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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Beginning and Intermediate Imaging

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Jarrod
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Imaging with the Celestron AVX?
      #5949633 - 07/01/13 01:08 PM

I've had my eye on the AVX since it came out. I'm thinking of getting this mount while it's on sale.

What would be a good scope to pair with this mount, to do mainly deep space imaging with a DSLR?


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CounterWeight
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5949688 - 07/01/13 01:35 PM

just wanted to ask a question back. DSO include both in our galaxy and outside it. In our galaxy are the beautiful nebula(HII regions, emission, reflection), clusters, asterisms. Outside it are the other galaxies and galaxy groups. So when you say DSO it still requires a bit more thinking.

Deciding on a scope best for the objects considered I just want to recommend the two parameters to consider are 'fast' focal ratio, and 'flat'. Scope sometime are one without the other, and getting the 'flat' part requires another piece of the puzzle.

That said - there's learning to image , and my standard recommendation is a short fast widefield refractor (with a field flattener) and any/all adaptors, rings, extender tubes. That and an autoguider like the Orion miniguider/SSAG using PHD software.

Edited by CounterWeight (07/01/13 01:36 PM)


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Jarrod
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #5949714 - 07/01/13 01:46 PM

Quote:

just wanted to ask a question back. DSO include both in our galaxy and outside it. In our galaxy are the beautiful nebula(HII regions, emission, reflection), clusters, asterisms. Outside it are the other galaxies and galaxy groups. So when you say DSO it still requires a bit more thinking.





Well, both but I do understand that different FOV requirements require different scopes (or significant cropping, and thus lower resolution). If I had to prioritize, I'd say that other galaxies > local DSOs. For larger DSO's maybe I could just throw my camera on the mount with the 70-200 f/4 lens. With the 1.4x telextender I can get 280mm at f/5.6. Not sure how that compares to a widefield refractor - but I guess that lens *is* a widefield refractor

Edited by Jarrod (07/01/13 02:10 PM)


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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5949797 - 07/01/13 02:29 PM

In my opinion, the AVX is decidely non-optimum for galaxy imaging. I did this with the CG-5 and although the AVX is somewhat better, it still does not have roller bearings in the declination axis.

That makes guiding at longer focal lengths problematic unless your polar alignment is very good (which is what I did with the CG-5).

I got an Atlas and the difference is large. However, if portability is a concern, an Atlas is portable only in the loosest sense.


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cn register 5
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Reged: 12/26/12

Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: Madratter]
      #5949932 - 07/01/13 03:46 PM

Condemning a mount, untried, because of some prejudice about its construction with experience of what it can do seems deeply irrational to me.

The reality, from someone who has used it, is that the AVX guides excellently, far better than the CG-5. The improvements that Celestron have made allow this.

The largest mount I've used is a 6" F/9 RC with a ST80 piggybacked as a guider, total weight 25lbs.

Chris


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Jeff2011
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: Madratter]
      #5949936 - 07/01/13 03:47 PM

I can add to what the Madratter is saying in that I encounter a lot of problems during guiding with the declination. I finally had to resort to finding which way it was drifting in Dec and set PHD to send commands only in the opposite direction. This helped a lot, but I agree that this mount is not optimal for longer focal length scopes.

I don't know how the Orion Sirius mount stacks up, if you are looking for a more portable mount. Perhaps someone with experience with this mount can comment.

Edit:
I agree that this mount is not optimal for a beginner with longer focal length scopes.


Edited by Jeff2011 (07/01/13 04:14 PM)


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WarmWeatherGuy
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5949964 - 07/01/13 04:01 PM

Quote:

I've had my eye on the AVX since it came out. I'm thinking of getting this mount while it's on sale.

What would be a good scope to pair with this mount, to do mainly deep space imaging with a DSLR?




The AT72ED. You might want to also get a field flattener after you get some experience taking and processing the images.

https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech-at72ed-72mm-refractor-telescope-black_...

Here is a picture I took with that scope.

http://www.astrobin.com/25052/

The scope is relatively small and light, fast (f/6), and has a wide field of view (focal length = 432mm). These things make it easy to get great pictures. There are many targets that require such a scope so it is not like training wheels where you discard them when you're done. This will be a scope you will want to keep even after you decide to use longer lenses.


