Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
Starslinger
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/18/06
Posts: 555
Loc: Mountain View, CA
|
|
So, I always thought that the purpose of a Readers Gallery in a magazine was to inspire the regular man/woman in the street to submit images... non-professionals with a chance to get published.
So what's up with Astronomy magazine? This months readers gallery features a sequence of lunar shots, a picture of NGC 1579 and Cederblad 111. I always look at the equipment used to take the images... I'm usually hoping that it'll say that it was shot with an Orion or a Meade or a Celestron. I can even sigh with a little dream if it was shot on a Takahashi...
I decided to make a rudimentary tally of the value of the equipment used to take this months images. What a shocker!
The first image was taken on an ASA Astrograph 8"... I reckon those cost around 5000 USD. The camera was a Finger Lakes IMG6303E. A bargain at only 9500 USD (for the cheapest version)
The second sequence was shot by two Italians on the 'scope that they design, build and sell... the Gladio scope. I have no idea how much that costs. The camera they used was the Lumenera Infinity 2-1 which is quite reasonable at 1700 USD. Apparently they flew to Thailand to take the pics too...
The third pic takes the cake. It was taken on a 20" RC Optical Ritchey-Chretien. I had not heard of RC Optical. I looked 'em up. The 'base' price for this scope was 54,300 USD. Yes. FIFTY FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS. I'm not sure if that even includes the mount... I was too busy trying to pick my bacon up off the floor. They were reasonably economical with the camera: an SBIG STL-11000 which, for the base model, is only 7,000 USD.
Of course this is merely the tube and the camera. No idea how much money was spent on mounts, drives, electronics etc. etc.
I feel like walking off into the night with my cheap achromat dragging behind me flicking burning Stratus EP's into the rose garden....
--------------------
Refractors: 80mm (apo), 100mm and 120mm (both achro)
Eyepieces: 8mm & 17mm Stratus, 10mm, 12.5mm, 20mm & 25mm Plossl, 25mm & 33mm WO SWAN's & 35mm Deepview
Mounts: SVP & SV M1 on Manfrotto
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4339
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
I know what you mean - in many ways these days the amateurs are the 'pros' at imaging. If you look on CN there are plenty of people with $25k in imaging kit (a Paramount ME or AP1200 and a STL11000 eat up most of that before you've even got a 'scope), it's not too surprising that there are some with much more.
The thing is, you can still have a huge amount of fun without spending that money. I don't really care that I'm taking worse images, much worse really, than the big guns. I'm enjoying doing what I do. My imaging setup (G11, 80mm refractor, SXV-H9C) is well under $5000 at used prices and will keep me on the learning curve for years, and you can get results without spending even that much - Paul Rix is a great example (and look who won the CN imaging contest, I'd bet S&T or Astronomy would take that one too). So i'd say forget about what the guys with $100k rigs and 300 days of perfect seeing under New Mexico sky are doing, have fun.
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
Starslinger
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/18/06
Posts: 555
Loc: Mountain View, CA
|
|
Hey Ben, take your point completely about enjoying it anyway, I really do enjoy it - and I'm not even past imaging the moon yet ;-)
But I still think it's somewhat unfair.... readers gallery should be or, at least, feel achievable. No?
--------------------
Refractors: 80mm (apo), 100mm and 120mm (both achro)
Eyepieces: 8mm & 17mm Stratus, 10mm, 12.5mm, 20mm & 25mm Plossl, 25mm & 33mm WO SWAN's & 35mm Deepview
Mounts: SVP & SV M1 on Manfrotto
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4339
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
Yeah, I'd like to think I could do it 
S&T seems a bit better, at least the copy I have to hand here (Jan 2007) - there are a few images which didn't cost $$$ and, heck, one guy even used film 
... and, ok, there's another with a 12" f/3.8 astrograph, uberCCD who went to Namibia to image, but, heck, nobody's perfect... 
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
mnaf
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 626
Loc: Bay Area, CA
|
|
I hear you S.
It's really easy to get discouraged in this hobby. And it doesn't help when a magazine's "Reader's Gallery" includes pics from US$50k otas.
Quote:
I'm not sure if that even includes the mount... I was too busy trying to pick my bacon up off the floor.
LMAO 
--------------------
~Mike
Atlas EQ-G
Orion 8", AT66ED
Discovery 80mm refractor
Meade LPI, DSI Pro, DSI Pro II
|
Starslinger
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/18/06
Posts: 555
Loc: Mountain View, CA
|
|
Ben... had a look at your site. You ARE one of those with über kit (LOL)...
