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Strgazr27
Reged: 10/04/04
Loc: StonyHill Observatory
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: Alph]
#3007072 - 03/27/09 12:51 AM
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Than you have this guy Here who is most likely losing a few bucks or This guy who likely isn't making any money on the deal. I'm also pretty sure a brand new AP 1200 GTO was a bit more than $7400 when new even in 2004.
What is noticeable is the drop in resale of AP 900's and 1200's now that production has been improved. A few years ago they were a much better investment than they are now. Still a good investment, but I wouldn't build my retirement on one.
As for the CGE Pro, I'm curious how you can make a decision before the mount is been out long enough to tell. One last note. I bought a CGE brand new in 2007. I paid $3100 for it. I sold it over 1 yr later for $2900. What's wrong with that?
Now back to the MI-250 
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: Strgazr27]
#3007369 - 03/27/09 08:27 AM
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Back OT...
After researching the link David Provided; I'm now starting to re-think what I will do when I get the call from Daleen on the 900 (or even the Mach1GTO)...
My "next" mount could be:
CGEPro ($5K)
Mach1GTO ($6K+?)
AP900 ($8.5K+all the other stuff you need with AP), or
MI250 ($7.5K)...
In evaluating quality, price, features and capacity... I'm starting to think that the MI250 is looking better all the time...
Pro's on the CGE Pro are that I fully understand the SW and controls, and its a lot of capacity for the money; con's probably not as good tracking, PE, etc. as the others...
pro's for the Mach1GTO are that its very clean, high quality AP Mount. Cons are price and price/capacity
pro's for the AP900 are same as Mach1GTO, but more capacity. Con's are price and (compared with the MI250) price/capacity...
Thinking about it this way, the MI250 is moving "up" on my consideration list...
I'll be interested in your experiences with it David, especially since you have strong CGE experience.
As far as the "value" of buying used; I bought my CGE a year ago for $2100... I would guess I wouldn't be losing much selling it even now in today's market...
I think anyone who buys any astro gear as a "investment" is missing the entire point. Just as - ultimately - most who thought of their HOUSES as an investment are now "burned"...
Astro gear is just that - Astro Gear. THAT is it's purpose.
Just as a house (or car) is just that. A house, or car...
clear enough skies
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3007598 - 03/27/09 10:39 AM
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the difference between the CGE and the MI250 is night and day. And with Larry's improvements, it ups the capacity, but the price remains the same.
Performance? 3-5 arcseconds out of the box, uncorrected. Get the CGE supercharged and use PEC and you'll get it down to 8-10 arcseconds. Very good for the price, but it will never be a 250.
Price difference? Is it worth the difference? Is it worth the difference between a Stratus and a Panoptic? If you want maximum performance, yes, it's worth it.
My experience tells me that I should've never sold the first 250 I had. But I didn't know I'd have an observatory. The 250 can be moved around, but it's not fun, especially if you use the MI pier. IT"S BIG!
So....unless I have a long lost uncle somewhere and I can buy a Chronos, this mount has found a long time home.
I do have a request, however. I'm going to claim OP domain  and ask that we take the investment part of the thread to Off Topic. And now, back to your regular programming.
David
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: David Pavlich]
#3007654 - 03/27/09 11:04 AM
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How much is involved with an MI250 to mount it (permanently) to a pier that is currently holding a CGE? Does Larry (or someone else) make an adapter plate...
right now I'm using a Dan's Pier Plates adapter between my Pier and the CGE, works great... would the MI250 plate just bolt directly to my existing pier, or is there yet another adapter plate required?
Curious, because I'm pretty sure that I'm going to "come up" on the AP GTO and 900 lists (again) this spring, and they are either not as much mount, or a lot more money than the MI250, and you also need so much OTHER stuff with the AP mounts...
Question #2: How hard is it to transition to Gemini from Celestron (useability, etc.)? I do have the CGE interface, alignment process, etc. all "burned" into my fingers so to speak!
I really like the looks of that MI250... a LOT
clear enough skies
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Joel
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/08/04
Loc: Merrimack, NH
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3007722 - 03/27/09 11:40 AM
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I'm sold on the MI-250 as well David and I'll echo Dave's questions on mounting, etc. I have a 8 1/4" astropier and I think it will fit right onto it. I think it comes with it's own mounting plate. That is another selling point for me, it's plug and play for my pier. Sound right?
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3007735 - 03/27/09 11:47 AM
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The bottom plate is easy to work with. What I did was take it to a machine shop and had them drill and counterbore 3 holes and match them to a 3/8" plate. My pier is a fabricated steel pier that has a plate welded to the top. I just took the plate and drilled 4 holes for 5/8" all-thread for leveling. I have three 3/8" allen head bolts that hold the 250 base plate to the top plate. Very sturdy. In other words, it's not difficult.
Transition to Gemini? Just about everyone will have one frustrating evening...maybe two. For this, you really need to read the instruction manual CLOSELY. If you follow it to the T, it becomes very intuitive. But the learning curve is more than either the Celestron or Meade or Orion. But it does a lot more. You can create a pointing model that's amazing!
