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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Beginning and Intermediate Imaging

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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: nodalpoint]
      #6159905 - 10/26/13 10:21 PM

I heartily recommend going to the mount forum and reading the various threads on the AVX. You might need an afternoon to do it. But the bottom line is that although the bearings in the AVX are improved over the CG-5, they still suffer from some of the same problems. Some people do love them. For visual work I loved my CG-5. You'll see that reading the threads too. Hey, I was able to make my CG-5 work imaging with my C8. It was a constant source of frustration, but I did make it work.

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Jeff2011
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Reged: 01/01/13

Loc: Sugar Land, TX
Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: Madratter]
      #6160014 - 10/27/13 12:07 AM

The dec issue is not just with the CG5 and AVX, the CGEM also appears to have or have had this issue. See the following CN article.

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2702


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Raginar
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Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: nodalpoint]
      #6160481 - 10/27/13 10:35 AM

Ok, I'll chime in. Either get a smaller scope or get a bigger mount. Terry speaks from years of experience. He isn't just trying to spend your money. We all have been through having cheap mounts that can't quite make the cut. It's frustrating and your 800 bucks is wasted.

Go over to astrobin and do some equipment searches. You'll see what size telescope you can fit on what mount.

You bought too big of a scope for a portable mount.


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mamamia
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Reged: 10/11/13

Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: Raginar]
      #6160510 - 10/27/13 10:51 AM

Quote:

Ok, I'll chime in. Either get a smaller scope or get a bigger mount. Terry speaks from years of experience. He isn't just trying to spend your money. We all have been through having cheap mounts that can't quite make the cut. It's frustrating and your 800 bucks is wasted.

Go over to astrobin and do some equipment searches. You'll see what size telescope you can fit on what mount.

You bought too big of a scope for a portable mount.




Smaller scope that 102mm Triplet? My initial thought was 127mm then I decided go smaller and got an 102mm its already on its way. I thought AVX would probably handle 102mm if it handles heavier 9.25 SCT like Celestron sells as AP package.


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Wmacky
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Reged: 11/24/07

Loc: Florida
Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: mamamia]
      #6160537 - 10/27/13 11:05 AM

Celestron is wrong.

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Jeff2011
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Reged: 01/01/13

Loc: Sugar Land, TX
Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: Wmacky]
      #6160568 - 10/27/13 11:21 AM

That setup may work for visual and planetary AP, but not DSO AP. Most mount sellers try to overstate things a bit. The rule of thumb is that the scope plus accessories (camera, adapters, flatteners, guiding equipment, etc) should not exceed half the mount payload. Counterweights not included generally. But there are also other factors like balance and length of scope. Newts are hard to balance and refractors can be long.

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mamamia
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Reged: 10/11/13

Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: Wmacky]
      #6160579 - 10/27/13 11:27 AM

Quote:

Celestron is wrong.




ahha! can you please elaborate


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Wmacky
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Reged: 11/24/07

Loc: Florida
Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: mamamia]
      #6160694 - 10/27/13 12:45 PM

I believe that package being sold as an AP rig, has more to do with marketing than reality. The worst place to go for advice on how to spend your money is a mass market manufacturer.

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Stelios
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Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: West Hills, CA
Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: Wmacky]
      #6160732 - 10/27/13 01:08 PM

Quote:

I believe that package being sold as an AP rig, has more to do with marketing than reality. The worst place to go for advice on how to spend your money is a mass market manufacturer.




Some of us can only afford a "mass-market manufacturer." I'd love to get an AP (Astro-Physics) mount, but it just won't happen, like I'll never have a Bentley or my wife a Birkin bag.

The CG-5 (and therefore the AVX) *will* happily carry a well-balanced 9.25" for visual with dead-on GoTo's (and an 11" although not quite so happily).

AP is another story, of course. I accept the common wisdom of 1/2 the rated capacity of the mount (and the CG-5 has other AP issues as I'm learning).

But are mount capacities rated equally? Or is marketing at work again? The Sirius is rated 30 lbs, but it looks more massive than the 35-lb rated CG-5. One of *my* big questions is whether the Sirius will support 20-22 lb for AP, especially if one upgrades the tripod. And then there's the ieq45 that supposedly can carry 45lbs--but "doesn't look it."

My situation is near-identical to the OP's. The Atlas/CGEM/G11 are simply too heavy for me. If I ever get a permanent observatory, I'd consider them (the G11 would have to be used), but that would require relocating which is not in the cards for several years.

Edited by Stelios (10/27/13 01:09 PM)


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Raginar
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Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: Stelios]
      #6160776 - 10/27/13 01:52 PM

Stelios, no they're not. That's why you get a pretty cynical response in the imaging forums about what equipment to buy. Trust me, we've all been there and bought the cheap hoping it would work out. But, we loved the hobby and have continued onwards... And spent quite a bit more than if we'd just bought the 'good stuff'.

The question really is, what's your patience threshold? My Mi-250 takes pictures all night long and I quite literally just turn it on and it works. My CGEM? I spent hours tinkering. Oops, NexRemote crashed! Restart. Oops, had to reset the HC and forgot to reset backlash to 0... Oh, and that 8/3 harmonic thing? Don't worry about that, we'll make a software fix for that... some day. If we don't need the engineers to work on our new products.

I guess if I could have done it all over, I would've either bought a CG-5, a ED80 of some type, a mini-guider setup, and a Canon DSLR. That's about as basic as it gets with good results. If you're thinking about anything bigger than that initially, you might as well spend the money. Quality is everything.