(By the way, I used to work in software dev just up the road from you in Guildford.... )
--------------------
Refractors: 80mm (apo), 100mm and 120mm (both achro)
Eyepieces: 8mm & 17mm Stratus, 10mm, 12.5mm, 20mm & 25mm Plossl, 25mm & 33mm WO SWAN's & 35mm Deepview
Mounts: SVP & SV M1 on Manfrotto
|
mnaf
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 626
Loc: Bay Area, CA
|
|
Yeah, what keeps me going is the fact that there are great images being put out with equipment less than mine. Plus it's just so much "fun" staying up late (early?) imaging things I can't see with my eye or even though an eyepiece.  But it's neat that it's from my backyard..
Mike
--------------------
~Mike
Atlas EQ-G
Orion 8", AT66ED
Discovery 80mm refractor
Meade LPI, DSI Pro, DSI Pro II
Edited by mnaf (02/03/07 02:47 AM)
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4339
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
Quote:
By the way, I used to work in software dev just up the road from you in Guildford....
Quote:
Loc: Mountain View, CA
You got that move right
Quote:
Ben... had a look at your site. You ARE one of those with über kit
I wish the G11 was in that league, it would save me hours of messing around at night (and i might be able to image at something above 384mm focal length...!).
This year I decided to put as much money as I could afford into a set of equipment that would hopefully keep me going for a few years. That was going to just be G11 and CCD, the AP happened by accident (it appeared at a price I couldn't turn down). At the moment it's visual only, not because it can't image (it should be excellent) but because I haven't got the G11 dialled in for imaging at 1000mm focal length.
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
ClownFish
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/26/05
Posts: 5600
Loc: Islamabad, Pakistan
|
|
Quote:
heck, one guy even used film
Hey.. I represent that remark!
I agree with you Starslinger.. the images seen in those mags these days are so far from something the average guy can afford, that they may as well be taken from the Hubble.
But don't get too depressed. The folks here range from $50 cameras to $10,000 and with skill they all produce excellent astrophotography. Here's a fun comparison I use on my website.
Take a look at these comparison shots of M42 or M31.
The photos on the LEFT were taken with a TAK FSQ 106N APO telescope, EM-11 mount, and an SBIG ST-10XME camera. The total cost of this setup was over $14,000 US. The images on the RIGHT were taken with a stock Meade LXD75 8" Schmidt Newtonian, a 20-year old Olympus OM-1 camera. Total cost of this setup was under $1,600.
Now go out there and capture the universe in YOUR own style, and post them here!!
Clear skies to yah!
CF
--------------------
Learn all about POLAR ALIGNMENT with my Drift Method Tutorial and simulator!! Or visit my Foreign Service Blog!
|
Paul Rix
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/06/04
Posts: 2924
Loc: Zanesville, Ohio,USA
|
|
It certainly would be nice if both magazines adopted a policy of printing a wider range of images in their galleries. It would be nice if they would acknowledge your submissions too, even if they choose not to use it. I sent S&T and Astronomy my Shuttle/ISS image last month and have not heard anything back from either of them. I don't mind if they don't want to use it (it is a small and slightly out of focus shot afterall), but at least an email to say someone looked at it would be nice.
At the end of the day, I guess they want to print the best images available because sharp vivid images look highly impressive and those who don't image or actively observe would probably be more drawn to those at the news stand. I could be wrong on that of course.
--------------------
Climbing the Learning Curve
Meade 10" LX200 Classic: WO 66SD.
Philips SPC900NC, DMK21AU04.AS, Meade DSI Pro and DSI Pro II.
|
Bill W.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1437
Loc: Western PA, USA
|
|
I too get a bit disgusted seeing images that close to $85,000 in equipment was used to take the shot. I do understand why Astronomy & S&T publish them. Starslinger the $54k does NOT include the mount. They're probably using a Parmount ME ($12,500) or a AP1200 ($10,000 or so). I probably just made you drop your bacon again... ... sorry! I've seen some pretty awesome images from setups that did cost more an arm and a leg. I've also seen some pretty bad shots from equipment that was definitely a lot more capable than who was using. In my opinion, to get good at astrophotography you need to pay attention to the small details... it's not always the equipment that has the biggest impact on obtaining a good image. Right now, I am pretty satisfied with the result I can get from my setup. It wasn't cheap but a LX200 definitely isn't the best scope for astrophotography...
-Bill
--------------------
Orion Atlas EQ-G (EQMOD), SBIG ST-2000XM & AO7
Stellarvue SV66ED
Skunk Hollow Observatory
|
jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 5367
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
|
|
I agree. It's gotten to the point I barely glance at the reader's gallery in Astronomy or S&T. Anymore the first thing I tend to glance at is the equipment, if it's the usual list of unafforadble unobtainium I move on. On the other hand, if it lists relatively simple equipment, that gets my attention.
