TxStars
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/01/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Lost In Space
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Just saw an add on A-Mart foran EM-500 for only $4K.
No I am not the seller but if I needed a good mount I would have already bought it.
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http://txstars.org/
Tak FC-50 / Tak FCT-65 / Tak FC-100
Celestron 8" Schmidt camera,Sand Cast C-8/C-5
"SCUZZO" 300/f 1.1 , 16"f/7.5
Cameras: Nikon F2/Mamiya 645, press 6x7 ,6x9/ Hasselblad 6x6 / Lenses Yes Many - Yay Film
Mounts - GoTo by hand and eye
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Holy Kapeevy Dust! 
That's an incredible price. Isn't that a ~$10K mount?
I wish I had the folding greens, I'd upgrade from my NJP.
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Over 7000 hits on that ad. Wonder if it's legit?, because unless the guy works in the wilderness without a cell phone, why isn't a sale pending now?
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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I emailed the seller, then noticed that the ad shows it was posted in November of last year.
That can't be a real ad.
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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skyler
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/16/06
Posts: 1677
Loc: TGPNW
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I did get a reply to my message about it and it is in "good" condition and he also noted that it was "15 years old".
I did not follow up further about it.
S
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Did the EM-500 exist 15 years ago?
I haven't gotten a reply yet.
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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Dean
Post Laureate
Reged: 12/31/04
Posts: 4960
Loc: Bailey Co Elev 8780 feet
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Quote:
Did the EM-500 exist 15 years ago?
I think so.
It would mean its not a Temma - no GOTO, and I don't think there's a way to upgrade like with the EM200.
What makes me wonder though is there is no circuit box visible in the picture. I think it's on the other side, but if it's 15 years old I'd ask if it has an autoguider port - heck, considering the price I'd make sure it even has a clock drive....
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"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
deanrowe.net/astro
Whats with that avatar?
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie no more
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 25844
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
considering the price I'd make sure it even has a clock drive....
It did at one point; in the EM series the "EM" stands for "electric motor". Of course, it could be defective on an old mount.
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John C
Urban Observatory
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
Meade 80mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Meade 152ED, 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade 12" SCT
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
NJP, LXD700, CGE, GPDX/SS2KPC
ST-10XME, DSI Pro
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Seller has no feedback despite having 3 or 4 other ads (one currently for a Newt OTA with a Galaxy mirror that's only 1/4 wave - is that possible?).
I have an NJP Temma PC (not II) from about 2000 that is just fine. I don't need another non-goto mount.
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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skyler:
I seem to have gotten the same reply this evening. Not enough info, so I asked for more.
I did a search for EM-500 history, and found a pic of an EM-500 in 1992 that didn't have temma, but one in 1993 that did. So, it's not clear still what this is.
More pics for such an expensive item would be helpful. Particularly since any Tak upgrades that might be doable will likely be pricey as well.
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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mlcolbert
sage
Reged: 11/15/07
Posts: 353
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A week or so ago there was a 500 available on a Canadian site. Steve (the seller) had it down to roughly $9000 from memory and that was a Temma 2 in excellent condition. I can also state that he is very friendly and helpful and will give every assistance for the potential buyer.
michael
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zeiss
APQ 130/3x500 mm Telephotos/2xMC80/MC35/5x7 back/lunar and planetary camera
Hasselblad
503cw/500el/m
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TxStars
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/01/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Lost In Space
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It is not a Go-To but still a good price.
The Temma retro fit would likely bring the price up almost to that of a new mount. I would have to ask Art about the exact price.
--------------------
http://txstars.org/
Tak FC-50 / Tak FCT-65 / Tak FC-100
Celestron 8" Schmidt camera,Sand Cast C-8/C-5
"SCUZZO" 300/f 1.1 , 16"f/7.5
Cameras: Nikon F2/Mamiya 645, press 6x7 ,6x9/ Hasselblad 6x6 / Lenses Yes Many - Yay Film
Mounts - GoTo by hand and eye
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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The ad is no longer one of the "featured" ads at the top of the page, and since the listing dates back to November, it doesn't show up now unless you do a search. I hope the seller updates the ad and provides more/better pics.
I really don't need another mount, as I have an NJP that holds all my stuff (not all at the same time! ;oD ) pretty well. It even handles my 12.5" f/23 Classical Cass, though it is a borderline situation.
An EM-500, at nearly twice the mass of an NJP, would probably love that OTA, and maybe a 6" Jaegers piggyback! But I'd have to put it somewhere, I suppose, wouldn't I?
If the seller gets back to me, I may pursue this a bit more, though.
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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Jaxdialation
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 2638
Loc: Northeast, FL
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I guess you guys know the danger involved in upgrading to an EM-500. I got a 400 and found myself feeling terrible for not exploiting the 85 pound capacity (which I think is about 20 pounds understated). A 500 is going to cost you a lot more than the price of the mount  I'd allow at least another $10K if you are moving up from an EM-200.
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John
18/4.3 StarStructure/ZOC on Order!
My Image Gallery
My Weather
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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John:
I figger'd if I went for it, I'd put my 12.5" Cass and my Jaegers 6" f/10 piggyback on it, and maybe even throw in the 6" f/15 Jaegers for good measure! 
