Alph
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/06
Loc: Melmac
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: rmollise]
#2983782 - 03/14/09 04:17 PM
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in particular their 2+4 alignment system and All Star blows the doors of Gemini
Not a chance. The gemini can use up to 256 stars for the mount modeling not just 6. The gemini also models more parameters than the Nexstar and the modeling can be accomplished from any planetarium software.
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waassaabee
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/26/07
Loc: Central California Coast
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: Alph]
#2983856 - 03/14/09 04:57 PM
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Not a chance. The gemini can use up to 256 stars for the mount modeling not just 6. The gemini also models more parameters than the Nexstar and the modeling can be accomplished from any planetarium software.
WOW!! How long does it take to align on 256 stars? And what's the gain? I get excellent tracking and 10+ minute frames autoguiding with Nexstar, and I saved a bucket of $$.
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rmollise
Postmaster
Reged: 07/06/07
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: Alph]
#2983970 - 03/14/09 05:57 PM
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Not a chance. The gemini can use up to 256 stars for the mount modeling not just 6. The gemini also models more parameters than the Nexstar and the modeling can be accomplished from any planetarium software.
You can do the very same with the Celestron mount using T-point, which _IMHO_ works better than the Gemini's feature. I also note that in _my_ experience (YMMV), the Celestron computer produces more accurate alignments without having to resort to such things...
...but...as I said..."to each her/his own." I like the Losmandy mounts very much...I find Gemini to be awkward to use, but that probably says more about me than it does about the Gemini system. 
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blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories
Reged: 07/20/07
Loc: California
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: Alph]
#2984455 - 03/14/09 10:56 PM
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Gemini, 3 star alignment then Polar Align Correction and I can place a star in the cross hair with a 100° slew! That is arc seconds would be my guess. 
Blueman
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: waassaabee]
#2984480 - 03/14/09 11:12 PM
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Not a chance. The gemini can use up to 256 stars for the mount modeling not just 6. The gemini also models more parameters than the Nexstar and the modeling can be accomplished from any planetarium software.
WOW!! How long does it take to align on 256 stars? And what's the gain? I get excellent tracking and 10+ minute frames autoguiding with Nexstar, and I saved a bucket of $$.
The modeling has little to do with tracking. You can model with 6000 points, but if you have a poor polar alignment, tracking will be just that; poor.
I haven't messed with T-point, but I believe it's an extra software program that requires another computer, yes? Don't need that with Gemini.
As stated in a prior post, I've found that the Gemini modeling allows for swings from one side of the meridian to the other and the gotos are dead-on.
Having said all of that, I'm still a big fan of the CGE even with its Dec cable (Marty fixed that) hiccups. 
David
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waassaabee
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/26/07
Loc: Central California Coast
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: blueman]
#2984676 - 03/15/09 02:41 AM
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Gemini, 3 star alignment then Polar Align Correction and I can place a star in the cross hair with a 100° slew! That is arc seconds would be my guess.
Blueman
WOW! That's tight!! 
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blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories
Reged: 07/20/07
Loc: California
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: waassaabee]
#2985368 - 03/15/09 01:53 PM
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Hi,
Yes indeed, with a good polar alignment and 3 stars I can hit a target every time. When I ask for a star, it will many times land in the cross hair, not always as it can be slightly off, but many times.
The secret is Polar Align Correction and 3 stars on one side of the meridian. Then if I want I can do the other side of the meridian with a couple of stars, but not really needed unless I have to do a meridian flip.
That is another bonus of the system, it will track well beyond the meridian, which is important for imagers.
Gemini is not difficult to use or learn really, it is quite simple much like DOS compared to Windows, it has a directory type interface instead of an icon type.
Blueman
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: blueman]
#2985446 - 03/15/09 02:44 PM
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I've been giving the new 4.15 firmware in my CGE a bit of a shake out so I'm still getting used to it but a couple of observations ...
The new All-Star Polar routine is really growing on me. Where I was reluctant to go go through anything more than a quick visual setup before (unless I was imaging then I was resigned to something like 30 minutes worth of setup), I can now do an effective polar alignment in just a few minutes.
