Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green GuÖ uh, User

General Astronomy >> General Observing and Astronomy

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights
      #5520602 - 11/15/12 06:02 AM

In the mid seventies I had a little Sears refractor and I enjoyed using it. In the mid eighties, I had a 6" f5 reflector that I put together using commercial mirrors. My pocketful of Erfles brought me great joy. Late nineties I had the ubiquitous 8" f6 dob, scraped together money to buy a few plossls and in the limited time I had to observe, was fairly satisfied.

Then came Cloudy Nights. I joined my local astro club, sold the 8" dob, got a 10" dob, started ATMing again, built a this and that and a 12" dob and now have a couple of cases of collimation tools and eyepieces. I recently wandered into the Solar system imaging forum and have poked my nose into that a little bit.

So what's the problem?

I am no longer ever satisfied with the equipment that I have now after decades of enjoying whatever equipment that I had. Reading planetary observers rave about seeing "much more detail than I could take in" and endless descriptions of "minute pinpricks on a background of black velvet," not to mention dust lanes, faint planetaries, solar flares, Airy discs and the moons of Jupiter as perfect discs.

I am now painfully aware of the limitations of my equipment and of myself as an observer. Reading the forums, it would appear that the gear is out there to do what I want. Of course, it is an order of magnitude more expensive than what I already have. Still, I seriously consider throwing money at this hobby in hopes of enjoying it more. The nagging doubt remains, though, as to whether I had more fun when my own scope, whatever it was, was the best scope in the universe.

Regards,
Brad


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5520616 - 11/15/12 06:16 AM

Quote:

Still, I seriously consider throwing money at this hobby in hopes of enjoying it more. The nagging doubt remains, though, as to whether I had more fun when my own scope, whatever it was, was the best scope in the universe.

Regards,
Brad




Brad:

In my experience, better equipment can lead to better views but probably not more enjoyment. Throwing money at the problem doesn't make it any more satisfying...

I know my equipment isn't the best, no Zambuto mirrors around here. But I am happy with it because I know that together we see some amazing things and I know that there are plenty more to be seen.

The most precious commodity is not equipment, it's time, time at the eyepiece... Maximize your time at the eyepiece and you will maximize your enjoyment...

Jon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5520619 - 11/15/12 06:25 AM

Quote:

Reading planetary observers rave about seeing "much more detail than I could take in" and endless descriptions of "minute pinpricks on a background of black velvet," not to mention dust lanes, faint planetaries, solar flares, Airy discs and the moons of Jupiter as perfect discs.

I am now painfully aware of the limitations of my equipment and of myself as an observer. Reading the forums, it would appear that the gear is out there to do what I want. Of course, it is an order of magnitude more expensive than what I already have.




That was, more or less, the situation I faced when I began in this hobby, around twenty years ago. I had no money, just a tiny telescope, and I wanted to see all kinds of stuff. What to do? There was only one option: Become a better observer! I did this through reading a lot about observing techniques and practicing them. It took several years, but suddenly, I was able to see those dust lanes, faint planetary nebulae, resolve doubles to the very limit of my telescope, etc, etc.

You already have equipment orders of magnitude more powerful than I had. Now optimize the rest of the chain, from skies to observer, and the subtle details and faint objects will come to you, too.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
FarrOut
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/24/05

Loc: Tampa
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5520643 - 11/15/12 06:57 AM

And now you know the full meaning of the phrase:
"How you gonna keep them down on the farm after they have been to Paris"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TexasRed
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/17/11

Loc: East Texas
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: FarrOut]
      #5520724 - 11/15/12 08:21 AM

Reread Jon's post.

Telescopes have been defined as instruments that promise their owners astounding view if they just spend more money on them. Alternately, you can spend more time with them and achieve the same thing.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JasonBurry
sage


Reged: 04/27/12

Loc: Cape Spencer, NB, Canada
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: TexasRed]
      #5520772 - 11/15/12 09:04 AM

Astrojensen has it, I think. I've observed with only a trio of scopes over the past dozen years, starting with a very cheap 70mm shorty refractor, then my 8" F6 dob and occasionally an EQ 4.5" newt.

Each season, I take out my 8" and revisit old friends, attempt more and more challenging objects (G1/Mayall II this fall). Each season, I see my old friends in more detail than I'd thought possible the previous year. Indeed, my 8" scope routinely (and by routinely, I mean about 4x a year) shows me more planetary detail than I can really absorb.

This weekend past, I observed M42 for the first time this season. It was less than 45deg up, but I saw detail in the nebulosity that had escaped my eyes in previous seasons, startlingly obvious to me this time. I'll blame a summer of faint galaxy hunting for that!

In the 8 or 9 years I've had that 8" newt, I've been able to improve my observing skills by a margin that seems to exceed the difference between that instrument and my old 70mm.

Whatever scope you have, as long as it's optically decent, can be a forever scope. I doubt I'll ever go bigger myself. I also doubt I'll ever stop seeing new detail, new limits, at least until my eyes grow old and dim.

Anyone can spend money on equipment. Training ourselves to use our equipment to its utmost limits is, to me, far more satisfying.

J


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
killdabuddha
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/26/11

Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: JasonBurry]
      #5520825 - 11/15/12 09:43 AM

What Jon said, and said so well. The phrase, "If yer not havin fun at this, yer not doin it rite," has nowhere in it anything about the equipment. We're gonna build again, but smaller, for the car. As for the stuff we're usin these days, I apologize to Galileo and Newton every day. Besides, "Suffice to say, what we behold is censored by our eyes..." (Really like that line.)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
droid
rocketman
*****

Reged: 08/29/04

Loc: Conneaut, Ohio
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5520836 - 11/15/12 09:48 AM

Brad; I cant imagine not finding cloudy nights.
Yes my equipment has changed, but at 56 Im well beyond
giving in to peer pressure.
Yes I recently purchased a 16 inch reflector ,thanks to Cloudy Nights, but that was a childhood dream concluded.
I also have a 8 incf/6 being rebuilt by a fantastic friend I met her here on Cloudy Nights first ,then met in person later.But I had the 8 inch dob before Cloudy nights.

I primarily stay away from the equipment forums, yes I read them, but I spend 90 percent of my time reading observing reports, posting questions about whats the best objects, and making myself a better observer, hopefully,.
By the way my most used telescope is still a 60mm with a handful of motley eye pieces.
The other side of Cloudy Nights are the people, Ive met hundreds of them in person at cloudy night gatherings all are phenomenal folks, good people. And Im honored to have met them and created such friends.

I guess it is what we make of it, lol.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
droid
rocketman
*****

Reged: 08/29/04

Loc: Conneaut, Ohio
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: killdabuddha]
      #5520844 - 11/15/12 09:51 AM

are you kidding, Galileo and Newton would be ecstatic to see what they're discovery wrought.

ever deliberately try to recreate , Galileo's view, Christmas junk scopes give better views, hehehehehehehehehehe


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5520877 - 11/15/12 10:06 AM

Quote:

I know my equipment isn't the best, no Zambuto mirrors around here. But I am happy with it because I know that together we see some amazing things and I know that there are plenty more to be seen.





Couldn't agree more! I'm very content with my equipment, especially my scope. It shows me amazing things, and I look forward to each view thru it, like it is my first view.

There's always the wishful thinking, about how much better the views might be thru higher cost equipment; however, the limiting factor is the viewer him/herself. If you use your current equipment to it's fullest, the sky's the limit (pun intended!)

