killdabuddha
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/26/11
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: bassplayer142]
#5522964 - 11/16/12 01:59 PM
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CN and Astronomics and even our own instrument, not to mention the nite sky, are all places to fumble around and get lost in. Just today I was droolin over TV refractors and wonderin what those must be like. This astronomical pursuit is a very imaginative one, and capable of swallowin us whole. No exit indeed. So we get forced back to applyin ourselves to the service of our imagination as best we can, whether it's packin lunches for the drive to the dark sky site or spendin days uber-collimating or otherwise improvin what we have. Besides Cheaper, it's not as tho we have any choice in the matter, rite? I mean, do you really think that I don't absolutely hate Steve O'Meara for his Kilauea skies and TV refractor? Who does he think he is? As far as I'm concerned, this is deficit-spending at its best, whether in dollars or in angst. Embrace the pain.
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Stargazer2012
super member
Reged: 09/01/12
Loc: Maine USA
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: YetAnotherHobby]
#5522981 - 11/16/12 02:17 PM
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I'm glad I listened to a couple people here in the forums about not jumping in too deep. I was eyeing all this equipment that I really didn't have the money for, and yet I had only been out a couple times, mostly looking at the moon. Then reality hit and I realized I was not actually willing to spend hours out in the cold night looking at these little points of light.
So there's no point in spending any more money on something that is a casual interest at best. I am a photographer and I am devoting my time and energy into becoming better at my art. I'm just glad I didn't sacrifice my camera equipment to buy a scope.
Sure, I am fascinated by the night sky. I will probably wait until spring to spend a little time outside with my small scopes and binoculars. As a lot of folks have pointed out, it's all about having fun. I quite agree.
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csrlice12
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/22/12
Loc: Denver, CO
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: JayinUT]
#5523014 - 11/16/12 02:45 PM
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+1 on taking your time when viewing. On most nights, I'll take skymaps with me. I'll usually only observe maybe two new objects a night. I also usually visit two or three old friends like the Lagoon Nebula, Ring Nebula, (I'm hoping the weather holds tonight as I plan to go into my back yard and look at Jupiter and the Pleadies (sp.)). It seems every time I look at the Lagoon Nebula (my favorite, maybe because it and the Ring were my first Nebulas I saw)I see more and more. Same with my RACI finder, as time goes on, I'm starting to see things in my finder that I never noticed before. What you think are stars, when you use averted vision or even just look close, you'll see some "fuzzy" patches. The guy who said you'll see things better as time goes on because you'll know better what you are looking for was correct.
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csrlice12
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/22/12
Loc: Denver, CO
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: csa/montana]
#5523022 - 11/16/12 02:52 PM
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now I cannot seem to locate the exit.
Sorry; CN keeps all exits locked. 
Welcome to the Hotel Astronomics
Such a lovely place, such a lovely place
Renting a Star at the Hotel Astronomics
Anytime of year, you can find it here
Renting a Star at the Hotel Astronomics
You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.
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Kevdog
sage
Reged: 07/11/12
Loc: Desert Hills, AZ
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: cheapersleeper]
#5523036 - 11/16/12 03:01 PM
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I am no longer ever satisfied with the equipment that I have now after decades of enjoying whatever equipment that I had. Reading planetary observers rave about seeing "much more detail than I could take in" and endless descriptions of "minute pinpricks on a background of black velvet," not to mention dust lanes, faint planetaries, solar flares, Airy discs and the moons of Jupiter as perfect discs.
I have the same problem. This summer after wanting a good telescope most of my life I finally bought a Meade LT8 and it is a great scope and it works very well. I've hardly had a chance to really use it (summers are too hot in AZ with bad seeing).
Already I'm lusting over a $4000 Orion XX16g. No, I don't need it. Yes it will be better than my 8". But probably for now I need to get out and observe and make sure I "use up" the capability of my small and portable 8" before I start lugging around a huge monster.
But that doesn't make me stop wanting it any less!!!!!
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Kevdog
sage
Reged: 07/11/12
Loc: Desert Hills, AZ
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: FirstSight]
#5523049 - 11/16/12 03:11 PM
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A a good observer can see more with marginal equipment than another can see with excellent equipment.
Galileo is an exellent example illustrating both the truth and the limitations of that statement.
- Consider how much he got out of a relatively primitive 30mm refractor capable of magnifying but 30x with an extremely narrow field of view!
- OTOH consider how immensely much more he would have certainly got out of a Televue NP101 on a solid tripod and undriven alt-az mount with a full set of Ethos eyepieces and a 2x Powermate to work with!