Trust me, it's worth the learning curve. And, of course, it's totally adaptable to programs like Sky6. Someday, I'm going to get that part up and working. I have Sky 6 and the adapters, but haven't taken the time to get it working.
And with Larry's changes, this becomes a really attractive mount to someone that really wants to load 'er up.
Go to the CCD section and look for Paul Burke's latest imaging. He goes by f29pc. He has the 250 that I had. He has completely automated his rolloff. His imaging is really amazing!
David
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: Joel]
#3007921 - 03/27/09 01:18 PM
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Hey Joel... somebody over on AM is selling Bobby's old MI250 for what looks to be a pretty attractive price... not sure I can swing $5600 right now, but that's way better than $7250...
maybe you're ready before me on this?
Bobby: any thoughts on its "provenance"?
clear enough skies
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Strgazr27
Reged: 10/04/04
Loc: StonyHill Observatory
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3007928 - 03/27/09 01:22 PM
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All I can say is if I had the money right now you'd have seen a SOLD tag on the Ad. It was a beauty Dave. You wouldn't regret it ONE BIT! If you keep it up I can just come up to your house to "Visit" all my old equipment Lol
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Joel
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/08/04
Loc: Merrimack, NH
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3008242 - 03/27/09 03:50 PM
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It's not in the cards right now Dave, maybe this fall. I saw a guy from Sunapee NH on AM last year sold an MI-250 with LOADS of accessories, half I didn't need, with an asking price of $5600. I totaled up the new price on the accessories alone and they came up to over $1800. Believe me I did lot's of figuring and came real close to offering him about $4500 cash without the accesories I didn't need and I come up and pick it up but I decided against it.
I'll probably buy a new one as I really like the improvements over the old ones but if someone were "giving one away" I might take advantage of Larry's upgrade plan.
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: Joel]
#3008366 - 03/27/09 04:53 PM
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yeah - if I weren't so "conservative", I'd just spend the money, economy be darned...
But... good stewardship really says I hafta take a "look and see" at least for the next 2-3 months... if things pickup, then it's a "go"... if not, it's "hunker down"...
Bobby: trust me, I am sorely tempted... $5600 seems a great price; I just don't have enough gear I can sell off to get me "close enough"
Now, if I could bear to part with:
CGE - AND:
Ethoses
31T5 and 22T4 and 3-6Zoom
STV
I might be close enough, but then I'd eventually have to get all that stuff AGAIN! LOL
Argh, the inhumanity! 
clear enough skies
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Jason Glass
sage
Reged: 06/27/05
Loc: 36°33'9.19"N, 86°40'7.36"W
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3009685 - 03/28/09 11:42 AM
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Hi guys,
I've been following this thread with interest, since that's my ad on the 'mart.
Bobby, thanks for speaking up on the quality of its performance. I never used it for imaging, and your opinion means a lot. Your great images speak volumes, too.
As I read the thread, I am stumped by how difficult it has been to strike a deal and sell it. Even though it's not the latest version, it really is a mount and accessories that cost $8K new, and performs as such. I have noticed that there have been a few sold in recent years for prices that indicate that the sellers were desperate, or unconcerned about recovering their initial cost, or acknowledging in their price the real state of wear and tear on their mounts. This has given the impression to potential buyers that all MI-250's depreciate fast. DOH!
C'mon guys, buy my mount!
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DeanS
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/12/05
Loc: Central Kentucky
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: Jason Glass]
#3009823 - 03/28/09 12:44 PM
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I had a new one, bought in April 05, and I sold it in Nov 07 for about $600-800 less than I had in it as I bought it right before a big price increase. If I remember right as it was while ago.
Here is the astromart ad I ran for a couple weeks before it sold, there had been a couple others for sale at the time and for some reason they did not sell at the time.
http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=528872
I had two reasons for selling, I planned on getting a larger RC type scope in the near future, and I wanted to go past the meridian longer. Oh, and my name came up on the 1200 list. Otherwise I really liked the mount, and I thought the Gemini was great.
My name was also called for the 900 a few months after getting the MI-250 and I did not even consider it at that point.
I also think that the resale of AP mounts will not be quite a high as in the past since they have increased production and the wait times are much less.
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: DeanS]
#3009880 - 03/28/09 01:13 PM
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Does the MI 250 have hard stops at or a little past Meridian?
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DeanS
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/12/05
Loc: Central Kentucky
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: JerryWise]
#3009999 - 03/28/09 02:30 PM
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If if goes too far the DEC head will hit the side of the RA. I think this would be about 7*+ past. I set my limits at 5* and was fine with that.
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: The "new" MI250
[Re: JerryWise]
#3010116 - 03/28/09 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Does the MI 250 have hard stops at or a little past Meridian?
Larry said it'll image for about 40 minutes beyond the meridian. Hard stops are set by the owner.
David
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