On CN, I absolutely love reading all the member's reports on their new bigger, better equipment, it's very interesting, but doesn't make me want it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GOLGO13
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/05/05

Loc: St. Louis area
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5520903 - 11/15/12 10:22 AM

This is a bit how I felt when I was going to dark sky sites. I'd come back to my terribly light polluted skies and think...man, why even bother. Now when I'm in LP I try to focus on targets which are just as good in LP.

I also found that I was getting a little burned out on observing. I took a pretty long break (maybe a year or two), somewhat because I had two young kids now. I found that I had a renewed interest in observing...and I have somewhat forgotten the dark sky differences. I have also found myself enjoying my smaller scopes more which do fine on most light pollution objects.

Maybe just take some time off and don't get too worried about perfection. I personally cannot afford to get the best (well, at least my wife won't let me). So I try to get the most out of what I have.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tony Flanders
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5520911 - 11/15/12 10:23 AM

Quote:

I joined my local astro club, sold the 8" dob, got a 10" dob, started ATMing again, built a this and that and a 12" dob and now have a couple of cases of collimation tools and eyepieces. . . .

I am no longer ever satisfied with the equipment that I have now after decades of enjoying whatever equipment that I had. Reading planetary observers rave about seeing "much more detail than I could take in" and endless descriptions of "minute pinpricks on a background of black velvet," not to mention dust lanes, faint planetaries, solar flares, Airy discs and the moons of Jupiter as perfect discs.




With the exception of solar flares, which require an H-alpha scope, those have nothing at all to do with your equipment, and everything to do with seeing, dark skies, and experience.

A 12-inch Dob is amply big enough to see Jupiter's moons as disks. It's a rare night indeed when you will see more detail on Jupiter with any telescope, no matter how large, than with a good 12-inch Dob.

And a 12-inch Dob shows dust lanes in many galaxies under dark skies.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jgraham
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: JasonBurry]
      #5520919 - 11/15/12 10:25 AM

I've had a similar experience after reading several reports of unbelievable performance and amazing views and oh my gawd I couldnít believe what a difference these hopelessly expensive eyepieces have made in the incredibly expensive hypertuned small telescope. After trying out some of this gear Iíve come to the conclusion that most of these types of reports are exaggerations to say the least. Yes, having great gear can make a difference to a point, but the differences are often small and/or require great skies and/or steady air and are really in the eyes of the beholder. The only time I have ever had a near out-of-body experience observing was looking at Saturn through a master telescope makerís Tri-Schiefspiegler. Oh yes, and authors of some deepsky observing guides are either hyper-experienced, have super-human vision, use the 60Ē on mount Wilson and misquote it as being a 60mm, observe under the best skies known to humankind, smoking something medicinal, or are making half of it up (okay, three quarters). In short, you may be chasing an illusion. There are certain basic truths that seem to hold water. For visual deepsky aperture rules. For imaging itís all about the mount. For planetary seeing is everything. None of this replaces the experience of the observer. You can have a heck of a lot of fun with a heck of a lot less depending on what your goal is. Iíve been an active amateur astronomer for right at 50 years, much of that as an amateur telescope maker. Iíve accumulated a lot of stuff and Iíve reached the point where Iíve got a nice set to tinker with depending on my mood. (I suffer from astronomical ADD, so I tend to bounce around a lot. Itís not so much that nothing holds my attention very long itís that Iím interested in everything and thereís only so much you can do with Ohio weather.) I found rather than pursuing that mythical perfect view pursue what interests you. Unless of course what interests you is that perfect view, in which case thatís more of a place than a thing. And remember that most basic truth of all; happiness is not for sale.

Have fun, and enjoy each evening one at a time.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
*****

Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: jgraham]
      #5520955 - 11/15/12 10:46 AM

Well, there's a lot of us that are quite the gizmo junkies and I can't think of a better (or worse ) hobby than astronomy for a gizmo oriented person. We love to try stuff and because of that, we go through a lot of equipment. I've slowed down the last year or so, but suffice it to say, I moved my share of stuff. For me and for a lot of others in this hobby, it's fun trying different stuff, not sad.

David


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5520978 - 11/15/12 11:04 AM

I have to agree that while the equipment side has it's place, time at the eyepice is what matters. I find I see more everytime I go out (not as often as I'd like, I haven't had the scope out in about 2 months due to family commitments, and the nasty weather--it's the weekend, it must be raining). TexasRed was the one who mentioned in another thread, that time at the eyepiece brought out the detail more than any eyepiece...and he's right. Not that equipment doesn't help, but the viewing is more important then the equipment.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sg6
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/14/10

Loc: Norfolk, UK.
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5520987 - 11/15/12 11:11 AM

Brad, I tend to agree. I get a lot of pleasure from looking through the smaller scopes I have.

It may be to do with the fact that I am more relaxed when using the smaller less expensive ones.

Also I just want to look through the smaller ones, I do not expect images to jump out and amaze me. A really good image is a bonus, on the apo's I find I tend to expect it and feel robbed if it isn't.

If I point a 120 apo at Saturn I want precise views, forget the Cassini division I want ice crystals! If I point the little 70mm achro I am pretty happy just to find Saturn.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Edward E
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/26/06

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5521033 - 11/15/12 11:36 AM

Very interesting and timely post. I was just reflecting on my own experiences with equipment and enjoyment after 30+ years of observing. After having used telescopes from 60mm to 508mm that track, goto, and computerized I have rediscovered that the fun, for me, comes from the hunt; that is hunting down the objects myself, no computer or machine to get me there besides a paper atlas and a basic telescope, plus learning the scope's capabilities and my own limitations. Yes, I can view more objects in less time with a goto scope which I used for many years but during that time I noticed that something was missing. I recently purchased a large used Dob and found the spark that had been missing all those years. My equipment is not state of the art in fact all my eyepieces are over 15 years old now and the scope is 5 years old, not one of today's sleek hot rods with an uber precision, fifth avenue mirror(s)& uber price tag but I am once again coming away from each monthly observing run, very happy, enthusiastic and satisfied about what I have seen. Yes, sometimes the seeing is poor or I do not see everything on my list for that night but like the old saying goes, its not the destination but the journey that is important. Relax, enjoy reading the posts of Cloudy Night R but most of all find what works best for you and enjoy your own journey through this hobby.

Cheers and clear skies!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: sg6]
      #5521034 - 11/15/12 11:36 AM

As sg6 touched on, I suspect it is a matter of expectations.

At this point, I have been working nights for almost 4 years. I have a job that is for me, a bit stressful. Every night it is a "stand and deliver" situation where my work is known, important, and scrutinized. (For the telecom knowledgeable, I work in a NOC.)

This gives rise to two conditions: Scarcity of observing opportunity, and, at times, a need for something "special" out of an observing session. I just don't have the time to get out and my backyard sessions in light polluted skies are a bit on the frustrating side. I do not recall saying that I have NEVER seen Jupiter's moons as discs, never seen this never seen that... I have, but very infrequently. I hope too and EXPECT to have have a good night with some frequency and I believe this is where the equipment acquisition thing picks up. Better mechanicals hopefully mean few nights with something annoying that is not specifically about the observing experience. Better optics hopefully means that you at least have the confidence that you are getting something near what the night is capable of allowing every time out. Those things are the reason that I would want better equipment.

When I observed in ignorance, in a leisurely fashion, it was more fun.