One thing we will never get back is the dark skies Gallileo had access to! 
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csrlice12
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/22/12
Loc: Denver, CO
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: Kevdog]
#5523086 - 11/16/12 03:43 PM
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at least they ain't throwing us in prison for herasey....
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Littlegreenman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/09/05
Loc: Southern California
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: Kevdog]
#5523095 - 11/16/12 03:47 PM
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Someone mentioned other hobbies. This issue has come up in audio along the lines of, 'My $X,000 (or $X00,000 these days)system sounds better, but I still don't have as much fun as I did listening to The Beatles on a handheld tansistor radio.'
Substitute whoever you want for The Beatles.
Part of it is as we get older, we loose some youthfull enthusiasm. With time we gain experiece; new discoveries are less frequent simply because we have 'used up' more and more of them. So we have less "new' experiences, which can be exciting. And there may be something involving dopamine receptors. I forget the details, but it was mentioned on a rerun of The Big Band Theory a couple of days ago.
LGM
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csrlice12
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/22/12
Loc: Denver, CO
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: Littlegreenman]
#5523109 - 11/16/12 03:57 PM
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but there's a lot to be said about being in the company of good friends......
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cheapersleeper
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/22/10
Loc: Sachse TX
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: Pinbout]
#5523314 - 11/16/12 06:50 PM
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The thing is that in THIS hobby, there are quantifiable objective differences between pieces of equipment.
are you not totally happy with your 12in mirror? did you ke test it on a bright star?
just lay a piece of tape across half the focuser and defocus vegas and see as you move it thru focus the ke spins. you can also look for the mirror to null, totally grey out or do you get a donut figure as you go thru focus.
also make a donut mask to mask off the outer 1/2" all around the primary then see how jupiter looks and are the star more pointy pointy, maybe you have a edge issue.
do you want a ronchi eyepiece? have an extra one I could send you since your such a good friend. 
Wonderful suggestions and I certainly appreciate your offer......but won't all this make the syndrome WORSE? 
I am pretty sure it was ignorance that let me be happy in the past.
B
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Dennis_S253
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/22/11
Loc: West Central Florida
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: cheapersleeper]
#5523599 - 11/16/12 11:06 PM
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I have come to the conclusion that unless I win the lotto, I probably won't have that much better equipment than I have right now. I've had many years of enjoyment from my 4" SCT. The only reason I bought the 6" was because now I have views of objects in the north. My SCT just wouldn't go there without breaking my neck. There are plenty of things to view out there. I'm going to start sketching what I see in my 6", so new comers will know what to expect when they look through there 6" or 8". That should keep me busy for years to come. Anytime I want, I can go view hubble images or the AP forums but, I like looking through my EP. I like my alone time, just me and the stars and all the other views. Clear skies to you.
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galexand
super member
Reged: 07/10/12
Loc: Bloomington Indiana
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: GOLGO13]
#5523703 - 11/17/12 12:29 AM
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I actually do get out to a darkish (rural) site on a regular basis (dinner with the in-laws). I got some binoculars to leave in the car because putting my telescope in the car always seemed a sure-fire way to make the clouds roll in! 
Anyways, coincidentally tonight *finally* the stars lined up: it was clear(ish), I had my 10x50s, and I took a break from arguing with my brother-in-law. Wow!  Obviously I wasn't picking out super detail in hand-held bins, but I found M36, M37, M38, which I think of as being fairly dim for open clusters, but they were super bright and obvious even in the bins.
That said, I'm still pretty excited to look through the telescope at home (a much more relaxing experience all around), though I'm bummed about the cool-down time.
I think I'm with Dennis (and others) who have suggested the reason to upgrade equipment is to be able to do more stargazing, not to do better stargazing. I need a refractor because I need to be more portable and faster cool-down, to use those little opportunities that are available. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
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droid
rocketman
Reged: 08/29/04
Loc: Conneaut, Ohio
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: cheapersleeper]
#5523913 - 11/17/12 07:50 AM
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The thing is that in THIS hobby, there are quantifiable objective differences between pieces of equipment.
are you not totally happy with your 12in mirror? did you ke test it on a bright star?
just lay a piece of tape across half the focuser and defocus vegas and see as you move it thru focus the ke spins. you can also look for the mirror to null, totally grey out or do you get a donut figure as you go thru focus.
also make a donut mask to mask off the outer 1/2" all around the primary then see how jupiter looks and are the star more pointy pointy, maybe you have a edge issue.
do you want a ronchi eyepiece? have an extra one I could send you since your such a good friend.