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CounterWeight
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: WarmWeatherGuy]
      #5949967 - 07/01/13 04:03 PM

Steve that is a great point. I remember something though about was it the 72 that had no accommodation for a finder / miniguider out of the box? If I am incorrect please let me know. There are many 80mm scopes that do.

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Jeff2011
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #5949978 - 07/01/13 04:09 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

Jim,

You are correct. I added a synta/orion style finder mount from Scope Stuff to my AT72ED.

The iphone pic is a little fuzzy, but here is my setup with the 72. The mini came with a finder mount, but the Scope Stuff one fit better.

Also, I had some issues with some focuser droop, so I added a 2" extender so that I don't have to draw the focuser back that far.


Edited by Jeff2011 (07/01/13 05:30 PM)


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WarmWeatherGuy
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #5949983 - 07/01/13 04:11 PM

Quote:

Steve that is a great point. I remember something though about was it the 72 that had no accommodation for a finder / miniguider out of the box? If I am incorrect please let me know. There are many 80mm scopes that do.




Yes, that is true, and it is certainly an obstacle to overcome. I use a side-by-side system and hadn't thought of that. Thanks for reminding us.


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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: cn register 5]
      #5950027 - 07/01/13 04:54 PM

Quote:

Condemning a mount, untried, because of some prejudice about its construction with experience of what it can do seems deeply irrational to me.

The reality, from someone who has used it, is that the AVX guides excellently, far better than the CG-5. The improvements that Celestron have made allow this.

The largest mount I've used is a 6" F/9 RC with a ST80 piggybacked as a guider, total weight 25lbs.

Chris




I guess I'm going to have to stick with that irrational label. For what it is worth, I have read considerably about the mount including posts by you before coming to this conclusion.

At the end of day, however, it is just an opinion.

EDIT: I'll add that I read the AVX mount threads with a great deal of interest since I wanted to get something that was better suited for imaging than my CG-5. I ended up buying the Atlas despite the fact it meant a much bigger outlay in money. And the money certainly was a consideration. So in this particular case, my opinion, although apparently irrational, did directly influence my own behavior. In other words, I put my additional money where my mouth is.

Edited by Madratter (07/01/13 06:00 PM)


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JoseBorrero
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: Jeff2011]
      #5950222 - 07/01/13 07:31 PM

Look great! just need to survive dew
Quote:

Jim,

You are correct. I added a synta/orion style finder mount from Scope Stuff to my AT72ED.

The iphone pic is a little fuzzy, but here is my setup with the 72. The mini came with a finder mount, but the Scope Stuff one fit better.

Also, I had some issues with some focuser droop, so I added a 2" extender so that I don't have to draw the focuser back that far.





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Jeff2011
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: JoseBorrero]
      #5950625 - 07/02/13 12:21 AM

Two other accessories I forgot to mention. A 7 inch vixen dovetail bar and a 7.5 lb counter weight. The dovetail bar provided for better balancing, and the 11 lb weight that came with the mount was too heavy for this configuration. I got the 7.5 lb weight from Orion.

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Jarrod
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: cn register 5]
      #5951054 - 07/02/13 10:22 AM

Quote:


The largest mount I've used is a 6" F/9 RC with a ST80 piggybacked as a guider, total weight 25lbs.




The two recs I got here so far (AT6RC and AT72ED) were the two I was looking at. I guess I'm on the right track. Didn't find too many posts on the RC, though... Maybe I was looking in the wrong place? Where do those users hang out? Or is it not very popular because it is so specialized?

Edited by Jarrod (07/02/13 10:28 AM)


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Jarrod
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: Madratter]
      #5951069 - 07/02/13 10:27 AM

We all know there are bigger, better mounts for more money. I asked a specific question and I'd love to hear (and see images) from people who already use the AVX for astrophotography.

Not going to spend 3x for an Atlas.


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Madratter
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5951089 - 07/02/13 10:43 AM

That is of course your choice. But my comments were and are directed at the question you asked. Specifically, the mount will be a good match for the AT72ED. However, in my opinion, it is not a good match for galaxies and it is not a good match for an AT6RC at F/9.

If you ask for advice, don't shoot people when they give it to you, whether it is what you want to hear or not.

