Lane
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/19/07
Loc: Frisco, Texas
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: alanon]
#2979776 - 03/12/09 02:24 PM
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Well guys those are good responses, I will leave it alone now. Happy photo shooting.
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Patrick
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/03
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: Lane]
#2979804 - 03/12/09 02:42 PM
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Why aren't they spending that down time looking through a second scope or scanning for meteors or ever bothering to just look up at the beautiful stars above.
I suspect some of those guys have been observing for years which means they've already seen a lot of stuff...again and again. Astrophotography becomes a branch of the hobby that keeps their interest up and at the same time gives them time to socialize with others who share the same interest. Automating the imaging process becomes another branch of the hobby...it's all good. ATMing and astrophotography have long been associated with amateur astronomy.
Patrick
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Fred1
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/19/07
Loc: Somewhere in the Orion Spur
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: Patrick]
#2980069 - 03/12/09 05:40 PM
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Didn't Levy and Shoemacher discover the most awesome comet event of the last century as amatuer astrophotographers? You know the one I mean.
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Jared
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/11/05
Loc: Piedmont, California, U.S.
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: Lane]
#2980072 - 03/12/09 05:43 PM
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It just seems to me that most astrophotographers given a choice would prefer to spend all their time in the house at the computer tweeking photographs. They treat the process of acquiring those photographs as just a complicated bothersome task. I see the guys at our club set up a shot push a button and then sit down and chat with their buddies for 15 minutes. Why aren't they spending that down time looking through a second scope or scanning for meteors or ever bothering to just look up at the beautiful stars above. They don't seem to care about any of that. I over heard a couple of them last year talking about robotic mounts and how great it would be to have one. Then they would not even have to drive up to the site, everything could be done from inside their house over the web. I love astronomy and get a great feeling just being under dark skies, so I just can't get my thinking wrapped around this kind of attitude. I suppose being into AP is really more about being a photographer than it is about astronomy.
You could ask the same question about many of the recent technological changes in amateur astronomy--I won't call them advances. When digital setting circles first started to become popular people wondered whether they were really a good idea. They allowed you to bypass some of the learning process of star hopping and analog setting circles. Wouldn't someone who was really interested in astronomy want to learn those skills? And continuously use them? Then goto alt-az scopes came out. That change allowed the amateur to completely bypass polar alignment and moving the telescope at all! Just type in the object, and it appeared.
As it turned out neither of these changes was "bad" for amateur astronomy. For those who weren't interested in the mechanics of finding an object (heretofore an integral part of amateur astronomy) they removed an unpleasant burden. Different people are interested in different parts of the hobby. I still prefer not to use my goto systems when doing visual astronomy, but to each his own.
I think your observation is accurate, though. Most astrophotographers do seem to be more interested in the process of building the image out of the data than they are in the process of data capture. At least, this is true once they reach a certain level of proficiency. Don't worry about it, though. It's just another part of our wonderful hobby. It's also the way professional astronomy has been pursued for some time now.
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mischief
super member
Reged: 04/26/08
Loc: Northern California
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: alanon]
#2982369 - 03/13/09 08:45 PM
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My $0.02 - For philosophical question: an alternative to doing your own astrophotograpy with whatever way you want to do it; if you don't want to lose sleep or spend a lot of money, you could go to the Slooh website and take "pictures" of objects their telescopes go to and download them to your computer or if you pay more, you can plan your own observing session. Or you could go to LightBuckets website and plan your own observing session, download the photos they take in FTS format and process them. However, my thoughts (my $.02 on the subject is);  I would rather have the photons hit my eyes or my camera than hit one of the roboscopes that you would use at Slooh or LightBuckets.
As I said, just my $0.02
Dorothy
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alanon
Nobody tells me anything
Reged: 06/29/07
Loc: Las Vegas
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: mischief]
#2982442 - 03/13/09 09:44 PM
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Yep that is my plan as well for the most part. I was just mentioning that it might be cool to try some time. It would sort of give a personal feel to looking upon the Southern hemisphere night sky on the cheap until I can actually aford to go there. 
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johnfdean
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/04/06
Loc: southern tip of Illinois
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: alanon]
#2984149 - 03/14/09 07:36 PM
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I suspect the answers are not based on the equipment but rather the individual. For each person there will be a different answer.
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mischief
super member
Reged: 04/26/08
Loc: Northern California
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: johnfdean]
#2985926 - 03/15/09 07:34 PM
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True about the Southern Hemisphere; Slooh has telescopes in the Canary Islands with good views of the Southern Hemisphere. Alanon, hopefully you can get there some day. I saw a little bit of it about 4 years ago on a cruise to the South Pacific to see the March solar eclipse. It was neat. I did use Slooh for quite a while before I got my own telescopes; it was when I was just getting interested in astronomy and it was fun for then. I got some nice photos. So as an additional way to "do" astronomy, it could be fun.
Dorothy
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alanon
Nobody tells me anything
Reged: 06/29/07
Loc: Las Vegas
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: mischief]
#2985951 - 03/15/09 07:49 PM
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Now that is a trip I would love to take someday! I am getting my own equipment together for this hemisphere so it wouldn't interest me so much for that, but in the meantime a remote reach to views that I cannot do from here has its attractions. 
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mischief
super member
Reged: 04/26/08
Loc: Northern California
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: alanon]
#2987606 - 03/16/09 07:18 PM
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Hi, Dan (Alanon),
You could try Slooh. I think they have a short term "membership" which would allow you to see if you like it. Somehow I am still registered; I guess I was careless when I first registered because I got an email that my "membership" was automatically renewed. No big deal; not that much money. I may try it again, especially when the weather is bad. I think I like Slooh better than LightBuckets. It depends on what you want to do; if you like messing around with processing, then LightBuckets because you can get images in Raw format than play with them. If you decide to try either, I'd appreciate your opinion.
Dorothy 
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alanon
Nobody tells me anything
Reged: 06/29/07
Loc: Las Vegas
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: mischief]
#2987629 - 03/16/09 07:28 PM
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Hi Dorothy,
Thanks for the heads up on the Slooh site. At this point I am still in the "just contemplating mode", but I will be glad to get in touch here on CN as soon as I pull the trigger. It does look like it would be interesting.
PS. Love the cat-frog!
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mischief
super member
Reged: 04/26/08
Loc: Northern California
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: alanon]
#2989314 - 03/17/09 06:11 PM
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Glad I could help, Dan (Alanon), and glad you like my avatar. I don't know where I got it, but it seemed appropriate.
May I ask you a question; as you are Alanon the Wizard, did you get that from Terry Brooks novels about Shannara? I read the first 3 and like them a lot. I started to read some of the second series but I think his writing was not as good. I've pretty much quit reading fantasy; interest in other things like astronomy.
Dorothy 
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alanon
Nobody tells me anything
Reged: 06/29/07
Loc: Las Vegas
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: mischief]
#2989864 - 03/18/09 12:37 AM
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Yep. It is the character from The Shannara series. I read the series years ago, and always liked Alanon. He was a cool wizard. Brooks was also one of the best writers of battles between the forces of good and evil as well.
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Luigi
Postmaster
Reged: 07/03/07
Loc: MA
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: alanon]
#2990109 - 03/18/09 08:08 AM
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Where I come from, Alanon is an abbreviation for Alcoholics Anonomous. I though forum member "alanon" was making a humorous allusion to that in choosing his name, not to a literary character. 
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alanon
Nobody tells me anything
Reged: 06/29/07
Loc: Las Vegas
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: Luigi]
#2990435 - 03/18/09 11:40 AM Attachment (25 downloads)
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When I chose the name I wasn't thinking about that, but apparently many people make that assumption. Had I noticed the AA association I certainly would not have used the name, but I am stuck with it.  I am sure that Alanon is a fine organization, and it wasn't my intent to mock, or make lite of their name in any way. What is more bizzar is that I believe that Alanon the organization uses a software called Wizard.  Perhaps the minor change in my sig line will help. 