--------------------
-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I & II), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
|
John Jarosz
I'm being watched...
Reged: 04/25/04
Posts: 2192
Loc: Chicago area, IL
|
|
You have to admit that those guys with the $50,000+ rigs get some really nice images. Now if they were lousy and the mags published them just because of the rig, well that would be cause for murmuring.
Compared to the pics they published pre-1990, the imaging capability available to anyone is simply astounding. Give it your best shot an send it in, I'm sure if it's a good image they'll publish it.
But I do understand the feeling of having to compete with unlimited $$. 
John (who decided long ago he couldn't afford astro imaging)
--------------------
6" F4.6(w/Paracorr) GEM reflector, 8" F11 Dall Relay Scope
6" F5 RFT Refractor, Garrett Gemini 20x80 LW
|
Dubboy
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/05/05
Posts: 2147
Loc: Northern Michigan
|
|
Quote:
I agree. It's gotten to the point I barely glance at the reader's gallery in Astronomy or S&T. Anymore the first thing I tend to glance at is the equipment, if it's the usual list of unafforadble unobtainium I move on. On the other hand, if it lists relatively simple equipment, that gets my attention.
Likewise 
--------------------
Don
"Don't worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky and enjoy God's wondrous universe" Thomas Back.
|
Dave M
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 4519
Loc: N.E Ohio
|
|
I`ll agree, some of the shots from the guys with mega dollar
setups are great!, funny how you see the same peoples images
in there quite often, atleast it seems that way.. 
Recently i switched to the BBC Sky at Night mag, great mag great cover CD.
--------------------
Dave
Meade 16" F4.5 EQ Starfinder
Meade 10" SCT / Losmandy G11
Tak FSQ106ED
Canon 20D
SBig ST-4
http://www.spacew.com/gallery/DM
|
Paul Rix
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/06/04
Posts: 2924
Loc: Zanesville, Ohio,USA
|
|
Dave, how does Sky at Night work out cost wise compared to Astronomy and S&T?
--------------------
Climbing the Learning Curve
Meade 10" LX200 Classic: WO 66SD.
Philips SPC900NC, DMK21AU04.AS, Meade DSI Pro and DSI Pro II.
|
csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
|
|
The last time I checked into pricing for the US, it was about $120 for a year's subscription!
Carol (P.S. Paul, I thought your space shuttle pic was absolutely amazing!)
--------------------
Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
|
R_Angkasa
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/16/06
Posts: 899
Loc: SO PAS - CA
|
|
Well . . . perhaps there are not too many submission from the regular guy. Obviously the shot has to be "perfect" for publishing - good composition, good color, good files, interesting, etc. And we can do all those without spending $50K. The guys who has $50k equipment are people who likes to do things "perfectly" not just in terms of equipment but their shots such as correct exposure, correct color rendition, correct cropping, etc and again we can do all that with $5000 equipment or less.
This thread actually inspire me to submit my AP work. I have done a moon but nothing else. And I think I will try to submit my "perfect" moon shot with the equipment that I have (less than $5000)
--------------------
10x42L IS
FS128
12" DSH
3.5, 5, 7,
10, 14, 20,
30, 40
|
lawrie
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/31/06
Posts: 1544
Loc: Okanagan Valley
|
|
I have always wondered why Astro Mags. always seem to do this. It is like they don't realize what the majority of people in this hobby are, what I mean is if I had an extra 60k I would have to look at more mundane things eg: new roof, kids education.
Maybe it their way of giving us goals to achieve too.
I personally think they should try the same venue as golf mags. where they have something for every level of participant, the very beginner to -------well what they already show.
Then there is what CF attributed too, When was the last time you saw a film image displayed?
--------------------
Clear Skies
Lawrie
Ultima 8
Atlas EQ-G
ZenithStar 80 FD
DSI Pro - Pro II
Canon 350D
|
John Jarosz
I'm being watched...
Reged: 04/25/04
Posts: 2192
Loc: Chicago area, IL
|
|
[quote It is like they don't realize what the majority of people in this hobby are,
You may or may not be right. I wonder what all the submissions to a magazine really are? It would be very interesting to sit in the editors chair and see what gets submitted. They can only publish what gets submitted.
John
--------------------
6" F4.6(w/Paracorr) GEM reflector, 8" F11 Dall Relay Scope
6" F5 RFT Refractor, Garrett Gemini 20x80 LW
|
|
3 registered and 3 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Charlie Hein, knuklhdastnmr
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 1382
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: 