B


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5521092 - 11/15/12 12:04 PM

Quote:

As sg6 touched on, I suspect it is a matter of expectations.

At this point, I have been working nights for almost 4 years. I have a job that is for me, a bit stressful. Every night it is a "stand and deliver" situation where my work is known, important, and scrutinized. (For the telecom knowledgeable, I work in a NOC.)

This gives rise to two conditions: Scarcity of observing opportunity, and, at times, a need for something "special" out of an observing session. I just don't have the time to get out and my backyard sessions in light polluted skies are a bit on the frustrating side. I do not recall saying that I have NEVER seen Jupiter's moons as discs, never seen this never seen that... I have, but very infrequently. I hope too and EXPECT to have have a good night with some frequency and I believe this is where the equipment acquisition thing picks up. Better mechanicals hopefully mean few nights with something annoying that is not specifically about the observing experience. Better optics hopefully means that you at least have the confidence that you are getting something near what the night is capable of allowing every time out. Those things are the reason that I would want better equipment.

When I observed in ignorance, in a leisurely fashion, it was more fun.

B




Your glass isn't half empty, it's half full.

On the plus side; you are used to being up nights, so the nights you spend viewing don't come out of your sleep time.

Sounds like to need to get that scope out to a dark site. While the better equipment might give you a slight edge in light polluted skies, it won't make any significant difference. The best and cheapest accessory you have with that scope I call the "Gas Filter". You will see more from a dark site with a WalMart telescope then you will in town with better optics.

Maybe that's the "wow" factor you're looking for. Nothing beats dark skies for viewing, regardless of the equipment.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
YetAnotherHobby
sage
*****

Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Central CT
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5521096 - 11/15/12 12:06 PM

My name is Geoff, and I am an astro gear junkie. My last purchase was a few weeks ago when I purchased a 50mm Plossl which promptly brought clouds and hurricanes upon New England. Sorry New Jersey!
But lately I have stopped obsessively scanning the classifieds - I've been using Skytools to generate observing lists. I've been reading Sky and Telescope back issues to get some observing ideas. And last night I spent half an hour staring at Jupiter. Funny how after a few minutes those fuzzy brown bands on a white disk suddenly had texture, and how they were joined by fainter, narrower bands. And when did that subtle coloring of the disk start? It was mesmerizing. In our relentlessly fast paced life moments like these where time stops and we can focus on the beauty of this one thing are all too rare. I want more!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: YetAnotherHobby]
      #5521117 - 11/15/12 12:17 PM

I put to you that you are the opposite of an astro-gear junkie. You're more into the observing then the acqusistion of equipment. Good for you. While equipment is nice, its eyeball to eyepiece that counts.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5521131 - 11/15/12 12:23 PM

Despite my general protestations that one does not need to have premium equipment to observer well, I do strongly suspect that general annoyance may be lower with really good equipment. In fact, I have a good mind to fire the guy who builds most of my equipment. Of course, if I do that, I will have nothing to occupy my time when it's cloudy.

B


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EddWen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/26/08

Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5521208 - 11/15/12 01:15 PM

Observing nature, from the cosmos to snails in the back yard when it is raining, is enjoyable to me.

I have a considerable equipment list to do this. But my equipment is not a necessary requirement. Here is an example of my using the least expensive telescope I have to gather some memorable observations:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4675600/page...

At the other end of the spectrum, my grand-daughter loves to use my cobbled together, old, no-name Japanese microscope with an old video camera scavenged from a prototype endoscope, to look at whatever she finds in the yard or street gutter.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
FarrOut
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/24/05

Loc: Tampa
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5521312 - 11/15/12 02:15 PM

Quote:

Despite my general protestations that one does not need to have premium equipment to observer well, I do strongly suspect that general annoyance may be lower with really good equipment. In fact, I have a good mind to fire the guy who builds most of my equipment. Of course, if I do that, I will have nothing to occupy my time when it's cloudy.

B




I reminds me of a saying about golf and NASCAR.
A a good observer can see more with marginal equipment than another can see with excellent equipment.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: FarrOut]
      #5521343 - 11/15/12 02:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Despite my general protestations that one does not need to have premium equipment to observer well, I do strongly suspect that general annoyance may be lower with really good equipment. In fact, I have a good mind to fire the guy who builds most of my equipment. Of course, if I do that, I will have nothing to occupy my time when it's cloudy.

B




I reminds me of a saying about golf and NASCAR.
A a good observer can see more with marginal equipment than another can see with excellent equipment.




I don't disagree with that sentiment. The question is, after that guy drives that car or uses those sticks and does better than someone else can do with better equipment, does he also end up saying "Dang, that was frustrating driving that junk!" I suspect they would feel that way and that is what I am talking about.

B


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5521433 - 11/15/12 03:29 PM

"A good observer can see more with marginal equipment than another can see with excellent equipment."

But give a good oberver excellent equipment..........


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Paco_Grande
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/12

Loc: Banana Republic of California
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5521462 - 11/15/12 03:47 PM

Quote:

The question is, after that guy drives that car or uses those sticks and does better than someone else can do with better equipment, does he also end up saying "Dang, that was frustrating driving that junk!" I suspect they would feel that way and that is what I am talking about.





Practice gratitude. It will bring happiness to life.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
FirstSight
Duke of Deneb
*****

Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: FarrOut]
      #5521830 - 11/15/12 08:03 PM

Quote:


A a good observer can see more with marginal equipment than another can see with excellent equipment.




Galileo is an exellent example illustrating both the truth and the limitations of that statement.
- Consider how much he got out of a relatively primitive 30mm refractor capable of magnifying but 30x with an extremely narrow field of view!
- OTOH consider how immensely much more he would have certainly got out of a Televue NP101 on a solid tripod and undriven alt-az mount with a full set of Ethos eyepieces and a 2x Powermate to work with!

Observing skill and experience certainly does powerfully enhance what can be obtained with any given set of equipment, but likewise quality equipment certainly does powerfully enhance what can be obtained with observing skill and experience. It's a mutual feedback loop, although getting beyond just a superficial threshold of value from any given set of observing equipment does depend on the extent of skill and experience brought to it. Galileo's situation illustrates the converse as well: the limitations of one's equipment can limit what even a skilled observer can extract from it, take Galileo's uncertainty over what the true nature of Saturn's "handles" was for but one example.

Edited by FirstSight (11/15/12 08:47 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wky46
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/12/05

Loc: west Ky.
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: FirstSight]
      #5521846 - 11/15/12 08:11 PM

Like a drug addict chasing the feeling they got with their first buzz is kinda like me chasing that first buzz I got when I viewed Saturn for the first time many years ago through a cheap 60mm refractor. Never felt anything like that since, but I'm still chasing.... maybe one day

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
galexand
sage
*****

Reged: 07/10/12

Loc: Bloomington Indiana
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5521976 - 11/15/12 09:41 PM

I love gizmos, don't get me wrong (I'm shopping for my first refractor). But I'm with GOLGO13...the only thing that makes me jealous or insecure in this hobby is my awful skies. Even compared to the same urban site a couple months ago, getting out the telescope lately is disappointing. I've never even been to a dark sky site with my scope, but someday I want to see some of these galaxies! I don't need to see the dust lanes, I'd be happy just to be able to see the arms at all (M31 is just a circle in my skies). And the way the skies are lately, even some of the open clusters (like M37) are hard to appreciate.

