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Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User
mischief
super member
Reged: 04/26/08
Loc: Northern California
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Re: A question about GO-TO mounts
[Re: rmollise]
#2943759 - 02/22/09 09:12 PM
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To Steve Fisher: I love your quote, "Never try to teach a pig to sing, It wastes your time and it annoys the pig". (Robert Heinlein)
Dorothy 
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Steve Fisher
Reged: 08/12/06
Loc: Utah
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Re: A question about GO-TO mounts
[Re: mischief]
#2943810 - 02/22/09 09:43 PM
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Dorthy:
Thank you! I cannot tell you how many times in my adult life I have been frustrated beyond words and when just about to blow I have had this quote run through my mind.
Raising kids, raising grandkids, working with the public or any one of a thousand other times. Sometimes you just have to realize you are wasting your time arguing.
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chitown
super member
Reged: 01/26/09
Loc: Plainfield, IL
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Re: A question about GO-TO mounts
[Re: rmollise]
#2944375 - 02/23/09 08:53 AM
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A wealth of information, thank you good friends.
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ragebot
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/26/05
Loc: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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Re: A question about GO-TO mounts
[Re: chitown]
#2944457 - 02/23/09 09:48 AM
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Quote:
A wealth of information, thank you good friends.
On re-reading your original question it just dawned on me that while some posters answers were directed to how you would use a GOTO GEM you did not specify if you were getting, or considering, getting a GOTO GEM or a GOTO AA.
I have both a GOTO GEM and a GOTO AA and the process I use to set them up before observing is significantly different.
A GEM mount is defined as a German Equatorial Mount while an AA mount is defined as an Alt-Azimuth mount. Without getting into too much detail both mount types have advantages and disadvantages.
I would point out that AA GOTO mounts far out number GOTO GEM mounts and are often marketed towards folks who want the easy solution to a GOTO mount; examples would include the Meade ETX mounts, the Celestron NextStar mounts, and a whole lot more.
While you did not say so in your original question, I inferred the reason you are moving your rig from the front to the back yard is because you have a different view of the sky in both places, e.g. a North sky view from one and a South sky view from the other.
This is a very common issue, and one an AA mount is usually much easier to deal with than a GEM mount.
Most GEM mounts have a polar scope which is used to polar align it, and it goes with out saying you need a good view of the North Star to do this. Many AA mounts only need to be roughly pointed north, and in some cases the directions in the manual are to point it South, which means you dont really need a good view of the North Star.
While both GEM and AA mounts do need some type of polar alignment my experience has been it is much less critical with an AA mount than a GEM mount. By the same token AA mounts seem to stress in the manual the importance of "sync to target" type commands to correct errors in polar alignment. In fact many AA mounts are quite able to track after a rough "point it North or South" when you set it up, "slew to target" and "sync" to target. While the same thing can be done on many GEM GOTO mounts the GEMs seem to assume a better polar alignment than the AA mounts do.
I would also point out that while there is not complete agreement if you ask a question about a specific mount say ETX GOTO mounts or Losmandy Titan GOTO you may get a more specific answer to what you need to do after moving the mount.
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chitown
super member
Reged: 01/26/09
Loc: Plainfield, IL
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Re: A question about GO-TO mounts
[Re: rmollise]
#2946342 - 02/24/09 08:30 AM
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Thank you guys, excellent responses. Park feature is something to look at.
Can you tell me, if I have the optional GPS module installed on the mount, would alingment procedure any easier?
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JadeSmith
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/15/08
Loc: SE Michigan
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Re: A question about GO-TO mounts
[Re: chitown]
#2950663 - 02/26/09 10:43 AM
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The GPS feature simply enters the date, time and location for you...it does not align the scope for you. One other thing that hasn't been mentioned (or I missed it) is leveling your tripod. In addition to doing a star align, you have to make sure your tripod is as close to level as possible. This step usually takes me as long as the star align... So I usually only take out my go-to mount when I'm doing AP. For visual only, my WO EzTouch gets more action. No aligning, no leveling... plus I think it's more fun to find targets the old fashioned way....
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chitown
super member
Reged: 01/26/09
Loc: Plainfield, IL
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Re: A question about GO-TO mounts
[Re: JadeSmith]
#2951101 - 02/26/09 02:28 PM
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JadeSmith: Totally agree. No substitute for finding stuff yourself the old way. Just that it sometimes becomes really annoying sitting out in cold aimlessly moving my dob across the sky!
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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
Reged: 02/28/06
Loc: Petaluma, CA
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Re: A question about GO-TO mounts
[Re: chitown]
#2951984 - 02/26/09 10:26 PM
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I spent a decade star hopping. That was ten years too long in my opinion. As soon as I had manual setting circles, I learned to use them.
Sure I *could* walk or ride a horse from San Francisco to New York City, but why would I do so if I could save time and increase comfort by driving or flying? I also buy my eggs at the supermarket rather than raise my own chickens and I light my house with electric lights rather than tallow candles.
I think GOTO represents progress. You spend more time observing and less time hunting when using GOTO. This is especially so if you are a suburban astronomer whose hops may be big ones due to inability to see dimmer stars in a finder.
GOTO mounts are incredibly easy to set up and use once you've done it a time or two. I can typically set up, level, balance and align within 10 to 12 minutes. So long as all you want is to have your target in the FOV of a medium power eyepiece, leveling isn't uber critical. I find the bubble level on most mounts is sufficient for this degree of accuracy. Likewise, for visual observing I think polar scopes are not needed. Centering Polaris in the polar bore hole (or even in the empty tube rings) is good enough to deliver the level of accuracy described above.
I see perhaps 50% more targets in a given period of time when I use GOTO rather than star hop. More if the targets are faint, challenging or part of congested areas. When GOTO was new, it was expensive. That was a reason to not bother with it. Now that decent GOTO mounts are affordable, I think you do yourself a disservice by not using the technology.
How many star hopping purists use only their naked eyes? Ramsden or Hyugenian eyepieces? Long focus achromats exclusively? Apologizing for using GOTO is like apologizing for wearing Levis rather than bear skins in my book.
Regards,
Jim
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Arizona-Ken
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/31/08
Loc: Scottsdale, Arizona
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Re: A question about GO-TO mounts
[Re: jrbarnett]
#2952154 - 02/27/09 12:21 AM
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Quote:
.... I think GOTO represents progress. You spend more time observing and less time hunting when using GOTO. This is especially so if you are a suburban astronomer whose hops may be big ones due to inability to see dimmer stars in a finder......
Jim
I couldn't agree more. Remounting my old C8 on a GOTO mount has revitalized the hobby for me.
No matter how you get there, looking up at those shiny sparkely things is what it is all about.
Arizona Ken
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CounterWeight
Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/08
Loc: Cloudyopolis, OR.
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Re: A question about GO-TO mounts
[Re: Arizona-Ken]
#2953793 - 02/27/09 08:28 PM
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Simple answer ?
You dont HAVE to do anything. You can power off disenguage the clutches and star hop to your hearts content - but it'd be a huge waste of money, and you may tire of playing the part of motors and electricity and clutches.
But if you want to use a goto mount as a goto mount you'll have to put up with some form of alignment - but heck you had to do that with clock drives too... I think Meade and Celestron can't make many more types of align available... solar system, one star, two star, yada yada... or make them much easier... it's a cakewalk and the simplest can be done in a few minutes. It's not like it's really difficult to do. I've never had a night viewing ruined by needing an alignment.
If you go the GPS route - depending on just how far that front yard to back yard trip is... it'll compensate and give you exactness in time/space that is crazy. And you never have to worry about time / space as long as those satellites are up. 
On a sepirate tack - I think with goto you'll get more familiar with the heavens much faster, especially as your sky and telescope will greatly limit what you can actually see~ and you'll probably want to see those things you can over and over... of course this familiarity will breed contempt for smaller apeture and lp'd skies... and those marketers ad's that show they veil larger than a bread loaf in 8" inexpensive SCT's... etc...
I know there's a certain astronomer macho or cache' attached to star hopping that I do not share or care for, as one that's been there and done that, I appreciate "goto" as I do many modern things like the web, computers, af 35mm cameras, maps, clocks, watches, recorded music... teleporters, mag-lev's, planoformers and chronoplasts, etc. etc..
[EDIT - and yes, park=hybernate in the Celestron world and you'll ned to keep power attached though not turned on in the mounts I've used...]
Edited by CounterWeight (02/27/09 08:35 PM)
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chitown
super member
Reged: 01/26/09
Loc: Plainfield, IL
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Re: A question about GO-TO mounts
[Re: CounterWeight]
#2954045 - 02/27/09 11:02 PM
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Jim
Arizona Ken
CounterWeight
Thanks, couldnt agree more.
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