Mamamia, Wmacky isn't trying to sound harsh. He, like most of us, has seen the common mistakes 'noobs' make. Yes, Celestron greatly over-estimates the capabilities of their mounts. Yes, you *can* take pictures with a C8 on an AVX. I'm willing to bet most people are throwing away 69% of their images on that setup. If you're gonna buy a mount on the cheap, find a used CG-5 and get a slightly smaller scope (ED80) that is more forgiving from a weight/moment arm/focal length standpoint.

But, an AVX is just a fancy CG-5. If you search 'beginner and AP' you'll find about 1000 of these (including mine from 2 years ago) and it'll say the same thing .


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mamamia
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Reged: 10/11/13

Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: Raginar]
      #6161499 - 10/27/13 09:08 PM

I spent a lot of time today afternoon on Astrobin looking at images taken by Sirius EQ-G, CG, AVX. I have to say I was impressed with Pictures from Sirius EQ-G. I am mostly leaning towards Sirius right now but still have one concern.

I noticed most the Sirius EQ-G pictures were taken with a 80mm or smaller scopes. My new ES 102 ED Weighs more than an 80mm scope. Now I can't change the scope is there any other ways to compensate it with low weight accessories so that the payload is kept within the optimal mount tracking range.


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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: mamamia]
      #6161514 - 10/27/13 09:18 PM

The most important thing you can do if you are overweight is be careful about balancing the scope. Careful balance is NOT exactly balanced. You want to be slightly east heavy on the RA axis. The key word is slightly. Also, you need to be balanced in both RA and declination. That is important.

Also, having more weight and the longer moment arm of the 102 ED will mean less tolerance for things like wind.

All that said, the carbon fiber 102 ED isn't all that heavy at around 7 pounds. I don't know what the steel tube version will weigh but it probably isn't prohibitively heavy.


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mamamia
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Reged: 10/11/13

Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: Madratter]
      #6161532 - 10/27/13 09:30 PM

Quote:

The most important thing you can do if you are overweight is be careful about balancing the scope. Careful balance is NOT exactly balanced. You want to be slightly east heavy on the RA axis. The key word is slightly. Also, you need to be balanced in both RA and declination. That is important.

Also, having more weight and the longer moment arm of the 102 ED will mean less tolerance for things like wind.

All that said, the carbon fiber 102 ED isn't all that heavy at around 7 pounds. I don't know what the steel tube version will weigh but it probably isn't prohibitively heavy.




Its 11 Lbs without accessories.


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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: mamamia]
      #6161567 - 10/27/13 10:00 PM

So around a pound for the 50mm guider and guide camera and then another couple pounds for your camera and your Ok. Not great but Ok. A 50mm guider is all you need. Actually a CCD camera and filter wheel can be 4 or 5 pounds so you could be a little over. There isn't anything magic about 1/2 the rating, but it is a good rule of thumb.

Edited by Madratter (10/27/13 10:02 PM)


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mamamia
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Reged: 10/11/13

Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: Madratter]
      #6161612 - 10/27/13 10:35 PM

Quote:

So around a pound for the 50mm guider and guide camera and then another couple pounds for your camera and your Ok. Not great but Ok. A 50mm guider is all you need. Actually a CCD camera and filter wheel can be 4 or 5 pounds so you could be a little over. There isn't anything magic about 1/2 the rating, but it is a good rule of thumb.




Thanks, also a field flatenner. BTW can I add extra counter weight to compensate for overweight.


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Raginar
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Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: mamamia]
      #6161678 - 10/28/13 12:08 AM

It doesn't really matter. Weight is weight. It should come with enough counter balance. Btw, one mount not on your list is an ieq25. There are some amazing reviews on it.

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mamamia
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Reged: 10/11/13

Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: Raginar]
      #6161698 - 10/28/13 12:31 AM

Quote:

It doesn't really matter. Weight is weight. It should come with enough counter balance. Btw, one mount not on your list is an ieq25. There are some amazing reviews on it.




I am extremely skeptical about iOptron offerrings, they are pretty much an CHinese Buffet approach more features and poor quality.


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terry59
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Reged: 07/18/11

Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: mamamia]
      #6161724 - 10/28/13 12:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

It doesn't really matter. Weight is weight. It should come with enough counter balance. Btw, one mount not on your list is an ieq25. There are some amazing reviews on it.




I am extremely skeptical about iOptron offerrings, they are pretty much an CHinese Buffet approach more features and poor quality.




How about a Losmandy GM-8?


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orlyandico
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: terry59]
      #6161737 - 10/28/13 01:06 AM

hahaha. funny. and in the other thread they are saying 8 arc-seconds peak-to-peak periodic error on the ZEQ25. That's (almost) Astro-Physics level and way better than any Losmandy GM8 or Sirius or Atlas. If true.. I have yet to see a proper PECPrep screenshot.

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mamamia
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Reged: 10/11/13

Re: EQ Mount for Long Exposure AP new [Re: terry59]
      #6161841 - 10/28/13 04:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

It doesn't really matter. Weight is weight. It should come with enough counter balance. Btw, one mount not on your list is an ieq25. There are some amazing reviews on it.




I am extremely skeptical about iOptron offerrings, they are pretty much an CHinese Buffet approach more features and poor quality.




How about a Losmandy GM-8?




Out of my budget range.


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