But you know there was that one time, just a couple weeks ago, at the end of a long night of poor seeing suddenly everything was just-so and I got a flawless view of Jupiter at 125x.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GOLGO13
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/05/05

Loc: St. Louis area
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: galexand]
      #5522054 - 11/15/12 10:30 PM

Galexand,

We should get a cloudynights star party setup sometime in southern Missouri. That would be about 7 hours away for you though...still, that's not too bad. Actually you should have some fairly decent skies south of you.

I had a friend who invited me a lot to dark skies. But now he observes on the other side of Missouri (about 3-4 hours from me). So I have no dark sky hookups right now. I have some friends who live in semi-dark skies. but I really don't want to bother them. I may do so sometime if conditions are really good.

Really, even semi-dark skies (say orange/yellow on cleardarksky.com) can make a gigantic difference. Of course if you get to perfection like the skies out west, an 80mm apo would probably be enough to make you happy


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CounterWeight
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Palo alto, CA.
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: GOLGO13]
      #5522154 - 11/16/12 12:11 AM

I came here to ask about imaging with my C11 and CGE.... and to ask about refractors... and I guess I've $cratched that itch. I've learned a lot about gear during my absence (~2002 to 2008), there's great folks that will help you spend or save as much as you want or is realistic for the desired objective.

As far as the observing reports and comparative reporting, I take much of it with a grain of sand, but I do read it. As already mentioned, nothing better than ep time on whatever you have - well maybe one thing... and that is seeing conditions whatever your LP level and habits.

There were things I wasn't happy about before I came here and joined in and started posting. I am a lot happier now, far more confident in what I can do with my 'gear' in many ways, but possibly much poorer for actual savings in the bank. One thing about nice gear that you sacrifice for, you want to use it! Cloudyopolis is not a place I recommend... so the unhappiness continues in ways. Net summed I'm grateful, and impressed at what the CN presence / community on the net has to offer


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bassplayer142
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/03/11

Loc: Michigan
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: YetAnotherHobby]
      #5522215 - 11/16/12 02:30 AM

Simple human nature. You've tasted the forbidden fruit and like everyone else, feel you need more. By no means is astronomy the only hobby that has this problem, but it is amplified as opposed to some other hobbies.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: bassplayer142]
      #5522219 - 11/16/12 02:42 AM

Quote:

Simple human nature. You've tasted the forbidden fruit and like everyone else, feel you need more. By no means is astronomy the only hobby that has this problem, but it is amplified as opposed to some other hobbies.




But I am still happily playing guitars I acquired in the 1980s...

The thing is that in THIS hobby, there are quantifiable objective differences between pieces of equipment. In many other hobbies, the differences are very subjective.

B


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
star drop
contra contrail
*****

Reged: 02/02/08

Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5522618 - 11/16/12 10:40 AM

I came here to ask ONE question about the Paracorr and now I cannot seem to locate the exit. The one question has cost me a new Paracorr and three ES100į eyepieces. Bad for my wallet but good for Astronomics.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: star drop]
      #5522656 - 11/16/12 10:54 AM

Quote:

now I cannot seem to locate the exit.




Sorry; CN keeps all exits locked.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5522745 - 11/16/12 11:38 AM

Quote:

The thing is that in THIS hobby, there are quantifiable objective differences between pieces of equipment.





are you not totally happy with your 12in mirror? did you ke test it on a bright star?

just lay a piece of tape across half the focuser and defocus vegas and see as you move it thru focus the ke spins. you can also look for the mirror to null, totally grey out or do you get a donut figure as you go thru focus.

also make a donut mask to mask off the outer 1/2" all around the primary then see how jupiter looks and are the star more pointy pointy, maybe you have a edge issue.

do you want a ronchi eyepiece? have an extra one I could send you since your such a good friend.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: FirstSight]
      #5522803 - 11/16/12 12:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:


A a good observer can see more with marginal equipment than another can see with excellent equipment.




Galileo is an exellent example illustrating both the truth and the limitations of that statement.
- Consider how much he got out of a relatively primitive 30mm refractor capable of magnifying but 30x with an extremely narrow field of view!
- OTOH consider how immensely much more he would have certainly got out of a Televue NP101 on a solid tripod and undriven alt-az mount with a full set of Ethos eyepieces and a 2x Powermate to work with!

Observing skill and experience certainly does powerfully enhance what can be obtained with any given set of equipment, but likewise quality equipment certainly does powerfully enhance what can be obtained with observing skill and experience. It's a mutual feedback loop, although getting beyond just a superficial threshold of value from any given set of observing equipment does depend on the extent of skill and experience brought to it. Galileo's situation illustrates the converse as well: the limitations of one's equipment can limit what even a skilled observer can extract from it, take Galileo's uncertainty over what the true nature of Saturn's "handles" was for but one example.




The thing to remember about Galileo is that he was one of the first to explore the universe. He basicallly started out where all of us do; just standing in awe of the night sky. He didn't know where things were at, he had no guide, no star atas (at least none he didn't create), no digital setting circles. And the only way he had to view an object a second, third, or fourth time was to "get in the general area and scan the sky). We have it so much easier then Galileo ever did. And its all thanks to him and those like him (Keppler, Messier, Sagan, etc..)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bassplayer142
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/03/11

Loc: Michigan
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5522916 - 11/16/12 01:20 PM

I don't think instruments have changed too much over the years. If you look for vintage instruments they are very expensive and it isn't always because they are collectors items. Those old fender jazz basses just sound great! There's no comparison of a new quality telescope compared to "most" vintage scopes. You either have quality optics and aperture or you don't.

I also thinks there's a location distinction that hasn't been mentioned here. Its hard to judge how seeing is everywhere when I've only ever observed in Michigan. Sometimes people can mistake reports because sky conditions are sub par.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JayinUT
I'm not Sleepy
*****

Reged: 09/19/08

Loc: Utah
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: bassplayer142]
      #5522953 - 11/16/12 01:50 PM

This is just my visual observing creed. Please feel free to disregard it. I've owned a variety of telescopes and I have to say, that some have performed better than others as I the observer have gained experience. The key to this hobby isn't the equipment, its getting out and using it on whatever you want to observe. It is slowing down, not rushing through objects. Look for details, note them in a digital recorder or on paper/observing form. Come back to the object on a different night or a later time and see if it is different. Sketch if you want to capture what your seeing. In the end, the eyepiece, the scope won't matter. Some of my favorite memories are from using my XT8 scope from a long time ago. Today I do have a Zambuto, I have a wonderful structure in my 14" DobStuff dob and guess what, I am content. I don't have aperture fever, I have found what works for me. I sold my 1/2 in my 20" and for eyepieces, I am now content. Nothing to get, nothing to prove. So, don't compare, don't get caught into the black hole of eyepiece, telescope and equipment until YOU are ready to upgrade and you want to upgrade for a specific reason. Fads come and go on this site. Again, find what works for you and then just enjoy reading. It is fun just to read not to think. I like CloudyNights for the reading more than anything.

