DugDog
super member
Reged: 12/19/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Temecula, Ca. USA
|
|
I recently purchased an Atlas EQ-G, and the very first thing I noticed was a concerning noise. When I would manually slew the RA, or DEC I get this rattling noise when it slows down. I have a CPC800 with a Alt AZ mount, and it sounds consistent, and hums along quietly.
If you have an Atlas EQ-G please download this MP3 file, and listen. Does your Atlas EQ-G make this noise too?
http://kimspinkrose.com/images/scope/atlaseqg.mp3
I had the rate set to "6" in the sound file, and this sound is present with or without the telescope mounted. I have a call into Orion's Tech support, and they will listen to this sound file this morning. I want to hear what other people say about this sound coming from my new Atlas EQ-G.
Thank you,
DD
--------------------
Orion StarShoot Pro DSI.
EON 120MM, and 80MM F11.4 Guide Scope.
Atlas Mount.
Celestron CPC 800 XLT
|
skyler
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/16/06
Posts: 1185
|
|
DD -
That is normal as I have had one EQG out of 4 that made a bit less ramp up noise than the others.
It happens in the very beginning of the slew of a goto and then settles out. Yours, it sounds like, you were manually stopping and going at a high rate (4+).
There is a thread somewhere here that describes the noise and someone did a great job textually mimicking the noise.
Seems somewhat dependent on temperature too but it is believed to be due to resonant frequencies and the energy generated to ramp up the motor so quickly on the stepper.
Maybe there is a better explanation out there which is welcome but the bottom line is that it is normal off the shelf.
S
|
Mert
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/31/05
Posts: 904
Loc: Spain, Pamplona
|
|
From what I hear the high pitch noise is ok,
but the grinding noise seems to come from the
the transfer gear and the worm-gear.
Maybe you could loosen the RA-assy a bit to make the mesh
a tiny little bit looser?
Is it in both axis?
Regards,
--------------------
------------------
Mert
42º49"N 1º38"W
3" Unitron refractor
6" F12 SW Maksutov,CS2-S
EQ6 + EQMOD 
Webcam with 1.25" nosepiece
|
Duncan Kitchin
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/16/04
Posts: 811
Loc: Beaverton, OR, USA
|
|
That sounds perfectly normal to me, although it would be easier to tell with some longer high speed slews.
What typically happens is that the rattling starts at some particular slew speed as the motors are ramping up, then goes away and comes back during the slowdown part. That's what I hear from mine and I gather that is in common with other people's experience also.
It's caused by some slop in the bearings in the gearbox a long way in the geartrain prior to the worm drive. I seem to recall somebody talking about fixing it by tightening up the gears (preventing them from slopping sideways along the shaft) but it doesn't affect the accuracy of the mount at all and puts additional unnecessary load on the motors.
HTH
Duncan
--------------------
Atlas EQ-G
150mm f/5 Newtonian, Baader MPCC
80mm f/11.4 Guidescope
Canon 300D Modified with Baader IR Filter
Orion StarShoot Autoguider
|
DugDog
super member
Reged: 12/19/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Temecula, Ca. USA
|
|
Yes, the noise comes from both axis. I really wanted to check with everyone that owns one of these mounts to find if this is the "norm" or if I have a defective mount.
I have not used the mount on a first light as of yet. I am still trying to become familiar with the operation, and basic understanding with mount.
So far I have TWO people that says its normal, and another person that says in might be something to be concerned about. I value everyone's input on this and appreciate any comments.
Thank you,
DD
--------------------
Orion StarShoot Pro DSI.
EON 120MM, and 80MM F11.4 Guide Scope.
Atlas Mount.
Celestron CPC 800 XLT
Edited by DugDog (05/22/08 01:59 PM)
|
Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.
Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 957
Loc: New Hampshire
|
|
I have an Atlas and the high pitched whine is normal. The gear noise however would worry me a lot! That is not normal from my experience!
CS
Steve
--------------------
Steve Forbes
6.25" f/15 Mogey/NASA refractor on GOTO GEM
6" f/15 Jaegers refractor on GOTO GEM
5.1" f/8 Burgess on CG-5 w/GOTONOVA
4" f/15 Jaegers on ORION ATLAS GOTO
2x 6" f/6 Edmund Palomar reflectors on GEMs w/ RA and DEC drives
2x 4-1/4" Edmund Palomar Jr. reflectors on GEMS w/ RA drives, (all circa 1965 - 69)
3" Edmund reflector on "EQ" mount from @1963
4" Criterion reflector with "EQ" mount from @1956.
150mm f/12 MAK w/iOptron Mini Tower
Lots of other stuff, too!
|
PGW Steve
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 531
Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
|
|
"magma displacement"   Sorry I watched hunt for red october on the weekend
--------------------
A-P 1200GTO - On the list for a Mach1GTO
14" LX200R OTA
FSQ106ED Tak .75 reducer +1.6 extender
WO Megrez 80mm 600mm triplet APO
WO ZenithStar 66 Triplet ED APO
EQ 6 PRO, HEQ-5 PRO
Astrotrac TT320, Manfrotto 475&488
DSI PRO II W/filters, Orion SSAG
Hutech 40D and Unmodded EOS 40D
16-35mm f2.8L II, 24-70mm f2.8L,70-200mm f2.8L IS 300mmf4.L, 400mmf5.6L
31T5,22T4,13E,9T6,8E,5T6,3.5T6
5’X8’ Wells Cargo trailer to haul it in!!!
|
Duncan Kitchin
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/16/04
Posts: 811
Loc: Beaverton, OR, USA
|
|
Quote:
"magma displacement" Sorry I watched hunt for red october on the weekend
--------------------
Atlas EQ-G
150mm f/5 Newtonian, Baader MPCC
80mm f/11.4 Guidescope
Canon 300D Modified with Baader IR Filter
Orion StarShoot Autoguider
|
WarrenS
sage
Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Hudson Valley New York
|
|
Hi DD, My 6 month old Atlas ocasionally makes the same "coffee grinder" noise, usually at the end of a slew. Sometimes it seems to do it more often, sometimes less. I seem to hear it less often when I've done a better job balancing the load, although I haven't specifically made notes of when it's noisy and when it isn't.
The past several times out it seemed rather quiet. I got the mount in late December when the temperature was in the teens and the mount was very quiet then so I couldn't say it's necessarily temperature related.
My opinion would be to use it often (weather permitting)over the next several weeks making sure the load's balanced and see what happens. JMHO
--------------------
Warren
AT 127EDT
C8 (circa 1983 Orange Tube)
Atlas EQ-G
300mm F2.8 LD Tamron, Canon 135mm F2.8
Canon 40D
Leica, Minolta binos
|
Charlie Hein
Postmaster
Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
|
|
I would check the mesh on the motor to worm transfer gears to make certain there's no issues there.
Charlie
--------------------
Weston CSC:
|
cvedeler
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/20/05
Posts: 1258
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
|
|
My Atlas doesn't make that noise. The high pitched yes, but the rattling grinder noise no.
--------------------
Chris Vedeler
Astro-Physics 160EDF
Astro-Physics 900GTO
Orion 80mm Guidescope
Canon EOS XT modified with Baader filter by Hap Griffin
Meade DSI Pro / Philips SPC900NC webcam
----------------------------
www.aznightsky.com
Scottsdale, AZ
|
David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 6136
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.38 X 90....
|
|
The Atlas I had never made that "rattle". Something's amiss.
David
--------------------
A few scopes and mounts.
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
Life expectancies would go WAY up if green vegetables smelled like bacon...
|
DugDog
super member
Reged: 12/19/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Temecula, Ca. USA
|
|
Here is the tally thus far:
3 say its normal.
4 say its bad.
Orion Tech Support Closed early today, so I have not heard back from that side yet.
Charlie, Checking the "Mesh on the motor to worm transfer gears" is this as simple as removing a plate? I do have some mechanical skills, but I would like to know how, what, and where to look.
Thanks,
DD
--------------------
Orion StarShoot Pro DSI.
EON 120MM, and 80MM F11.4 Guide Scope.
Atlas Mount.
Celestron CPC 800 XLT
|
DugDog
super member
Reged: 12/19/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Temecula, Ca. USA
|
|
Warren,
Here are stats from the HC unit when I recorded the sound file:
H.C. Firmware Version = Ver 03.20
Temperature = 28.1C 82.5F
Power Voltage = 11.8V
And the load balance I don't believe is the issue. I tried it with a full load, and nothing...no weights just the mount bare, and it still makes the same noise.
DD
--------------------
Orion StarShoot Pro DSI.
EON 120MM, and 80MM F11.4 Guide Scope.
Atlas Mount.
Celestron CPC 800 XLT
Edited by DugDog (05/22/08 07:51 PM)
|
Charlie Hein
Postmaster
Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
|
|
Just to be clear, my mount doesn't make the grinding noise you've recorded.
As for checking the mesh - there's a "peep-hole" covered by a chrome cover with a slot in it so that it can be removed with a regular screwdriver and so expose the mesh between the worm gear and motor transfer gears.
To adjust the mesh you have to remove the plate where your handbox connects so that you can have access to the motors, which are each held with two screws. You loosen these screws to allow the motors to be positioned to set the mesh.
Charlie
--------------------
Weston CSC:
Edited by Charlie Hein (05/22/08 08:00 PM)
|
jrbarnett
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/28/06
Posts: 2422
Loc: Petaluma, CA
|
|
I don't think it's entirely "normal" as in "most Atlas units do it" (they do not), but it also doesn't sound particularly bad.
Mine has a high pitched whine (like a dentists drill) when tracking that a couple of others I've seen in action did not have. Mine does not have the mid-slew "Brrtzz-brrtzz-brrtzz" yours seems to have, but I don't think the unusual sounds yours and mine make are problematic.
If you want to make your skin crawl, listen to your Atlas slew when your battery gets low on charge. Also, if you can run it off of AC rather than battery and see if the sound changes.
I suspect there's a fair amount of variation in Atlas sounds unit-to-unit, and wouldn't loose too much sleep over it.
Regards,
Jim
--------------------
Obsession 15" Dobson
Orion XT10 Intelliscope Dobson
Intes-Micro M715 MCT
Meade 127ED APO
D&G 5" f/10 achromat
Antares Elite 105mm f/14.4 achromat
Pentax 105-SDHF APO
Televue TV-102 APO
Takahashi FS-78 APO
Sears 60mm f/15 achromat
|
WarrenS
sage
Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Hudson Valley New York
|
|
DD,
I guess the best thing to do is to speak to someone very knowledgable about the Atlas mount at Orion, not just any customer service rep who answers the phone.
There does appear to be a range of Atlas mount sounds out there. My correlation to load and sound was very "unscientific" and it doesn't seem to apply to your mount. Mine has been kind of quiet lately, but I wouldn't be surprised if it got noisy again.
--------------------
Warren
AT 127EDT
C8 (circa 1983 Orange Tube)
Atlas EQ-G
300mm F2.8 LD Tamron, Canon 135mm F2.8
Canon 40D
Leica, Minolta binos
|
skyler
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/16/06
Posts: 1185
|
|
Well, I am really interested to hear from Tim Ray about what is normal now since this was an issue discussed before w/o a sound file.
It would be helpful to hear a goto slew from a dead stop to the end of the search. Since these are manual slews, maybe that is the difference but most of this sound is similar to what I have heard on all 4 of my EQGs. If you folks think that is abnormal or even less normal, I think I may need Tim's service.
The mount I currently have has exceptional guided tracking but still makes similar sounds to what we have heard. One of the other mounts I had in the past probably only made a small fraction of the resonant vibrating metal sound compared to the others but it did not track especially well.
So does this mean that given things are running so well, I open up my mount to fix this? I have a hard time convincing myself to do that when it is running so well.
S
Edited by skyler (05/22/08 08:55 PM)
|
skyler
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/16/06
Posts: 1185
|
|
Here is Tim's response from T.S.S after listening to the file:
"I listened to the mp3 file and I would not worry too much. I believe the chattering you are hearing is the gear between the motor and the spur gear on the worm shaft. Most EQG’s have this noise. It can be adjusted out. Not a big deal."
Whew! Now I can sleep tonight again...
But I will still have my mount visit him at the end of the summer for a tune-up.
S
|
Mert
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/31/05
Posts: 904
Loc: Spain, Pamplona
|
|
Hi DD,
After reading through the responses from all so far,
I just wanted to state that the transfer gear is
mounted between the motor and the worm.
This transfer gear is "mounted" with a lot of radial
play and wobble, between 2 rubber o-rings.
Very likely, if you take off the plate and gain access
to the 2 motor-assie's, you will see they both are held
into place by 2 philip-screws.
Make sure you remember which motor connects to which
connector on the control board.
Then just disconnect the motor you like, take out the
2 screws and you have the motor assy in your hand.
You will see the transfer gear, try and make it "wobble",
if it is too lose it will most certainly generate a
lot of noise 
If so, just loosen up the little grub-screw on the lateral
side of the mounting plate, then you can fasten or
loosen the axis ( M4 threading fixed with a grub-screw,
yagggg  )
When I get home I will post some pics so you can see!
I think the mount will be ok, just make sure the mesh
and the transfer gear are mounted/adjusted ok.
For the rest IMHO it's hard to beat this mount at
the money we've paid for it.
Let us know!
--------------------
------------------
Mert
42º49"N 1º38"W
3" Unitron refractor
6" F12 SW Maksutov,CS2-S
EQ6 + EQMOD
Webcam with 1.25" nosepiece
Edited by Mert (05/23/08 04:17 PM)
|
DugDog
super member
Reged: 12/19/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Temecula, Ca. USA
|
|
Mert,
From the discussion, It seems many people modify or upgrade their mounts by simply adding grease! I realize there are tricks for getting the most out of the mount, and I do appreciate everyones input.
As any consumer, I expect a level of quality that is at least "standard". When I compare my Celestron slewing, the Atlas sounds like a lot of loose gears jumping all around in the gear box.
Since my Atlas is brand new, I don't want to try any modifications until after I have spoken to Orion. I am still waiting for a response from Orion. I will update this thread after I get the word back.
DD
--------------------
Orion StarShoot Pro DSI.
EON 120MM, and 80MM F11.4 Guide Scope.
Atlas Mount.
Celestron CPC 800 XLT
|
Mert
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/31/05
Posts: 904
Loc: Spain, Pamplona
|
|
Hi DD,
I think you're right and I'm sure Orion will take
care of it.
They seem to have an excellent standard for service
according to a lot of threads here on CN I've seen!
As a matter of fact, my own EQ6 runs smooth, no
grinding noises whatever.
Likely it's only a matter of adjustments, but again
I'm sure Orion will take care of it!
Oh before I forget here you have a pic of the RA-assy
now with the transfer gear running of of a bearing, that's
why you see the 2 o-rings, don't need them any more 
Let us know 
--------------------
------------------
Mert
42º49"N 1º38"W
3" Unitron refractor
6" F12 SW Maksutov,CS2-S
EQ6 + EQMOD
Webcam with 1.25" nosepiece
Edited by Mert (05/23/08 04:22 PM)
|
Mert
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/31/05
Posts: 904
Loc: Spain, Pamplona
|
|
2nd pic, the gear as machined to make room for a
little sleeved bearing ( press fit into place ):
Regards,
--------------------
------------------
Mert
42º49"N 1º38"W
3" Unitron refractor
6" F12 SW Maksutov,CS2-S
EQ6 + EQMOD
Webcam with 1.25" nosepiece
Edited by Mert (05/23/08 04:35 PM)
|
DugDog
super member
Reged: 12/19/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Temecula, Ca. USA
|
|
UPDATE From Orion:
Quote:
Hello Doug –
I did receive your sound files, and we agree it doesn’t sound like it should. Therefore, we are sending another Atlas EQ-G head to you. We are also enclosing return shipping labels so it won’t cost you anything to return the apparently defective head which you received. You can use the same packaging to return your noisy head including a small note with your contact information so that proper credit can be issued for the returned head. There will be no charge to you unless your defective mount head is not returned in 30 days. Your new order number is # and it will ship Tuesday.
I apologize for the delay, but we had to close yesterday due to the big mountain fire a few miles away. The ashes were falling like snow here.
Have a very pleasant Memorial Day weekend.
Clear & Dark Skies
Orion Technical Support Group
WOW! What a pleasant response! It's TRUE about Orion's Customer Service. I am amazed! No hassle, just excellent service! Thank you Orion!  
DD
--------------------
Orion StarShoot Pro DSI.
EON 120MM, and 80MM F11.4 Guide Scope.
Atlas Mount.
Celestron CPC 800 XLT
|
WarrenS
sage
Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Hudson Valley New York
|
|
Wow DD. That is great service from Orion. I have mine out tonight and it's never sounded quieter so I'm glad they're sending you another one. Yours truly was defective then! You'll really enjoy the experience once you get a good one.
--------------------
Warren
AT 127EDT
C8 (circa 1983 Orange Tube)
Atlas EQ-G
300mm F2.8 LD Tamron, Canon 135mm F2.8
Canon 40D
Leica, Minolta binos
|
DugDog
super member
Reged: 12/19/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Temecula, Ca. USA
|
|
Mert,
Thanks for the photos. I will probably try modifying after my warranty expires. It really helps seeing other people's photos of modifications.
DD
--------------------
Orion StarShoot Pro DSI.
EON 120MM, and 80MM F11.4 Guide Scope.
Atlas Mount.
Celestron CPC 800 XLT
|
Mert
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/31/05
Posts: 904
Loc: Spain, Pamplona
|
|
You're welcome, I'm sure you'll gona enjoy
your mount a lot!
Great service from Orion!
Regards,
--------------------
------------------
Mert
42º49"N 1º38"W
3" Unitron refractor
6" F12 SW Maksutov,CS2-S
EQ6 + EQMOD
Webcam with 1.25" nosepiece
|
w orchid
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/23/07
Posts: 570
Loc: Tampa, Fl
|
|
That grinding sound is NOT normal and Orion took care of it. Their reputation is outstanding and so is the mount. The mount and goto are very straight forward so enjoy those California skies.
--------------------
Celestron C8 orange tube circa 1982
Stellarvue SV102ED
|
BCB
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 3608
Loc: Look over your shoulder
|
|
Mert,
Did that transfer gear originally have a bearing in it ? Looks like a 625. Hard to tell though, as I'm sure the pics not to scale..
So your saying to slightly tighten the mounting screw clearance, increasing the pressure on the o-rings, which takes out the "wobble" correct ???
--------------------
Mark
Making people sorry they asked since 1967
Astro-Tech 102ED
Orion 8" F5 Newt w/Moonlight CR-2 focuser
SVP mount w/Meade 497 Autostar GOTO mod
Treeline Observatory
|
Mert
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/31/05
Posts: 904
Loc: Spain, Pamplona
|
|
Hi BCB,
Basically yes, that's what I did and it made it run
much better.
On the bearing itself, the original gear has no bearing,
just a too big hole and the screw through it + 2 o-rings.
Mine had radial play and wobble, so once taken out
that ( loosen the grub screw and fasten the axis a bit )
it worked quit a lot better.
The bearing I used is SKF, W628/5-2ZR
Regards,
--------------------
------------------
Mert
42º49"N 1º38"W
3" Unitron refractor
6" F12 SW Maksutov,CS2-S
EQ6 + EQMOD
Webcam with 1.25" nosepiece
|
BCB
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 3608
Loc: Look over your shoulder
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: