety from it falling on my house/property, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Whatever my personal feelings or prejudices are about cutting down trees or other plant life, I feel no need or desire to impose them on somebody else..

Ken

--------------------
Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Oberwerk 20x60
Zhumell 20x80


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