Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4338
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
Apart from the wait (current list goes back to August 2001, according to Marj on the AP Yahoo group) how does the Mach1GTO stack up against the competition? Portability and likely performance when PEC-trained are very attractive, and the 45lb load is probably enough for what I need.
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
Paul G
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/08/03
Posts: 1751
Loc: Freedonia
|
|
Here's how it tracks without the PEC turned on, carrrying a 155 f/7 scope:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug/message/34609
Roland has said it will hold his 10" Mak-Cass. I'm on the waiting list, would love to have a more portable option for the 155 and the 10" than the 900 GTO.
--------------------
Gus
|
LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 6773
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
|
|
Speculation, but it look like it is about the same as the G11 for portability.
I find the 900 more portable then my CGE, but the portable pier is more of a pain the set up then a tripod. I will be adapting the head to mount on my CGE tripod.
--------------------
AP900,LXD75
AP140EDF, TSA102, ZS80EDII
SN6-OTA, C8-OTA
Canon 20D, 350Hutech
PST, Lunt LD60T/DS (on order)
|
Jeff Young
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Ireland
|
|
Ben --
While it didn't make your importance list, one of my favorite features of the AP mounts is their handbox:
Works when cold; has tactile feedback; screen has more than two lines for menus; key contacts don't go flaky. (The one thing I miss compared to Meade's Autostar is the inclusion of object sizes in the database. But the AP database does include double stars, which is nice.)
-- Jeff.
--------------------
Nikon 18x70s / UA Millennium Colorado:
Solarscope SF70 / TV Pronto / AP400QMD Coronado SolarMax40 DS / Bogen 055+3130
APM MC1610 / Tak FC-100 / AP1200GTO Tak Mewlon 250 / AP600EGTO
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4338
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
Yeah, I've heard the AP handbox is good. Still, I can cope with Gemini (like it, even) so I guess i'm either nuts or can deal with most things. 
One way or another an AP mount will replace the G11 at some point. The Mach1 seems ideal for my needs, although the wait is a bit irritating. Still, i'd likely get a mount before I get my 160EDF...
The other alternative is the 1200, that would be quicker and fill my mount needs for the next 20 years or so. Getting it over here would be a bit of a pain though.
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
M13 Observer
super member
Reged: 12/09/06
Posts: 140
|
|
Quote:
Speculation, but it look like it is about the same as the G11 for portability.
I find the 900 more portable then my CGE, but the portable pier is more of a pain the set up then a tripod. I will be adapting the head to mount on my CGE tripod.
I don't recall offhand if I have posted this yet. Here is a Mach1GTO nestled in a Pelican 1560 case for transport complete with hand controller, electronics, counterweight shaft and dovetail plate under it. The axes have not been taken apart; just rotated 180 degrees to make the package as compact as possible without doing so. The 1560 features wheels and a pull out handle for easy rolling. The size specs for the 1560 case are plastered all over the web. Just google it.
I have a tripod style pier and counterweights in a hard shell golf case.
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4338
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
Wow!
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
M13 Observer
super member
Reged: 12/09/06
Posts: 140
|
|
Quote:
I have a tripod style pier and counterweights in a hard shell golf case.
and it looks like this:
|
M13 Observer
super member
Reged: 12/09/06
Posts: 140
|
|
Quote:
I have a tripod style pier and counterweights in a hard shell golf case.
At least for now anyway. That tripod is inadequate for imaging with the Mach1GTO but is fine for visual with a small to medium refractor. Note that this is the tripods fault and has NOTHING to do with the Mach1 itself. IMHO the Mach1 blows away the G-11, but I am biased. I fell in love with AP stuff when I started buying the odd accessory. The quality is amazing.
As you can see there is a lot of room left over in the golf bag and that is for the new pier when it arrives (and I'll leave that alone for now). The counterweights and leg spreader are inside of and under the foam immediately under the tripod. The foam will probably require re-fitting once the new pier arrives. At the very top of the case is a 12V 2/10/12A electronic battery charger to charge 12V car /deep cycle/ gel / mat batteries.
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4338
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
Quote:
IMHO the Mach1 blows away the G-11, but I am biased. I fell in love with AP stuff when I started buying the odd accessory.
To be fair it is twice the price of the G11
I fell in love with AP stuff when I looked through my refractor... 
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
LittleDob
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/10/04
Posts: 1443
Loc: Here or there
|
|
With respect to the initial post, what competition is there to the Mach1? Immediate response would be the EM200 - similar weight, capacity, tracking (though the Mach1 has PEC and will ultimately track better), and price.
Between the two, I'd opt for the Mach1 because:
1) better tracking with PEC
2) the AP handset - the weak link of Tak mounts.
3) resale value - offset higher cost and ridiculous wait.
4) aesthetic - personal to be sure.
If we set capacity as the standard, I don't think there is another mount out there that will touch the performance of the Mach1 - but it comes at a paralyzing cost.
If we set cost as the standard, then there are mounts like the MI-250, and even to some extent a used NJP or EM400. These mounts have higher capacity, but lack the portability of the Mach1.
