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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Beginning and Intermediate Imaging

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Ivo Jager
Vendor ( Star Tools )


Reged: 03/19/11

Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #5468854 - 10/13/12 08:15 PM

Quote:


Ivo - does the decon tool try and figure out over/under sample for decision to invoke? Ex. would it toggle in or out based on 6.2 arcsec/pixel vs. 1.2 arcsec/pixel? Just curious... I in general do not use it.




Applying deconvolution is up to the user. Basing the decision on just angular size unfortunately doesn't help much, as it is a combination of seeing, angular size, scope/lens/camera specs and signal quality that needs to be taken into account.
ST's Decon module allows for very fast previewing though, so it is easy to estimate whether Decon improves your image (if at all) and by how much.


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Ranger Tim
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/25/08

Loc: SE Idaho, USA
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Ivo Jager]
      #5469044 - 10/13/12 10:49 PM

I still can't get the Bin Tool, Deconvolution or several other tools to operate without getting hung or crashing on my MacBook Pro 2.7 GHz Intel Core i7 with 8GB of RAM. What am I doing wrong? I still use StarTools to stretch the image as it does a much better job than I do. Maybe I should try it in emulation with Parallels? And I should probably take this to the appropriate forum as well.

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Ivo Jager
Vendor ( Star Tools )


Reged: 03/19/11

Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Ranger Tim]
      #5469074 - 10/13/12 11:13 PM

Quote:

I still can't get the Bin Tool, Deconvolution or several other tools to operate without getting hung or crashing on my MacBook Pro 2.7 GHz Intel Core i7 with 8GB of RAM. What am I doing wrong? I still use StarTools to stretch the image as it does a much better job than I do. Maybe I should try it in emulation with Parallels?




Hi Tim,

Could you try the latest version 1.3.175 which was updated yesterday? It should solve a number of issues for MacOSX...

Quote:

And I should probably take this to the appropriate forum as well.




Bug reports and feedback on the StarTools forum is much appreciated - it helps others to easily find information and helps me find and fix bugs quicker!


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Eric Gage
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/13/05

Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: gustavo_sanchez]
      #5469182 - 10/14/12 12:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Nice Gustavo--do you still have the original process without Star Tools?




Sure, here it is:



This is before StarTools, the other is is posted a few posts above.




The results look very similar. Did you find that the processing was easier and/or faster with ST?


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Eric Gage
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/13/05

Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Ivo Jager]
      #5469193 - 10/14/12 12:49 AM

Quote:



Could you try the latest version 1.3.175 which was updated yesterday? It should solve a number of issues for MacOSX...




Thanks for the update. I'm finally going to get some imaging weather tomorrow, so I'm eager to try this. I assume that the update does not bring the OSX version into the 64 bit realm though, right? Will we still be limited to small files?


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Ivo Jager
Vendor ( Star Tools )


Reged: 03/19/11

Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Eric Gage]
      #5469280 - 10/14/12 03:38 AM

Quote:


Thanks for the update. I'm finally going to get some imaging weather tomorrow, so I'm eager to try this. I assume that the update does not bring the OSX version into the 64 bit realm though, right? Will we still be limited to small files?



Unfortunately that is the gist of it. Work on a 64-bit MacOSX version is scheduled after 1.3 hits release version. Developing for MacOSX is infuriatingly expensive to get started with if you don't yet own an Apple machine (Apple defacto requires you purchase an Apple computer in order to compile anything) and effectively forces any multi-platform development that involves cross-compiling be done on MacOSX itself (32-bit executables excepted). As StarTools is currently a loss-leading passion project, it is hard to justify the purchase of Mac, or the effort and time it takes to change over the build and development environment.
I understand the demand is there, but Apple's business practices, licensing restrictions and proprietary development tools make this platform very inaccessible for small-time multi-platform developers. That said, I'm committed to bring the full 64-bit experience to as many people as possible, no matter the OS. It will happen, but stabilising 1.3 has got the biggest priority right now.


