Rob_G
sage
Reged: 10/12/06
Loc: Syracuse, NY
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Strgazr27]
#3006577 - 03/26/09 07:40 PM
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Well I sent an email back to Daleen telling them I wanted to be put back on the list. Yes I could have talked the wife into it if I showed her I could have made money but I have such an issue with flipping that I could not do that. I would have gladly purchased it for someone for the exact price it cost which to me is not flipping it. Hopefully the next guy in line is not having to make the same decision I have. And now the wait begins again....
You, sir, deserve a lot of credit for not "flipping" the mount to make a few bucks.
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Trebor777
Hazy
Reged: 01/04/08
Loc: Connecticut - U.S.
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Dr Benway]
#3006600 - 03/26/09 07:50 PM
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Luigi, you really thought that one out well before you posted, didn't you? That's called PROFITEERING.
John
It's also called Capitalism.
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Trebor777
Hazy
Reged: 01/04/08
Loc: Connecticut - U.S.
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Rob_G]
#3006607 - 03/26/09 07:54 PM
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Flipping or proffiteering, it's still legit. You want it now, you pay more. Wait and you pay less. Time is money. All dealers charge a markup, for which they supposedly provide some service, one of which is stocking items so that they are immediately available. Is Astronomics profiteering because they mark up everything the sell?
When people do this with concert tickets it's called "scalping" and it's against the law.
Scalping's only illegal if you're selling the tickets right outside of the venue, on the venue's property. (otherwise selling tickets sports, music, whatever, online would be illegal) I've gotten the best seats at Yankee Stadium from scalpers. I love 'em.
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Rob_G
sage
Reged: 10/12/06
Loc: Syracuse, NY
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Trebor777]
#3006682 - 03/26/09 08:30 PM
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Flipping or proffiteering, it's still legit. You want it now, you pay more. Wait and you pay less. Time is money. All dealers charge a markup, for which they supposedly provide some service, one of which is stocking items so that they are immediately available. Is Astronomics profiteering because they mark up everything the sell?
When people do this with concert tickets it's called "scalping" and it's against the law.
Scalping's only illegal if you're selling the tickets right outside of the venue, on the venue's property. (otherwise selling tickets sports, music, whatever, online would be illegal)
I'm not going to argue with you, but you're wrong. Obviously, the laws differ from state to state. But in many jurisdictions "scalping" tickets is illegal. Whether they prosecute it or not is another matter.
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Trebor777]
#3006715 - 03/26/09 08:50 PM
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Here we go again - yet another "is it ok to flip to make a buck because I can" threads. Can the "its AP's fault because of their flawed business model/notification list" discussion be far behind, LOL?
Sure, I guess it is "legit" as a lot of you say to buy and then turn around and sell. Something just doesn't seem fair about it but then again, I think you're either raised with that sense or you aren't. Last time I looked, AP had only 2 authorized dealers in the US and neither of them gouge. Maybe AP should get a little tougher with their warranty service (i.e., make it non-transferrable) to thwart all the other self appointed dealers (flippers) out there but I'm sure they don't want the hassle. To be honest, I think the buyers of a flipped scope/mount are just as "guilty" - if they could overcome their desire for instant gratification there wouldn't be much of a problem. I've "made do" with a Losmandy during my wait, just as I "made do" with a TOA130 while I waited for my 140 (question is - why does anyone "need" to have an AP "right now" at a crazy premium? ...I can only think a lot of posers out there with $'s want the bragging rights). The wait just makes me appreciate my AP gear that much more when the day finally arrives.
I think Bobby did the right thing and I applaud him. Some don't - to each his own.
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Trebor777
Hazy
Reged: 01/04/08
Loc: Connecticut - U.S.
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Rob_G]
#3006721 - 03/26/09 08:53 PM
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I'm not going to argue with you, but you're wrong.
 You just did...lol. You're right. Selling for a "profit" is illegal. Scalping Laws
Anyhow, Bobby, sorry you had to pass. That sucks. Maybe the next go-round.
Edited by Trebor777 (03/26/09 08:56 PM)
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
Reged: 11/02/03
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Trebor777]
#3006850 - 03/26/09 10:10 PM
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Strgazr27
Reged: 10/04/04
Loc: StonyHill Observatory
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Charlie Hein]
#3007074 - 03/27/09 12:52 AM
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Thanks Charlie 
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mikey cee
Postmaster
Reged: 01/18/07
Loc: bellevue ne.
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Strgazr27]
#3007136 - 03/27/09 01:58 AM
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Scalping is only illegal because the powers that be don't want you on their turf. Nobody's putting a gun to anybody's head to buy scalped items. 
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Jeff Young
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/04/05
Loc: Ireland
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: mikey cee]
#3007228 - 03/27/09 05:40 AM
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I buy a lot of used gear on AstroMart (and I really mean used, not flipped). But I'm not that active on AstroMart so I don't normally see ads in their infancy. That means that generally speaking, I end up buying items that are priced just a bit above market which therefore stayed for sale long enough for me to see them. (The fact that I'm overseas also means that exchanges involving slightly above-market prices are more likely to be well-received.)