You can go to the Mount forum today and read a message from someone who has this mount that wishes it had roller bearings on the declination axis. I'll save you the effort of finding it. See the post by ETXuser here:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5945171/page...

In addition, with the AT6RC you are going to be pushing the weight. Although the mount is rated for 30 pounds, the rule of thumb is those weights are for visual use. For imaging the rule is you normally chop it in half. Once you add in the other equipment like cameras, etc., you will probably be well over the 15 pounds that would be half.

That is not to say it can't be made to work. Specifically, any wonkiness (technical term) in the declination axis can always get fixed with better polar alignment. But in my opinion, you are setting yourself up for some grief, especially if you tear down and setup every night.

EDIT: As for images, see this link for various examples on Astrobin:

http://www.astrobin.com/gear/11578/celestron-advanced-vx/

Edited by Madratter (07/02/13 11:01 AM)


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Jeff2011
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: Madratter]
      #5951158 - 07/02/13 11:23 AM

At a focal length of 430mm the AT72ED is meant for wider angle shots like nebulas. To get good nebulas, you will need a modded DSLR or a CCD.

I originally had plans to get an AT6RC. At 13 lbs plus accessories the mount should be able to handle the weight just fine assuming you go with the mini guide scope option. The problem I have with that scope is its slow speed at F9. Since this scope has been out of stock it has given me time to think and I have now ordered an AT6IN (Imaging Newt). At F4 it is very fast. Coma comes into play, but I already have a baader coma corrector. The focal length is still short at 610mm, but I think this scope is a good compromise. Last I looked Astronomics still has these in stock and at a price less than what I paid for my guide camera. As an initial learning scope the AT72ED is the way to go. Plus I use my AT72ED as a grab and go and at my clubs outreach events. It is a good all around scope.

The Dec problem with the AVX that Madratter talks about is a real issue that I have encountered. I have been able to mitigate this by configuring PHD only to send guide commands in the direction opposite of the drift. Before I did this the Dec swung wildly. When switching directions in Dec the mount took so long to react that it messed up PHD.

All of the following images were taken with my AVX mount. I am just a beginner, so take that into consideration.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeff-guck-in-die-luft/sets/72157633228178182/


Edited by Jeff2011 (07/02/13 11:40 AM)


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Holltim4103
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: Jeff2011]
      #5951247 - 07/02/13 12:10 PM

I absolutely love my AVX mount. I primarily use an Orion 8 inch Newtonian F3.9 with a Canon XSI (450D - not modified). It is a heavy setup however I can regularly get 180 second unguided subs with a good polar alignment. (I use BYEOS to get a precise polar alignment with the ASPA in the hand controller) I can image galaxies but I especially love imaging nebulas with this setup. I also have an Orion PIAG but haven't used it much because I find it more of a pain to use as I am still learning how to use it.

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John Miele
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5951396 - 07/02/13 01:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:


The largest mount I've used is a 6" F/9 RC with a ST80 piggybacked as a guider, total weight 25lbs.




The two recs I got here so far (AT6RC and AT72ED) were the two I was looking at. I guess I'm on the right track. Didn't find too many posts on the RC, though... Maybe I was looking in the wrong place? Where do those users hang out? Or is it not very popular because it is so specialized?




Hmmm...as other have noted, these are two VERY different scopes for VERY different types of imaging goals. As a beginner I'd get the AT72 and then later compliment it with the AT6 after you know what you are doing and have vetted out your mount and guiding skills...John


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WarmWeatherGuy
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Re: Imaging with the Celestron AVX? [Re: Jeff2011]
      #5951485 - 07/02/13 03:06 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

Quote:

Jim,

You are correct. I added a synta/orion style finder mount from Scope Stuff to my AT72ED.

The iphone pic is a little fuzzy, but here is my setup with the 72. The mini came with a finder mount, but the Scope Stuff one fit better.

Also, I had some issues with some focuser droop, so I added a 2" extender so that I don't have to draw the focuser back that far.





How did you attach the guider to the OTA? On my AT72ED there is only a single, very tiny, screw which looks like it is meant to hold the telescope together, not to attach something to it with.

If it is from ScopeStuff could you provide a link?

Thanks.


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