TheMenace
sage
   
Reged: 10/21/08
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ADM vs Losmandy
#2951562 - 02/26/09 06:41 PM
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I ordered a dual saddle plate a few weeks ago from ADM,arrived in a few days.
Ordered a losmandy dm10 setup last week from a dealer,dropped shipped from losmandy,and am still awaiting it's arrival.
The shipping was more expensive from ADM,but they provided me a tracking number almost immediately.
Maybe the dm10 is not a popular item?
Anyone else waiting for a shipment from losmandy?
blocks included with dm8
Edited by TheMenace (02/27/09 07:46 PM)
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celestial_search
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/18/04
Loc: Iowa, USA
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2951668 - 02/26/09 07:46 PM
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When I ordered my Losmandy dual saddle I made sure the dealer had it in stock. When I visited with one dealer that told me "we can get it from Losmandy" I replied "those guys seem to take their sweet time." He replied "yea they do."
I almost bought a G11 mount from them a few years ago, but the more research I did the more I learned that the wait is always longer than claimed.
Good luck.
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billetman
member
Reged: 11/04/08
Loc: So Cal
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: celestial_search]
#2951835 - 02/26/09 09:09 PM
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No ones perfect I have had issues with both of them. Quality Losmandy. Service ADM.
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TheMenace
sage
   
Reged: 10/21/08
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: billetman]
#2952296 - 02/27/09 04:16 AM
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The radius blocks do not line up correctly on my ota.
Edited by TheMenace (02/27/09 07:48 PM)
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Joe Bruessow
sage
   
Reged: 05/31/04
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2952355 - 02/27/09 06:09 AM
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I think when dealing with a manufacturer like Losmandy you need to be patient... They are not a mass producer like Celestron or Meade, but serve a niche between mass produced and very high end prices. Thier production schedule also seems similar... wait months, but not years to get your items.
They turn out a very good product for the money though... worth the wait if you can be patient enough (and often one dealer or another will have what you are looking for in stock).
Just a couple of thoughts... good luck.
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TheMenace
sage
   
Reged: 10/21/08
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Joe Bruessow]
#2952374 - 02/27/09 06:25 AM
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If they just mentioned the parts would be delayed,built,ordered etc,would be one thing. To list parts in stock,then send a notice,dropped shipped from manufacture,is not very good business practice. I have 2 ota's sitting here doing nothing,waiting on $100 dove tail bars.
I guess it's my own fault for not doing enough research.
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Eddy
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 09/30/04
Loc: Aix-en-Provence, France
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2952440 - 02/27/09 07:47 AM
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Hi,
I cannot tell you about Losmandy, but I can tell you that Anthony is doing everything possible to help you. If required, he custom drills holes in your plates/saddle etc...
On top of that, all his accessories are top quality.
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LLEEGE
True Blue
   
Reged: 03/03/05
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2952463 - 02/27/09 08:11 AM
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Quote:
If they just mentioned the parts would be delayed,built,ordered etc,would be one thing. To list parts in stock,then send a notice,dropped shipped from manufacture,is not very good business practice. I have 2 ota's sitting here doing nothing,waiting on $100 dove tail bars.
I guess it's my own fault for not doing enough research.
You can't fault Losmandy for how a dealer markets their product.
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TheMenace
sage
   
Reged: 10/21/08
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: LLEEGE]
#2952483 - 02/27/09 08:31 AM
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I'm guessing nobody stocks Losmandy parts.
The different sized radius blocks have me stumped.
Edited by TheMenace (02/27/09 07:50 PM)
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RAKing
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/28/07
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2952493 - 02/27/09 08:38 AM
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I have dealt with both of these companies and both produce excellent products.
Please keep in mind that astronomy is NOT what buys the groceries for Losmandy. He works in the motion picture industry and if there is a big production underway, he might not be able to squeeze any astro production out of his little shop. Have you tried calling? I got better results with the phone than with email.
Ron
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie no more
   
Reged: 04/30/03
Loc: NE Ohio
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2952495 - 02/27/09 08:40 AM
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Quote:
I'm guessing nobody stocks Losmandy parts.
I don't think that anyone does stock Losmandy parts. Accessories such as dovetail plates, on the other hand, are usually available off the shelf from their dealers - at least, I've always been able to purchase them that way without delay. Your dealer was apparently out of that particular item; no need to read anything sinister into that. I'd try another dealer.
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TheMenace
sage
   
Reged: 10/21/08
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: jrcrilly]
#2952504 - 02/27/09 08:49 AM
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Thanks for the company history and the support. Now where is my desert eagle? I'm going to make something useful out of my losmandy parts.
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Jeff55
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/14/05
Loc: Boston MA
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2952519 - 02/27/09 09:01 AM
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Scott can move slowly based on the duality of his business model. What concerned me was the poor quality of the parts I've received lately from his shop. I've had to return several items before I got one decently machined.
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islandsteve11
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 01/08/07
Loc: World Class LP of Las Vegas
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Jeff55]
#2952705 - 02/27/09 11:04 AM
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Two days before Christmas, I sent ADM an email asking about the compatablilty of one of his items with my equipment. On the afternoon of Christmas Day, I recieved a reply from owner Anthony Divoli informing me that it was not compatible. Anthony's a class act and I'll gladly do business with him in the future.
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TheMenace
sage
   
Reged: 10/21/08
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: islandsteve11]
#2953589 - 02/27/09 06:22 PM
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Partially solved my problem this evening.
The dm10 arrived with almost the same setup as the dm8.
The brackets that came with each setup (1 short+ 1 long) do not line up with the holes on my ota.
Pairing the brackets with a matched pair fixed my problem.
Both my ota's are deforked versions.
Anyone know if the ota only version has different spacing on the SCT housing than a fork mounted model?
I really doubt it as the blocks fit both my 8" and 10" meade SCT,although the radius of the blocks are slightly different.
The problem would still be haunting me if I didn't order both sets of plates and radius blocks.
Anyone have a photo of ADM radius blocks for meade SCT"S?
Photo showing dm10 installed with extra blocks left over.
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Kolenka
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/01/08
Loc: Seattle Area, WA, USA
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2954295 - 02/28/09 04:16 AM
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Something seems weird, because the blocks you show seem to work just fine on my OTA. In my case though, only two of the holes are used to attach the block to the OTA.
The very outermost holes in the long block are used to attach to the OTA, while the center hole may not even be used. The two next to the outermost are there to help attach the dovetail plate to the block. The blocks themselves would go either on the top or the bottom of the OTA, where the bottom is right underneath the handle on rear-cell of the OTA.
Mine is a deforked 10" LX200, and those long blocks fit perfectly.
EDIT: Could you maybe post a slightly zoomed-out view of the OTA? It actually looks like you tried to mount the blocks slightly off-center now that I take another look. There are 3 screws on the bottom, and the long block attaches to the two outer screws (and the center needs to be removed), while the short block attaches to just the center screw (and the outer screws also need to be removed).
Edited by Kolenka (02/28/09 04:33 AM)
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TheMenace
sage
   
Reged: 10/21/08
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Kolenka]
#2954304 - 02/28/09 04:35 AM
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You are correct. Two holes mount the ota to the blocks,the other two holes mount the dove tail to the blocks. The larger blocks use all three screws to attach to the ota. This works both on my 8" and 10" ota,which are both x fork mounted telescopes.
If I use the set as received,the dove tail will not line up on both ends of the tube. Losmandy sent me a reply saying the holes aren't supposed to line up,but both my ota's don't fit that description.
I believe my OTA"s are from the late 80's to early 90's.
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Kolenka
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/01/08
Loc: Seattle Area, WA, USA
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2954306 - 02/28/09 04:39 AM
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I know in my case when installing the blocks, I couldn't tighten down the blocks at first. I had to get them loosely in place first, and then get the dovetail plate into place while they were still loose. Then with the dovetail plate in place, I could tighten the two blocks.
Again, with the short block, I had to attach it to the center screw only. Otherwise it wouldn't be centered with the long block. The small block /looks/ like it is designed to take more screws, but it doesn't seem to really be that way.
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TheMenace
sage
   