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Mike7Mak
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Ivo Jager]
      #5469284 - 10/14/12 04:10 AM Attachment (70 downloads)

This is something of a milestone for me. Combining data from 2 images shot at different scales. I used the best 16 x 10min luminance frames from the 1500mm shot and the color data from the previous 2670mm shot. 6 x 20min each of Ha + O3.

I used Neb3 to calibrate, stack, and combine L and HOO files. Then I used it to 'translate, rotate, and scale' align the two image frames. Processed each separately in StarTools and then used the 'Layer' module to combine them. After that much trial and error processing of the combined LHOO image.

This is what I ended up with. I probably should have kept a better eye on the large halos forming around the brighter stars but by the time I noticed it there was no turning back.


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TimN
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/20/08

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5469414 - 10/14/12 08:50 AM

That's really nice Mike! You are really making good use of yor new machine and StarTools.

I'm also on a new 64 bit machine and I find the 174 and 175 versions to be very fast and stable. Like you, I have just been playing around with the order of processing. I find that I bin first - if I'm going to - then develop, crop and wipe. After that it doesn't seem to matter. My final step is always to take tracking off and the allow the automatic denoise.


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Mike7Mak
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: TimN]
      #5469534 - 10/14/12 10:32 AM

Thanks Tim. I think I liked it better last night when I posted it. Now it looks a little fuzzy to me. I'm gonna give it a do-over and try to get rid of the halos and smooth it out a bit.

Yeah the new machine is nice and StarTools 173 is running on it without problems.

I'm generally starting out with binned and resized up data (long focal lengths and tiny chip) so I 'Develop' to reveal the stacking edges, 'Crop' then 'Decon'. After that I do what I can to get the overall look I want before turning off 'Track' and doing noise reduction. That frees up a couple of other modules for tweaking the stars and a final bit of adjustment.


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Eric Gage
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/13/05

Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Ivo Jager]
      #5469669 - 10/14/12 11:52 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Thanks for the update. I'm finally going to get some imaging weather tomorrow, so I'm eager to try this. I assume that the update does not bring the OSX version into the 64 bit realm though, right? Will we still be limited to small files?



Unfortunately that is the gist of it. Work on a 64-bit MacOSX version is scheduled after 1.3 hits release version. Developing for MacOSX is infuriatingly expensive to get started with if you don't yet own an Apple machine (Apple defacto requires you purchase an Apple computer in order to compile anything) and effectively forces any multi-platform development that involves cross-compiling be done on MacOSX itself (32-bit executables excepted). As StarTools is currently a loss-leading passion project, it is hard to justify the purchase of Mac, or the effort and time it takes to change over the build and development environment.
I understand the demand is there, but Apple's business practices, licensing restrictions and proprietary development tools make this platform very inaccessible for small-time multi-platform developers. That said, I'm committed to bring the full 64-bit experience to as many people as possible, no matter the OS. It will happen, but stabilising 1.3 has got the biggest priority right now.




Ok, CN...who has a 64 bit Mac that they are not using? Let's get this done. Contact Ivo.


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Mike7Mak
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Eric Gage]
      #5470053 - 10/14/12 03:52 PM Attachment (57 downloads)

Ok I've had enough of this one. Here's another version not pushed so hard. I haven't figured out how to bring out the faint outer details on the nebula without blowing out those star halos.

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TimN
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/20/08

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5470120 - 10/14/12 04:32 PM

Mike, this one is a little sharper and has more jump. I like it.

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Ranger Tim
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/25/08

Loc: SE Idaho, USA
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: TimN]
      #5477638 - 10/18/12 07:43 PM

For those that are interested, Ivo has worked on the Mac version and it is now running correctly on my MacBook Pro very nicely. I appreciate having access to developer that cares enough to work on a fix like the world depended on it. I'm one happy camper again!

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Eric Gage
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/13/05

Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Ranger Tim]
      #5477669 - 10/18/12 08:17 PM

Tim,

I have a MBP. Ivo had told me that unless I bin the files, my DSLR images would be too large to be handled by ST. What is your set up and experience?

Eric


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Ranger Tim
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/25/08

Loc: SE Idaho, USA
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Eric Gage]
      #5478762 - 10/19/12 12:36 PM

Eric,

I'm using a 450D, self modded. I was having a hang and crash road block in StarTools, but Ivo worked on it this week and fixed my issues. My machine is a MBP 2.7 GHz Core 2 Duo w/ 8 Gigs of RAM and processes the TIFFs from DSS at native resolution now without much problem. It does take a moment to let the wheel spin on a few operations, but doesn't hang anymore - at least it hasn't in the last day or two! My files are around 4000 by 2500 pixels; I don't recall the exact size. I tried binning before and the files still didn't work. Whatever Ivo did yesterday morning fixed everything. No binning required. But I may still bin for other reasons. Kinda scared to go back to that tool

Give it a go. StarTools certainly has made the stretching process remarkably efficient for me and I really like the deconvolution and noise reduction tools. This program, coupled with Anna Morris' and Carboni's tools in Photoshop are a great complement. I stack in DSS, export a TIFF to StarTools, stretch and do other voodoo then save and open the TIFF in PS. There I saturate color using the LAB color enhancement that prevents luminosity from blowing out, revert back to SRGB and run Carboni's Star Color actions a few times. See my latest version of M33 on the thread "Back in the Saddle Again."

I have so much left to learn and am continuously reading these pages for helping hints. I feel like I can finally say that I've reached a level of some success, and that's a good feeling! Good luck with your efforts. I just wish I could support those who put out the products we use in a more substantial way. Perhaps we should start a hall of fame for them, i.e. Craig Starke, Carboni, Anna Morris, Jerry Lodriguss, Ivo Jaeger, to name just a few. Kudos to them all. Without them we would be working in the dark!


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beachchairbill
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/06/08

Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: shawnhar]
      #5500218 - 11/02/12 12:09 AM

Hi everyone,

I recently purchased Stae Tools and need your help with getting started with processing my pictures of Pleiades and the moon.

Right now I have been able to download my first picture into Star Tools but since I'm a beginner and can't find any manual for 1.3 what are my nent steps to enhance this picture.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Beachchairbill


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Mike7Mak
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: beachchairbill]
      #5500371 - 11/02/12 03:33 AM

Hi Bill,

There's a downloadable pdf manual and tutorials on this page...

http://startools.org/drupal/node/28

Generally speaking, if I'm starting with an unstretched fits file the first thing I do is select 'unstretched' at the first dialog. This turns on 'tracking' so the program monitors noise creation in further steps and removes it when you turn off 'tracking'. Then I do 'Develop or Autodev' to stretch the image enough to see what's going on. Then 'Crop' to remove black stacking borders. (edit...leave 'tracking' on as long as possible.)

After that it depends on the image what you do next. It's easy to just try and cancel almost every tool to see its effects without messing up the image.

Edited by Mike7Mak (11/02/12 03:40 AM)


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beachchairbill
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/06/08

Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5501054 - 11/02/12 02:27 PM

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the heads up and will give all of you suggestion a try and then give you an update.

Bill Shea


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beachchairbill
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/06/08

Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: beachchairbill]
      #5502678 - 11/03/12 05:23 PM

Hi Mike,

I've read this whole thread and have picked up a lot of hints regarding the steps to follow when getting started.

I did note that their was very little said about stacking and it's process.

I have 8 pictures that I would like to stack to come up with one best picture. The question is when do I start this process. At the start, after crop, etc.

Also, does each picture have to be of perfect size and if so, howe do you get to this point?

Thanks

Bill Shea


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TimN
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/20/08

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Processing Software - StarTools new [Re: beachchairbill]
      #5502717 - 11/03/12 05:47 PM

Bill, StarTools doesn't stack. So first you stack with another program. I use the free program Deep Sky Stacker (DSS). When you run it save the output to to a Tiff file. That's the file you load into StarTools.

DSS is fairly easy to use - I just use the recommended defaults. If you have a problem - just ask. It's probably the most common stacking program used.


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