In a way, those who place items on AstroMart just a bit above market price are doing me a service. Are they profiteering?
I don't presume to know the answer to that, but I do think it illustrates that there's a lot more gray here than black and white....
Cheers,
-- Jeff.
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Mike Clemens
Frozen to Eyepiece
Reged: 11/26/05
Loc: Alaska, USA
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Jeff Young]
#3007236 - 03/27/09 05:48 AM
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> Flipping or proffiteering, it's still legit.
Thats true... just like the old legit business rule "We reserve the right to refuse to do business with you."
My bet is that Astro-Physics recognizes the obvious flippers/abusers the next time their name comes up.
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Luigi
Postmaster
Reged: 07/03/07
Loc: MA
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Mike Clemens]
#3007420 - 03/27/09 09:03 AM
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At the risk of getting locked...
In the music business, I know of advanced instructors who have a standing order for one or two instruments a year and offer them to students as a markup of 10 to 15%. Years ago I was happy to take adavantge of that rather than wait 7 or more years on the regular waiting list, a long time for a young student muscian.
Getting back to astro equipment, getting the good stuff is all about having the money. The more money you have, the less dependent you are on waiting for a sale or for the item to come up on a used the used market. You might even be able to pay a premium to get something faster. We do it all the time in business, paying expediting fees for things we need faster than the standard price will get it. I don't see anything unfair or wrong about it.
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Strgazr27
Reged: 10/04/04
Loc: StonyHill Observatory
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Luigi]
#3007455 - 03/27/09 09:32 AM
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At this pojnt I'm asking that the topic get back on track. Part of me thought posting this was a bad idea and unfrotunately it seems to have gone the way I hoped it wouldn't.
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Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Loc: Bosham, UK
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Strgazr27]
#3007481 - 03/27/09 09:45 AM
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I've also just turned down a Mach1GTO notification Bobby, seem to be a few of us - nice idea, wrong time, so i'm back on the list for the next time round too.
Wouldn't pass up a 160 notification though 
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Ben Ritchie]
#3007618 - 03/27/09 10:51 AM
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Now Ben has hit on it... if/when I come up for a 160, I'm ALL over that - heck, I'll raid the college fund if I hafta 
But for a Mount? Not so much... they make those every year!
Bobby, I really feel for you... having gone through this last year, and likely again this year (presuming I'll shortly get that email), since my bonus for Q1/Q2 sales isn't enough (heck I need the bonus to pay all the tax increases they've dumped on small businesses here in Mass - and to save for those about to come from what it would appear)... Doesn't help that I just had to drop $2.2K on emergency repairs to my 11 year old car!
Maybe NEXT years production run will be that magic fit for you, me and others in similar places? when the availability, the price AND the funds all align...
In the meantime, I've certainly not gotten anywhere near reaching the limits of my CGE; so I'd only be buying in advance of my actual requirements anyways...
Yeah, that's the justification that makes me feel better! "I'm not yet worthy!" :waynesworldgraemlin:
Maybe you should try that rationalization too? 
BTW: I'm still REALLY digging that R200CF and FT/Digital Motor focuser - a LOT...
clear enough skies
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Trebor777
Hazy
Reged: 01/04/08
Loc: Connecticut - U.S.
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3007753 - 03/27/09 11:55 AM
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Just wondering, but do you have to put a down payment to get on the list? And can you pay for the everything up front, therefor not having to worry about the funds being there or not when your name comes up because they already have your $$?
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Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Loc: Bosham, UK
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Trebor777]
#3007807 - 03/27/09 12:21 PM
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Just wondering, but do you have to put a down payment to get on the list?
No, you just give AP your contact details. No obligation on either side - they don't have to ever offer me a Traveler, for example, but if they do I don't have to buy it.
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And can you pay for the everything up front, therefor not having to worry about the funds being there or not when your name comes up because they already have your $$?
Not really (although I guess you can put the money in savings/fine wine/rare stamps/Naglers until notification comes). As there's no guarantee that AP will ever supply you with whatever you're on 'the list' for there would be no sense in paying for it up front.
Once you're notified, you have a month or so to come up with a 50% downpayment, followed by the final 50% before delivery.
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mischief
super member
Reged: 04/26/08
Loc: Northern California
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: Rob_G]
#3008365 - 03/27/09 04:52 PM
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Strgazr27, please do me a favor and don't all you guys get mad. This is a girl thing. Please do not refer to your significant other as "the wife". To a gal, this term is demeaning; at least to this gal. Thanks. You could say, "my wife, "name" or just my wife; "the wife" makes her sound like a "possession" sort of like "the dog" or "the cat" or "the phone", etc..
Thanks,
Dorothy, "the crabby old lady" 
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: mischief]
#3008382 - 03/27/09 05:02 PM
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So... 
I suppose SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) is no good either?
 
Wive's are most definitely NOT possessions! More like Treasures!
clear enough skies
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bdjeep
sage
Reged: 01/29/07
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: My name came up :) But there is a problem :(
[Re: mischief]
#3008436 - 03/27/09 05:35 PM
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Please do not refer to your significant other as "the wife".
While we're on the subject, the words "hubby" and "wifey" should be stricken from the English language as well. I find them particularly annoying.
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