royalflash
member
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Munich
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the latitude adjustment screws on my new EQ6 can be incredibly stiff to turn and it can be very difficult to polar align the mount. I know the two latitude adjustment screws are supposed to work in opposition and that you have to loosen one before tightening the other. But even sometimes for example unscrewing one of the screws out of the mount(which shouldn't then be pushing on anything) can be a major trial of strength- particularly when the scope is mounted. The threads of the screws and holes seem Ok as you can usually screw the screws in most of the way easily without much resistance. Sometimes though the screws become almost impossibe to turn and I just have to give up on trying to fine tune the polar alignment- particularly when the scope and weights are on the mount. I have tried greasing the screws and even squirting them with WD40 but to no avail.
What is making the screws so difficult to adjust? is there flexing of the mount when the weight is added? and what can be done if anything to overcome this problem?
Any ideas please?
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Celestron C9.25
EQ6-Foto-Goto (mod)
Canon EOS 350D
Philips SPC900NC
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RAKing
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 908
Loc: Clouds-ville, Virginia
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I'm stumped as to why the screw would be hard to loosen - unless it is jammed and close to stripping.
For the rest - there can be a lot of friction involved, especially if you load up the weights and OTA. My mount came with a thrust bearing for the center bolt, but the mount still has a 100 percent friction fit between the mount and tripod.
I usually do my polar alignment with a single counterweight and NO OTA. The single counterweight puts just enough pre-load on the head for a proper alignment, yet doesn't introduce too much friction.
Hope this helps,
Ron
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Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
Orion XT12i / Moonlite CR2 "Time Machine"
"Hi Def" TV-102 Apo
Three Ethos and a 31T5 "The Heavenly Quartet"
GM-8 GEM / A-P Portable Pier
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kaaikop
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/13/08
Posts: 517
Loc: Ste-Therese, Canada
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I am experiencing the exact same thing...
even with nothing installed on the mount.
It's so stiff, I am afraid to break the bolt, so I just leave it...
Oh by the way, I was in Munich last fall...
Beautiful, beautiful city!
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Benoit, RASC Montreal
-C 9.25XLT on EQ6 Pro / ED80SF on Portamount
-TV Plossls, Radians, Naglers, LVW's & UO Orthos.
-a pair of 7x50's
Edited by kaaikop (07/28/08 11:58 AM)
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kaaikop
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/13/08
Posts: 517
Loc: Ste-Therese, Canada
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Royalflash, your mount looks pretty new, right?
Mine is, could be that there is a bit of steel "shavings" in the threaded hole since it's so new, that probably makes it stiff.
I just remove both bolts, and sprinkled them with oil for bicycle chains, there are now moving much easier.
If you dont have that, some good oil for sewing machines should be just as good.
Hope that works for you...
Once you got it set properly, you probably dont need to move it ever again.
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Benoit, RASC Montreal
-C 9.25XLT on EQ6 Pro / ED80SF on Portamount
-TV Plossls, Radians, Naglers, LVW's & UO Orthos.
-a pair of 7x50's
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RandallK
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/10/06
Posts: 751
Loc: Nanaimo, B. C. Canada
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Same thing on my HEQ5-Pro. I Polar align without any load (scope or counterweights), but still pretty stiff. If you're setting up at the same (or near the same) latitude all the time, I imagine that that particular region of the thread on the bolt will eventually slacken up. Other than that, just remember to back of on one while adjusting the other.
I thought I had a great idea when packing up and taking the mount to the local dark site....using the original stryofoam and box to protect the mount head. It was the most aggravating thing to try to get the head at the right angle to fit into the moulded packaging. I slackened off the latitude bolts (sore fingers afterwards!) and tried to push the head to the right angle but it wouldn't budge. I ended up just putting it in layers of bubble wrap and I'll never attempt to do that again, I'll just leave it at its current setting. I suppose it's good in some ways, keeping everything nice and tight, and, for that matter, if you're in the same setting each observing night, you only need to tweak these bolts but a slight amount.
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Scopes: Meade SC-8AT w UHTC
SkyWatcher 5" F/5 Reflector
SkyWatcher 127mm MAK
Mount: HEQ5 Pro
Cameras: Orion Starshoot DS Colour Imager V.1
Imaging Source Webcam DMK21AU04.AS
Palm TX PDA w Astromist and Bluetooth wireles control.
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astro_baby
member
Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 53
Loc: United Kingdom
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This seems a common problem with EQ6 and HEQ5 mounts. Ite because the Synta supplied screws are quite soft and susciptible to bend and eventually strip the thread of the mount. I know someone whos new(ish) EQ6 has had this problem big time and the only resolution was to drill out the old bolts and re-tap the threads on the mount.
I would suggest getting the astro developments replacement bolts for your mount - check out the link Astro Developments
Its money well spent to protect the mount. I had the same problem with my HEQ5 and swapped to these bolts. No problems at all now.
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No pessimist ever discovered the secret of the stars, or sailed to an uncharted land, or opened a new doorway for the human spirit
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yg1968
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 1755
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Thanks for the link. I will be ordering these replacement bolts. Hopefully, they ship to Canada.
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skyler
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/16/06
Posts: 1424
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I know that this may not be useful to overseas folks but Telescope Stability Systems (TSS) does a mod that works like the SXW or SXD lock lever so the movement is much easier to adjust with the Alt adjust screws. I had it done and it helps a lot. You can see it on AM as it is the Atlas mount I am currently selling since I am going to try out an EM200.
S
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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.
Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1208
Loc: New Hampshire
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You COULD just go to the local HARDWARE STORE and buy a couple of stainless steel Allen bolts! They come in those threads and once installed are much easier to use. The wrench also makes finer adjustments possible.
CS
Steve
--------------------
Stephen Forbes - President
Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC
61 Valhalla Farm Road
Hillsboro, NH 03244
Web: http://TrapeziumTelescopes.com
Email: Stephen.Forbes@TrapeziumTelescopes.com
Phone: 1.603.325.0619
6.25" f/15 Mogey/NASA refractor on GOTO GEM
6" f/15 Jaegers refractor on GOTO GEM
5.1" f/8 Burgess on CG-5 w/GOTONOVA
4" f/15 Jaegers on ORION ATLAS GOTO
1975 Celestron Orange Tube C8
iOptron Mini Tower
Lots of other stuff, too!
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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.
Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1208
Loc: New Hampshire
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By the way, the Allen bolts are only a few dollars and if purchased locally, there's no shipping!! LOL
Steve
--------------------
Stephen Forbes - President
Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC
61 Valhalla Farm Road
Hillsboro, NH 03244
Web: http://TrapeziumTelescopes.com
Email: Stephen.Forbes@TrapeziumTelescopes.com
Phone: 1.603.325.0619
6.25" f/15 Mogey/NASA refractor on GOTO GEM
6" f/15 Jaegers refractor on GOTO GEM
5.1" f/8 Burgess on CG-5 w/GOTONOVA
4" f/15 Jaegers on ORION ATLAS GOTO
1975 Celestron Orange Tube C8
iOptron Mini Tower
Lots of other stuff, too!
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royalflash
member
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Munich
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thats quite scary that the screws are soft and can break- I have really had to apply some force to these screws at times - I was scared of them breaking but reassured myself with the thought that they wouldn't supply screws that weren't up to the job- but now it appears they actually would! I will definitely be making some serious enquiries into getting some replacements ASAP.
thanks everyone for the input- it has been really useful
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Celestron C9.25
EQ6-Foto-Goto (mod)
Canon EOS 350D
Philips SPC900NC
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TheSheriff
sage
Reged: 07/15/07
Posts: 218
Loc: Oregon
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This post may be of interest.
I'm sure there are many others on this subject.
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Brad
C8SE XLT, TMB 80SS, Orion ST-80
Atlas EQ-G/EQMOD
40D (stock), WO 0.8 Flat II, SSAG
Edited by Charlie Hein (07/29/08 07:40 PM)
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yg1968
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 1755
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Quote:
Thanks for the link. I will be ordering these replacement bolts. Hopefully, they ship to Canada.
Just as an update, they do ship to Canada and the shipping fees are reasonable.
http://www.axio35.dsl.pipex.com/astrodev/Synta%20cables.htm
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royalflash
member
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Munich
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I am inclined to get just some Allen head steel screws as I am a bit worried about using the astro development ones with plastic bits. If they seize up like the ones I have at the moment I canŽt see any plastic part withstanding the forces I have to apply to get them out. Allen head ones would also have the advantage of being able to get better leverage with an allen key if they do seize. The only trouble is it will be easier said than done to find M10 x 1.5 mm thread screws at least 100 mm long. I had a look in the local building supplies shop on the way home and there was nothing suitable.
Does anyone know of an online source for such screws?
Also the link to the other similar thread was useful as perhaps the strange seizing problem is related to the interaction between the end of the screw and the soft base of the mount. It would certainly be consistent. The epoxy attachment of the steel bearing surfaces was an elegant solution.
It is a bit disappointing though that these basic modifications are necessary with a quite expensive product just to get it working properly.
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Celestron C9.25
EQ6-Foto-Goto (mod)
Canon EOS 350D
Philips SPC900NC
Edited by royalflash (07/29/08 01:14 PM)
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yg1968
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 1755
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Quote:
I am a bit worried about using the astro development ones with plastic bits.
Only the handles are in plastic. The rest is stainless steel. An I believe that they are not as hard to move (or remove) as the other ones. If you look in the other thread, one poster said that the replacement bolts from the UK company were great.
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royalflash
member
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Munich
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I just took the screws out completely and have noticed that the altitude pivot is very difficult to move. In fact I cannot change the altitude setting just by pressing on the top of the mount. Is this normal that the adjustment is so stiff that it cannot be changed in this way? Is there anyway to slacken the pivot off so that it pivots more easily?
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Celestron C9.25
EQ6-Foto-Goto (mod)
Canon EOS 350D
Philips SPC900NC
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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.
Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1208
Loc: New Hampshire
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There is a pivot bolt through the middle. You can pry off the caps and loosen it ever so slightly. That should help.
Steve
--------------------
Stephen Forbes - President
Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC
61 Valhalla Farm Road
Hillsboro, NH 03244
Web: http://TrapeziumTelescopes.com
Email: Stephen.Forbes@TrapeziumTelescopes.com
Phone: 1.603.325.0619
6.25" f/15 Mogey/NASA refractor on GOTO GEM
6" f/15 Jaegers refractor on GOTO GEM
5.1" f/8 Burgess on CG-5 w/GOTONOVA
4" f/15 Jaegers on ORION ATLAS GOTO
1975 Celestron Orange Tube C8
iOptron Mini Tower
Lots of other stuff, too!
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royalflash
member
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Munich
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I just tried prying at one of the caps but it doesnt feel like it will come off easily without destroying the plastic cap. If necessary I could live without the EQ6 cap but it would be a shame to lose the altitude scale on the other side. I leaned on the pivot and have got it moving but it is very stiff and I have to lean on the pivot to move it
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Celestron C9.25
EQ6-Foto-Goto (mod)
Canon EOS 350D
Philips SPC900NC
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Old Dinosaur
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/08/07
Posts: 864
Loc: Out in the sagebrush
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Those side caps are glued on aren't they? I had to get them off a Vixen GP, which has a similar alt adjustment, and had to break them both. But that's what had to be done. Yours may just have had the nut on the through bolt torqued down too much.
Kind of a pain, but I don't think there's any way around it if that axle is too tight.
And if you replace those way too soft adjusting bolts with metric machine screws, either hex head or socket head, they don't have to be as long as the originals. Once your set to about your latitude all you need are bolts just long enough to reach in to the toggle with enough extra thread for fine adjustment. No sense in having more cord catching stuff sticking out than needed.
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WRS Observatory
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royalflash
member
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Munich
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well its done now I have prised the caps off and they are destroyed- but on the plus side I found one of the plastic film washers on the pivot is very deformed and might be the cause of the sticking problem. So if I replace the washer and set the appropriate tension on the pivot bolt I think this should improve the problem. IŽll also order some replacement screws.
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Celestron C9.25
EQ6-Foto-Goto (mod)
Canon EOS 350D
Philips SPC900NC
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 6678
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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FWIW, I've never had a problem with the stock bolts.
Charlie
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Weston CSC:
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RandallK
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/10/06
Posts: 751
Loc: Nanaimo, B. C. Canada
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The caps are nice to have but if you align to Polaris from where you're located, you've got your latitude! SkyWatcher might be able to supply you with the caps. I'd try contacting them.
--------------------
Scopes: Meade SC-8AT w UHTC
SkyWatcher 5" F/5 Reflector
SkyWatcher 127mm MAK
Mount: HEQ5 Pro
Cameras: Orion Starshoot DS Colour Imager V.1
Imaging Source Webcam DMK21AU04.AS
Palm TX PDA w Astromist and Bluetooth wireles control.
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yg1968
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 1755
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Quote:
FWIW, I've never had a problem with the stock bolts.
They become tight around 40-45 degrees of latitude (at 26 degrees, they are fine). You can try it and you'll see. It's more of an annoyance than a problem.
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 6678
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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Quote:
Quote:
FWIW, I've never had a problem with the stock bolts.
They become tight around 40-45 degrees of latitude (at 26 degrees, they are fine). You can try it and you'll see. It's more of an annoyance than a problem.
Makes perfect sense... just move to South Florida and there's no trouble, right?
Seriously though that does make sense.
Charlie
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Weston CSC:
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royalflash
member
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Munich
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After my in depth study of the EQ6 including taking it apart it would seem that the problems with the EQ6 polar alignment is caused by the following:
1) the pivot is too tight- this is not only the pivot bolt but there are three grub screws inside the pivot which regulate the tightness of the pivot (see the TSS Mod referred to previously)- solution- slacken off the pivot bolt and replace the 3 grub screws in the pivot with M5 screws that can be adjusted from outside the mount (as in the TSS Mod)
2) the lug on the inside of the mount against which the adjustment screws press is too soft (its cast alu) and results in binding of the screws against the mount when they burrow in to the lug- solution -epoxy gluing hard steel bearing surfaces onto the lug.
3) the latitude adjustment screws themselves are soft and can bend so if you put them under pressure this bending can result in seizing of the scres in the mount-solution get better mounting screws M10 x 1.5 mm thread.
4) the plastic film washers can deform and also block the pivoting action of the mount- solution replace the plastic washer.
It is quite amazing how many problems there can be with a simple pivot!
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Celestron C9.25
EQ6-Foto-Goto (mod)
Canon EOS 350D
Philips SPC900NC
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Billy Bl.
member
Reged: 05/26/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Germany
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I'm not sure what you're talking about and what I think you're talking about are the same thing, but... When I first got my EQ6 and tried to screw the latitude adjustment bolt to raise the angle of the mount head (or whatever it's called), I encountered pretty stiff resistance and decided not to press my luck with forcing things. The mount head is pretty heavy, and the bolt is trying to lift this weight. All I do is lift the mount head with my hand so that there is no longer any resistance to screwing the bolt. So then I screw the bolt a bit with my little pinky, lower the head back down onto the bolt, have a look, and repeat until it's either OK or a bit too high. If too high, then it's an easy matter to unscrew the bolt a bit since the weight of the head is now pushing down on the bolt rather than the other way around. Am I talking about something different?
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royalflash
member
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Munich
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we seem to be discussing the same thing- just in your case it sounds like the pivot was set more or less right. There was no way I could more the mount head by hand while it was on the tripod. I could just about move it if I had the mount on the carpet and leaned my whole (not inconsiderable) body weight on the mount head (96kg).
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Celestron C9.25
EQ6-Foto-Goto (mod)
Canon EOS 350D
Philips SPC900NC
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Billy Bl.
member
Reged: 05/26/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Germany
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OK, now I understand your problem. Sorry, but I'm afraid I can't offer any help there. But good luck. You'd think the manufacturers or suppliers would check these things before shipping.
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dvb
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/18/05
Posts: 2040
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Thanks for the suggestions, Royal Flash.
Even minor adjustments to my latitude between 49* and 50* requires quite a bit of force. Softer metals are probably deforming.
--------------------
Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 Newt on Matilda
Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 Collapsible Dob
Meade 8" SN f/4
Celestron C8 SCT
Celestron C6 SCT
Skywatcher ED100
Skywatcher ED80
EQ6 Pro "Matilda"
AT Voyager
Skymaster 15x70
Mallincam HyperColor Plus
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royalflash
member
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Munich
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Just tried out the mount after effecting the above modifications apart from the new latitude adjustment screws (as they have not arrived yet). Polar alignment is now like a dream. It is very easy to change the angle of the mount head and it can now be done very precisely and quickly. If you have similar problems I would recommend taking the pivot it apart and modifying it even with the inevitable loss of the plastic covers.
--------------------
Celestron C9.25
EQ6-Foto-Goto (mod)
Canon EOS 350D
Philips SPC900NC
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RandallK
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/10/06
Posts: 751
Loc: Nanaimo, B. C. Canada
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If you move quite a bit north or south of your current latitude, I would maybe say yes. But if you stay put, it should only take a fraction of a turn either way when you set up and for that, I'd rather have it a bit tight.
--------------------
Scopes: Meade SC-8AT w UHTC
SkyWatcher 5" F/5 Reflector
SkyWatcher 127mm MAK
Mount: HEQ5 Pro
Cameras: Orion Starshoot DS Colour Imager V.1
Imaging Source Webcam DMK21AU04.AS
Palm TX PDA w Astromist and Bluetooth wireles control.
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yg1968
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 1755
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