Wonderful suggestions and I certainly appreciate your offer......but won't all this make the syndrome WORSE?
I am pretty sure it was ignorance that let me be happy in the past.
B
of course it will..... you'll discover your mirror is not perfect, and then be driven to swap it for a Zambuto mirror, its a vicious cycle  lol
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Qwickdraw
sage
Reged: 03/03/12
Loc: Ann Arbor, Mi
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: cheapersleeper]
#5523916 - 11/17/12 08:00 AM
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So what's the problem?
I am no longer ever satisfied with the equipment that I have now after decades of enjoying whatever equipment that I had. Reading planetary observers rave about seeing "much more detail than I could take in" and endless descriptions of "minute pinpricks on a background of black velvet," not to mention dust lanes, faint planetaries, solar flares, Airy discs and the moons of Jupiter as perfect discs.
I am now painfully aware of the limitations of my equipment and of myself as an observer. Reading the forums, it would appear that the gear is out there to do what I want. Of course, it is an order of magnitude more expensive than what I already have. Still, I seriously consider throwing money at this hobby in hopes of enjoying it more. The nagging doubt remains, though, as to whether I had more fun when my own scope, whatever it was, was the best scope in the universe.
Regards,
Brad
Well, I feel you, maybe this will help...
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor his telescope, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”
Have a blessed day
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cheapersleeper
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/22/10
Loc: Sachse TX
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: Qwickdraw]
#5523953 - 11/17/12 08:49 AM
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I am off the hook here, motivation wise, I don't want anything of my neighbor's, I might well want something similar of my own.
B
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jfaust75
sage
Reged: 10/04/11
Loc: Central Florida
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: cheapersleeper]
#5524063 - 11/17/12 10:15 AM
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I WANT lots of things, BUT I am happy with what i do have.......
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Pinbout
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/22/10
Loc: Montclair
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: droid]
#5524110 - 11/17/12 10:39 AM
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The thing is that in THIS hobby, there are quantifiable objective differences between pieces of equipment.
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are you not totally happy with your 12in mirror? did you ke test it on a bright star?
just lay a piece of tape across half the focuser and defocus vegas and see as you move it thru focus the ke spins. you can also look for the mirror to null, totally grey out or do you get a donut figure as you go thru focus.
also make a donut mask to mask off the outer 1/2" all around the primary then see how jupiter looks and are the star more pointy pointy, maybe you have a edge issue.
do you want a ronchi eyepiece? have an extra one I could send you since your such a good friend.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wonderful suggestions and I certainly appreciate your offer......but won't all this make the syndrome WORSE?
I am pretty sure it was ignorance that let me be happy in the past.
B
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of course it will..... you'll discover your mirror is not perfect, and then be driven to swap it for a Zambuto mirror, its a vicious cycle lol
you know I have a 130f5 newt that I got new for $60 with a 2.7in focuser.
it gave great widefield views, but when I tested the mirror I could see only the center is slightly parabolized but from ~ .6-.7 zone out it is spherical.
but you know I push it on saturn [x260] and its only a little softer than my tv genesis sdf.
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killdabuddha
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/26/11
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: Pinbout]
#5524536 - 11/17/12 03:02 PM
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I'm gettin stoked all over again, this time for our 8" Gonna start plannin the build. Nice, Danny. Looks like a bino.
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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
Reged: 06/24/03
Loc: Los Angeles
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: killdabuddha]
#5524857 - 11/17/12 06:34 PM
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I've never had a lot of money, so I had observed for 30 years before I finally made it to 8". It took another 11 to get to 12.5", and I've been there for 8 years and probably will stay there.
Why was I OK with smaller scopes when my interest is deep-sky objects?
Well, part of it was making the time for the stargazing all-nighter at least once a month. That night really recharges my personal batteries and the stresses and problems of life just sort of flow away.
Another part is having to travel to get to dark skies. It's not just out the back door, it's a special trip to dark skies, and that trip, plus the all-nighter, makes it special, like a mini-vacation.
Last, the dark sites allow you to see stuff with much smaller apertures. I had 3500 objects in my log when I finally made it to 8".
Cloudy Nights just lets me know I'm not alone in my passion for the hobby.
That's priceless.
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JayinUT
I'm not Sleepy
Reged: 09/19/08
Loc: Utah
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Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
[Re: Starman1]
#5524907 - 11/17/12 07:02 PM
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Don,
Your last post is truly priceless. Nicely done and well said.
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