Jason
--------------------
Jason
"Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice." Will Durant
NexStar 11 GPS
WO 80mm 10th Anniversary
TEC140 #360 
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4338
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
Quote:
With respect to the initial post, what competition is there to the Mach1?
That's a fair point. I guess I was thinking at first of price and the space between the CGE/G11 and the big guns of the AP900/1200, Paramount ME and the big Taks. In that gap there's the EM200, MI250, Titan, NJP (just about). But portability is an issue; if I decided that I didn't care then I think i'd bite the bullet and start saving for the AP1200. I don't need the capacity, but that would be insurance against anything i'd want to do in the next decade or two. And I think lack of portability means that the MI250, Titan and NJP are out.
I like the potential performance of the PEC-trained Mach 1, I like AP build quality ... and I hate the wait...
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
Jeff Young
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Ireland
|
|
Ben --
If you don't need the capacity but like the portability... and you'd like to get something sooner than later... have you considered a used AP600EGTO?
You can find info here: http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/mounts/600egto/600egto , including pictures of it loaded with a 130EDFS and with a 155EDFS.
(But no, mine's not for sale. )
-- Jeff.
--------------------
Nikon 18x70s / UA Millennium Colorado:
Solarscope SF70 / TV Pronto / AP400QMD Coronado SolarMax40 DS / Bogen 055+3130
APM MC1610 / Tak FC-100 / AP1200GTO Tak Mewlon 250 / AP600EGTO
|
btschumy
Think Astronomy
Reged: 04/13/04
Posts: 1107
Loc: Austin, TX, USA
|
|
Has anyone (say from AP) made a statement on how fast they will fill the backorders? I know they were ramping up production capability. I just got on the list about 1 year ago. Are we talking another 1 year wait or a 4 year wait with the new production capacity?
--------------------
Bill Tschumy
Where is M13? Freeware -- Add a new dimension to your observing.
|
M13 Observer
super member
Reged: 12/09/06
Posts: 140
|
|
Quote:
Has anyone (say from AP) made a statement on how fast they will fill the backorders? I know they were ramping up production capability. I just got on the list about 1 year ago. Are we talking another 1 year wait or a 4 year wait with the new production capacity?
Depends on what you are waiting for. Apparently AP1200 mounts are close to off the shelf items, which in AP terms means probably on the current production run which happens yearly give or take. It looks like the AP900 has a slightly longer wait - maybe a year and a half but that is due to what I perceive to be a slightly lower demand - the why get a 900 when for only a "little" more, one can get a 1200 syndrome. It too is almost classed as "off the shelf". Marj recently stated that the Mach1GTO list goes back quite a ways yet due to the requirement for leadless solder in Europe which will be available with this production run and the fact that the combined AP400/600 list is quite long. No actual dates were given but a two year wait probably wouldn't be out of the question.
Now, if it is a scope you are waiting for well, .. . .
|
Doug D.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1299
Loc: Virginia
|
|
I've been on the 400/600 wait list for quite some time now (3 years I think) and although notified by AP about the Mach 1 in the early Spring of 06, didn't make the first run. From what I gather though, my number will be up for the second run.
I've come awfully close to getting a G11 or an EM200 in the meantime but resisted thus far.....
--------------------
Refractors mostly.... solar and dark sky.
Charlottesville
|
Samir Kharusi
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/14/05
Posts: 626
Loc: Oman
|
|
Quote:
The other alternative is the 1200, that would be quicker and fill my mount needs for the next 20 years or so. Getting it over here would be a bit of a pain though.
It's actually no pain at all. AP air-freighted my AP1200 to Oman with no hassle at all from my side. The only hassle I had was clearing it through customs. They have this thing against telescopes and surveillance equipment. But they ended up thinking it was planetarium equipment
--------------------
Bored? Peruse my website:
http://www.samirkharusi.net/
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4338
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
Quote:
If you don't need the capacity but like the portability... and you'd like to get something sooner than later... have you considered a used AP600EGTO?
Nice suggestion, but I don't think the AP600 has the capacity I need - my AP tube rings are getting on for 10lbs on their own, so with a 16lb OTA (plus piggybacked 80mm refractor) i'd be running the mount a bit over capacity before counting eyepieces, CCD and the like. The Mach1 has that bit of extra capacity I need.
So I find myself on another long-term AP waiting list, although this time it's one that I can realistically hope will deliver me something at some point (I don't seriously expect to ever see a 160EDF, although it would be nice if I did). My guess is 12-24 months for this one, hopefully that's not too optimistic
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 6773
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
|
|
The 900 list is shorter.
--------------------
AP900,LXD75
AP140EDF, TSA102, ZS80EDII
SN6-OTA, C8-OTA
Canon 20D, 350Hutech
PST, Lunt LD60T/DS (on order)
|
PhilG
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 1098
Loc: Denver, CO - USA
|
|
Hey there M13, that's a great looking mount and travel setup. What scope are you currently using on it? I'm on the Mach1GTO wait list, about 1-1/2 years and currently have the EM200, which is an excellent mount. Do you think the Mach1 would be a significantly better performer on a 150-160mm size refractor?
Phil
--------------------
--------------------
Stellarvue SV115, SV90TBV, 80EDU, M1
Celestron C9.25, C102F
AP MACH1GTO, Discmount DM-4, Takahashi Teegul Lapides
SBIG ST-10XME, Astrodon Filters
Explora-Dome (in the backyard waiting to be put up!)
http://www.infiniti-eng.com/astrophotos
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4338
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
Quote:
The 900 list is shorter.
Yeah, but at the current price it makes more sense to find the extra $1000 or so and buy the 1200.
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
Neil
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/21/04
Posts: 502
Loc: Nottingham, England
|
|
Quote:
Yeah, but at the current price it makes more sense to find the extra $1000 or so and buy the 1200.
Ben, I've followed this thread for a few days now and after watching your other thread in the OBS section I kinda feel that you need portability a little less than a great payload and 'observatory class' mount.
If I were you I would order the 1200, as when you get used to being able to switch on and observe within 3 minutes maximum, that takes some beating to be honest.
I am in a similiar situation, regarding a portable mount, if only Paramount made a smaller mount, like the ap600, em200 et al I would order one yesterday.
Going back to my original point though, I think you are talking yourself into a 1200 anyway, and who could blame you....great choice.....go for it.....I don't think you'll regret it...... 
Regards, Neil.
--------------------
TMB 105/650, Meade LX200R 14", Pentax 75 SDHF
Paramount ME with version E power board,
Canon 450D unmodded,
And a patient wife!
Observatory 'Holmfirth' now built.
Clear skies people!
|
LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 6773
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
|
|
Yeah, the price difference is close.
--------------------
AP900,LXD75
AP140EDF, TSA102, ZS80EDII
SN6-OTA, C8-OTA
Canon 20D, 350Hutech
PST, Lunt LD60T/DS (on order)
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4338
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
Neil - there's a lot of sense to what you say, and its true that - whatever I pick - it will mostly be used in an observatory (if I went for the 1200 it would always be used in the observatory, the Mach1 would sometimes go elsewhere).
I find myself a bit fed up with the G11. For visual use it's excellent, but for imaging it is fine guided at 384mm focal length (the TMB80/480) but is no good unguided at that focal length and I haven't yet got it autoguiding at 1080mm focal length (the AP130) either. It also can't be PEC trained. I remain hopeful that once I have it mounted in the observatory I can get it tuned to perform a bit better, but I'm thinking that i'm going to have to step up a level. Ideally I don't want to have to care about my mount at all, I just want it to work.
The Mach1 combines +/- 3.5" PE (and PEC) with the payload I need and a reasonable (albeit not cheap) price. But why knows when i'd get one? The 1200 is reasonably quick these days but lots of $$$ and (much) more capacity than I need - however, if I look at it over a decade of (hopefully trouble-free) use then...
Mmm, choices, choices.
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 6773
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
|
|
I find my the 900 is as portable as the CGE was. It is actually lighter. Perhaps a used one would make more economic sense. I picked mine up fully loaded for close to half of what new would cost.
--------------------
AP900,LXD75
AP140EDF, TSA102, ZS80EDII
SN6-OTA, C8-OTA
Canon 20D, 350Hutech
PST, Lunt LD60T/DS (on order)
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4338
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
That sounds like a plan Luke - I'd be very happy with an AP900, it's only buying one new that doesn't make much sense at the moment.
...you selling...?
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
|
LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 6773
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
|
|
Don't temp me........
--------------------
AP900,LXD75
AP140EDF, TSA102, ZS80EDII
SN6-OTA, C8-OTA
Canon 20D, 350Hutech
PST, Lunt LD60T/DS (on order)
|
GordonCopestake
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/02/06
Posts: 2623
Loc: Newcastle-under-Lyme, UK
|
|
They do turn up now and again here in the UK Ben, but at about 6k
http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview_archive.php?view=1220
http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview_archive.php?view=2130
How much does the mach1 GTO go for?
|
msholden
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/21/05
Posts: 1181
Loc: Connecticut
|
|
I'm "breaking in" one that belongs to a friend. He's waiting for the scope he'll use on it. He got on the list in 2000 and I think it's serial #4.
I got on the list in October of 05, and hope my number comes up before his smaller scope comes in.
The Mach1 is a little closer to the GM8 than the G11 in terms of portability. My bad back won't let me lift a G11. The Mach1 is fine. My only complaint is the adatri pier/tripod adapter is a tight fit - if the mount is even slightly tipped it'll take several minutes to get it to seat properly.
It tracks beautifully, and is a joy for imaging.
While the Gemini system on my GM8 worked well, I much prefer the handbox AP provides.
It is a little noisier than the 900 or 1200 mounts.
It doesn't break apart for transport as easily as the 900 and 1200 mounts - but it's lighter in weight so that's less of an issue.
My impression is they'll probably catch up with demand within a year or so. While the waiting list for the 400 and 600 mounts was long, over the years various people have bought different mounts that they're happy with, some have probably lost interest in the hobby or died.
--------------------
Life is too short to look through bad glass.
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4338
Loc: Bosham, UK
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: