Telescope Reviews: My CGEM is bust ;(

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Roy M.
super member

Reged: 01/31/06

Loc: Northern Virginia

My CGEM is bust ;(
#2897589 - 01/30/09 11:52 AM

I posted in Yahoo groups as well, so I'll provide a cross link if an answer is found...

So last night I finally was hoping to hit first light with the CGEM,
it did not happen.

1. I was able to connect with NexRemote fine.

2. I started to do 2 star alignment but the stars that it gave me did
not correspond to the sky at the time, I had entered the proper
coordinates.

3. Then I enabled GPS, and tried again, the system recognized GPS
since I saw the coordinates and time updated. Still the alignment
stars would not list (e.g., Capella).

4. I connected the Starshoot autoguider to see if I just could
capture some pics, but to no avail, the scope just went crazy,
slewing all over the place.

5. After a reset, every time I pressed "Enter" to start a type of
alignment, the telescope would start slewing (before selecting a
star) and it would go all the way until the scope was upside down.

6. There was a point were I passed the quickalign, but the scope
would do jerks every 10 seconds or so, instead of a steady slew. And
it was making sounds that did not seem normal.

7. I performed a factory reset. I saw the same behavior, the scope
started slewing all the way on declination until I had to release the
clutch top prevent straining motor.

Right now I cannot do anything becaus ethe scope starts slewing when
I hit enter on any type of alignment. I may have a bad unit. I have
had an Advanced Series Mount for 4 years and never had a problem like
this.

I'm pretty bummed out.

May the haze clear for you all,

Roy

Post Extras:

Yedgy
professor emeritus

Reged: 07/22/08

Loc: Phoenix, AZ, USA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Roy M.]
#2897593 - 01/30/09 11:56 AM

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Roy. Did you try doing the alignment with the HC instead of NexRemote?

Tony

Post Extras:

jrcrilly
Refractor wienie no more

Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Roy M.]
#2897612 - 01/30/09 12:09 PM

Quote:

2. I started to do 2 star alignment but the stars that it gave me did
not correspond to the sky at the time, I had entered the proper
coordinates.

3. Then I enabled GPS, and tried again, the system recognized GPS
since I saw the coordinates and time updated. Still the alignment
stars would not list (e.g., Capella).

That sounds like an incorrect time zone setting.

Quote:

5. After a reset, every time I pressed "Enter" to start a type of
alignment, the telescope would start slewing (before selecting a
star) and it would go all the way until the scope was upside down.

6. There was a point were I passed the quickalign, but the scope
would do jerks every 10 seconds or so, instead of a steady slew.

Those characteristics indicate an open loop situation - the encoders aren't being correctly read. I'd start by verifying the power source and connections; the comparators get flaky if the supply isn't good.

Post Extras:

Lane
Post Laureate

Reged: 11/19/07

Loc: Frisco, Texas

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Roy M.]
#2897616 - 01/30/09 12:10 PM

Very sorry to here about that Roy. I hope you saved all the boxes because its looking like that mount may need to take a one-way trip back to the dealer.

Sorry to rub it in but mine is working perfect, dead on goto's and that polar alignment routine is super sweet. No more polar alignment scopes for me. The only problem I had was on the first night when the scope's power kept going on and off and resetting the hand controller. Then I realized I was suppose to screw the power cable to the mount

not just push it on. To bad I skipped over it in the manual in my haste to get outside and try out the mount. I have accidentally pulled the power cord out of my other telescopes before so that is a nice feature.

Post Extras:

Gord
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 01/06/04

Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lane]
#2897779 - 01/30/09 01:34 PM

I'll also chime in with checking the power side of things. And also all the connections (make sure everything is seated properly). If it's anything like the AS-GT, it is sensitive to power.

I had similar behaviours with my AS-GT. It would do the wild slews, sometimes starting up on it's own, sometimes working ok for a bit, then going crazy. And sometimes it would do the "jerky" slew.

Strange thing was some nights it would work perfectly. Others, no matter what you did, it wasn't going to work. In the end (after checking & changing anything I could to do with power, upgrading firmware, etc.), I talked to Celestron and they said to send it back.

It was a bad motor control board. They repaired it, checked the rest of the mount over, and after that, it was perfect. Celestron was really great to deal with. I wasn't thrilled to have gotten a bad mount, but they were very good at resolving the situation.

Good luck in getting it sorted out.

-Gord

Post Extras:

Roy M.
super member

Reged: 01/31/06

Loc: Northern Virginia

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Gord]
#2897946 - 01/30/09 03:00 PM

Guys, thanks for the feedback. I did have the zone set properly to Easter standard... I am however going to look at the power supply part of things.

One question, when this scope is slewing fast, is the mnottor supposed to sound "waaaooowaaaaooowaaaaaoo", the scope was balanced, did not sound right....

Post Extras:

Lane
Post Laureate

Reged: 11/19/07

Loc: Frisco, Texas

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Roy M.]
#2897972 - 01/30/09 03:15 PM

Yep, the cgem sounds like that, not pretty is it, my lx200 does the same thing.

Post Extras:

David P
member

Reged: 01/21/09

Loc: Southern California

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lane]
#2898019 - 01/30/09 03:51 PM

Well, there's your problem Roy, you have it set to Easter standard and we haven't even hit Valentine's Day yet.

Post Extras:

J_D_Metzger
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 05/13/04

Loc: Tucson, AZ

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: David P]
#2898072 - 01/30/09 04:22 PM

Quote:

Well, there's your problem Roy, you have it set to Easter standard and we haven't even hit Valentine's Day yet.

Post Extras:

Trombone
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 07/11/05

Loc: Canadian west (and north!)

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: David P]
#2899424 - 01/31/09 10:54 AM

And we don't even know if it is Orthodox or not.

Post Extras:

InterStellarGuy
professor emeritus

Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: Nebraska

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Trombone]
#2900016 - 01/31/09 03:53 PM

wow you guys are on a roll with the cgem jokes hahahaha

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: InterStellarGuy]
#2900081 - 01/31/09 04:27 PM

Quote:

wow you guys are on a roll with the cgem jokes hahahaha

Unfortunately it appears that these days it's Celestron's quality that's the joke! I sure hope they turn things around, but it's getting depressing. This isn't a good time to be disappointing consumers when your business depends on their disposable income.

Beo

Post Extras:

Roy M.
super member

Reged: 01/31/06

Loc: Northern Virginia

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2900148 - 01/31/09 04:59 PM

+1 on the jokes...

-1 on CGEM...

So I eliminated all variables by connecting the HC to the mount without anything else, I removed scopes and weights; When it got to the align screen, the declination did a couple of loops, but THIs TIME, I heard loose washers, bolts, and God knows what as it was turning. Unless this is a "new feature" the mount is defective. I called OPT and they said they were out of stock and had 8 orders. I packed the mount and I am waiting a call from them to see where I should ship it.

While I bummed out that I got the dud, I'll probably end up better in the long run, raher happen now than later.

to be continued...

of course the sky is blue with 0 haze. Torture I tell you.

Post Extras:

rmollise
Postmaster

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2900278 - 01/31/09 06:07 PM

Quote:

Unfortunately it appears that these days it's Celestron's quality that's the joke! I sure hope they turn things around, but it's getting depressing. This isn't a good time to be disappointing consumers when your business depends on their disposable income.

Beo

Not that I've noticed. Frankly, I'd say their quality is pretty much as good as it ever has been, and probably better than it's been over the last decade. Still, assuming this is not pilot error, which is always possible with go-to rigs, there will be the occasional ringer, especially with a just out the door product at these price points.

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: rmollise]
#2900435 - 01/31/09 07:33 PM

Hey Uncle Rod,

Well, if the quality I'm seeing is representative of the best that Celestron's ever been, then I REALLY made a mistake buying Celestron! The latest chapter in my Celestron woes is that the replacement SkyScout they sent me that actually DOES work, hangs regularly and the only way to power off or reset is to unscrew the battery cover and remove the batteries! After first sending me the directions on flash upgrading mounts and NexStar HCs and suggesting that I try upgrading the firmware, their tech support wants me to send it back AGAIN. Some Christmas present that turned out to be. Maybe for Celestron, but certainly not for me and my family!

Beo

Post Extras:

Mike28
Post Laureate

Reged: 06/21/03

Loc: Morris County,NJ

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Roy M.]
#2900660 - 01/31/09 09:44 PM

Roy you also might be having a power suppy problem. When it gets to the low temperatures, The cold will drain power even if your power supply was fully charged night before. This can cause you headaches with the software & hand control. Keep the power supply in the car if your cable is long enough to reach. Keeping the HC warm is also a good idea.

Edited by Mike28 (01/31/09 09:45 PM)

Post Extras:

mmagrunmo
sage

Reged: 04/26/05

Re: Get your CGEM aligned yet? new

[Re: Roy M.]
#2900972 - 02/01/09 01:27 AM

Quote:

+1 on the jokes... -1 on CGEM... So I eliminated all variables by connecting the HC to the mount without anything else, I removed scopes and weights; When it got to the align screen, the declination did a couple of loops, but THIs TIME, I heard loose washers, bolts, and God knows what as it was turning. Unless this is a "new feature" the mount is defective. I called OPT and they said they were out of stock and had 8 orders. I packed the mount and I am waiting a call from them to see where I should ship it.

While I bummed out that I got the dud, I'll probably end up better in the long run, raher happen now than later.

to be continued...

of course the sky is blue with 0 haze. Torture I tell you.

I know you are frustrated, but..... if you have not yet tried a DIFFERENT power supply, then you have not eliminated the most likely source of these kinds of problems.

As far as the "nuts and bolts" noise.... you mentioned removing CW and OTA. is it possible that what you were hearing was clutch knobs flopping or perhaps loose dovetail stuff???

Nexremote likes to play alone. Were you using the hand controller at all when using the nexremote? All kinds of funny stuff can happen when you get those two trying to talk to a mount at the same time.

I have a hunch you are only a setting, sequence, or question or two away from having THAT mount working perfectly. There are lots of people here who seem willing to help you do that.

Edited by mmagrunmo (02/01/09 01:31 AM)

Post Extras:

TheMenace
sage

Reged: 10/21/08

Re: Get your CGEM aligned yet? new

[Re: mmagrunmo]
#2901088 - 02/01/09 04:53 AM

I really was ready to pull the trigger on the cgem,rather than the eqg,with it's better software and mounting shoe.
In the back of my mind I was wondering if the first models would have some issues.
I hope you get it straightened out quickly,without too many headaches.

Post Extras:

rmollise
Postmaster

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2901226 - 02/01/09 08:54 AM

Quote:

Hey Uncle Rod,

Well, if the quality I'm seeing is representative of the best that Celestron's ever been, then I REALLY made a mistake buying Celestron! The latest chapter in my Celestron woes is that the replacement SkyScout they sent me that actually DOES work, hangs regularly and the only way to power off or reset is to unscrew the battery cover and remove the batteries! After first sending me the directions on flash upgrading mounts and NexStar HCs and suggesting that I try upgrading the firmware, their tech support wants me to send it back AGAIN. Some Christmas present that turned out to be. Maybe for Celestron, but certainly not for me and my family!

Beo

Sorry to hear about your problem. My SkyScout has worked perfectly as have those of the folks I know. Have ya tried upgrading the firmware? Sounds like a computer glitch. If it don't work right, give 'em a holler. There've been some bum SkyScouts, but mostly they are accurate and reliable. I use mine constantly both with my students and to help locate/identify Polaris/alignment stars before it is good and dark. Wouldn't part with it...it has saved my bacon a couple of times: "Is that Hamal or not?"

Post Extras:

CHASLX200
Post Laureate

Reged: 09/29/07

Loc: Tampa area Florida

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: rmollise]
#2901280 - 02/01/09 09:38 AM

They sure don't make mounts like they did in the 70's. All you did was plug in the RA drive and you were set.

Chas

Post Extras:

AlienRatDog
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 07/15/05

Loc: Ann Arbor

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Roy M.]
#2901321 - 02/01/09 09:58 AM

Just send it back, I wouldn't even try to repair it, you paid so much money for it, it should be running perfectly as it is new, just send it in and get another...make the dealer pay the shipping if possible...

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: rmollise]
#2901764 - 02/01/09 01:24 PM

Quote:

Have ya tried upgrading the firmware?

Yeah, that was the first thing I'd done when I received the replacement unit, as it was still the old firmware. What I don't know is if this was a NEW unit or just a refurb that still had the same problem someone else had returned it for.

Hey, and don't get me wrong; I LOVE the SkyScout for what it does, but having to pull batteries from it by removing a screw-on cover in order to reset it is a totally unacceptable issue to live with. And the fact that it EATS batteries, and just powering it on for the first satellite fix is enough to drop the battery indicator a notch or two is pretty sad. IF I can get one that works before the warranty expires, I plan to make an adapter that will let me power the unit off a Power Tank. Still not sure why it doesn't pull power from the scope through the USB when connected. That's a disappointing oversight on Celestron's part.

Ah well, guess it's time to let this thread get back to being about problems with the CGEM!

Beo

Post Extras:

rmollise
Postmaster

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: CHASLX200]
#2901832 - 02/01/09 02:03 PM

Quote:

They sure don't make mounts like they did in the 70's. All you did was plug in the RA drive and you were set.

Chas

Yep. Plug it in and the mount ran at sidereal rate. AND THAT WAS ALL!

Post Extras:

Roy M.
super member

Reged: 01/31/06

Loc: Northern Virginia

Re: Get your CGEM aligned yet? new

[Re: mmagrunmo]
#2901916 - 02/01/09 02:57 PM

Quote:

As far as the "nuts and bolts" noise.... you mentioned removing CW and OTA. is it possible that what you were hearing was clutch knobs flopping or perhaps loose dovetail stuff???

Nexremote likes to play alone. Were you using the hand controller at all when using the nexremote? All kinds of funny stuff can happen when you get those two trying to talk to a mount at the same time.

I have a hunch you are only a setting, sequence, or question or two away from having THAT mount working perfectly. There are lots of people here who seem willing to help you do that.

I fully charged the PowerTank, used the cable that came with scope, fully screwed in the power connector. The scope turned on ok. I removed NexRemote and GPS out of the equation. When it started doing the non-stop slew, it had plenty of juice. The loose parts WERE inside the mount, *no doubt* about it. I heard the parts hitting the side of the mount encasing. I was doing all of this under meticoulous inspection. Even after doing a quick align (while the scope was still slewing erratically, I managed to go to utilities and do a factory reset, then power cycled. Same thing. I tried direct AC connection, same thing. I did this for completeness, since as soon as I heard the loose parts clinking inside, all bets were off.

The loose parts inside the mount and the locking/grinding noises are *not* a power supply issue. The scope is truly damaged. But I trully appreciate the feedback, I am sure persistence like this has solved many problems before.

I have not heard from OPT yet, I guess I'll call tomorrow Monday.

CSs,

Roy

Post Extras:

Roy M.
super member

Reged: 01/31/06

Loc: Northern Virginia

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: AlienRatDog]
#2901919 - 02/01/09 02:59 PM

Quote:

Just send it back, I wouldn't even try to repair it, you paid so much money for it, it should be running perfectly as it is new, just send it in and get another...make the dealer pay the shipping if possible...

Alien, you crystallize my thoughts.

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: CHASLX200]
#2902174 - 02/01/09 05:17 PM

Quote:

They sure don't make mounts like they did in the 70's. All you did was plug in the RA drive and you were set.

Chas

Granted, goto mounts are more complicated with variable speed drives on both axes and a microncontroller, keyboard, and display, but that's really no excuse for the purely mechanical problems these mounts are having. I also understand having glitches in new designs, so I'm willing to cut them a little slack there (although I'm less understanding when I'm the one having to suffer because of it!). On the other hand, they've had plenty of time to address problems I see regularly reported related to cold temperature performance of the electronics, etc. I'd love to know if Celestron is fully aware of these problems and is trying/planning to address them or if they really don't know about them or worse yet don't care enough to fix them.

Beo

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: Get your CGEM aligned yet? new

[Re: Roy M.]
#2902194 - 02/01/09 05:25 PM

The grinding sounds you're describing sound much like mine did with its failed RA axis out of the box. I sent it back! Telescopes.com was great about the return and paid return shipping, etc.

Beo

Post Extras:

bseltzer
professor emeritus

Reged: 10/28/07

Loc: East S.F.Bay, CA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: CHASLX200]
#2902762 - 02/01/09 11:14 PM

Quote:

They sure don't make mounts like they did in the 70's. All you did was plug in the RA drive and you were set.

Chas

Yeah, except for the repeated trips to your health care provider as a result of lugging one of those '70's behemoths around the country side.

Been there, done that, got the "T" shirt... And I ain't goin' back ;->

Regards,
Bert

Post Extras:

BRisley
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 09/04/06

Loc: SW Florida

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: bseltzer]
#2903712 - 02/02/09 02:00 PM

Bert,
Back, who cares about their back? I had the counterweight from a 12.5" F6 Trekkerscope fall out of my van onto my foot back in the mid 80's! Luckily it was very loose sandy soil, or I would have broken it good for sure, and doing that in the middle of the everglades would not have been fun!
I used to travel regularly with the Trekkerscope mount and another GEM for a 12" f4 in my van and the only things taken off the mount were the scope and CW's. I used to manhandle those puppies myself. (My dad was a chiropractor, so I could always get an adjustment!

)
Wouldn't dream of that today, now my OT C-8 on a tripod or my SPC-8 are enough just to move out of the garage to observe! Boy, age sure deals you bad cards!
Brian

Post Extras:

bseltzer
professor emeritus

Reged: 10/28/07

Loc: East S.F.Bay, CA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: BRisley]
#2904100 - 02/02/09 05:01 PM

Quote:

Bert,
Back, who cares about their back? I had the counterweight from a 12.5" F6 Trekkerscope fall out of my van onto my foot back in the mid 80's! Luckily it was very loose sandy soil, or I would have broken it good for sure, and doing that in the middle of the everglades would not have been fun!
I used to travel regularly with the Trekkerscope mount and another GEM for a 12" f4 in my van and the only things taken off the mount were the scope and CW's. I used to manhandle those puppies myself. (My dad was a chiropractor, so I could always get an adjustment! )
Wouldn't dream of that today, now my OT C-8 on a tripod or my SPC-8 are enough just to move out of the garage to observe! Boy, age sure deals you bad cards!
Brian

Somebody once said, "Age is the price you pay for maturity".

I say it's a much over-rated and obscenely over priced product.

- Bert

Post Extras:

BRisley
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 09/04/06

Loc: SW Florida

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: bseltzer]
#2904498 - 02/02/09 07:59 PM

I agree!

Post Extras:

7331Peg
Sirius Observer

Reged: 09/01/08

Loc: North coast of Oregon

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: rmollise]
#2905066 - 02/03/09 03:37 AM

There's really no excuse for this kind of poor quality control in my opinion. When you pay $1300 plus dollars for a product that you can't see, touch or personally check out in advance, it seems to me there is an obligation on the part of the manufacturer to make sure it works. It doesn't take that much effort to test each product before it goes out the door. Meanwhile, the purchaser who waits for the product to arrive now has to ship it back and wait again.
Unfortunately, these days the companies with the worst quality control are frequently the largest. The small companies can't afford to lose customers due to this kind of thing, and most of them seem to care a whole more about their customer than the larger ones do.

Post Extras:

Roy M.
super member

Reged: 01/31/06

Loc: Northern Virginia

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: 7331Peg]
#2913202 - 02/07/09 10:59 AM

I called Celestron and they were very responsive. They emailed me the shipping label so return is not costing a cent. They are sending a replacement. While I was the one that got the dud in the first production run, all I have heard from this mount are *GREAT* things. Remember this is a 1.4K mount for 40lb.

We have clear skies, no mount,

Roy

Post Extras:

Dave H.
sage

Reged: 02/29/08

Loc: Northern Virginia

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: AlienRatDog]
#2913388 - 02/07/09 12:54 PM

Sorry to hear of your issues with the new mount, I would have been angry if my new CGEM showed up acting like that. Hope you can get it resolved quickly. I guess I was one of the lucky ones, my CGEM has acted as expected, SO FAR ANYWAY...

Post Extras:

jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: 7331Peg]
#2913392 - 02/07/09 12:56 PM

"There's really no excuse for this kind of poor quality control in my opinion."

Sure there is. It's only a $1300 mount. A premium mount with similar features like the Mach 1 GTO would set you back about $6k. You want QC, you pay for it. Pretty simple. The CGEM sounds absolutely typical of early production runs of a new affordable mount. The Atlas EQ-G had plenty of problems on launch as did the Losmandy Gemini mounts. Were Celestron (or Synta or Losmandy) to invest in additional QC, the sticker price for that QC would hit your pocket-book. Heck, I've read about several dud Takahashi mounts and those are in the price range where I'd expect a little TLC.

Anyone who is an early adopter of anything assumes the risk that there will be glitches that will be worked out by later runs.

I have high hopes for the CGEM - an Atlas refresh with better firmware for $100 less. I am not, however, planning on moving from my Atlas to a CGEM for at least 6 months.

You'll notice that those "small companies" are selling the premium mounts. Part of the premium price is the extra labor they apply, including in the QC department. Do not buy a Chevy and expect a Bentley.

On the other hand, when you buy gear that's marketed and priced like a Bentley, but end up with a Chevy, that's when you've got a real problem. I've had a couple of these experiences and they are NOT pleasant.

Regards,

Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (02/07/09 12:59 PM)

Post Extras:

bseltzer
professor emeritus

Reged: 10/28/07

Loc: East S.F.Bay, CA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#2913729 - 02/07/09 04:09 PM

I hear the terms "QC", quality assurance, and the like thrown around a lot, but I wonder how many people realize what they really mean. Having been in charge of QC/QA for a medical blood gas laboratory for more years than I care to remember, I can tell you with some authority that these terms are purely statistical, and as such all they represent is a mathematical abstraction that gives you an idea of how likely it is that any given product is going to meet specific criteria.

Nobody's QC is 100%. Nobody - period.

Sure, more expensive products are (hopefully) held to tighter specifications and the acceptable probability factor is also (probably) set higher. Let's also not forget that companies like AP or MI or Parallax don't crank out thousands of mounts a year. So part of their higher price has more to do with the fact that they don't have the economies of scale that someone like Synta does than it does with QC efforts. The flip side of that is it's a whole lot easier to closely inspect each and every example of your product when you're only making a couple hundred of them a year.

But the bottom line is, there isn't a vendor out there that hasn't had at least one dud go out the door. Now all the statistics are pretty meaningless to the person who gets that one turkey, but the real measure of a vendor is how they deal with it when it (inevitably) happens.

Sounds like Celestron is reacting responsibly to this incident, so I'd be inclined to cut them some slack based on what I've heard here.

At least that's my story, and I'm sticking with it

Regards,
Bert

Edited by bseltzer (02/07/09 04:14 PM)

Post Extras:

skyler
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/16/06

Loc: TGPNW

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: bseltzer]
#2913971 - 02/07/09 06:54 PM

The other big factor is what happens when an A1 QA'd product gets shipped out the door and goes through the riggers of FEDEX, UPS, and USPS. I have had equipment like a C11 destroyed or just recently an Mak Newt severely damaged in transit. The amount of rough handling impact energy imparted on hardware in shipment could easily result in the non-function or crippled condition when it arrives or even shortly after during use.

S

Post Extras:

7331Peg
Sirius Observer

Reged: 09/01/08

Loc: North coast of Oregon

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#2914652 - 02/08/09 03:07 AM

I agree the CGEM can't be compared to an AstroPhysics mount, but $1300 is still a lot of money to spend for a product that has to go back to the shipper because it doesn't work properly. Considering the problems that existed with the first CGE mounts, and they are NOT cheap, you would think the CGEM would have been checked out more thoroughly to avoid a repetition of problems. If nothing else, there are certainly plenty of willing volunteers to beta test products like these in order to eliminate the problems. Meanwhile, potential purchasers are standing on the sidelines until they're sure the bugs have been worked out. That really isn't good for Celestron, either.
However, glad to hear that Celestron is dealing with the issue.

Post Extras:

EddWen
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 04/26/08

Loc: Here or There

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: 7331Peg]
#2915018 - 02/08/09 11:02 AM

"Nobody's QC is 100%. Nobody - period."

I was a partner in a company that makes life-support medical products. We did 100% inspection of the product with various inspectors checking all levels of function and performance. Every device made could only go out the door when signed and cosigned by responsible people. The result, very good Quality Control. Did every device work correctly when it reached the end-user - No.

Post Extras:

Project Galileo
professor emeritus

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: EddWen]
#2915040 - 02/08/09 11:14 AM

It seems to me the silver lining is getting to know your mount a bit better. I have found the scopes or mounts I remember, and love the most, are the ones I wrestled a bit with to get them to really perform. Looks like this wrestle will be a memory soon. Good luck with your CGEM.

Post Extras:

Project Galileo
professor emeritus

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: EddWen]
#2915041 - 02/08/09 11:14 AM

Post Extras:

jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: 7331Peg]
#2915056 - 02/08/09 11:20 AM

Well, actually, even the CGE, compared to alternatives based on common specification, is pretty cheap. It's premium, QA'd peers are the A-P 900 and the Takahashi NJP/EM-400 mounts. These are much more expensive than the CGE (2x to 3x more). Remember the CGE is a 70# cap class mount. It's affordable buddy, the Losmandy G-11, often isn't perfect when it ships either, and in those cases you generally work on the Losmandy yourself. At least with the CGEM and CGE you can simply send it back and get a new one because Celestron is a volume producer.

Also beta testing and QC are two totally different things. My understanding is that this mount was widely beta tested. You make it sound as if no functional CGEM has shipped at all. This is simply not the case. There are good ones and sloppy ones. It also doesn't sound like there's one particular issue, but many different issues.

Beta testing will tell you if you have major design flaws, not whether when you ramp up volume production you'll have assembly glitches and similar production issues. It generally takes an auto maker 6 to 12 months to implement QC changes in a given car model. Cars are a heck of a lot more expensive than mounts, even cheap cars. Why would anyone expect an affordable mount maker to better much larger manufacturers of much more costly goods in terms of QC improvements?

Don't buy a first model year car and don't buy the first run of a new mount if you're worried about quality issues. Let others more willing to hassle with returns do the guinea pig testing for you.

Regards,

Jim

Post Extras:

rmollise
Postmaster

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: EddWen]
#2915387 - 02/08/09 01:44 PM

Quote:

"Nobody's QC is 100%. Nobody - period."

I was a partner in a company that makes life-support medical products. We did 100% inspection of the product with various inspectors checking all levels of function and performance. Every device made could only go out the door when signed and cosigned by responsible people. The result, very good Quality Control. Did every device work correctly when it reached the end-user - No.

I'm sure QA was 100% at Pantex, too.

Yep...for much else, 100% is not cost effective and unless there are real problems with the manufacturing process, doesn't really improve the results that much.

Post Extras:

WadeH237
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: 7331Peg]
#2916576 - 02/08/09 11:18 PM

Quote:

...$1300 is still a lot of money to spend for a product that has to go back to the shipper because it doesn't work properly.

I don't think that this statement is absolutely true.

For example, if I paid $1300 for a wrist watch, I would have a high expectation of quality. If, on the other hand, I paid $1300 for a car, I would positively expect to encounter problems.

As has been noted here, the CGEM is a value mount and is very low cost for its capability. In my opinion, its sibling the Atlas was a breakthrough at this price point.

If you want to buy a higher quality mount with a similar capacity, Takahasi and Astro-Physics would be happy to help you.

-Wade

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: WadeH237]
#2918691 - 02/09/09 10:44 PM

Guys,

To say that just because a mount is lower cost you shouldn't expect it to work doesn't make much sense. To use the automobile analogy, whether I'm buying a Pinto or a Cadillac, as a consumer I have an expectation of receiving a working product. The relative features and long term quality of different products has nothing to do with that expectation. Even if the lower end vehicle may be expected to squeak and rattle and start falling apart quickly, that's significantly different from not being able to drive it off the lot! And yes, on something as complicated as an automobile, one should not expect to have a totally perfect new vehicle, no matter the manufacturer or model of vehicle. That ranges from assembly issues through delivery issues. While there are some similarities, a mount is MUCH simpler than an automobile, so the likelihood of failure SHOULD be considerably less than that of an automobile. There are far fewer parts and far less complication. At the same time, the manufacturing process and QA procedures probably far less advanced than that for a typical automotive manufacturers. And while again it shouldn't be surprising that a new design would have bugs to be worked out, saying that anyone shouldn't EXPECT to receive a working product just because they didn't pay "enough" for it is pretty silly. That's like saying that a manufacturer is selling a product where they're telling themselves, "We're selling this so cheaply, no one will care if it works or not!" That's just utter nonsense.

At any rate, those, like myself, who were willing to give the CGEM a try and received a defective unit are perfectly justified in being disappointed. However, in my case I'm much more disappinted in my overall experience with Celestron (three bad SkyScouts, bad CGEM, and a bad solar filter, and very little concern shown by their customer service). Luckily the dealer I've used has a better attitude towards customer service. I can only hope they'll take steps to turn that around.

Beo

Post Extras:

7331Peg
Sirius Observer

Reged: 09/01/08

Loc: North coast of Oregon

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2918906 - 02/10/09 01:47 AM

I totally agree with the Beowulf comments. Regardless of where you fall on the affordability scale, when you spend hard-earned money for something, wait for it to become available and/or wait for its arrival at your door, you don't expect to open the box and find the product doesn't work. As an example, read the many posts on the problems with the alt-az mount Orion is selling - it sells for a lot less that the CGEM, but that doesn't justify continuing to ship it with serious problems. Orion is not doing itself a favor by continuing to offer it.
My comments aren't aimed directly at Celestron or Orion, but are a result of having been frustrated too many times with a product that doesn't perform at all or poorly right out of the box.
I'm amazed sometimes at what people are willing to tolerate.

Post Extras:

WadeH237
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2918909 - 02/10/09 01:59 AM

Beo,

In case it's not clear from my comments, I complete agree that you should get a working product, regardless of price. And actually, I cannot think of any scenario in which you'd end up out the cost of the mount without a working product. Either it will be made right, or you'll get your money back.

I'm also not saying that that you are unjustified in being disappointed and frustrated. I know that I would be. It sucks to find out that something is defective out of the box, no matter what it is or how much you paid.