Reged: 10/21/08
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Kolenka]
#2954318 - 02/28/09 04:58 AM
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Try again.
If you align the blocks and use the two outer center holes,you should see that they fit the ota perfectly,but they will not line up with the larger blocks.
Attaching the heavy dove tail and blocks to a 10" ota,using only one screw is a big accident waiting to happen.
You might get by on the 8" ota,but why risk dropping my telescope by using only one mounting screw.
By sending a matched set of blocks,this could easily be avoided.
Maybe the newer LX 200 R has different spacing and hole placement?
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RAKing
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/28/07
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2954469 - 02/28/09 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Maybe the newer LX 200 R has different spacing and hole placement?
I would not be surprised. The manufacturers do this at times and the accessory vendors cannot always keep up.
Anthony sent me a dovetail set for my C8 OTA and it didn't match the hole spacing on my newer OTA. It fit my older tube perfectly (I have two).
It looks like Celestron has a different drilling pattern if the OTA was originally equipped with a CGE dovetail or a Vixen dovetail. Or they changed things during the past few years. Meade might have done the same. I'll have to ream out the holes in the blocks for the narrower spacing in order to attach the blocks and dovetail to the new OTA.
Ron
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Kolenka
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/01/08
Loc: Seattle Area, WA, USA
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2954980 - 02/28/09 01:57 PM Attachment (51 downloads)
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Quote:
Try again.
If you align the blocks and use the two outer center holes,you should see that they fit the ota perfectly,but they will not line up with the larger blocks.
Attaching the heavy dove tail and blocks to a 10" ota,using only one screw is a big accident waiting to happen.
You might get by on the 8" ota,but why risk dropping my telescope by using only one mounting screw.
By sending a matched set of blocks,this could easily be avoided.
Maybe the newer LX 200 R has different spacing and hole placement?
LX200R has the same placement dating back to the Classic. Otherwise all the lovely accessories that date back to that era wouldn't mount on the newer tubes. While I understand Celestron has changed things from time to time, in this case, Meade has not changed the placement of their screws. Partly because of Meade's own accessories they sell that attach to them.
I've attached the diagram provided with the dovetail plate that I received, which is how the blocks are designed to attach to the tube. While I do understand your concern of a single screw holding in the small block, I don't think you would get enough torque if the screw came loose to snap the rest of the dovetail off the rear block or OTA. You wouldn't even get much side-play once the rail itself is firmly attached.
If you are really that concerned and refuse to use it as designed, I'd use the two larger blocks instead of the smaller ones. You will get a much better hold on the OTA than using the small blocks. It will do a much better job at preventing side-play if one of the two mounting blocks do come loose than using the two small blocks (which were really only meant to be mounted on the corrector end, and not designed to be mounted to the rear cell where most of the weight is).
Edited by Kolenka (02/28/09 02:00 PM)
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TheMenace
sage
   
Reged: 10/21/08
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Kolenka]
#2955239 - 02/28/09 05:03 PM
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Thanks for the diagram,I never received one. I still don't understand why the blocks just don't match each other?  Why all the extra holes drilled into the radius block? I'm using the larger blocks on the 10",the smaller on the 8". I just wanted to show that they do interchange,the only difference being the length of the dove tail.
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Kolenka
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/01/08
Loc: Seattle Area, WA, USA
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2955264 - 02/28/09 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Thanks for the diagram,I never received one. I still don't understand why the blocks just don't match each other?  Why all the extra holes drilled into the radius block? I'm using the larger blocks on the 10",the smaller on the 8". I just wanted to show that they do interchange,the only difference being the length of the dove tail.
Cost and different tubes, is what I'd suspect. I'd bet you the large blocks are specific for Meade tubes, while the smaller ones fit both Celestron and Meade tubes. But, as you say yourself, it by itself isn't good enough to hold a D-type dovetail in place. They might save a bit on materials cost.
If I recall correctly, some of the larger dovetails for the Meade that Losmandy makes do use two larger blocks for extra stability. On the 8/10" tubes, it saves a tiny bit of money (without sacrificing too much stability) to use one of each.
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Ido Graiman
member
Reged: 09/26/07
Loc: Israel
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Kolenka]
#2973638 - 03/09/09 12:52 PM
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Hi guys, hope my question is not too much off topic... I'm looking to remove my meade LX10 (8" SCT) from it's fork and mount it on my HEQ5 mount. I'm looking for a dovetail rail of some sort that will attach to the mount on one end and to the OTA on the other end. One of the options is the Losmandy (or ADM) dovetail you are talking about here.
From what I see here, this dovetail is meant to be used for mounting / piggybacking things on top of the OTA, but what I'm looking for is a dovetail that the OTA can be mounted on top of.
Now even if this dovetail is the right choice, how does it mount to the mount itself? from what I can see (please correct me if I'm wrong), it does not have the vixen-style attachment on it.
Any insights?
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Kolenka
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/01/08
Loc: Seattle Area, WA, USA
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Ido Graiman]
#2973704 - 03/09/09 01:20 PM
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Losmandy-style rails are meant to attach to Losmandy-style saddles. To mount an OTA onto a Vixen-style saddle, you need a Vixen-style dovetail.
Losmandy saddles/rails tend to do a better job holding heavier OTAs in place (10-14") than Vixen saddles/rails, and that is why you see a difference.
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TheMenace
sage
   
Reged: 10/21/08
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Kolenka]
#2973721 - 03/09/09 01:28 PM
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The dove tail is used to mount the ota on my atlas. The vixen style just uses one screw on each end to mount the dove tail to the ota,rather than the blocks shown in the photo above.. You'll need the vixen version.
http://admaccessories.com/ADM%20Products/VC8.htm
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Ido Graiman
member
Reged: 09/26/07
Loc: Israel
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2973874 - 03/09/09 02:33 PM
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But then my OTA will be held by two screws! (one on each side of the OTA). It doesn't seems to be safe...
Isn't there a way to attache the vixen-style dovetail (I have both the 8" and the 13" one - from Orion) to the Losmandy dovetail? Also - doesn't the Atlas comes with vixen-style head?
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
   
Reged: 02/25/06
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Ido Graiman]
#2973977 - 03/09/09 03:23 PM
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Yes the Atlas uses a Vixen compatible saddle. The similar to the Atlas new CGEM and NEQ-6 mounts apparently use Losmandy D compatible saddles.
Vixen compatible dovetail rails are 1.75" in width. Losmandy D type plates are ~4" wide (the actual dovetail is 3" wide at its narrowest point). Careful with the nomenclature as Losmandy also makes a V or Vixen compatible rail as well.
Either the Vixen dovetail rail or the Losmandy D type plates should IMHO be on some form of "base". This can take the form of small radius blocks at each end of the rail/plate or a full length plate that the dovetail rail bolts onto (see Scopestuff http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_mpc8.htm for a picture and better explanation).
The exception to the idea of using separate blocks or plates is the Celestron CGE rail ... it is a Losmandy D compatible rail that because of it's unique shape can be bolted directly to the OTA.
Ido, I'm with you ... I'd never want my scope held to the dovetail rail by only two bolts unless it was sitting on a flat surface (like that provided by the radius blocks or full length plate). When a dovetail rail is bolted down to the blocks it can make use of a much heavier bolt.
Edited by mclewis1 (03/09/09 03:26 PM)
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Ido Graiman
member
Reged: 09/26/07
Loc: Israel
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: mclewis1]
#2974033 - 03/09/09 03:51 PM
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So, this brings me to the logic conclusion (at least in my mind) that a combination of both the Losmandy D dovtail and a vixen-style dovetail is probably the best solution; The Losmandy dovetail providing enough 'traction', and the vixen-style dovetail attached to the Losmandy dovetail with more then two bolts (4, in case of the dovetail provided by Orion). The question is - is there a way to connect the two different types of dovetails, or do I need to replace my HEQ5 mount head so that it can work with Losmandy D type dovetail?
Am I the only 8" SCT owner encountering this problem?
BTW, the plate scopestuff sell doesn't solve the problem since it's flat. Therefore - again, there can be only 1 screw at either side of the OTA attaching the two. They do not provide some radius blocks...
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DaveJ
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 01/07/05
Loc: NE Ohio
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Ido Graiman]
#2974121 - 03/09/09 04:25 PM Attachment (47 downloads)
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Hi Ido,
Here are three photos that I believe will clear things up for you. All three show the mounting techniques for a C-11 using Losmandy "D" plate and saddle.
Here's the first showing the "D" saddle. The "V" saddle (Vixen, CG5, etc) is similar, but much smaller and less robust...
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DaveJ
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 01/07/05
Loc: NE Ohio
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: DaveJ]
#2974127 - 03/09/09 04:27 PM Attachment (46 downloads)
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Here's a photo showing the Losmandy "D" rail and radius blocks I use on my C-11:
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DaveJ
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 01/07/05
Loc: NE Ohio
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: DaveJ]
#2974134 - 03/09/09 04:29 PM Attachment (44 downloads)
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and one more:
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Ido Graiman
member
Reged: 09/26/07
Loc: Israel
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: DaveJ]
#2974138 - 03/09/09 04:31 PM
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Thanks Dave. Still, as I previously said - it means I have to either find a way to replace the saddle on my mount to work with a D type dovetail, or I have to find a way to attach the V type dovetail to the D type dovetail (since no matter how hard I googled, I wasn't able to find any V type dovetail that comes with radius blocks). Or am I still missing something?
Thanks
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DaveJ
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 01/07/05
Loc: NE Ohio
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: DaveJ]
#2974149 - 03/09/09 04:36 PM
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Each of the radius blocks are held to the OTA with two screws. The rail is held to each radius block with two more screws. The whole system is pretty secure and I never worry about something coming loose. This same system is available for most any OTA in either the "D" (larger) or "V" (smaller) rails/saddle. Losmandy and ADM both provide most anything you would require for any OTA, to my knowledge. My refractor has rings that attach to a Losmandy style plate so it can be placed in the saddle instead of the C-11. Also available from Losmandy & ADM are dual-saddle arrangements that allow both the C-11 and refractor to be mounted simultaneously.
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DaveJ
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 01/07/05
Loc: NE Ohio
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Ido Graiman]
#2974295 - 03/09/09 05:40 PM
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Quote:
I wasn't able to find any V type dovetail that comes with radius blocks).
Take a look at the VCB8 here. If I'm not mistaken, this is what you're looking for, but you'd have to call Losmandy and see if those radius blocks will work for an 8" Meade or if he's making radius blocks compatible with Meade and hasn't yet updated his web page. Do you know any machinists?
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Ido Graiman
member
Reged: 09/26/07
Loc: Israel
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: DaveJ]
#2974337 - 03/09/09 06:02 PM
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Thanks again Dave. From what I know, the VCB8 exist only for Celestron, but I guess I'll have to give Losmandy a call and ask him. Otherwise, it seems that VSCT13 is the only thing for my OTA, meaning that it will be attached to the OTA by one bolt on each end. Maybe it's enough. Maybe it's not. I have to say that I can't see myself putting my trust in a single bolt 
So again, it's either getting some radius blocks for Meade (and I actually talked with 2 machinists today, and none of them gave wanted to produce a solution for me), or getting the D dovetail and finding a way to attach it to my mount (I am curious to see how TheMenace did it).
Thanks again
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DaveJ
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 01/07/05
Loc: NE Ohio
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Ido Graiman]
#2974362 - 03/09/09 06:12 PM
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Ido, I would not hang an OTA from a mount with a dovetail plate held by a single screw at each end...I'm with you there. Could be the single screw idea is meant for a counterweight rail but that's just conjecture on my part. I believe a call to Scott at Losmandy is in order here. Good luck.
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TheMenace
sage
   
Reged: 10/21/08
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: DaveJ]
#2974423 - 03/09/09 06:35 PM
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Adm makes a dual saddle plate that accepts both dove tails.
The 8" should work fine with one screw on each end as the ota does not weigh enough to cause any problems.
I would call ADM and see about the dual saddle.
The losmandy radius blocks caused me quite a few headaches,as they didn't match up with my ota.
I needed to buy 2 complete dove tails to get a set that match.
The losmandy radius blocks only use 1 screw on the corrector end of the ota,in their stock configuration,even for the 10" ota.
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Ido Graiman
member
Reged: 09/26/07
Loc: Israel
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2974561 - 03/09/09 07:39 PM
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dual saddle plate! Aha! that was the missing link  I'll check ADM's saddle 
The 8" OTA weighs about 12lbs (I assume), which still seems a lot for these screws. I'll feel a lot better with the radius blocks holding my OTA...
As for the frustration with the Losmandy blocks - I just had a talk with a friend who spent a LOT of time trying to figure out how to attach these blocks to the OTA along with the dovetail, so this story is quite familiar 
Thanks for the insight!
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Troys
member
Reged: 02/22/09
Loc: Hudson, FL
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Ido Graiman]
#2976555 - 03/10/09 08:39 PM
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I just bought the ADM VM8 to attach my 8" LX10 OTA to the CG5. It only has 1 screw at each end. They give you longer screws to replace the screws that are there now. I was surprised but the cells are thicker then I thought they woud be.
It's only been a week but it is still tight and have had no problems.
If you look in either the classified section or the swap section someone is selling the one you need for $50.00.
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Ido Graiman
member
Reged: 09/26/07
Loc: Israel
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Troys]
#2976656 - 03/10/09 09:32 PM
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Thanks for the input Troys. Still, leaving the OTA on two screws, with such a small base footprint feels to me like a disaster waiting to happen... I think I'll go with the Losmandy type dovetail and a suitable saddle (it might cost a few more $$$, but eventually, it will quite my worries).
Thanks again
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TheMenace
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Reged: 10/21/08
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: Troys]
#2976871 - 03/10/09 11:18 PM
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The 8" should work great with a skinny light vixen dove tail. Once you get over 10" and add the extra weight of the losmandy dove tail,I really start to question using one screw through the ota to keep the heavy scope attached securely to my mount. My current 10" sct looks like it was already dropped a few times already.
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Ido Graiman
member
Reged: 09/26/07
Loc: Israel
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Re: ADM vs Losmandy
[Re: TheMenace]
#2979430 - 03/12/09 10:55 AM
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Well, I do have the Orion 13" dovetail (vixen-style), which I'll try to adjust to fit my OTA (using two bolts). I'll see how it feels with that dovetail and worse case, if it still bugs me, I'll order the D type dovetail and saddle.
Thanks for the info guys. I really appreciate it!
Clear skies
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