Edited by alanon (03/18/09 12:27 PM)
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CounterWeight
Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/08
Loc: Cloudyopolis, OR.
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: alanon]
#2990834 - 03/18/09 02:52 PM
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When I was in the navy I worked on (among many other things) a new system called 'navstar'. It was very hush hush and all that and the fellow on my ship who was there to cross check was a quartermaster chief. He had been on the carriers that met the spashdowns and was extremely competent at both solar and celetial naviagtion - as well as Omega and etc...
It was a huge unit and read out in nixie tubes lat/long... day night, whatever the weather! Can you see where I'm going with this folks?
Well I can tell you this - he wasn't thrilled that a computer and sattelites were going to be better and in any weather at determinig position. I understand as my father taught celestial navigation and solar navigation!
Of course military needs are not the same as we amature astronomers. But I have to sort of ask those that call any electronic assistance 'less than' of a hobby than star hopping, why? Same goes for astrophoto. Why?
Why should it matter who uses GPS and who doesn't? if you need or just want it, it's there. if you don't, it's still there  To say it is 'easy' to use technology... well I hope so otherwise we wouldn't waste the time.
As an example - there is a city adjacent to mine that has a street with the same name. Several times I've gotten phone calls from folks they couldn't find my house. Certainly... they were in Milwaukee and I am in Portland! ooops!
These are 'assistants' to us - but cannot be our brain Try asking someone who's never been in the hobby what they thought of their first try at goto alignment? Answer, folks start learning the sky. Planispheres... planetarium programs... but they start learning.
I think the level of knowledge required to (successfully) do automated imaging is guite high and in no way trivial in the sense of knowing the sky or the equipment and technology. To say they are 'less than' for all it takes to get to that point I think is missing a much larger point, entirely.
I call it 'amature astro macho'.... all this 'star hopping' vs. align/goto. Who needs this macho stuff!? Automated imaging vs. non automated...? "To each his own" goes a long way.
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alanon
Nobody tells me anything
Reged: 06/29/07
Loc: Las Vegas
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: CounterWeight]
#2991204 - 03/18/09 06:18 PM Attachment (24 downloads)
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mischief
super member
Reged: 04/26/08
Loc: Northern California
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: alanon]
#2993009 - 03/19/09 05:28 PM
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Alanon, I liked the Shannara series also. And Alanon was a neat wizard. I read most of the early ones, but the later ones were not as good. I've noticed that in many series type novels, later ones are not as good as the earlier ones.
I am glad you changed your signature, tho. I wasn't sure that my memory of which novel had Alanon so did a Google search. Of course Alcoholics Anonymous came up lots of times, but the Terry Brooks novels did show a couple of times. Sorry if this is way too much off topic, but I was curious.
Dorothy 
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alanon
Nobody tells me anything
Reged: 06/29/07
Loc: Las Vegas
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: mischief]
#2993732 - 03/20/09 01:17 AM
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I sent you a PM , Dorothy.
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jim_m
sage
Reged: 10/25/08
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Re: Technical question and philosophical question
[Re: alanon]
#3011870 - 03/29/09 01:36 PM
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Some interesting and informative answers to the question,but I think it is much simpler.
!. When you go on vacation to Washington D.C.,why do you take pictures of The White House,Washington Monument, etc.?
You can walk up the street and buy professional photos of it all, much better than those you took. Simple Answer:These are "MY" pictures of ________________ .
On technology question, do you carry your Argus C3, a tripod,light meter, bag of film, flash and flash bulbs? No,
you take your Canon or Nikon SLR and a few "chips in your pocket. You might even just take your little 8 m/p "grab & go"
Think about it.
Jim
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