With a 2 star alignment and the 4 calibration stars my goto targets all over the sky are consistently in the center 3rd of a 13mm T6 Nagler with my C11 (the Nagler is putting up 22 arc' fov with this scope). With a local Sync (within about 10° of a subject) the gotos are dead center. I figure I could rely on this to put an object on a small CCD sensor just about all the time.
I have no numbers to compare but the older 4.12 firmware did not appear this accurate.
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hersey0308
super member
Reged: 12/04/08
Loc: Ontario Canada
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: Franky]
#2985705 - 03/15/09 05:22 PM Attachment (94 downloads)
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hi franky - i know the titan would not have any problem with the C 14 from a weight standpoint. in the attached pic i have a sct 10 and piggyback 70mm. easy going for this class of mount.
i think the gemini system is fantastic but then i have been using it for quite some time.
drawbacks - mounts in this category are not easy to lift. they get heavy at 4 in the morning. i am happy to have my titan in a permanent home.
what an exciting time shopping for a new mount, good luck in your search!
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hersey0308
super member
Reged: 12/04/08
Loc: Ontario Canada
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: Franky]
#2985713 - 03/15/09 05:29 PM Attachment (89 downloads)
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part two - current widefield set up. i did forget to mention the Titan is quite a handsome devil!
best
david
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Franky
member
Reged: 03/11/09
Loc: Europe, Slovakia
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: hersey0308]
#2986523 - 03/16/09 04:37 AM
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Hi David, I am glad you're happy with your Titan  how old is your mount? If I am right, Losmandy made some upgrade to the mount and started selling its renewed version in 2005. Is your mount from pre- or post-upgrade period?
Do you think it was possible to send in some tracking data? PE curve would be great. What about pointing accuracy (Blueman said his Geminy is deadly accurate when pointing, can you confirm that for your setup?).
Did you tune up your Titan or did it work 100% out of the box? Honestly, I am useless when it comes to mechanical stuff. I can't buy a mount which is "great after you make these little adjustments, tune up, hammer bumping  "... i need something that performs great out of the box, without a need to disasemble it, tune up and put it all back together (I am good at analytical and managerial stuff, but give me a screwdriver or hammer and I am lost )
Sadly, I learned that Celestron often makes great mounts but they need to be tuned up (regreased, etc.) to perform well. My CG-5, for example, was shaky, inacurrate and almost useless for AP. But I found great tunning website (Anstronomy Boy?), and everyone reported great improvement after tuning the mount.... well, but I can't do these things, as I've said. So I've returned CG-5 with C8, and bought myself nice C14... and now I am at a hunt for reliable great-out-of-the-box mount, as you know :-)
Thank you for your help. Hope to hear from you soon 
Frank.
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hersey0308
super member
Reged: 12/04/08
Loc: Ontario Canada
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: Franky]
#2987883 - 03/16/09 09:38 PM Attachment (68 downloads)
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hi frank - i bought this titan used in 2005. it is the earlier version and i have not upgraded the worm. attached is the pempro data taken in february 2009. i have not made any periodic error corrections.
clean and regrease annually. it is not difficult. after a while you will get to know your mount no matter which you choose. i have been working on an article about pointing but there is lots left to do on the subject. here is what i have so far:
http://theatrehipparchus.squarespace.com/march-2009/
best
david
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Franky
member
Reged: 03/11/09
Loc: Europe, Slovakia
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Re: CGE Pro vs Losmandy Titan + any owners of CGE Pro?
[Re: hersey0308]
#2992309 - 03/19/09 10:29 AM
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Well, I am not expert, but thats quite good for a mount in this price range. Still need more information about CGE Pro, so if there are some new owners, please send your impressions, PE curves, anything helps.
I was thinking about getting MI-250, too. God, Larry is such a great guy. Really supportive, always answered my questions in few hours and with elaborate answers. WOW! I am a newbie, but he was very patient and gave me really good recommendations and was trying to help me as much as one can. I almost bought the mount from him, but then I found out that after paying customs and VAT (I am importing the mount to Slovakia), I will pay additional $2150 just for these customs and VAT. That overpriced the mount tremendously  if I only could have that MI-250, it looks great. Cloudy nights posters said its is a great mount, better than Losmandy Titan (but -15 lb payload though). Guys, lets fight against import tax 
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