Last, to make a major point with me, it doesn't matter what you use, but those who use what they have the most, will see the most and learn the most. So get out and use whatever you have and use it on a regular basis (whatever regular is for you).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
killdabuddha
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/26/11

Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: bassplayer142]
      #5522964 - 11/16/12 01:59 PM

CN and Astronomics and even our own instrument, not to mention the nite sky, are all places to fumble around and get lost in. Just today I was droolin over TV refractors and wonderin what those must be like. This astronomical pursuit is a very imaginative one, and capable of swallowin us whole. No exit indeed. So we get forced back to applyin ourselves to the service of our imagination as best we can, whether it's packin lunches for the drive to the dark sky site or spendin days uber-collimating or otherwise improvin what we have. Besides Cheaper, it's not as tho we have any choice in the matter, rite? I mean, do you really think that I don't absolutely hate Steve O'Meara for his Kilauea skies and TV refractor? Who does he think he is? As far as I'm concerned, this is deficit-spending at its best, whether in dollars or in angst. Embrace the pain.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Stargazer2012
super member


Reged: 09/01/12

Loc: Maine USA
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: YetAnotherHobby]
      #5522981 - 11/16/12 02:17 PM

I'm glad I listened to a couple people here in the forums about not jumping in too deep. I was eyeing all this equipment that I really didn't have the money for, and yet I had only been out a couple times, mostly looking at the moon. Then reality hit and I realized I was not actually willing to spend hours out in the cold night looking at these little points of light.

So there's no point in spending any more money on something that is a casual interest at best. I am a photographer and I am devoting my time and energy into becoming better at my art. I'm just glad I didn't sacrifice my camera equipment to buy a scope.

Sure, I am fascinated by the night sky. I will probably wait until spring to spend a little time outside with my small scopes and binoculars. As a lot of folks have pointed out, it's all about having fun. I quite agree.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: JayinUT]
      #5523014 - 11/16/12 02:45 PM

+1 on taking your time when viewing. On most nights, I'll take skymaps with me. I'll usually only observe maybe two new objects a night. I also usually visit two or three old friends like the Lagoon Nebula, Ring Nebula, (I'm hoping the weather holds tonight as I plan to go into my back yard and look at Jupiter and the Pleadies (sp.)). It seems every time I look at the Lagoon Nebula (my favorite, maybe because it and the Ring were my first Nebulas I saw)I see more and more. Same with my RACI finder, as time goes on, I'm starting to see things in my finder that I never noticed before. What you think are stars, when you use averted vision or even just look close, you'll see some "fuzzy" patches. The guy who said you'll see things better as time goes on because you'll know better what you are looking for was correct.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: csa/montana]
      #5523022 - 11/16/12 02:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

now I cannot seem to locate the exit.




Sorry; CN keeps all exits locked.




Welcome to the Hotel Astronomics
Such a lovely place, such a lovely place
Renting a Star at the Hotel Astronomics
Anytime of year, you can find it here
Renting a Star at the Hotel Astronomics
You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kevdog
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/11/12

Loc: Desert Hills, AZ
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5523036 - 11/16/12 03:01 PM

Quote:


I am no longer ever satisfied with the equipment that I have now after decades of enjoying whatever equipment that I had. Reading planetary observers rave about seeing "much more detail than I could take in" and endless descriptions of "minute pinpricks on a background of black velvet," not to mention dust lanes, faint planetaries, solar flares, Airy discs and the moons of Jupiter as perfect discs.





I have the same problem. This summer after wanting a good telescope most of my life I finally bought a Meade LT8 and it is a great scope and it works very well. I've hardly had a chance to really use it (summers are too hot in AZ with bad seeing).

Already I'm lusting over a $4000 Orion XX16g. No, I don't need it. Yes it will be better than my 8". But probably for now I need to get out and observe and make sure I "use up" the capability of my small and portable 8" before I start lugging around a huge monster.

But that doesn't make me stop wanting it any less!!!!!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kevdog
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/11/12

Loc: Desert Hills, AZ
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: FirstSight]
      #5523049 - 11/16/12 03:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:


A a good observer can see more with marginal equipment than another can see with excellent equipment.




Galileo is an exellent example illustrating both the truth and the limitations of that statement.
- Consider how much he got out of a relatively primitive 30mm refractor capable of magnifying but 30x with an extremely narrow field of view!
- OTOH consider how immensely much more he would have certainly got out of a Televue NP101 on a solid tripod and undriven alt-az mount with a full set of Ethos eyepieces and a 2x Powermate to work with!





One thing we will never get back is the dark skies Gallileo had access to!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Kevdog]
      #5523086 - 11/16/12 03:43 PM

at least they ain't throwing us in prison for herasey....

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Littlegreenman
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/09/05

Loc: Southern California
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Kevdog]
      #5523095 - 11/16/12 03:47 PM

Someone mentioned other hobbies. This issue has come up in audio along the lines of, 'My $X,000 (or $X00,000 these days)system sounds better, but I still don't have as much fun as I did listening to The Beatles on a handheld tansistor radio.'

Substitute whoever you want for The Beatles.

Part of it is as we get older, we loose some youthfull enthusiasm. With time we gain experiece; new discoveries are less frequent simply because we have 'used up' more and more of them. So we have less "new' experiences, which can be exciting. And there may be something involving dopamine receptors. I forget the details, but it was mentioned on a rerun of The Big Band Theory a couple of days ago.

LGM


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Littlegreenman]
      #5523109 - 11/16/12 03:57 PM

but there's a lot to be said about being in the company of good friends......

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5523314 - 11/16/12 06:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The thing is that in THIS hobby, there are quantifiable objective differences between pieces of equipment.





are you not totally happy with your 12in mirror? did you ke test it on a bright star?

just lay a piece of tape across half the focuser and defocus vegas and see as you move it thru focus the ke spins. you can also look for the mirror to null, totally grey out or do you get a donut figure as you go thru focus.

also make a donut mask to mask off the outer 1/2" all around the primary then see how jupiter looks and are the star more pointy pointy, maybe you have a edge issue.

do you want a ronchi eyepiece? have an extra one I could send you since your such a good friend.






Wonderful suggestions and I certainly appreciate your offer......but won't all this make the syndrome WORSE?

I am pretty sure it was ignorance that let me be happy in the past.

B


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dennis_S253
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/22/11

Loc: West Central Florida
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5523599 - 11/16/12 11:06 PM

I have come to the conclusion that unless I win the lotto, I probably won't have that much better equipment than I have right now. I've had many years of enjoyment from my 4" SCT. The only reason I bought the 6" was because now I have views of objects in the north. My SCT just wouldn't go there without breaking my neck. There are plenty of things to view out there. I'm going to start sketching what I see in my 6", so new comers will know what to expect when they look through there 6" or 8". That should keep me busy for years to come. Anytime I want, I can go view hubble images or the AP forums but, I like looking through my EP. I like my alone time, just me and the stars and all the other views. Clear skies to you.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
galexand
sage
*****

Reged: 07/10/12

Loc: Bloomington Indiana
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: GOLGO13]
      #5523703 - 11/17/12 12:29 AM

I actually do get out to a darkish (rural) site on a regular basis (dinner with the in-laws). I got some binoculars to leave in the car because putting my telescope in the car always seemed a sure-fire way to make the clouds roll in!

Anyways, coincidentally tonight *finally* the stars lined up: it was clear(ish), I had my 10x50s, and I took a break from arguing with my brother-in-law. Wow! Obviously I wasn't picking out super detail in hand-held bins, but I found M36, M37, M38, which I think of as being fairly dim for open clusters, but they were super bright and obvious even in the bins.

That said, I'm still pretty excited to look through the telescope at home (a much more relaxing experience all around), though I'm bummed about the cool-down time.

