Telescope Reviews: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount
#2459781 - 06/14/08 11:35 AM

First, I realize that there are a lot of sources for modding info to add things like Autostar to a SP mount.

I have one of the original Skysensors, but thankfully not the first edition with the oscillations visible at planetary magnifications - mine is very solid and smooth.

But the old Skysensor can't be autoguided, and though mine works fine, it really draws a lot of power so it isn't practical for use in the field.

I thought about upgrading to a SS2K, but they were expensive when they were still available, and I worry about them becoming obsolete now that they're not.

I haven't seen an Autostar mod that looked "neat" enough to make me want to replace the old Skysensor with (sorry to those who prefer that option).

Can the Starbook S be adapted to the SP mount? (the ads say GP only). I could do some machining, if needed, and would be willing if I can make the conversion reasonably "tidy."

If not, I could just leave it alone and use an inverter from AC power to run it (have done that before). I do have a couple of Tak mounts, but it would be nice to have something I can leave at our dark sky vacation home and just haul cameras and computers back and forth.

-Tim.

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2461467 - 06/15/08 11:53 AM

Thoughts, Dudes and Dudettes?

-Tim.

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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: New Hampshire

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2461977 - 06/15/08 05:38 PM

I think that the GOTONOVA upgrade kit from iOptron will fit. It has autoguding features built into th HC and uses USB connections.

CS

Steve

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Telescopeman54]
#2462148 - 06/15/08 07:18 PM

The Gotonova looks promising. Does anyone have experience with it?

Next thing I'm going to have to finish is the adapter I'm machining to mount the SP on a Quickset Hercules I found cheap to replace the original wood tripod.

Then, it's a dovetal saddle, so i can put different tubes on it. That mount ought to be ideal for a couple of Jaegerses I have - a 6" f/5 and a 5" f/6.

-Tim.

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John Carruthers
Skiprat

Reged: 02/02/07

Loc: Kent, UK

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2462935 - 06/16/08 08:46 AM

Have you checked out Alan's stuff at AWR? goto kits for most mounts, "....there's no mount we cannot drive" he says.
http://www.awrtech.co.uk/

Edited by John Carruthers (06/16/08 12:38 PM)

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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: New Hampshire

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: John Carruthers]
#2462992 - 06/16/08 09:36 AM

Tim:

The GOTONOVA impressed me so much that I bought one and then later became a dealer! I have it installed on an old CG-5 and it's great. I don't do AP though, just visual.

sbf

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Telescopeman54]
#2463291 - 06/16/08 12:29 PM

Steve:

I would think that one of these upgrades to a SP mount ought to be great for astrophotography. A few years back, I used Astro IIDC and a firewire camera to measure the periodic error on my functioning mounts, and though the PE on the SP is around 20 arc seconds, it's very smooth and easy to correct out. I would think that PEC software would work quite happily with it.

But I still wonder... The gotonova doesn't specifically list the SP as compatible, just the GP. Which is what the Vixen specs for the Starbook S also say. I suppose if it were compatible, I might slightly prefer the Starbook - to keep it "all Vixen" and to have that cool display and not need a computer if I don't want to haul one along. But it is about twice the price, to be sure.

Do you have pix of your installation?

-Tim.

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2463364 - 06/16/08 01:05 PM

Hi John:

I went to the AWR website, and they also list the Gotonova, only at UK prices.

-Tim.

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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: New Hampshire

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2464244 - 06/16/08 09:33 PM

Tim:

The major difference between the SP and GP are the way that the OTA mounts and the method of attaching the DEC motor. I have not taken pictures of everything. However, I have taken pictures of the CG-5 installation. That is a closer match to the GP than to the SP for the above mentioned reasons. Can it be adapted to fit? Most likely. Have I personally done this to a SP? Not yet. I'm just waiting for the chance to do so.

The Star Book is cute, but, it no matter what is done to it, or any laptop, they are too bright for me to use and keep my night vision. I don't even like the brightness of the hand controllers, but, they are certainly less bright than any type of computer.

CS

Steve

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scope dog
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 07/26/04

Loc: USA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Telescopeman54]
#2464572 - 06/17/08 12:39 AM

Not sure, I recall reading that the dec motor will hit the ra clutch or something. However I read were someone is using a SS2K PC ?.
I would call vixen optics and see if the starbook will fit. If it does then the owthers will.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: scope dog]
#2465330 - 06/17/08 12:13 PM

I've put in an email to the Vixen info dudes, and am eagerly awaiting an answer.

I thought about upgrading to a SS2K, which I understood required no modifications, but the price was always too high. Considering the old Skysensor works fine (just sucks my battery dry, so I run it off an inverter at home), and is sufficient for planetary imaging, I didn't feel compelled to spend so much to upgrade the mount.

Also, I bought a couple of Tak mounts (an NJP and an EM-10) a few years ago. They're amazingly accurate, so the poor old SP has been sitting in my shop. I'd like to revive it, though, as it was always an easy mount to image with, and maybe I could keep it at our dark sky vacation home and not have to haul too much back and forth every trip.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2467490 - 06/18/08 12:38 PM

Well, the Vixen folks say, simply, it won't fit.

I don't know whether that means the gearing isn't compatible or if it's "just" that the mounting isn't compatible (but possibly modifiable).

So, I'm really curious about whether anybody has tried to put a GotoNova on a Super Polaris mount? Because their web page says the same thing as the Starbook specs - that it's compatible with the GP mounts.

I suppose I could stick with the original Skysensor. It does work!

-Tim.

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Jerry Hyman
sage

Reged: 03/29/07

Loc: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2468763 - 06/18/08 11:28 PM

When I originally contacted OPT about using the GOTONOVA on my Super Polaris they contacted ioptron and were told it would work on a GP but not the SP.

Vixen makes two versions of the Star Book as I understand it. The one on the Spinx and new GEMS uses the color screen, but the ones on their less expensive mounts and the version used to retrofit the SP and GP series uses a monochrome screen. The buttons I believe are also different but the software is essentially the same. I have heard from several individuals that the software is not up to the standards it should be for a Vixen product.

I am not sure we will ever know whether the GotoNova will work on an SP until Steve Forbes get's a chance to convert one. If anyone can do it he can.

~jerry

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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: New Hampshire

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Jerry Hyman]
#2468942 - 06/19/08 01:08 AM

Jerry:

Thank you for the compliments. If someone would care to post a few GOOD pictures os the mount in question I should be able to answer this once and for all. The major difference of which I am aware is the way in which the DEC motor is mounted. The saddles are als different, but, that's not important.

CS

Steve

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Telescopeman54]
#2469008 - 06/19/08 02:17 AM

Steve:

I can take pix probably tomorrow evening or Friday if you need them.

I just did a search of old Astromart ads, and though there are a number of them pictured, I don't know for sure what angle you need the most.