I am saying that after being in this hobby for a few years, I've learned patience. I do most of my astronomy during week long events out in the wilderness, hundreds of miles from home. I generally look to buy my astronomy gear 3 or 4 months before I'm going to take it out in the field. I've found this time to be absolutely necessary to be able to deal with delays in delivery, time to test and tune the equipment, and to learn how to get it to perform to its specifications.

It's easy to make car analogies, but it's not quite the same thing. Cars are a mass market consumer item. The auto manufacturers produce *far* more units and have a much more refined process than any telescope mount manufacturer. A low volume model of car will probably sell many more units in a single year than Celestron will sell CGEMs during the entire life of the product - possibly by orders of magnitude.

Yet even with cars, there is some conventional wisdom: A first year car is generally expected to have more problems than one that's been in production for several years. And a higher end car is generally expected to have fewer problems than an economy car (think Lexus LS versus Dodge Neon.)

If you set your expectations that telescopes and mounts are scientific instruments from small companies, and not consumer goods from huge companies, you may find that you are more satisfied in the long run.

Just my two cents,
-Wade

Post Extras:

PhilCo126
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: WadeH237]
#2963381 - 03/04/09 02:08 PM

So basically You guys are saying rather go to a CGE than a CGEM?

Post Extras:

Dave H.
sage

Reged: 02/29/08

Loc: Northern Virginia

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: PhilCo126]
#2963428 - 03/04/09 02:32 PM

Quote:

So basically You guys are saying rather go to a CGE than a CGEM?

I don't think the CGEM failure rate supports that statement at all, and I can't substantiate selecting a CGE over a CGEM simply based on the number of CGEM problems.

For that matter, I just sold a perfect CGE, and am keeping my CGEM.

There are many happy CGEM owners out there like myself, and from the comments on this board, it seesm there are certainly more happy CGEM owners than those that have had issues with their CGEM mounts. Certainly if I was one with problems in my new CGEM mount I would also be unhappy, and those that have experienced problems have every right to be unhappy. But that does not mean the CGEM mount is not a good mount, in fact IMHO it is great mount for the price. I have had issues with other Celestron gear in the past and while it was a PIA and I was unhappy with the hassle of returning the gear to Celestron, they did take care of the problems and return the gear to me. I have no reason to doubt that they will also take care of the problems experienced on some CGEM mounts, but if one concludes they should buy a CGE, that is certainly your choice.

Post Extras:

PhilCo126
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Dave H.]
#2963501 - 03/04/09 03:06 PM

That makes perfectly sense Dave... looks like I might order a CGEM as it can carry 20 kilograms

Post Extras:

Blixx
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/02/07

Loc: CO. Aurora, USA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: PhilCo126]
#2963610 - 03/04/09 04:14 PM

I hope that this is not to far off topic, but can any one who owns a cgem tell me what polar finder scope goes with this mount. I can't seem to find any documentation as to which polar scope I would need to buy if I get this mount?
Thanks,
Dan

Post Extras:

Dave H.
sage

Reged: 02/29/08

Loc: Northern Virginia

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Blixx]
#2963657 - 03/04/09 04:42 PM

Hi Dan,

I hope the OP does not see this as too far off topic, but let me reply.

Celestron has announced they are redesigning the CGE Polar Scope to work with both the CGEM and the CGE. However with the CGEM and the new version 4.17 hand control upgrade for the CGE, there really should be little need for a polar scope as these products include the new Celestron All Star Polar Alignment (ASPA) routine.

There are a number of posts regarding the ASPA here on CN, and the shared opinion is that it works like a charm!

I and others have described this ASPA in more detail in previous posts, and you may wish to review some of those prior posts if interested. If you consider for a moment that with ASPA your polar alignment can be made on a star potentially on the opposite side of the horizon from the North Celestial Pole, you can imagine the increased degree of accuracy versus aligning on Polaris which is only 1 degree from the celestial pole.

Please review the link below that describes the ASPA, and there are other posts here on CN that also address this topic.

http://www.celestron.com/c3/page.php?PageID=370

Post Extras:

mclewis1
Thread Killer

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Dave H.]
#2963842 - 03/04/09 06:08 PM

Quote:

However with the CGEM and the new version 4.17 hand control upgrade for the CGE, there really should be little need for a polar scope as these products include the new Celestron All Star Polar Alignment (ASPA) routine.

Uh Dave ... I think you mean version 4.15, right?

Post Extras:

Dave H.
sage

Reged: 02/29/08

Loc: Northern Virginia

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: mclewis1]
#2963928 - 03/04/09 06:50 PM

I guess I really must learn to type one day...

Yeah, sorry, the new version software is the 4.15 like mclewis1 stated above. Thanks for the correction MC and sorry for any confusion...

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Dave H.]
#2964085 - 03/04/09 08:17 PM

Quote:

There are many happy CGEM owners out there like myself, and from the comments on this board, it seesm there are certainly more happy CGEM owners than those that have had issues with their CGEM mounts.

While I would agree (or at least certainly hope) that there are more happy CGEM owners than those of us who've had problems, I'm not sure just how many more. My impression is that there haven't been that many CGEMs shipped yet. I'd welcome comments from our Astronomics friends or any other vendors on here as to how many they've seen/shipped, but I'd guess that no more than 50 sounds about right, and that 100 would be very surprising. At that volume, the at least five failures that I'm aware of is still a pretty high failure rate. I certainly HOPE Celestron will rectify the situation, but my faith is waning!

Beo

Post Extras:

bseltzer
professor emeritus

Reged: 10/28/07

Loc: East S.F.Bay, CA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: rmollise]
#2964227 - 03/04/09 09:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

"Nobody's QC is 100%. Nobody - period."

I was a partner in a company that makes life-support medical products. We did 100% inspection of the product with various inspectors checking all levels of function and performance. Every device made could only go out the door when signed and cosigned by responsible people. The result, very good Quality Control. Did every device work correctly when it reached the end-user - No.

I'm sure QA was 100% at Pantex, too.

Yep...for much else, 100% is not cost effective and unless there are real problems with the manufacturing process, doesn't really improve the results that much.

The last question in the quote above and it's answer make my point for me. There is nobody anywhere who has ever made more than 2 of anything and had them come out 100% identical. It doesn't matter how many people check how many parameters how many times, the simple fact is even the instruments used to take the measurements have some inescapable random error built into them. QC is, plain and simple, all about shades of gray.

The part I want to emphasize is that it's how a vendor responds to the inevitable out-of-spec sample that determines whether or not they're worth doing business with on an ongoing basis. That, and of course, just how "loose" their spec's are in comparison to other similar products at a similar price point.

Regards,
Bert

Post Extras:

LLEEGE
True Blue

Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: bseltzer]
#2964253 - 03/04/09 09:38 PM

No problems with mine yet. (fingers crossed)

Post Extras:

tboss70
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 11/25/05

Loc: Missouri

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: LLEEGE]
#2964269 - 03/04/09 09:48 PM

I was just getting ready to PM you Luke. I thought you purchased one.

Post Extras:

Dave H.
sage

Reged: 02/29/08

Loc: Northern Virginia

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: LLEEGE]
#2964294 - 03/04/09 10:00 PM

Beo,
I just noticed on the Sky Scout/My Sky forum that your Celestron Sky Scout is also broken and you have been waiting for an extended time for Celestron to repair that...

Dude, I'm sorry but you seem to have had a run of some bad luck

Hope things get better, and C takes care of all your problems quickly.

On a some what related note, I bought a new model 1911 .45 auto pistol on Jan 6 from a well respected gun dealer that has their gun smith check all their firearms. This particular brand/model of the venerable model 1911 is very highly regarded, and from all reports one of the best model 1911s available with thousands of positive referrals.

I fired (3) 50 round boxes of .45 ammo and cleaned it, then a few days later fired 2 more boxes of ammo. I never had a single misfire, not even a single problem. On the next box of ammo it jammed right off, then after clearing thew jam, it jammed again. Then after another clearing it jammed again and I took it right back to the gunsmith where I bought the gun. He inspected and dissasembled the gun but could not fix it and sent it back to the manufacturer. Nearly 2 months later I'm still waiting for my "new" pistol to be repaired and returned. This has been a total PIA and they say misery loves company, so I thought I would share my story as it sounds a little like your CGEM story in a way.

Best of luck getting your problems with your Celestron gear resolved. Keep looking up!

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Dave H.]
#2964366 - 03/04/09 10:39 PM

Thanks Dave,

Of course I'm reminded of the definition of insanity; doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. Thus, I'm beginning to question the sanity of continuing to deal with Celestron. I guess I'm just stubborn and expect them to make things right!

Beo

Post Extras:

Mike Harvey
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 03/01/04

Loc: Orlando, FL.

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2964473 - 03/04/09 11:33 PM

Fortunately, my CGEM works beautifully...for the price - I think it's a steal!
Something better would cost two or three times as much.
Anyone considering this mount should just be realistic about its' capabilities. It's NOT an AP 1200!!!

When I took delivery and realized it didn't have a polar scope, I was a bit dismayed, but soon realized that the All-Star alignment has made such a device obsolete!
Using the new system I've found the CGEM tracks beautifully (at least for my needs).

With a 10" SNT and Mallincam, 56-second iterations show NO TRAILING AT ALL. Stars remain pinpoint.
Whether this translates into accuracy good enough for truly long-exposure imaging, I don't know. But, if that's what I was planning to do, I'd have bought a different mount anyway.

Post Extras:

Blixx
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/02/07

Loc: CO. Aurora, USA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Mike Harvey]
#2964544 - 03/05/09 12:16 AM

Mike,
I just placed an order for a cgem. I was wondering if the dovetail bars that I have for my c80ed and svp100 will work. I thought that I read somewhere that it has a different setup. I have the standard dovetails that fit on my cg5 mount. Can you or anyone else answer this question?
Dan

Post Extras:

LLEEGE
True Blue

Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Blixx]
#2964633 - 03/05/09 01:22 AM

No. You will need D series plates.

Post Extras:

7331Peg
Sirius Observer

Reged: 09/01/08

Loc: North coast of Oregon

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2964689 - 03/05/09 02:30 AM

Quote:

Of course I'm reminded of the definition of insanity; doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. Thus, I'm beginning to question the sanity of continuing to deal with Celestron. I guess I'm just stubborn and expect them to make things right!

Back in the days when "Quality" was a corporate buzz word, the company I worked for hired a QC guru. His favorite phrase was, "If it ain't workin', don't keep doin' it harder!"
Great advice, but six months after he was hired, he was escorted off the property by security. And that was the end of the QC program.

Post Extras:

waassaabee
Post Laureate

Reged: 11/26/07

Loc: Central California Coast

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2964908 - 03/05/09 08:27 AM

Quote:

Of course I'm reminded of the definition of insanity; doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. Thus, I'm beginning to question the sanity of continuing to deal with Celestron. I guess I'm just stubborn and expect them to make things right!

Beo

It's a crazy quandary isn't it?! Before the CGEM was shipping I had told a friend of mine I was going to get on the list for one. He is a die hard CGE owner and told me how the first CGE's were some of the best, and folks searched them out, but there had been a handful of bad apples in the first barrel too. Well while I was deciding my CG5 must have heard and went through a period of optimal performance, soothing the itch quite a bit. Then they released the CGEM and almost as expected I started hearing of a few bad units going out, but I was happy with the CG5... Then ole Trusty (CG5) started acting up, and finally two weeks ago I could no longer use it and shipped it off to Celestron. Now the Customer Service horror stories are surfacing, and how long I'll potentially be out of a mount is starting to sink in so what do I do.... start drooling over a CGEM again.
I think insanity is inherent with this hobby.

Post Extras:

Dave H.
sage

Reged: 02/29/08

Loc: Northern Virginia

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Blixx]
#2965033 - 03/05/09 09:47 AM Attachment (80 downloads)

Mike,
As previously posted above the dovetails on the OTAs you have will not work on the CGEM. While the optimum solution is certainly to go to Losmandy style dovetails for your OTAs, for these fairly light tubes another solution might be an adapter like the one made by ScopeStuff.

Here is a photo of the ScopeStuff adapter I use on my CGEM, I have found it very adequate for my SW120ED.

Post Extras:

Blixx
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/02/07

Loc: CO. Aurora, USA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Dave H.]
#2965161 - 03/05/09 10:49 AM

Well that's a bummer. There's another 100 bucks that I have to spend. I guess though that it is woth it.
Dan

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Blixx]
#2966309 - 03/05/09 08:07 PM

Quote:

Well that's a bummer. There's another 100 bucks that I have to spend. I guess though that it is woth it.
Dan

You might wait on ADM's dual saddle replacement. A bit more cost, but pretty versatile. I actually went a different route and bought an ADM side-by-side setup with the dual saddles on a Losmandy style rail. Now if I can just get my CGEM to use it one of these days!

Beo

Post Extras:

Blixx
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/02/07

Loc: CO. Aurora, USA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2966445 - 03/05/09 09:36 PM

So heres another question. If I get the SBS with the Losmandy rail can I use 1 scope for visual as well? Also does this duel saddle accept standard dovetails. That's what I have on my two scopes now. I mainly use them for AP but every now and then I like to just look rather that photograph.
Dan

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Blixx]
#2966692 - 03/06/09 12:02 AM Attachment (108 downloads)

Dan,

Here's a pic of my ADM SBS mounted on the original CGEM that I'd ordered. It's pretty massive, but looks good. You can see the dual dovetail clamp design. I plan to use this for both guiding and visual use. However, you're not likely to do visual and photos at the same time unless you're doing short unguided exposures.

Beo

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2966697 - 03/06/09 12:04 AM Attachment (109 downloads)

And here's both of my OTAs mounted up. Forgive the choppy cutout. Bad background and quick job of it.

Beo

Post Extras:

Blixx
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/02/07

Loc: CO. Aurora, USA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2966712 - 03/06/09 12:09 AM

Beo,
How much did it cost you. I am afraid that I don't have a lot of money to spend? I blow most of my money on the mount. And where did you get it?
Dan

Post Extras:

Lord Beowulf
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/13/08

Loc: Cedar Park, TX

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Blixx]
#2966731 - 03/06/09 12:22 AM

Anthony at ADM set me up. It's basically an LSBS with the DUAL-SAD-LOS instead of the LOS-SAD. I think it was like $240 with shipping, but that could have changed.

Beo

Post Extras:

PhilCo126
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Lord Beowulf]
#2971292 - 03/08/09 10:55 AM

Just wanted to add I'll go for a CGEM mount as I had a lot of problems with an EQ-6 dual motor photo-mount which basically worked once and gave up...

Post Extras:

Trever
Post Laureate

Reged: 08/18/03

Loc: North Alabama

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: PhilCo126]
#3004167 - 03/25/09 02:03 PM

So far I have not had the chance to really test my CGEM mount. The OTA has some image shift in the focuser. I have spent a week cycling the mirror back and forth to lubricate it better and I ordered a crayford focuser to solve that issue.

The one thing I did notice is when I first powered up the scope, it seemed to be set incorrectly. Any star I attempted to list gave me a filter error and there were no solar system objects to find in the list. When I did a quick align and had it find M13, it would point straight down and attempt to find it even though it technically was beyond its extents. After doing a factory reset, it seems to be fine after that. But there was no way to know for sure if it is working perfectly. I had it outside that night and aligned it to the best that I could on a 2 star alignment, but that wasnt enough since nothing was in the field of view. I didnt get the chance to do the polar alignment through the HC yet.

So, I will try to give it a more complete test before my 30 days are up at OPT on April 13th. It has mostly been cloudy since I recieved it.

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ssouza
member

Reged: 07/13/07

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Dave H.]
#3004243 - 03/25/09 02:50 PM Attachment (55 downloads)

Quote:

Mike,
As previously posted above the dovetails on the OTAs you have will not work on the CGEM. While the optimum solution is certainly to go to Losmandy style dovetails for your OTAs, for these fairly light tubes another solution might be an adapter like the one made by ScopeStuff.

Here is a photo of the ScopeStuff adapter I use on my CGEM, I have found it very adequate for my SW120ED.

Note that the reasonably-priced Scopestuff Losmandy/Vixen adapter can be turned into a side-by-side for small scopes using only an Allen wrench by rotating the in-line saddles 90 degrees in opposite directions, keeping the knobs to the outside. It's solid as a rock, and doesn't add as much mass as some other options. See the photo.

BTW, I love the CGEM. It replaced an HGM200 on a permanent pier, and although the load capacity is lower, the sanity factor is much higher.

Steve Souza

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Tim C
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 11/11/07

Loc: Marietta, GA

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Trever]
#3004400 - 03/25/09 04:37 PM

Trever,

My unit fails to put objects in the FOV when using just a two star align as well even with good polar alignment. However, when I add 2 or 3 calibration stars the gotos are fantastic. For imaging, I always do 2 star align plus 3 calibration stars and also high precision go to and it puts the object in the dead center of the chip every single time. You wouldn't need to use high precision for visual. Also, when aligning your alignment and calibration stars, make the final adjustments to center the star using the up and right arrow keys.

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rmollise
Postmaster

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: Trever]
#3005362 - 03/26/09 08:40 AM

Quote:

The one thing I did notice is when I first powered up the scope, it seemed to be set incorrectly. Any star I attempted to list gave me a filter error and there were no solar system objects to find in the list. When I did a quick align and had it find M13, it would point straight down and attempt to find it even though it technically was beyond its extents. After doing a factory reset, it seems to be fine after that. But there was no way to know for sure if it is working perfectly. I had it outside that night and aligned it to the best that I could on a 2 star alignment, but that wasnt enough since nothing was in the field of view. I didnt get the chance to do the polar alignment through the HC yet.

This is likely improper settings in the HC. Triple check latitude/longitude _and their signs_, time-zone (a new HC defaults to PST), time, and date.

As for focus shift, all Meade and Celestron SCTs exhibt some. Unless the shift is large, it really won't hurt anything. "Large" these days bein' over 45"...

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Trever
Post Laureate

Reged: 08/18/03

Loc: North Alabama

Re: My CGEM is bust ;( new

[Re: rmollise]
#3059267 - 04/22/09 10:47 AM

I verified most of that but I did see where I had made some mistakes. If we can ever have a week without rain or Tornadoes, then I can give it a try.

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