Okay, all seriousness aside. I got another non-verbose reply from the seller but still no additional pics. It's got a counterweight shaft and weights, an autoguider port, non-goto, but apparently with encoders and digital position readout. He didn't say how many weights there are. What was standard for the EM-500? How heavy are they?
So, how big is this thing, really? I have an NJP Temma PC. Let's use that as a standard.
On the plus side, my Cass is f/23, for planetary imaging, so I don't absolutely need goto, though it's certainly nice. I imagine I'd want this thing semi-permanently mounted, so weight isn't as big an issue as sheer bulk (I'd have to put it SOMEplace).
Does anybody know whether the autoguider port 15 years ago was the same or different from the one on later mounts (my 2000 NJP has the same port as my 2004 EM-10).
And finally (I think), just how expensive would it be to upgrade it to goto, if that's possible?
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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TxStars
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/01/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Lost In Space
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The EM-500 is a good deal 10-15% larger than the NJP and weighs about 75-80 lbs with no CM shaft or weights.
The Peir is also about 75-80 lbs.
I think John bought it as a complete set with the FCT-150 and it had two 22 lb weights.
The auto guider port is the same.
Without asking Art I would guess 4K
--------------------
http://txstars.org/
Tak FC-50 / Tak FCT-65 / Tak FC-100
Celestron 8" Schmidt camera,Sand Cast C-8/C-5
"SCUZZO" 300/f 1.1 , 16"f/7.5
Cameras: Nikon F2/Mamiya 645, press 6x7 ,6x9/ Hasselblad 6x6 / Lenses Yes Many - Yay Film
Mounts - GoTo by hand and eye
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Hm...
Is Art a member here?
That the autoguider port is the same as the later mounts is a huge plus. (I have an original Skysensor with my Super Polaris, and the main reason for wanting to upgrade that is because I can't autoguide with it).
$4K to upgrade to goto is a pretty big deal, so this mount is probably not a true "bargain" unless I can truly live without the goto for a number of years such that the upgrade isn't as big a "hit" when I do it. And even then, non-goto MI-250's come along for less than that from time to time (and new ones are still under $8K). But maybe that mount is too similar in weight capacity to the NJP to compare to the EM-500?
Also, I assume the EM-500 head doesn't come apart like the EM-400 does? That's a lot of weight to hoist onto the pier (unless it's only done once).
I should probably let this one go...
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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TxStars
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/01/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Lost In Space
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Art is not a member here. He is on the yahoo UncensoredTakGroup and artc@takahashiamerica.com if you need to contact him.
You are correct the EM-500 does not come apart.
--------------------
http://txstars.org/
Tak FC-50 / Tak FCT-65 / Tak FC-100
Celestron 8" Schmidt camera,Sand Cast C-8/C-5
"SCUZZO" 300/f 1.1 , 16"f/7.5
Cameras: Nikon F2/Mamiya 645, press 6x7 ,6x9/ Hasselblad 6x6 / Lenses Yes Many - Yay Film
Mounts - GoTo by hand and eye
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tjparker
journeyman
Reged: 09/02/08
Posts: 5
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First, this is tim53 here. Somehow my password got reset (I swear I didn't forget it!) and I didn't get a response when I tried the "forgot password" option several times, so I've temporarily (hopefully) created a new account.
I picked up this mount from the seller while on vacation a couple weeks ago. It's in good condition, but the electronics are pre-goto and I either fried the motors or the controller board when I tried to run it using the 24-volt inverter that came with my NJP Temma PC.
No huge deal, though, as I intend to upgrade to goto in the near future.
The mount is amazingly solid, from what I can tell (haven't tried to put my Cass on it yet, though). I was surprised to find that lifting the equatorial head doesn't seem any harder than for the NJP. It is heavier, to be sure, but it's also not got so many pointy corners as the NJP does, which must be why it feels comparable.
That pier, though. MAN, what a monster! I may do like the seller did, and leave it outside most of the time (which rusted the screws and legs and inside of the pier a bit). Or, I may try an after market pier at some point (after the goto upgrade).
Is there a source for Tak green paint out there?
-Tim.
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TxStars
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/01/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Lost In Space
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You can get the paint from Art at TNR.
Dont drop the pier or mount on your toes.
--------------------
http://txstars.org/
Tak FC-50 / Tak FCT-65 / Tak FC-100
Celestron 8" Schmidt camera,Sand Cast C-8/C-5
"SCUZZO" 300/f 1.1 , 16"f/7.5
Cameras: Nikon F2/Mamiya 645, press 6x7 ,6x9/ Hasselblad 6x6 / Lenses Yes Many - Yay Film
Mounts - GoTo by hand and eye
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tjparker
journeyman
Reged: 09/02/08
Posts: 5
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I emailed Art. It'd be neat getting this thing updated and holding an OTA or two!
-Tim.
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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In case others here might have ideas, this is what I sent Art in an email this morning...
Quote:
When I tried to run my mount on the 24-volt inverter that came with the NJP Temma PC mount, the lights didn't come on and I smelled burning insulation. I probably had it connected for about 5 seconds. I quickly took the panel screws off and opened it up. The smell was still there, but there was no smoke and I could find nothing burned. Next day, I bought a DC adapter for my cigarette lighter in my van that was switchable to 12-volts, but only put out half an amp. When I turned on the power switch, the LEDs on the control pad and the mount came on, but the stepper motors weren't running. So, I suspect there wasn't enough amperage to run the stepper motors, assuming I didn't damage anything by trying to run it on 24-volts (but I'm no electrician).
I should probably try running the mount via a 12-volt gel cell battery I have, which is 17 amp-hour. I'll need to make a plug/aligator clip wire to do this though.
This is just to see if the drives are okay. Also, in case this particular mount can't be upgraded to Temma 2.
Thoughts?
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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TxStars
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/01/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Lost In Space
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If I remember the older EM-500 would draw just under 1 amp at 12v . The 24v for the Temma was way too much for the elecrtonics and a diode or two got fried and perhaps the micro chip on the board too. That is a big OUCH  and too bad because the old drives work great.
The mount should be upgradeable to Temma 2.
Let us know how it works out.
--------------------
http://txstars.org/
Tak FC-50 / Tak FCT-65 / Tak FC-100
Celestron 8" Schmidt camera,Sand Cast C-8/C-5
"SCUZZO" 300/f 1.1 , 16"f/7.5
Cameras: Nikon F2/Mamiya 645, press 6x7 ,6x9/ Hasselblad 6x6 / Lenses Yes Many - Yay Film
Mounts - GoTo by hand and eye
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Art has been suggesting that I fix it rather than upgrade, to save costs.
I appreciate that, and would be glad to give it a try if I knew enough about what to do and where I could get parts (and a manual with pictures!), if that's possible.
edited to add: I doubt the motors are bad, so is there any collection of old controller boards that have come out of mounts that were upgraded to Temma over the past 15 years?
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
Edited by tim53 (09/05/08 02:45 PM)
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TxStars
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/01/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Lost In Space
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I'm not sure but you might be able to use the electronics out of a EM-200, you might ask Art if that would work with the EM-500 motors.
That might give you more chances of getting a used replacement. Takahashi might also be able to repair the electronics you have.
--------------------
http://txstars.org/
Tak FC-50 / Tak FCT-65 / Tak FC-100
Celestron 8" Schmidt camera,Sand Cast C-8/C-5
"SCUZZO" 300/f 1.1 , 16"f/7.5
Cameras: Nikon F2/Mamiya 645, press 6x7 ,6x9/ Hasselblad 6x6 / Lenses Yes Many - Yay Film
Mounts - GoTo by hand and eye
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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In case someone on here has parts or knows where to get them, here are a couple of pix of my mount.
Panel:
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Digital setting circle display:
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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I meant to note that the crinkly and discolered stuff at the edges of the panel in the picture aren't oxydation of the aluminum - the seller never took the protective plastic film off the panel in the 15 years he had it!
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Well, poo.
I just got an update on the cost to convert this mount to Temma II from TN: $4500.
That's a far cry above the $2500 estimate I was quoted before I purchased the mount.
I'm not going to do that.
So, I'm going to be looking into alternatives, starting with getting the EM-500i board repaired.
Anybody know of any aftermarket alternatives?
I saw on an ad for an EM-500 mount for sale a while ago that the seller had an OGS drive put in his mount. But there's no info on that on the OGS website (and the drive system that is listed is more expensive than a complete EM-500 mount!).
Procyon-Systems also, and theirs is Mac Compatible (but so is Temma II via EquinoX).
Siderial Technologies? I haven't looked into that yet.
Others?
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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garymck
member
Reged: 02/22/05
Posts: 90
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if it runs with stepper motors consider doing a Bartels drive, cheap, easy, and as accurate as any commercial drive going.
see my article:
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1538
cheers Gary
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Mike Clemens
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/26/05
Posts: 4665
Loc: Wasilla, Alaska 61N
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> to Temma II from TN: $4500.
GASP!
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2270
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Hi Gary:
I looked at the Bartels drive, and decided that since the slew speeds with my existing steppers would be rather glacial, and the Siderial Technology version with the servo motors still totaled less than $800, I went ahead and ordered that from Lenord.
I've seen SiTech's Dob rig at RTMC a couple of times and found it impressive, especially for the price.
I had also found what I fried on the original board - an IC had a nasty blister right in the middle of it when I opened it up and looked at it under good lighting. So, I suppose that replacing the IC would be fairly straightforward (if delicate), but I'd still have a non-goto antique drive. But for hoots, I may do that someday so that the whole thing is reversible, should anybody who owns the mount after me cares about Tak authenticity.
The nice thing about the SciTech (or Bartels and perhaps a few other aftermarket goto upgrades as well) is that I've got a couple of other mounts I'd like to upgrade someday - an old Super Polaris and a Springfield that I built 28 years ago that I put Meade 2080 AC drive in (with a PE of about 90 arc seconds!). With the SiTech unit, all I'd need to do is by servos for these mounts (and perhaps change the settings in software) and use everything else for all three mounts.
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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