-Tim.

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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: New Hampshire

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2470194 - 06/19/08 03:29 PM

Tim:

One from the top and the side. Also one from the front would help. Once I can see where the factory motors were to be mounted I can give you a yes or no answer.

Vixen has so many different mounts that it is sometimes a bit hard to know exactly which model is which. LOL

Thanks,

Steve

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Jerry Hyman
sage

Reged: 03/29/07

Loc: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Telescopeman54]
#2473053 - 06/20/08 08:18 PM Attachment (310 downloads)

Here are 7 photos that I took that I hope will help. First is a Super Polaris from the front straight on. Notice that on later SPs like this one the declination motor bracket is cast into the saddle (upper right).

Post Extras:

Jerry Hyman
sage

Reged: 03/29/07

Loc: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Jerry Hyman]
#2473060 - 06/20/08 08:20 PM Attachment (230 downloads)

Next is the SP from the side

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Jerry Hyman
sage

Reged: 03/29/07

Loc: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Jerry Hyman]
#2473065 - 06/20/08 08:22 PM Attachment (211 downloads)

SP from the side looking slightly up

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Jerry Hyman
sage

Reged: 03/29/07

Loc: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Jerry Hyman]
#2473066 - 06/20/08 08:23 PM Attachment (191 downloads)

SP from the rear

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Jerry Hyman
sage

Reged: 03/29/07

Loc: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Jerry Hyman]
#2473068 - 06/20/08 08:25 PM Attachment (163 downloads)

SP from the top

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Jerry Hyman
sage

Reged: 03/29/07

Loc: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Jerry Hyman]
#2473072 - 06/20/08 08:27 PM Attachment (201 downloads)

This is my Super Polaris Deluxe (which has the exact same saddle as the Super Polaris)with a MT101 motor mounted on the declination bracket shown from the rear with the gear cover off.

Post Extras:

Jerry Hyman
sage

Reged: 03/29/07

Loc: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Jerry Hyman]
#2473077 - 06/20/08 08:30 PM Attachment (162 downloads)

This is the last photo showing my Super Polaris Deluxe from the side and slightly from above.

Post Extras:

Jerry Hyman
sage

Reged: 03/29/07

Loc: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Jerry Hyman]
#2473079 - 06/20/08 08:31 PM

Steve, if you need any other photos from a different angle let me know.

~jerry

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Jerry Hyman]
#2473162 - 06/20/08 09:30 PM Attachment (179 downloads)

Okay, here are my pix. I didn't know there was a version with the motor mount bracket cast into the saddle. Mine is bolted on (but it was new in 1986)

-Tim.

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2473168 - 06/20/08 09:32 PM Attachment (149 downloads)

Saddle detail

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2473171 - 06/20/08 09:33 PM Attachment (140 downloads)

North

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2473175 - 06/20/08 09:34 PM Attachment (121 downloads)

East

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2473179 - 06/20/08 09:35 PM Attachment (118 downloads)

west

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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: New Hampshire

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Jerry Hyman]
#2473895 - 06/21/08 09:52 AM

Thanks Jerry. That does help. I believe it should work. It may require some custom spacers and/or adapter, but, it should work.

Let me know if I can be of service.

Steve

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Telescopeman54]
#2475846 - 06/22/08 11:22 AM

All:

Well, I took another big step toward getting the SP mount up and back running yesterday. At RTMC this year, I bought a used half-pillar. yesterday, I machined an adapter so I could mount it to my Quickset Hercules tripod. Works GREAT. Very rigid, and now I won't have to worry about refractor OTAs hitting the tripod legs.

For now, I put the Celestron/Vixen 80mm f/11 back on the mount, but I'm thinking about putting a 5" f/6 Jaegers on it with a no-brand old Japanese 2.4" refractor with good optics piggyback as a guide scope. The Jaegers was built with a non-removable military surplus Erfle eyepiece mounted to it, so I'll need to cut the tube shorter and arrange a backplate for either a commercial focuser or make one myself.

Of course, I should make or buy a losmandy-style dovetail saddle for the mount. if I do that, I can also put the 6" f/5 Jaegers on the SP, though it's heavy enough to push the limits of the SP, I think.

Then, hopefully I'll easily be able to add the GotoNova or some other roboscope option in place of the old Skysensor.

Nice thing about this is that the Hercules tripod is on a dolly I made several years ago, so once I set a scope up on it, I won't have to take it apart after a run, so setup will be very fast.

-Tim.

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2475850 - 06/22/08 11:24 AM

But before anybody comments about the point I made that the 6" f/5 would be too heavy for the mount, I'm mainly thinking about astrophotography. Visually, I don't think it'd be a problem at all.

Heck, I used to have my 6" f/10 Jaegers on that poor mount! I used it for planetary imaging. Once I got things focused and stopped touching the scope, it worked very well - so long as there was no wind...

-Tim.

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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: New Hampshire

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#2475863 - 06/22/08 11:32 AM

Tim53:

I will be very interested in knowing how the GOTONOVA fits and works on your mount. I believe it should work. You may need to fabricate some spacers, though. If I can be of help, please, let me know.

Good luck and clear skies.

Steve

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Telescopeman54]
#3069224 - 04/26/09 08:55 PM

I've decided to bump this thread up, because:

number A: I still haven't made the upgrade

letter 2: I found ANOTHER Super Polaris mount for a great price off Craigslist a month ago that had been part of a SP-C8 package. Except for some oxidation of some of the chrome parts (mount was stored in a garage), this mount is MINT. The owner quickly changed over to a goto mount and appears to have only used the SP only a few times. There are no scratches or nicks in the paint whatsoever.

I'm now trying to decide whether to:

1: move the old Skysensor from my other SP to this one and sell the other one at RTMC.

2: Sell both mounts at RTMC and free up some room in my workshop.

3: Keep the mint SP, upgrade it to goto, and sell off the other one with the old Skysensor.

Since I started this thread, I added goto in the form of a sidereal technology servo kit to a pre-goto Tak EM-500 for my 12.5" Cassegrain. For another 300 bucks or so, I could buy the servo motors to put on the SP and use the SiTech controller to run it. ...but the pittman servo motors seem a bit overkill for such a small mount.

So, I'll keep searching this site for SP upgrades people have done, but just in case you've done an SP since this thread last summer, by all means let me know! I'd like to see pics!

-Tim.

Post Extras:

pollux
artiste

Reged: 04/01/04

Loc: Burnaby Canada

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Telescopeman54]
#3069418 - 04/26/09 10:08 PM

Quote:

Tim:

The GOTONOVA impressed me so much that I bought one and then later became a dealer! I have it installed on an old CG-5 and it's great. I don't do AP though, just visual.

sbf

Hi Steve. How's the noise of the motors?

I maybe adding a goto kit for my GPD2 during summer (if I have a job) and as much as I would want the StarBook S upgrade kit I find the motor noise of the SBS is way too loud for my taste (no idea why Vixen does something stupid on this) and I am looking for alternative

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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: New Hampshire

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: pollux]
#3069725 - 04/27/09 01:39 AM

I just installed a GOTONOVA kit on an old SP. I needed to make some custom spacers and modify the covers, but, it worked like a charm. It performed very well and the client is quite happy with it.

CS

Steve

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John Carruthers
Skiprat

Reged: 02/02/07

Loc: Kent, UK

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3069762 - 04/27/09 03:02 AM

I would keep the old SP, it'll have lapped itself in by now and possibly run smoother. One of our members has fitted SS2K to his and another has done the Meade lxd55 mod, both seem to run ok.

Post Extras:

Charlie Hein
Postmaster

Reged: 11/02/03

Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: John Carruthers]
#3070397 - 04/27/09 12:17 PM

Guys, you sound like you're getting ready to make a deal here... please take any business discussions you have to pm, THANKS!

Also, when you finish your mods please post to this thread to bring it "full circle"

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Charlie Hein]
#3070668 - 04/27/09 02:22 PM

Charlie:

Okay, I'll do that. But I haven't really made the final decision as to which way to go yet.

I found from the Sitech yahoo group that I could probably find a pair of smaller servo motors for under a hundred bucks and use the controller I already have. But it might be nice to have a tidy complete goto/SP package if I should decide to sell the mount later on.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: John Carruthers]
#3072555 - 04/28/09 11:10 AM

Quote:

I would keep the old SP, it'll have lapped itself in by now and possibly run smoother. One of our members has fitted SS2K to his and another has done the Meade lxd55 mod, both seem to run ok.

I've thought about doing this, but the "new" one is so clean and purdy it'll be hard not to want to switch to it.

I decided to order the Gotonova kit so that when/if I decide to part with the mount the new owner will have a complete goto system.

What I think I'll do is mount it to the "new" SP mount and then test the PE with one of my Pt Grey Research cameras and Astro IIDC. My previous SP mount had a very smooth, easily corrected PE of about 20 arc seconds. It was easy to take 1 or 2 minute subs and have a good percentage of useable frames for stacking when I last shot DSOs through a Starlight Xpress HX516 and a 4.25" f/5 Newt several years ago. The PE is noticeably smoother than that on my Nexstar 9.25 GPS, in fact, though the total PE is about the same.

I've heard of folks with SP mounts with even better PE than mine, though. So it'll be interesting to see what this one's PE turns out to be.

My previous SP was a purchase after Halley in 1986. I got it at RTMC with the 80mm refractor OTA AND the altaz mount. I've mounted various scopes on it, all the way up to a 6" f/10 Jaegers for planetary imaging. Boy, was that underkill! I still have the 80mm, plus some additional refractor parts that I may mount on this rig, including that fine 4.25" f/5 Newt.

I'll be sure and post pics of the conversion, in case other SP owners are considering it.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3135625 - 05/30/09 10:28 AM

The gotonova kit arrove yesterday. When I can scare up some time, I'll start working on making the conversion.

The hand paddle is smaller than I got the impression it would be from photos. A good thing, in my view.

At RTMC, I picked up a Televue NP101is used. It fits perfectly on the Super Polaris' stock saddle, though I had to put a couple of washers between the saddle and rings to get a tight seat.

But it looks like it belongs there. And that Super Polaris looks so new, it looks like a plausible factory package, even though the mount is 20 years older than the OTA!

-Tim.

Post Extras:

rjsc2000
sage

Reged: 09/21/06

Loc: Portugal

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3136161 - 05/30/09 04:46 PM

Don't forget the pics

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: rjsc2000]
#3136389 - 05/30/09 07:35 PM

I promise!

-Tim.

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3138726 - 05/31/09 11:01 PM

Okay, I took pics, but you'll have to wait until I get upstairs where I can use my Mac to resize the frames for posting.

The conversion was very simple to do. Absolutely no modifications to the Super Polaris mount were needed whatsoever. Only the covers on the Gotonovoa motors needed modification. Basically, a little clearance for the RA circle was needed on the RA cover, and the Dec cover needed material cut away to go around the SP's dec motor bracket (which I had to borrow from my other mount, as these mounts don't have the cast on mounting bracket on the saddle like some later ones, but one was provided with my original Skysensor kit. I'll have to find another one if I'm going to put the Skysensor back on my other mount.

Steve, I think you said that some clearancing for the RA or Dec gear needed to be made on the mount with a Dremel? I found that if I turned the gears around, such that the setscrew was on the inside rather than the outside (the way it's mounted on the motors), then no clearancing was necessary.

I still need to set the gear mesh and grease the gears, though, as I got an error message when I turned the system on (but I wonder if that might be due to my battery being low? I haven't charged it in months).

The Maroon Layer saw me setting up, so it socked in almost immediately. I'll try making adjustments tomorrow night after work.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3138807 - 05/31/09 11:41 PM Attachment (209 downloads)

Okay, here it is, with my "new" TV NP101is ("is (not was)") mounted on it:

-Tim.

Edited by tim53 (06/01/09 01:09 PM)

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3138811 - 05/31/09 11:42 PM Attachment (173 downloads)

Pic too

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3138815 - 05/31/09 11:43 PM Attachment (157 downloads)

This is also a pic

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tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3146505 - 06/04/09 11:08 PM

I've spoken too soon, it seems.

The system is nice to look at, but it doesn't work. I get an error message when I start it up saying that the RA motor is showing an over current, and I should check the balance.

RA balance is fine, so I disconnected the motor from the spur gear on the worm, and I still get the warning message.

Anyone else have this problem?

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3164030 - 06/15/09 02:22 PM Attachment (105 downloads)

Update:

Sent the unit back, but Steve couldn't find anything wrong with it. Got it back from Steve last week, and tried it again, off the mount to see if my problem repeated. It did, but when I turned it off but left it plugged in (red LED lit), and tried again an hour later, it worked fine!

So, I took it down to my basement shop where the problem first showed up, and it worked there, too.

So, I put it all back together, this time on a Quickset Hercules tripod I'd bought many years ago (for a mere $40!) and mounted on a dolly I'd made that just fits through my basement doorway (allowing me to leave a scope on the mount and wheel it around).

Tried it outside last night, because it was clear for the first time in a long time. Although I'm still getting myself familiar with the iOptron manual (which seems to be kinda sparse on some things), the unit worked rather well.

And the NP101is was quite comfortable on the Super Polaris with that tripod. Very sturdy.

It looks like it's going to be cloudy again for a while, otherwise I'd try polar aligning well and using Astro IIDC to measure the PE of the mount.

All told, I think I've got a good light-duty AP mount here for a total investment of:

$75 - mint used Super Polaris mount (craigslist)
$40 - used Quickset Hercules tripod (Pasadena Swap Meet several years ago)
$30 - used Vixen pier extension (RTMC a couple years ago)
$430 - new iOptron Gotonova goto upgrade kit (not supposed to be for Super Polaris, but fits with only modifications to the plastic motor covers, not the mount).

$575 - Total.

Not bad for a Vixen smooth PE (I haven't measured it, but expect it will be 20 arc seconds or better, and very smooth) with modern goto.

-Tim

Post Extras:

pollux
artiste

Reged: 04/01/04

Loc: Burnaby Canada

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3164943 - 06/15/09 11:14 PM

That's cheap (the total cost I mean)

I am thinking about adding GOTO to my GPD2 and I am looking forward for more report on that GOTONOVA.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: pollux]
#3165475 - 06/16/09 09:58 AM

If it clears up again around here, I'll put it through it's paces!

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3168384 - 06/17/09 06:35 PM Attachment (101 downloads)

Well, this is disturbing. I think I did this right, but I'm going to have to rig up the old SP and make sure I measured the PE the same way I did the "newer" one. And that I'm doing this right.

I used Astro IIDC to measure the drift, in pixels, in RA and DEC. Interestingly, the dec drift was only 18 pixels over 20 minutes, showing that I was reasonably polar aligned (but not awesomely so). The RA drift over two full rotations of the worm was worse - about 34 pixels - suggesting that the drive rate was off sidereal by that amount (though I'm not certain it was running fast or slow, another thing to check!)

Here're my stats:
Scope focal length - 545mm (101mm f/5.4)
Point Grey Research "Flea2" pixels - 4.65 microns
arc seconds/pixel - 1.76

I plotted the data using Kaleidagraph and "normalized" the RA drift so that it ended at the same value it started with. Attached are the results. If I did this right, this mount has a pretty smooth PE of plus or minus ~20 arcseconds, or a total PE of ~40 arcseconds. This seems pretty bad for a Vixen mount, to me.

But I'll have to go back and use the same scope on the old Super Polaris and make sure I measure the PE the same way and with the same camera. Because I remember it being around 20-22 arcseconds, and I THINK that was total PE I recorded, but it might not have been (it was about 3 or 4 years ago I measured it).

If the old one's really twice as good as the "new" one, I think I'll keep the old one! But could there be that much variation in Vixen mounts?

I also seem to remember a friend of mine telling me he had a SP mount with only 5 arcseconds of PE, which would be pretty awesome even if he meant plus or minus (comparable to my Tak EM-10, in fact).

Not sure what to believe! Other vixen owners (any of their mounts) ever measure the PE on their drives? I'd be interested in hearing what you found.

-Tim.

Edited by tim53 (06/17/09 06:36 PM)

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

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Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3168419 - 06/17/09 06:52 PM

I may be wrong about the smoothness. Since my pixels were pretty large and exposures were 1" duration (on Regulus), the little wiggles in the curve must be due to the spur gears (the bigger wiggles seem periodic, and appear to have matches in the second rotation of the worm).

Hm...

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3171378 - 06/19/09 11:36 AM

I thought I was going to measure the PE on the other SP mount last night, but I got lazy and set up the 6" f/10 Newt on the EM-10 instead.

While imaging Saturn with it, I noticed that the planet drifted around far less than it did when imaging with the same camera and about the same image scale as I did the other night. It drifted over time in Dec (too lazy to do a rocket surgery level polar alignment), but in RA it didn't drift even a saturn disk-width, and the other night with the Super Polaris it clearly drifted more than a Saturn disk-width.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

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Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3209699 - 07/10/09 10:20 AM

Just an update for others contemplating a similar upgrade.

I've been using this rig several evenings since I set it up to test the drives, and I would have to say that I really like the system.

For quick setup and alignment, it can't be beat! I can usually get polar aligned with the polar scope well enough to not need to make any dec corrections in long periods of high magnification planetary viewing with the TV NP101is.

Go to's are very good as well. You may have noticed I *still* haven't put a finder on the TV, but so far I haven't really needed it (I will add one, though).

One thing I like about the hand controller is that the light turns itself off after it's been unused for a period of time (dont' know how long that is). All you have to do is hit the enter button to bring it back on, though.

It has a multi-line LCD display, so there's none of that frustration of waiting for text to scroll across the screen to see what you're pointing at or what button the software wants you to hit next.

In short, I highly recommend the Gotonova upgrade to breathe new life into these old, high-quality mounts.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3276674 - 08/16/09 09:47 PM Attachment (167 downloads)

I've been asked about posting pics showing details of the installation, so here they are...

Also, if you saw my posts on about the Mt Pinos trip this weekend, you'll see I had more problems with the gotonova not coming on, but found from Chris Ericson on the ioptron yahoo group that it was due to the power supplies I was using and that I had two scopes and my laptop drawing battery power from my van. When I got home and plugged the unit back into my usual wall outlet, it worked fine.

This first pic is looking down on the dec motor mounting bracket, and shows how I put a washer under the ioptron mounting bolt so that it would bear against the bracket, which is an open frame thingy that came with my original Skysensor for the other Super Polaris mount. In addition to this bolt, there are the four set screws on either side of the bracket that bear against the dovetail on the motor body. You can see in the photo that there's a gap at the bottom of the picture that shows that two of the set screws don't touch the motor housing because the dovetail is shorter than the Vixen motor dovetails. But the other two setscrews at the top and the bolt hold it nice and tight.

The motor covers are on in these pics. I could take them off if jpeople want to see the installation without them, but it's pretty straightforward. And this way, you can see where I cut away the motor cover to clear the Vixen parts. The most cutting away was right here, to make room for the Vixen bracket that supports the motor dovetail.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3276688 - 08/16/09 09:54 PM Attachment (143 downloads)

This next pic is just of the dec spur gears, visible through the opening in the motor cover. I show this because I was told that I'd need to use a dremel tool to provide clearance for the spur gears on both the RA and DEC. The kit comes with the spur gears on the motor shafts with the boss for the setscrew on the outside of the shaft. If you were to mate up the gear that goes onto the mount's dec worm shaft with the setscrew on the inside, you probably would need to grind some clearance in the mount.

For both axes, I turned the spur gears around on their shafts, so I needed no modifications to the mount at all.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3276706 - 08/16/09 10:03 PM Attachment (148 downloads)

The RA mounting gave me a little more concern. The iOptron kit comes with a long bolt that runs through the RA casting and threads into the RA motor housing in installations on mounts like the CG5 clones and GP mounts that iOptron says the kit is designed for. But the Super Polaris doesn't have a hole through the RA axis in the appropriate location.

Add to that the fact that only two of the four set screws in the super polaris mount bear against the dovetail on the iOptron motor housing, I thought it would get jarred loose pretty easily.

But in practice, I haven't found this to be a problem at all. Recently, when I took the mount to Utah with me, I did find the RA spur gear backlash was pretty loose, so I quickly adjusted it and retightened one of the setscrews with an allen wrench (the screws are accessible with the motor covers on, so this is a quick adjustment).

This pic just shows the motor and cover closeup, with the spur gears visible in the gap in the housing on the side.

Here is where most of the motor cover cutaway needed to be done - to clear the RA setting circle. I used a coping saw for the big cuts on the DEC cover and a half round file for the RA cover, and general cleaning up of the cutaway surfaces when I was done.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3276712 - 08/16/09 10:07 PM Attachment (125 downloads)

This last pic is probably too dark to show what I'm trying to show, which is that the setscrews are accessible without taking the motor cover off, if you find yourself needing to adjust the backlash in the spur gears or just tighten the RA motor assembly at some point.

The setscrews are in that shadow right above the lattitude scale... trust me!

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3276716 - 08/16/09 10:10 PM

One additional remark:

You may have noticed that the clutch handle for the RA is pretty close to the motor cover in the locked position. I actually had to reposition at least the RA clutch lever on its spline to clear the motor cover and still tighten properly. But it was easy to do - just remove that philips screw, rotate the handle on the spline and put the screw back.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

Tommy
sage

Reged: 04/11/05

Loc: Malaysia

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3276734 - 08/16/09 10:26 PM

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the great closeup images. The modifications are quite simple though. But One more question I must ask, can the mount altitude adjust down to 0 deg? This is because Malaysia located at 3 deg in altitude.

Regards,

Tommy

Post Extras:

Tommy
sage

Reged: 04/11/05

Loc: Malaysia

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Tommy]
#3276744 - 08/16/09 10:32 PM

Also the power supply question. Normally I am using a PSU that provide 12V 10A power. Is this voltage good for drive the GOTO whole night?

Regards,

Tommy

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Tommy]
#3276987 - 08/17/09 01:05 AM

Tommy:

good question! I *think* so, but I've never done it. Tomorrow I'll check it out and get back to you.

-Tim

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3278710 - 08/17/09 10:13 PM Attachment (107 downloads)

I was just checking to see if the RA motor interfered at all with the latitude adjustment of the super polaris. It does.

I thought for sure it would swing to 0 degrees latitude, because there is so much clearance in the SP's castings. But it stopped at 18 degrees. At first I couldn't figure out why, but then I saw that the RA motor housing is hitting the mount and preventing it from going any farther.

See attached pic.

All may not be quite lost, actually. Perhaps a toothed belt and pulleys could be used in place of the spur gears so that someone equatorward of 18 degrees could rig up a mount for the motor that would step it a little out from the mount so it could swing down? But then there's that clutch lock handle... hm...

Post Extras:

Tommy
sage

Reged: 04/11/05

Loc: Malaysia

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3278768 - 08/17/09 10:41 PM

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the photos. Now i am a bit worried.

But if I am not mistaken, if you manage to adjust the polar axis altitude adjustment plate. Then you can manage to go down to 0 deg.

You can try that and let me know hows the outcome.

Regards,

Tommy

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Tommy]
#3278810 - 08/17/09 11:02 PM

The problem is that the motor housing is hitting the mount base right in front of the latitude scale in the picture. The mount base appears symmetric, in that it doesn't offset the RA casting forward to offer more clearance than if it were on the other side.

When I worked on the early Meade Newtonians, we would occasionally drill an additional hole in the base of the RA casting where it pivots so that people at low latitudes could adjust the mount and not have the counterweights hit the pier. But I don't know if that could be done with the super polaris.

Probably a better workaround would be to fashion a tripod cap that tilts the mount base forward by 20 degrees to allow you to get to 0 with clearance.

another option might be to machine away the metal from the mount base or the motor housing where the two come together. Of course, modifying the motor housing would probably void the warranty.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

Tommy
sage

Reged: 04/11/05

Loc: Malaysia

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3278833 - 08/17/09 11:16 PM

Hi Tim,

Thanks again. From the photo that you showed us, do you think we can try to unmount the motor and try to tilt the mount to 0 deg first then mount the motor unit back and see? Then maybe by this way, the motor aluminum housing will not stuck at that point.

Sorry for the trouble.

Regards,

Tommy

Edited by Tommy (08/18/09 12:25 AM)

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Tommy]
#3280749 - 08/18/09 09:59 PM Attachment (107 downloads)

Tommy:

No problem! As I said in my PM to you, I figured out that the Super Polaris *can* get to 0 degrees latitude. I think that the gotonova can also still be fit to the mount at that latitude, but it will require cutting away more of the motor cover to get the clearance at 0 degrees, and since I don't need to do that for my application, I'll leave that part to you.

First, in my last photo above, I thought that it was the motor housing that was coming into contact with the mount base, but it isn't. That part moves parallel to the curved face of the mount base as it rotates in latitude - it doesn't get any closer or farther away with latitude.

What I *should* have done is to look at the other side, where I would have seen this:

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3280758 - 08/18/09 10:02 PM Attachment (105 downloads)

...the latitude adjustment screw pushes against a boss on the back of this "cam" that has the black locking screw on it and the allen socket head screw in the middle. It was all the way against the stop on the left at 18 degrees.

But wait! The cam's position is adjustable! If you take out the allen screw, the cam comes off, and you can see splines on its back and on the mount where it goes:

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3280760 - 08/18/09 10:03 PM Attachment (111 downloads)

and...

Post Extras:

Tommy
sage

Reged: 04/11/05

Loc: Malaysia

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3280762 - 08/18/09 10:04 PM

Wohooooo.......Now we solved the mystery. Steve must be the one that happy with this result.

Thanks bro for the effort.

Regards,

Tommy

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3280770 - 08/18/09 10:07 PM Attachment (110 downloads)

So, next I put the cam back, but after I rotated the mount down to closer to 0 degrees latitude, and it works!

So, here's a pic of the motor and cover removed from the mount. The area you'd have to remove to clear the mount base is the "flange" that juts to the right beyond the motor housing at the bottom of the unit:

Post Extras:

Tommy
sage

Reged: 04/11/05

Loc: Malaysia

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Tommy]
#3280772 - 08/18/09 10:08 PM

Bro, can show us after the motor unit install in?

Tommy

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3280777 - 08/18/09 10:11 PM

So there you have it!

Here we have a goto upgrade that's modern, reasonably-priced, and that can be fitted to a high-quality japanese mount that was produced in large numbers during the 80's and early 90's.

All it needs is a way to autoguide through the USB port on the hand controller (hint, Steve!, bug your iOptron contacts to make this happen!

-Tim.

Post Extras:

Tommy
sage

Reged: 04/11/05

Loc: Malaysia

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3280780 - 08/18/09 10:12 PM

Quote:

So, next I put the cam back, but after I rotated the mount down to closer to 0 degrees latitude, and it works!

So, here's a pic of the motor and cover removed from the mount. The area you'd have to remove to clear the mount base is the "flange" that juts to the right beyond the motor housing at the bottom of the unit:

Bro,

Can you circle it out which part should we clear out?

Regards,

Tommy

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Tommy]
#3280806 - 08/18/09 10:23 PM

Quote:

Bro, can show us after the motor unit install in?

Tommy

I could do that if I take the motor cover off first. It won't fit at 0 degrees with the cover on, unless more plastic is cut away first.

I just thought of something I might do one of these days... If you look at the pic above closely, you can see where the set screw on the mount bears against the motor housing on the dovetail boss on the housing to the upper left of the threaded bolt hole on the right.

If I put a dowel or something like that, that fits into the threaded hole, and put something on it like grease to make a mark on the inside of the polar casting where it comes into contact with it, I could use that mark to drill a hole through the casting to allow using the long through-bolt that came with the gotonova kit to secure the RA motor just like with the "approved" mounts.

I'd have to make sure that the hole doesn't intersect any critical parts inside the mount first, though.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3280835 - 08/18/09 10:31 PM Attachment (108 downloads)

Okay, here's the above pic with the area I think needs to be cut off the motor cover to get it to fit against the mount at the equator. You might have to cut a little more right where the mount base is. I'll have to leave that to those of you who are lucky enough to live near the equator where the planets are always high in the sky!!

-Tim.

Oops wrong pic posted. Thsi should be the right one!

Edited by tim53 (08/18/09 10:36 PM)

Post Extras:

Tommy
sage

Reged: 04/11/05

Loc: Malaysia

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3282585 - 08/19/09 07:34 PM

Already order a set of GotoNova from Steve. Now waiting for the parcel to come. Thanks Tim for the support and guidance.

Regards,

Tommy

Post Extras:

rjsc2000
sage

Reged: 09/21/06

Loc: Portugal

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Tommy]
#3290562 - 08/24/09 04:43 AM

Hi all
Can the GotoNova be used to autoguide? using Metaguide or any other means?

Thank you

Ricardo

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: rjsc2000]
#3290941 - 08/24/09 10:48 AM

Ricardo:

I've been told that it can, but I won't have a chance to explore this myself for a while yet.

There's a USB connection on the bottom of the hand controller that is essentially a serial-to-USB converter in the gotonova electronics. I just downloaded a plugin from iOptron that allows Voyager 4.5 to control the mount through this port, but I haven't tried connecting it yet.

You might also ask members of the iOptron yahoo group or maybe the Stark Labs Astronomy Software yahoo group (for PHD guiding, for example).

I'll be interested to hear what you find out!

-Tim.

Post Extras:

rjsc2000
sage

Reged: 09/21/06

Loc: Portugal

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3292547 - 08/25/09 03:56 AM

Hi
Stephen Forbes says that is was never implemented.
So, i guess it's a dead end.....

Ricardo

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: rjsc2000]
#3293355 - 08/25/09 02:03 PM

Steve:

What does "never implemented" mean? Because if the mount can be controlled via a laptop through the USB port (carinasoft's website says that it can, via Voyager 4.5), it ought to be possible, provided someone writes the software to do it.

I should note that I downloaded the iOptron plugin for Voyager 4.5, but I haven't had a chance to try it on the mount yet, and probably won't for at least another 2 weeks.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: New Hampshire

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#3293372 - 08/25/09 02:14 PM

The next generation controller will have autoguiding. Look for it around the beginning of next year. It will be available as a service item. I have no idea of the price, though.

Steve

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Telescopeman54]
#3293662 - 08/25/09 04:56 PM

Steve:

Okay, thanks for the info. I asked on the Astro IIDC yahoo group, and the answer was no for USB there as well.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

rjsc2000
sage

Reged: 09/21/06

Loc: Portugal

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Telescopeman54]
#3295989 - 08/26/09 04:39 PM

The good thing is that you only have to replace the controller and not the whole unit.

It's cheaper that way...

BTW, how is the kit behaving??

Ricardo

Post Extras:

Tommy
sage

Reged: 04/11/05

Loc: Malaysia

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: rjsc2000]
#3463332 - 11/23/09 04:34 AM

Hi all,

At last I got my GOTOnova kit from Steve. I waited for more than 2 months. Steve is a very responsible person. He really tested my kit until it reach the ISO standard before he ship it out.

Sounds crazy, but it is a good practice.

So, the first day I received it I start to modify the RA casing. It is really a big project for people who stay at 0-5 deg country. The RA motor casing definitely will hit the the mount. So, I have to cut off a lot just to make sure the casing will not touch the mount again. Quite a big project for me. I spent the whole afternoon just to modify the RA problem. Just a few minutes for DEC mounting problem.

So, after everything done, I start to test the motor and GOTO without scope and counterweight on. It turns and slew! After that, reset the controller and re-key in all the data. But first time something confusing me a lot is the UT time setting.

Dunno behind or ahead of UT!!!!! hahahaha... I look at my computer screen with planetarium software on just to confirm the position of pointing correct or not. It works.

Last night I tried to connect GN using Ascom for computer control. I tested few planetarium software. Result as below:

1. Thesky 6 pro - Failed on GOTOnova Ascom. Only can use AP GTO Ascom driver.
2. SkyMap11 - Failed on GOTOnova driver as well. Only can use AP GTO ascom driver.
3. CDC sky chart - Successful with Gotonova ascom.
4. C2A - succesfull with Gotonova ascom as well.
5. Stellarium with stellariumscope - Not slewing at all. Maybe is user problem.

One more thing, I also can use AlignMaster successfully. It slew!! Will test out the drift alignment with this software once skies clear up!

So, photos are below. Will do more and more testing.

1. Park position for Malaysia (3deg)
Image 1

2. Modification for the DEC casing.
Image 2

3. RA casing modification.
Image 3

4. Have to cut out the bottom part,so that the adjustment knob can go through.
Image 4

5. RA casing when at high latitude.
Image 5

6. From bottom view. Modified until can see the PCB circuit board and electronic parts.
Image 6

Clear sky!

Regards,

Tommy

Moderator edit: images modified to replace TOS violation (oversized) inline image pictures with links to pictures.

Edited by Bowmoreman (07/25/11 05:22 PM)

Post Extras:

rjsc2000
sage

Reged: 09/21/06

Loc: Portugal

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Tommy]
#3463552 - 11/23/09 09:16 AM

Nice pictures. Looking good for some tests

ricardo

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: rjsc2000]
#3463909 - 11/23/09 01:26 PM

Hi Tommy, glad you finally got your kit and that you were able to install it for your latitude. About the UT offset, I needed to make sure that I gave the controller menu both the UT and the offset for Pacific time. It would slew into the pier or tell me objects above the horizon were "horizong now" if I didn't do both.

ricardo:

I've only used my gotonova/super polaris for visual, or imaging planets through the TV 101is. I tried unguided astrophotography with it last summer, but the PE on my mount is too large for that to be much fun. I was also having unrelated software problems running the Meade DSI Pro III camera, so I gave up imaging and enjoyed the view through the TV in a good dark sky.

I haven't had any problems with the gotonova so long as I use the HC to find and track objects. I'd like to use the setup for astrophotography though, so I'll either wait for the upgrade to a HC with a guiding port, or see how Tommy does with his experiments!

Alternatively, if I image only with my ST2000XM with the AO-7, I wouldn't need to guide, as the PE is small enough that the AO would be able to correct for it.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

Nick Rose
super member

Reged: 11/01/10

Loc: San Mateo, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#4503726 - 04/07/11 08:37 PM Attachment (64 downloads)

I guess I'll wake up this thread with a post. About a month ago a fellow astronomer from the UK sold me his GOTO NOVA kit to me in the States. I knew from post here and pictures that the motor mounts would not allow all the set screws on the Super Polaris to connect with the motor mounts. So my dads work friend which is a mechanic at there work modified the motor mounts by adding some more metal. Finally its all done and now I just have to mount the motors to the Super Polaris.

I have a question with the R.A. motor. Both motors work fine, I've hooked everything up and everything turns on and runs. My question is when I slew and then stop the motor makes a buzzing sound. I assume this is probably normal, is it?

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Nick Rose]
#4710231 - 07/24/11 11:55 AM

Hi Nick:

Sorry I didn't see this post until today!

It's probably normal. Remember that when you stop slewing, the RA motor will still be running (tracking), so it's probably a factor of the motor slowing down at the end of the slew to a tracking rate, whereas the Dec slows down to a stop.

I really like the solution to the problem of getting the setscrews to have something to bear against! I may add that to my RA motor as well, though I haven't had a problem with just the two set screws so far. A potential buyer might want the added security (I've got my mount with the TV refractor on it, for sale in S&S).

-Tim.

Post Extras:

orlyandico
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#4711247 - 07/25/11 12:19 AM

the buzzing is normal, happens on my GP + MT1 (but the buzzing is only on the RA axis).

Post Extras:

netwolf
super member

Reged: 09/03/05

Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: orlyandico]
#4711750 - 07/25/11 11:40 AM

Tim, a very interesting and enlighting thread, if the gotonova motors are Servo's then another option is to connect these servos to your Sitech controller. But for a portable setup the Gotonova handset is much better no need for Laptop. I use a Sitech on my G-11 but have been looking for a cheap portable setup for my C8. The C8 i have is from the G8 which originally would have been mounted on one of thse SP type mounts.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: netwolf]
#4713493 - 07/26/11 09:54 AM

Hi netwolf:

I can't remember whether the motors are servos or steppers. Hm...

Both systems work very well, though I've yet to put the Sitech through it's paces in a dark sky. I mostly use the Tak EM-500 that I mounted it on for planetary, and so I don't need goto, just accurate polar alignment and good tracking and slow motion adjustment. Recently, Dave Groski repaired the original Tak controller, so I'm going to put that back in that mount, and use the Sitech for another mount - probably the big Springfield mount I've had for about a year and a half now!

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#4713506 - 07/26/11 10:02 AM

I can't remember where I posted this, but one thing I REALLY like about the Gotonova is that... ...well, two things... ...1), there's a very nice polar finder display on the HC that shows the orientation of polaris with respect to the pole. With my Tak mounts, which have very accurate polaris reticles, I still have to look up the position in a star chart, or calculate the time and orientation for the reticle. 2), When I've just done a 2 or 3-star alignment on the sky, I get a message on the display showing how many minutes of arc I am from the pole in azimuth and elevation, and which direction. Once, when I did a rather crude alignment, I used this display to adjust the az/el screws on the mount to fine tune the adjustment in the directions indicated and re-did the 2 star alignment. This time, the display said I was within a handful of minutes of arc of the pole! And tracking while observing Saturn over the next hour confirmed this!

Note to self: Careful, you're talking yourself into keeping the SP mount with the Gotonova on it!

-Tim.

Post Extras:

tim53
Postmaster

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Telescopeman54]
#4713515 - 07/26/11 10:12 AM

Quote:

The next generation controller will have autoguiding. Look for it around the beginning of next year. It will be available as a service item. I have no idea of the price, though.

Steve

I don't know if later generations of the Hand controller have autoguide ports, but I bought one of the autoguider boxes that plugs into the mount and into the ST4 port on a camera (or a GPUSB, which I already have). It goes with the mount if I do sell it.

I take my scopes out to Utah for my dark sky time (I live 7 miles from downtown LA, so I usually only image planets at home). I was just there for a week of imaging around the 4th of July. Well, after the 500 mile drive (thankfully, my son drove about half the way), I still had a little energy left, so I stayed up until about 1am that night, setting up the scope and experimenting with calibrating the autoguider in the SBIG ST2000XM. I had some success, but my target was getting too low for imaging, so I moved to another target to start over. I got tired and decided to pack it in before I was able to calibrate the autoguider. But I figured I still had about 6 nights to go, so it wasn't a big deal.

It was cloudy or raining every night from that night on!

So, I still need to do this. I'd take the scope with me to CSPAMP IV at Mt Pinos this weekend, but the TV is too new to be a classic, and I'll likely be tight on space.

-Tim.

Post Extras:

prozach
journeyman

Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Des Moines, Washington

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: tim53]
#4747825 - 08/14/11 03:22 PM

This is a great thread!

Resurrecting to add my experience.

I have a ca 1995 SPC-8 that I liberated from my dad.

I recently did the gotonova conversion on it and wrote up a pretty lengthy description on my blog.

My initial experience with the mount after the conversion yielded somewhat disappointing results.

I struggled with understanding the polar alignment offsets, the manual is unclear about what the polar error actually means. Higher, does that mean I am set higher, or the point is higher? Same for east/west does east mean I am east or that I need to move east? I also did not actually use my polar scope the first night but instead got it close and figured I would use the gotonova and some tweaking to get it right. This proved to be poor decision.

My goto accuracy suffered and my backlash was HORRIBLE.
hitting the RA slew would cause stars to drift for a second or two and the delay between hitting the button on the dec slew was frustrating.

Despite that, I was pleased with the results. It was still worlds better than the old AC clock drive.

The next day I tore it apart and adjusted the worm gear backlash. My dec shaft is bent, the result of having solid metal hand controls on a 5" long solid shaft. I was able to straighten it mostly, so my gear lash is better and more consistent but I plan on replacing the dec shaft soon.

Adjusting the worm lash on the mount (using this link) made the mount VERY responsive and this time I used the polar alignment mount. Goto performance was much better....I think, but clouds conspired against me and I wasn't able to test it very well. One thing I noticed was that the backlash settings caused the stars to jump when slewing. Difficult to describe, but what would happen is the star would jump "forward" before moving and then snap back to the previous position plus the slewed distance. I think its just a backlash adjustment that needs to be done in the controller but I will need a clear night before I can really test it out.

Overall it was a good investment, some gotchas on the install, and some learning curve to deal with but I am happy.

Thanks for all the good info from the those that went before me.

Post Extras:

joebuck
member

Reged: 01/24/11

Loc: Buckeye,Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: prozach]
#4830641 - 09/27/11 03:04 PM

Great tutorial. Just ordered my kit from ioptron for my super polaris mount yesterday. Looks like you covered all the problems that may be encountered. I`ll post my results after I`m done with my mod in about a week!

Post Extras:

joebuck
member

Reged: 01/24/11

Loc: Buckeye,Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: joebuck]
#4830704 - 09/27/11 03:48 PM

It looks like all the different versions of the Vixen SP mount seem to be covered in the different threads here. Mine has the bolted on Dec bracket. Also my saddle plate was broken off on the rear side earlier this spring when my mount accidently fell to the floor from about two feet. Its holding up with a heavy duty super glue repair, but if anyone has a spare saddle plate let me know. I don`t think it will break again as long as I don`t tighten the rear thumbscrew too tightly. Again i`ll post a blog when finished with my Nova goto mod.

Post Extras:

joebuck
member

Reged: 01/24/11

Loc: Buckeye,Arizona

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: joebuck]
#4850933 - 10/08/11 06:02 PM

Received my gotonova upgrade kit last Monday and had it mounted in a few hours. I`m still getting used to its setup and usage as its much different than my old Sky Sensor. The kit was pretty easy to mount on my later model Vixen SP. I`m a little concerned about the RA motor working loose only being held into the saddle with the innermost set screws but it seems to be fine. The DEC motor is also only held with the innermost set screws but I added the large fender washer on top of the bracket with the supplied cap screw. The motors drive smoothly. The goto is a bit off but I think mainly due to poor polar alignment. I`ll keep you posted.

Post Extras:

imcndbl
newbie

Reged: 08/17/11

Loc: VA

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: joebuck]
#4948083 - 12/03/11 02:12 PM

I'm currently in the process of Goto'ing my 1984ish SP mount but have hit a brick wall...I am trying to outfit it with a Skysensor system using the MT-1 motors but need a DEC bracket to fit them. Anyone here know of anyone who has a spare DEC bracket.

Need:

1. 1DEC Bracket
2. 1 MT-1 with manual clutch assembly
3. 1 Skysensor Hand Controller

otherwise, wow this GOTO is awesome!

so maybe those who are upgrading their GOTO from Skysensor to gotonova have some spare parts?

Post Extras:

Dom543
member

Reged: 10/24/11

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: imcndbl]
#5423708 - 09/16/12 12:41 PM

I have a Vixen SP with the old Skysensor II. The hand controller doesn't work any more. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts regarding an upgrade to a new hand controller while keeping the old motors and gears?

Thanks,
--Dom

Post Extras:

orlyandico
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Dom543]
#5423750 - 09/16/12 01:11 PM

if the original skysensor motors are bipolar steppers, use
a littlefoot Vpower. hard to find though - you'll have to troll ebay Germany. easier to find is the Littlefoot Elegance http://www.teleskopsteuerung.de/shop/ but it is rather pricey.

if it is using unipolar steppers would still work, some rewiring would need to be done (google - wiring unipolar as bipolar)

some assembly is required.

Post Extras:

Dom543
member

Reged: 10/24/11

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: orlyandico]
#5430739 - 09/20/12 11:24 AM

Orlyandico,

Thank you for your reply and for calling my attention to the Littlefoot project. The Elegance is beyond my budget but some form of the Vpower kits may be feasible. But first I need to better understand the stepper based control systems.

My original hope was that one of the following approaches would be possible.

1. Use a stepper based commercial handcontroller, e.g. Sky-watcher and the corresponding motor board to control my exisiting motors.

2. Use a dual axis DMD handcontroller and add a computer interface to it. Hopefully something simple, similarly as people add autoguider ports to their dual axis controllers. In this case one could slew manually with the hand controller or use computer control for goto.

But, as said above, first I needed to learn more about stepper based systems. The motors that I have on my SP are the original versions with the DIN7+1 connector on the RA and DIN5+1 in the dec.

Thanks again for the input and any further suggestions or hints would be very much appreciated.

--Dom

Post Extras:

orlyandico
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: Dom543]
#5430944 - 09/20/12 01:22 PM

Actually the easiest solution for you is to buy the Synscan upgrade unit for the EQ5 (which is a clone of the Vixen GP).

The gear ratios are all the same, it is essentially a drop-in replacement.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/synscan-pro-goto-version-3-upgrade-kit-for-eq5.html

sadly I don't think it's sold in the US. 300 UKP less 20% VAT = $400. You get the motors and everything. This is essentially your option 1.

Option 2 is unusable, because the DMD controller can only slew at 32X. Even if you could command it via autoguider, your hair would turn white and it still wouldn't finish slewing.

If you use a Littlefoot Vpower with your existing motors, your hair would still turn white

because as I recall the original Sky Sensor could only slew at 64X which is still pretty slow.

Frankly for the price of the upgrade kit ($400) just buy a used Celestron CG-5 ASGT, which you can get for $400. Remove the motors and transfer them to your Vixen, and you get the advanced Nexstar GoTo with the mechanical niceness of the Vixen.

Then sell off the now driveless CG-5 for $150. Or not (the CG-5 tripod is quite sturdy and an improvement over the Vixen AL tripod).

Post Extras:

Dom543
member

Reged: 10/24/11

Re: Goto'ing a Super Polaris mount new

[Re: orlyandico]
#5441715 - 09/26/12 01:54 PM

Orlyandico,

Thank you for your suggestions. I believe that the SkyView Pro goto upgrade kit that is available from Orion in the US for $500 is the same as what is sold as Synscan in the UK.

I also found a source for the iOptron Gotonova kit for $300 +shipping straight from China.

I am leaning towards your second suggestion of scrapping the motors and electronics from a used CG-5 mount. That way I would have the same system on my SP as on my CGEM. I particularly like and often use the All Star Polar Align feature available in the Celestron software.

So I am keeping an eye on the used markets to see, if a reasonably priced CG-5 comes up.

Thank you again for taking the time to help me.
--Dom

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