I think I'm with Dennis (and others) who have suggested the reason to upgrade equipment is to be able to do more stargazing, not to do better stargazing. I need a refractor because I need to be more portable and faster cool-down, to use those little opportunities that are available. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
droid
rocketman
*****

Reged: 08/29/04

Loc: Conneaut, Ohio
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5523913 - 11/17/12 07:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The thing is that in THIS hobby, there are quantifiable objective differences between pieces of equipment.





are you not totally happy with your 12in mirror? did you ke test it on a bright star?

just lay a piece of tape across half the focuser and defocus vegas and see as you move it thru focus the ke spins. you can also look for the mirror to null, totally grey out or do you get a donut figure as you go thru focus.

also make a donut mask to mask off the outer 1/2" all around the primary then see how jupiter looks and are the star more pointy pointy, maybe you have a edge issue.

do you want a ronchi eyepiece? have an extra one I could send you since your such a good friend.






Wonderful suggestions and I certainly appreciate your offer......but won't all this make the syndrome WORSE?

I am pretty sure it was ignorance that let me be happy in the past.

B





of course it will..... you'll discover your mirror is not perfect, and then be driven to swap it for a Zambuto mirror, its a vicious cycle lol


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Qwickdraw
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/03/12

Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5523916 - 11/17/12 08:00 AM

Quote:



So what's the problem?

I am no longer ever satisfied with the equipment that I have now after decades of enjoying whatever equipment that I had. Reading planetary observers rave about seeing "much more detail than I could take in" and endless descriptions of "minute pinpricks on a background of black velvet," not to mention dust lanes, faint planetaries, solar flares, Airy discs and the moons of Jupiter as perfect discs.

I am now painfully aware of the limitations of my equipment and of myself as an observer. Reading the forums, it would appear that the gear is out there to do what I want. Of course, it is an order of magnitude more expensive than what I already have. Still, I seriously consider throwing money at this hobby in hopes of enjoying it more. The nagging doubt remains, though, as to whether I had more fun when my own scope, whatever it was, was the best scope in the universe.

Regards,
Brad





Well, I feel you, maybe this will help...

You shall not covet your neighborís house; you shall not covet your neighborís wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor his telescope, nor anything that is your neighborís.Ē

Have a blessed day


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5523953 - 11/17/12 08:49 AM

I am off the hook here, motivation wise, I don't want anything of my neighbor's, I might well want something similar of my own.

B


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jfaust75
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/04/11

Loc: Central Florida
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5524063 - 11/17/12 10:15 AM

I WANT lots of things, BUT I am happy with what i do have.......

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: droid]
      #5524110 - 11/17/12 10:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The thing is that in THIS hobby, there are quantifiable objective differences between pieces of equipment.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




are you not totally happy with your 12in mirror? did you ke test it on a bright star?

just lay a piece of tape across half the focuser and defocus vegas and see as you move it thru focus the ke spins. you can also look for the mirror to null, totally grey out or do you get a donut figure as you go thru focus.

also make a donut mask to mask off the outer 1/2" all around the primary then see how jupiter looks and are the star more pointy pointy, maybe you have a edge issue.

do you want a ronchi eyepiece? have an extra one I could send you since your such a good friend.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Wonderful suggestions and I certainly appreciate your offer......but won't all this make the syndrome WORSE?

I am pretty sure it was ignorance that let me be happy in the past.

B


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




of course it will..... you'll discover your mirror is not perfect, and then be driven to swap it for a Zambuto mirror, its a vicious cycle lol





you know I have a 130f5 newt that I got new for $60 with a 2.7in focuser.

it gave great widefield views, but when I tested the mirror I could see only the center is slightly parabolized but from ~ .6-.7 zone out it is spherical.



but you know I push it on saturn [x260] and its only a little softer than my tv genesis sdf.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
killdabuddha
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/26/11

Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5524536 - 11/17/12 03:02 PM


I'm gettin stoked all over again, this time for our 8" Gonna start plannin the build. Nice, Danny. Looks like a bino.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: killdabuddha]
      #5524857 - 11/17/12 06:34 PM

I've never had a lot of money, so I had observed for 30 years before I finally made it to 8". It took another 11 to get to 12.5", and I've been there for 8 years and probably will stay there.
Why was I OK with smaller scopes when my interest is deep-sky objects?
Well, part of it was making the time for the stargazing all-nighter at least once a month. That night really recharges my personal batteries and the stresses and problems of life just sort of flow away.
Another part is having to travel to get to dark skies. It's not just out the back door, it's a special trip to dark skies, and that trip, plus the all-nighter, makes it special, like a mini-vacation.
Last, the dark sites allow you to see stuff with much smaller apertures. I had 3500 objects in my log when I finally made it to 8".
Cloudy Nights just lets me know I'm not alone in my passion for the hobby.
That's priceless.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JayinUT
I'm not Sleepy
*****

Reged: 09/19/08

Loc: Utah
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Starman1]
      #5524907 - 11/17/12 07:02 PM

Don,

Your last post is truly priceless. Nicely done and well said.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: JayinUT]
      #5524945 - 11/17/12 07:28 PM

Don, and all nighter once a month would be way more than I manage. I bet I get 4 or 5 a year and no expectation of getting much more for the near future. That is part of why I get frustrated. Anything that is not working optimally is a big deal when time is so limited and frankly, I forget how to observe in between overnight trips. And thinking about it, since I have a young son, even some of the times that I make it to the club dark site, I don't end up observing or do so for a very short time due to the constraints of taking care of the boy.

B


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: killdabuddha]
      #5524968 - 11/17/12 07:40 PM

Quote:

Looks like a bino.




its really a kit for two. she sits, I stand. she drives, I tell her where. but it gets confusing cause I'm upside down and backwards, she's just backwards.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
droid
rocketman
*****

Reged: 08/29/04

Loc: Conneaut, Ohio
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Starman1]
      #5525637 - 11/18/12 07:52 AM

Don; its also possible that you've trained your eye to really see.
We have several members in the 60mm telescope ,who see more than I do in a 60mm than I see in four inch refractor, lol.
Of course at 56 my eyes are not what they used to be, lol.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5525662 - 11/18/12 08:20 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

now I cannot seem to locate the exit.




Sorry; CN keeps all exits locked.




Welcome to the Hotel Astronomics
Such a lovely place, such a lovely place
Renting a Star at the Hotel Astronomics
Anytime of year, you can find it here
Renting a Star at the Hotel Astronomics
You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.




Hotel California has nothing on us!






Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: droid]
      #5525809 - 11/18/12 10:22 AM

Quote:

Don; its also possible that you've trained your eye to really see.
We have several members in the 60mm telescope ,who see more than I do in a 60mm than I see in four inch refractor, lol.
Of course at 56 my eyes are not what they used to be, lol.



Well, that's the point. Forced to keep with small scopes, I learned to see stuff right at the limit of my vision.

I had a customer once who spent the first year observing looking at the Messier objects and keeping notes. His notes said "faint", "dim", "small", "Hard to see". He told me that a couple years later, after looking at a bunch of NGC objects, he went back to look at the Messier objects, only this time his notes were full of "really bright", "huge!", and "near some faint companions".

Obviously he wasn't blind when he started out--he had just learned to see.
It's because no other activity that I know teaches you to see details in faint things near the limit of your vision except looking through a telescope. I often tell newbies that they will never see LESS than they do when they first look through a telescope. The longer you live, if you keep doing it, the more you'll see and be able to see.

I hear you about the eyes. The good news about that is that I think experience trumps vision unless you have some form of degenerative problem in the eye.

I've been on Cloudy Nights ten years, and I've seen a lot of posters on the site undergo that same evolution. It's encouraging for the future, even if proliferation of outdoor lighting isn't.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
droid
rocketman
*****

Reged: 08/29/04

Loc: Conneaut, Ohio
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: csa/montana]
      #5526280 - 11/18/12 02:50 PM

Hotel California....aint we dating ourselves? loved the Eagles

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: droid]
      #5526294 - 11/18/12 02:59 PM

Hey, we all gotta be born sometime; some just a little sooner then others.....

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Glen A W
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5526355 - 11/18/12 03:40 PM

I think maybe with the economy down the consumerism has slowed a bit, too. It seems to me that some marketers have studied telescopes and they know exactly what it is that we like about them. I am sorry to say that these must be very cynical people who are in the business. But, I am surprised sometimes what apparently intelligent people will fall for. I have at least tripped and stumbled myself on this issue, though, so I am not running anybody down. The savvy of these marketers is incredible.

I have tried many scopes and owned many. The ones I have liked best were a Chinese 4" achro and a couple old reflectors. I have not seen another scope any sharper or more contrasty than my old Meade 8" f/6 Newtonian which I sold for little. I have a scope which cost $8,000 sitting in my living room and that was mostly a waste because I would rather have my $1200 Chinese 10" cg-5 Newt which I use most of the time now.

I have mentioned on the forum before that when I only had a 60mm, I thought it was a fine galaxy scope. It is true that more aperture is desirable, but these ideas about superlative quality in some designer scopes have to be taken with suspicion. They may be of higher quality, but how much does it matter, most of the time? Shine a flashlight down my 10" and it looks like they polished the mirror with 100 grit sandpaper, yet it is a great scope, all around. GW


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SubaruB4
member


Reged: 11/14/12

Loc: Greenwich, CT
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Starman1]
      #5526547 - 11/18/12 06:11 PM

Well said! I'm glad I found this site I totally agree with the driving to a dark site, I got half way to my site and I pulled over on the side of the road and turned off my headlights and stuck my head out and I said wow out loud it was so wonderful looking at the sky. only thing I wished I did is get a scope when I was younger.. still in my 20's but two more years until 3-0

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
coopman
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 04/23/06

Loc: South Louisiana
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: SubaruB4]
      #5526938 - 11/18/12 10:02 PM

I have enjoyed CN a lot, and my equipment choices would not have been so informed if not for the great advice learned from others here.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5527139 - 11/19/12 12:23 AM

Quote:

I am no longer ever satisfied with the equipment that I have now after decades of enjoying whatever equipment that I had.




You have a 12 inch Dob. That is a good place to be. Enjoy your equipment. You will have to bump to an 18 incher to significantly improve your views. (18 inches would double your the amount of light compared to a 12 incher.)You could replace your current optics by some made by a premier maker. But, my main advice is to settle down and enjoy your current telescope. My first telescope was a 4 inch Dynascope. I later moved up to an 8 inch. Years later I bought a 20 incher and sold it--too much hassle. My 12.5 inch Portaball has been my main telescope for 17 years. You are in a good place!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tony Flanders
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5527332 - 11/19/12 04:47 AM

Quote:

Don, and all nighter once a month would be way more than I manage. I bet I get 4 or 5 a year and no expectation of getting much more for the near future. That is part of why I get frustrated. Anything that is not working optimally is a big deal ...




Lack of time is a huge problem. But when the urge to spend strikes you, just remember that spending money will make things worse, not better.

If time is limited, the key to happiness is simplicity. Minimize your equipment and learn to use what you have until it's secondary nature.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5527358 - 11/19/12 05:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Don, and all nighter once a month would be way more than I manage. I bet I get 4 or 5 a year and no expectation of getting much more for the near future. That is part of why I get frustrated. Anything that is not working optimally is a big deal ...




Lack of time is a huge problem. But when the urge to spend strikes you, just remember that spending money will make things worse, not better.

If time is limited, the key to happiness is simplicity. Minimize your equipment and learn to use what you have until it's secondary nature.




Wonderful pun, Mr. Flanders, and I agree with the sentiment.

I am glad that such a wonderful and constructive discussion developed from my initial griping. Many good points have been made and while the discussion went on I have been able to pinpoint a lot more of what is bugging me. I guess the main thing that I can take away from this analysis is that I am rarely frustrated after time at a dark(er) site regardless of equipment. Over the last few years I have gone from 8, to 10, to 12" dobs as my primary instruments and all have made me pretty happy from the dark. My back yard observing is limited mostly to planets, which are always going to be the least forgiving of equipment and is the kind of observing that may well make premium optics worthwhile. It is planetary observing, and the little bit of Jupiter imaging that whetted my appetite for "more better gooder."


Hopefully I will find a way to do more observing and in better conditions so that I can avoid some of the frustration.

I guess I also have to add that for me, since I do so much ATM, most equipment problems are totally my fault. It's a double whammy to have problems while observing that nag and having responsibility not only to fix the problems, but also certainty that I caused them in the first place...

B


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5527418 - 11/19/12 07:38 AM

Quote:

My back yard observing is limited mostly to planets, which are always going to be the least forgiving of equipment and is the kind of observing that may well make premium optics worthwhile. It is planetary observing, and the little bit of Jupiter imaging that whetted my appetite for "more better gooder."


Hopefully I will find a way to do more observing and in better conditions so that I can avoid some of the frustration.

I guess I also have to add that for me, since I do so much ATM, most equipment problems are totally my fault. It's a double whammy to have problems while observing that nag and having responsibility not only to fix the problems, but also certainty that I caused them in the first place...

B




Brad:

Glad things are looking better... A couple of thoughts...

- In my experience planetary viewing is about equipment preparation and seeing...

- I view equipment difficulties as an opportunity to be creative, they inspire me to think out of the box and devise new and different solutions... The balky azimuth action on my 16 inch Dob resulted in an adjustable center bearing with a compression spring with an adjustable preload. It's the same idea as the milk-jug washers but it is adjustable and even it one of the boards is slightly warped, it still works just fine.

Jon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5529962 - 11/20/12 11:56 AM

Hey Brad,

you can still test your optics Mr. ATM'er. I posted this over in the cats and dog forum.



Dick Parker's testing optics eludes to KE testing from a star.

I always like KE test, you can see a lot about the surface instead of trying to interpret rings from a defocused star, although there is all the info there in a star test it's not very intuitive.

but instead of a Knife Edge you can cover half the focuser with a piece of tape, the last time I did it I use white artist tape and the white "color" didn't interfere with the test at all. and something you would like is it's very very cheap.


from this page


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Star Spot test



The Spherical Spot test is wonderfully sensitive because it is a null test. This means that when you do the test every part of the mirror is (supposed to be) at the same zone. Any part of the mirror which is at a different zone stands right out. You can get the same results from a complete telescope by using a real star as the light source.

Assemble your telescope, wait for some great seeing, and point to a star. You will need a sturdy mount for your telescope. Keep the star centered and remove the eyepiece (dob users usually prefer Polaris). You can start with a knife edge cutting in the cone of light, move the focuser to find the focal point of the telescope. This is a 1D null test and it is very sensitive. Many people have done this before. Now merely replace the knife edge with a very small spot. Since the star is a true point source, you will be able to use a spot as small as 0.001" for greater sensitivity.

Bring the spot to the focal point (keep the star centered). There is a null point there which will show you the quality of the wavefront exiting the telescope in graphic detail. But be aware, this test is severe. It tests the entire optical system. Not just the mirrors and/or lenses, but also the air the light travels through. It might even be as brutal as the regular star test (with an eyepiece; it shows the change in the diffraction pattern due to image aberrations). Certainly they should be used together. The star test can tell if you have errors, the Star Spot test will show you most of those errors directly.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/08/02

Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5530377 - 11/20/12 03:00 PM

Another case of "How 'Ya Gonna Keep 'Em Down on the Farm?" (After They've Seen Paree)?

Dave Mitsky


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #5530533 - 11/20/12 04:07 PM

Quote:

Another case of "How 'Ya Gonna Keep 'Em Down on the Farm?" (After They've Seen Paree)?

Dave Mitsky




Absolutely, sir.

B


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5530569 - 11/20/12 04:24 PM

"How 'Ya Gonna Keep 'Em Down on the Farm?" (After They've Seen Paree)?

Easy, get'em a scope. The farm has darker skies!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
droid
rocketman
*****

Reged: 08/29/04

Loc: Conneaut, Ohio
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5531580 - 11/21/12 06:46 AM

Quote:

In the mid seventies I had a little Sears refractor and I enjoyed using it. In the mid eighties, I had a 6" f5 reflector that I put together using commercial mirrors. My pocketful of Erfles brought me great joy. Late nineties I had the ubiquitous 8" f6 dob, scraped together money to buy a few plossls and in the limited time I had to observe, was fairly satisfied.

Then came Cloudy Nights. I joined my local astro club, sold the 8" dob, got a 10" dob, started ATMing again, built a this and that and a 12" dob and now have a couple of cases of collimation tools and eyepieces. I recently wandered into the Solar system imaging forum and have poked my nose into that a little bit.

So what's the problem?

I am no longer ever satisfied with the equipment that I have now after decades of enjoying whatever equipment that I had. Reading planetary observers rave about seeing "much more detail than I could take in" and endless descriptions of "minute pinpricks on a background of black velvet," not to mention dust lanes, faint planetaries, solar flares, Airy discs and the moons of Jupiter as perfect discs.

I am now painfully aware of the limitations of my equipment and of myself as an observer. Reading the forums, it would appear that the gear is out there to do what I want. Of course, it is an order of magnitude more expensive than what I already have. Still, I seriously consider throwing money at this hobby in hopes of enjoying it more. The nagging doubt remains, though, as to whether I had more fun when my own scope, whatever it was, was the best scope in the universe.

Regards,
Brad





Brad; some times it helps to go backwards , as has already been mentioned simple scopes and simpler observing is not a bad thing, I own several telescopes, but standing by the door ,always, is my trusty 60x700 Widger scope and I get tons of viewing with this little scope.yeah I have larger scopes, but after a day in the foundry, Im often far to tired to lug ,set up etc.
Im pretty sure that little scope keeps me in the game and looking up.
Hope anything youve read in this thread helps.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: droid]
      #5531601 - 11/21/12 07:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

In the mid seventies I had a little Sears refractor and I enjoyed using it. In the mid eighties, I had a 6" f5 reflector that I put together using commercial mirrors. My pocketful of Erfles brought me great joy. Late nineties I had the ubiquitous 8" f6 dob, scraped together money to buy a few plossls and in the limited time I had to observe, was fairly satisfied.

Then came Cloudy Nights. I joined my local astro club, sold the 8" dob, got a 10" dob, started ATMing again, built a this and that and a 12" dob and now have a couple of cases of collimation tools and eyepieces. I recently wandered into the Solar system imaging forum and have poked my nose into that a little bit.

So what's the problem?

I am no longer ever satisfied with the equipment that I have now after decades of enjoying whatever equipment that I had. Reading planetary observers rave about seeing "much more detail than I could take in" and endless descriptions of "minute pinpricks on a background of black velvet," not to mention dust lanes, faint planetaries, solar flares, Airy discs and the moons of Jupiter as perfect discs.

I am now painfully aware of the limitations of my equipment and of myself as an observer. Reading the forums, it would appear that the gear is out there to do what I want. Of course, it is an order of magnitude more expensive than what I already have. Still, I seriously consider throwing money at this hobby in hopes of enjoying it more. The nagging doubt remains, though, as to whether I had more fun when my own scope, whatever it was, was the best scope in the universe.

Regards,
Brad





Brad; some times it helps to go backwards , as has already been mentioned simple scopes and simpler observing is not a bad thing, I own several telescopes, but standing by the door ,always, is my trusty 60x700 Widger scope and I get tons of viewing with this little scope.yeah I have larger scopes, but after a day in the foundry, Im often far to tired to lug ,set up etc.
Im pretty sure that little scope keeps me in the game and looking up.
Hope anything youve read in this thread helps.




Andy,

I does help, and it doesn't help... Perfectionism is a hard way to live. Part of your advice, though, I am acting on. Still working on a 6" f5 newt for my son that I imagine I will want to use as well. That's enough aperture to see stuff and a crazy big field to make it easy and relaxing. Also, less chance of herniation.

Regards,
Brad


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5531670 - 11/21/12 08:25 AM

Had a Tasco scope in the mid 60s (wish I still had it). Didn't have another till about a year ago and did a lot of research before buying the 10" Dob. Just went by yesterday and ordered an Omni 102XLT for Christmas. I love the 10", great scope. But for backyard viewing, it was a bit of a chore to drag it out for just a couple of hours or less. I have no plans of going any bigger on either a reflector or refractor. I bought the dob because I'll be retiring in a few years and wanted to pick up a hobby; it was then that I remembered all the fun I had as a kid with that scope.....I know I'll be happy with these the rest of my life...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5531729 - 11/21/12 08:58 AM

Quote:

Had a Tasco scope in the mid 60s (wish I still had it). Didn't have another till about a year ago and did a lot of research before buying the 10" Dob. Just went by yesterday and ordered an Omni 102XLT for Christmas. I love the 10", great scope. But for backyard viewing, it was a bit of a chore to drag it out for just a couple of hours or less. I have no plans of going any bigger on either a reflector or refractor. I bought the dob because I'll be retiring in a few years and wanted to pick up a hobby; it was then that I remembered all the fun I had as a kid with that scope.....I know I'll be happy with these the rest of my life...




Four words: You need a twelve.

B


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
galexand
sage
*****

Reged: 07/10/12

Loc: Bloomington Indiana
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5532051 - 11/21/12 11:35 AM

I love all these simple ways to test your optics -- star test, knife edge, etc. They don't make me dissatisfied with my telescope (I paid $300, I already know it's not perfection), or I would probably regret my affiliation with you guys.

Recently I discovered that if you severely defocus a bright star (so its light covers nearly your entire field of view), you can see moving air clear as day. I can set my hand just below the front of the tube and see the warm air rising from it (YMMV if your local government hasn't invented 'winter' yet). Way cool.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: I may have been happier before Cloudy Nights new [Re: galexand]
      #5532052 - 11/21/12 11:36 AM

I have found that after 40+ years viewing no one scope is great for everything.
My 102mm ED Meade is a great scope especially for Doubles, but my 7" Mak is better,
I have a 12" LX200 but the thing is so heavy and my Midwest skys arent that great, BUT I go running for it on those great seeing nights.
a little C6 NexStar se is a perfect grab and go scope,
so is the 127 SLT Mak. Do I miss my 17" DOB yes but my back doesn't


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)


Extra information
5 registered and 8 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  cildarith, panhard, tecmage 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 3522

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics