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John Miele
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Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling
      #3020202 - 04/02/09 02:52 PM

I have this mount on my short list as a candidate to use with my SV102ED refractor and it looks so cool that I really wanted it to be good. But I'm not sure I'd try one now, after reading the latest review on Cloudy Nights front page. What is the consensus on this mount? It is pricy enough that I would expect problems noted in the review would not/should not be happening...

John Miele


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Dr Benway
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Reged: 03/27/08

Loc: Abilene, TX
Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: John Miele]
      #3020319 - 04/02/09 04:10 PM

I have had one since last October and it has worked extremely well. I bought mine from Steve Forbes at Trapezium Telescope Services. He is the only dealer who tears each unit down, replaces the Chinese grease, makes all the fine adjustments, and actually field tests them before they are sold. Apparently, iOptron has lousy QC. The product is top of its class, operationally. I have tracked M42 for six hours or longer with it always in the center of the eyepiece. I do astrophotography in alt/az with mine using a C8, Hyperstar3 and a QHY8 CCD camera. It is a rock-steady platform and I am only limited to 56 second exposures due to field rotation.

John Bozeman


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Al Canarelli
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Dr Benway]
      #3020448 - 04/02/09 05:14 PM

I want to buy one of these simply because it's so light weight, so compact and very accurate. However, when I think of how I'm going to use it, it may not be a good buy. I expect to use it as a grab and go during the cold weather months and the heaviest scope I would use is a C6. So, I think the CubePro may suit me better and will also save me $300.

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Lane
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Loc: Frisco, Texas
Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Al Canarelli]
      #3020580 - 04/02/09 06:37 PM

That is a distressing review of what I thought was suppose to be a good portable mount. I guess getting one from Trapezium is the only way to go.

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Astrobuddy
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Reged: 09/24/08

Loc: Montreal, Canada
Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Lane]
      #3020642 - 04/02/09 07:21 PM

My MiniTower works as a charm. Never had a problem since last year. I bought it from a Canadian dealer.

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J_D_Metzger
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Lane]
      #3020643 - 04/02/09 07:22 PM

I'll post here what I just posted on the other forum:

========================================================================
I have a Mini-Tower that I bought from a vendor who does NOT test or adjust them before shipping. The only problem I had with it is that the GPS connection was loose, a problem that was well documented on the iOptron Yahoo Group, and it took me less than 5 minutes to fix it. Since then, it has worked perfectly, and is a joy to use with my 3" refractor or my C6.

One should keep in mind that the Mini-Tower only costs $799, and for a GPS-equipped GOTO mount, it is a price break-through IMO. I would recommend it to anyone who wants an inexpensive, easy to use, accurate GOTO mount for a small scope for visual observing.

Most of the complaints I've seen about the MT are related to its unsuitability for Astro-Photography, or some problems with PC control. IMO, anyone who bought a $799 alt-az mount thinking they could do AP was smokin' dope. The mount does a terrific job of what it was designed for, at a great price.

Just my


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Mlehere
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: John Miele]
      #3020800 - 04/02/09 08:48 PM

I purchased a used Mini-tower and immediately had it sent to Steve Forbes for upgraded bearings and adjustment. He tested it and it is dead-on in its operation carrying a 5" refractor. I would buy one from anyone but Steve Forbes because he guarantees they work properly before he ships it.
Mike


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JimWaterford
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Reged: 01/20/09

Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Mlehere]
      #3020841 - 04/02/09 09:12 PM

I bought a SV102ED (standard Focuser) and the Ioptron Minitower six weeks ago and the combination is fantastic. The dealer I bought it from (Great Red Spot) did not do anything to the unit prior to me receiving the mount and I have had no problems at all. I have used it 8 times and am amazed at the accuracy of the tracking and ease of the set up. . I heard the MiniTower was the best offering from Ioptron. The SV102Ed is great too. No regrets here.

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Dr Benway
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: J_D_Metzger]
      #3020854 - 04/02/09 09:24 PM Attachment (107 downloads)

J.D.,

I have to challenge you on the dope smokin' AP statement. I have been getting great results with the alt/az Mini Tower. My only limitation is 56 second exposures due to field rotation. Here is a 10x56 sec exposure I shot of IC434 02/28/09

John


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Loren A. Busch
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Dr Benway]
      #3020885 - 04/02/09 09:44 PM

I have one of the first Mini Towers shipped and love it. I did have a problem with the GPS working when it first arrived but the problem was dealt with in record time by iOptron. Since then it has been trouble free. As for load, one evening I hung a Meade 8" SCT on one side and my Intes Micro 150mm MAK on the other, a load way beyond spec.I balanced carefully and it ran for over two hours without a hitch in pointing or tracking. Given the price for a complete setup with carry case I've found the setup for me (after many years and many mounts). I also had the iOptron Cube before the Mini Tower came out and (within it's weight limitations) also worked perfectly, great pointing, great tracking.
BTW, my Vixen Skypod (with expensive accessories) is for sale.


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John Miele
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Loren A. Busch]
      #3020968 - 04/02/09 10:21 PM

Well it's great to see all these mostly positive experiences. Has anyone else seen the jerking problem the review was talking about? Sounds like no one who responded here has seen it. If these problems are very isolated then it's not as bad a situation as I thought. I agree that for the price, this is a very innovative mount and is really just what I am looking for...provided the quality is there.

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Dr Benway
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: John Miele]
      #3021040 - 04/02/09 10:55 PM

Hopefully this review will be a wake-up call to iOptron Corporation to get their act together. My handset tells me there is an autoguider function in EQ mode, for example. Steve Forbes has prototyped a wedge that will be in production soon. No one seems to have a clue what it will take to enable the autoguider feature. Others are having trouble trying to drive the mount with PC planetarium programs. iOptron says they are working on it. The GOTONOVA hardware engineers must not be talking to the software people.

John


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Bob Moore
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Dr Benway]
      #3021117 - 04/02/09 11:45 PM

Can someone please point me to the review

Bob


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Lane
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Bob Moore]
      #3021139 - 04/02/09 11:58 PM

Here it is Bob:

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1953


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J_D_Metzger
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Dr Benway]
      #3021237 - 04/03/09 01:07 AM

Quote:

J.D.,

I have to challenge you on the dope smokin' AP statement. I have been getting great results with the alt/az Mini Tower. My only limitation is 56 second exposures due to field rotation. Here is a 10x56 sec exposure I shot of IC434 02/28/09

John




Hi John,

Aw, that was with a Hyperstar - that's cheating!

Seriously, that's a great shot, and I stand corrected...


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Dr Benway
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: J_D_Metzger]
      #3021251 - 04/03/09 01:16 AM

Thanks, J.D.

Yes, the Hyperstar feels like cheating, too!

John


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Al Canarelli
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Dr Benway]
      #3021273 - 04/03/09 01:38 AM

I just read the last review and I share the conclusion that this fine looking piece of equipment may not be ready for prime time. It seems that some who posted in this thread, purchased from Steve Forbes at Trapezium, paid extra for this service and have had no problems.

I already find that the stock mount (@ $800) is on the pricey side. If I were to buy this mount, I would also want Steve Forbes to trick out my mount. What does he do and what does he get for his service? Can anyone offer some information?


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jasonj998
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: John Miele]
      #3021284 - 04/03/09 01:55 AM

Quote:

Well it's great to see all these mostly positive experiences. Has anyone else seen the jerking problem the review was talking about? Sounds like no one who responded here has seen it. If these problems are very isolated then it's not as bad a situation as I thought. I agree that for the price, this is a very innovative mount and is really just what I am looking for...provided the quality is there.




I am among the early bird group of Minitower and have been using it flawlessly since then. I noticed some discussion about the jerking problem at high power in iOptron Yahoo group at the very beginning, and it was solved by firmware upgrade if I remember correctly. There wrer a few weeks gap the Minitower sold out, but when the new ones arrived, it seemed no mention of the jerking problem again.

Looks like the reviewer purchased the unit not too long ago, it should not be the old batch.


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dpastern
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: jasonj998]
      #3021417 - 04/03/09 07:08 AM

I can never understand people supporting poor QC...it appears that this mount has a solid reputation of problems, I'd give it a wide berth myself. One should not have to rely on a 3rd party (and extra expenditure) to fix core basic problems with poor QA and manufacture. Even at a "lowly" US $700 (which is not that cheap I might add).

Dave


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Peter King
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Reged: 11/02/08

Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: dpastern]
      #3021573 - 04/03/09 09:14 AM

Quote:

I can never understand people supporting poor QC...it appears that this mount has a solid reputation of problems, I'd give it a wide berth myself. One should not have to rely on a 3rd party (and extra expenditure) to fix core basic problems with poor QA and manufacture. Even at a "lowly" US $700 (which is not that cheap I might add).

Dave




Mine was not from a third party; I bought the MiniTower last year from iOptron online store and it was shipped to my house directly from CA by UPS. To be honest, the product's workmanship is pretty good and the design is super. I have used it for several public events and constantly used at by backyard, never had a single issue at all. The first time assembly was about 10 min with manual (the manual was so so, but you barely need it) and 2-3 min every time later per the simplicity of the mount. I have owned/used at least 5 different mounts including every expensive ones; I give the MiniTower number one rank. Both goto and tracking accuracy of MiniTower are great; it often lock the target at the dead center of the FOV. After I had the MiniTower, two of my friends bought it, one from OPT and one from iOptron. I am not aware any problem they have encountered but happy and enjoy. Peter


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J_D_Metzger
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Peter King]
      #3021677 - 04/03/09 10:22 AM

Interesting. It seems the majority of positive comments are by owners of the mount, and the majority of negative comments are by people who have never used one...

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Al Canarelli
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Peter King]
      #3021703 - 04/03/09 10:36 AM

As a very likely Ioptron buyer, (was planning to buy a Mini Tower or CubePro at NEAF) this thread and the recent review on CN has served as an eye opener.

While there is a solid group of people in this very thread who are very happy with the product, one can't overlook the fact that the author of the review got two "stinkers" in a row! This tells me that there is an excellent chance I would get the same if I buy one. Having been through this scene with other manufacturers and other products in the past, I'm going to avoid future complications and reserve my buying plans for a while. If you think I'm making a mistake, kindly post here or PM me.


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donsinger1
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Reged: 10/28/07

Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: John Miele]
      #3021775 - 04/03/09 11:22 AM

Unfortunately, I have to agree with the review. I had one and sold it for several reasons: (1) I did notice the jerkiness and found it annoying at high power; and, (2) I found it noisy when tracking when compared to my SE setup, which is dead silent. However, maybe Steve Forbes tear down eliminates this, I do not know.

What I really liked was the accuracy of the gotos and dead on all night long tracking; however, this did not overcome my annoyance at the jerkiness and noise; but this is personal preference.

Relative to portability, I think it is a tossup between the iOptron and my 6SE..I have a great Lowpro bag that compactly fits the 6SE with OTA, and then some, so I give each a tie on that issue.

Sincerely,
Don


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Dave Ponder
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Peter King]
      #3021838 - 04/03/09 11:53 AM

I tried two of them....both bounced the image so much I could not enjoy the view at all. Would love to have a good one, but zero for two is enough for me....
Dave P


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Al Canarelli
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Dave Ponder]
      #3021946 - 04/03/09 12:42 PM

I did some research with Trapezium and here's what I learned...

If you are planning to buy a Mini Tower, you should buy it ONLY from Trapezium! These people take each unit out and use it for a few hours. If it works satisfactorily, it goes back to the shop for tune up and custom greasing. It then goes back to the field for testing again. I am told that each unit is tested for several hours. If it works satisfactorily, it is packed and sent to the client. If not, it is rejected and sent back to Ioptron. This is called the regular tune up.

The Ultra tune up goes a little further in that the stock bearings are changed for better bearings.

Okay, so what does it cost? There seems to be NO CHARGE for the regular tune up costs as the price is $799, which is almost what all other dealers charge. Keep in mind, however, that Trapezium does not discount the mount and a few other dealers do...the lowest price I've seen is $749. Additionally, Trapezium WILL charge shipping to you, which is not the case with many other dealers. Therefore, you will be paying a real cost of $100 more for the Mini Tower with basic tune up than you would be paying from another dealer (this assumes that shipping cost is about $50.) The real price of the Mini Tower has now escalated to $899, under the circumstances, this is a bargain!

The price of the Ultra Tune Up is an extra $300, bringing the price of the Mini Tower to $1099 plus shipping.

Finally, a very important point: Trapezium will handle all warranty claims from their shop in NH, so Ioptron is kept out of the loop. (Not sure of the warranty period)


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Dr Benway
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Al Canarelli]
      #3021955 - 04/03/09 12:48 PM

Al,

I conversed with Steve Forbes this morning and he says he will be set up at NEAF across from the iOptron booth. You can talk to him in person since you will be there.

John


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Mlehere
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Dr Benway]
      #3022477 - 04/03/09 05:18 PM

I talked with Steve before buying my mount. The jerkiness referred to was likely caused by the motors in early units. These have since been modified. Steve referred to this as seeing the object zig-zag in the eyepiece at higher magnification and was very bothersom. Supposedly, these early units are warranteed and will be replaced by Ioptron with the new design.
Mike


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Al Canarelli
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Mlehere]
      #3022519 - 04/03/09 05:47 PM

Al,

I conversed with Steve Forbes this morning and he says he will be set up at NEAF across from the iOptron booth. You can talk to him in person since you will be there.

John
============================================================
Thank you, John. This is one of the first things I intend to do.

Al


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Lane
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Al Canarelli]
      #3022522 - 04/03/09 05:49 PM

Right across from the iOptron booth, I wonder if it bothers them to have him sitting there as a constant reminder to them that their QA sucks.

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Rob_G
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Lane]
      #3022750 - 04/03/09 08:31 PM

Quote:

Right across from the iOptron booth, I wonder if it bothers them to have him sitting there as a constant reminder to them that their QA sucks.






I was thinking the same thing.


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Peter King
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: J_D_Metzger]
      #3022759 - 04/03/09 08:37 PM

Quote:

Interesting. It seems the majority of positive comments are by owners of the mount, and the majority of negative comments are by people who have never used one...




Me too, thinking the same thing.


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Al Canarelli
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Peter King]
      #3022881 - 04/03/09 09:51 PM

Interesting. It seems the majority of positive comments are by owners of the mount, and the majority of negative comments are by people who have never used one...
============================================================
The current review on CN was posted by an owner. I should add that he seemed to be a very reserved owner who had a right to be upset, getting 2 $800 stinkers in a row. He showed no signs of being overly upset, having posted his review to help people like you and me who are likely to soon buy one of these mounts.

Another point you should consider is that it's human nature not to admit to making a buying mistake. Personally, I purchased several dogs and it's something I don't like to talk about.


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pearlstar
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Al Canarelli]
      #3022919 - 04/03/09 10:15 PM

I am an astro novice. When I tried to buy a Christmas gift for my husband last year I came to look for help here at CN. A lot of people, including Steve Forbes, gave me advices and recommended IOptron. I finally bought the MiniTower from Telescopes.com. My husband was so happy and returned me a surprise of Garmin.
Besides one of the knobs was broken during the shipment, we had absolutely no problem with the MiniTower. By the way, after I contacted IOptron, they sent me the knob right away. I have learned a lot of stars and planets after I bought the MiniTower. Actually I played the MiniTower a lot with (sometimes without) my husband.
I am not up to the level to write a review; however, if I could, it got be a five star one.
I did read John's review, and am sorry for his bad experience. I just want to let others know, there are also happy customers.
Pearl


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Lane
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: pearlstar]
      #3022992 - 04/03/09 11:10 PM

I don't think anyone out here is saying there is anything wrong with an iOptron mount, just saying the Quality Control is not very good. If a mythical company produces 1 out 10 mounts that fail to work then that is a problem for the 1 person that got the bad mount. It doesn't matter if the other 9 people say they had no problems, 1 out of 10 would still represent terrible quality control. Now we don't really know what the percentage of bad mounts is for iOptron, but the author of the original review got two bad mounts in a row. Statistically the odds of that would have to be pretty darn low unless there is a quality control issue. Then there is the fact that the gentleman from Trapezium is making money by inspecting and repairing the iOptron mount before ever shipping it to a client. He isn't doing that for any other mounts just for the iOptron.

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Charlie HeinAdministrator
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Lane]
      #3023021 - 04/03/09 11:29 PM

Easy folks, let's keep it friendly - like, okay?

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Al Canarelli
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #3023055 - 04/03/09 11:55 PM

Then there is the fact that the gentleman from Trapezium is making money by inspecting and repairing the iOptron mount before ever shipping it to a client. He isn't doing that for any other mounts just for the iOptron.
============================================================
Your statement is not entirely true. Trapezium is not repairing Ioptron mounts, they are testing them. Those which are found to be faulty are rejected and sent back to Ioptron. All others are tuned or super tuned. Either way the customer/client is assured of getting a Mini Tower which works out of the box and is tuned for best performance. It's a lot better (from the consumer's point of view) to buy this way than to take pot luck.


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Lane
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Al Canarelli]
      #3023150 - 04/04/09 12:59 AM

I agree with that AL, I just think it would better for iOptron to hire someone like this to do that same testing at their plant. Then tack on $50 a mount if they need to cover the salary. It sure beats giving themselves a bad reputation. But if I go ahead and get one of these as I had planned to do I will definitely be getting it through trapezium.

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NotThePainter
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Al Canarelli]
      #3023336 - 04/04/09 06:47 AM

Quote:

Then there is the fact that the gentleman from Trapezium is making money by inspecting and repairing the iOptron mount before ever shipping it to a client. He isn't doing that for any other mounts just for the iOptron.




I think I may be misquoting here, not sure Al said the above, sorry if that is the case.

The reason that Steve is doing this ONLY for the iOptron mounts is that those are the ONLY mounts he sells.

I know him personally and I'm quite confident that if he sold a mount from another company he would do the same. He is a man of great honor, that's why he is my friend, I initially met him buying used gear online and a good friendship has developed from that time.

And for the full disclaimer, I designed and maintained Trapezium's web site (at least the old one, the new one is coming soon!) but I've done this "pro bono" which is Latin for Steve doesn't pay me but he buys the first round when we meet up.

Paul


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NHRob
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Lane]
      #3023439 - 04/04/09 09:16 AM

They should be thankful .. his efforts help get working iOptron products in customers hands. If not, there would be more "stinkers" out there, with all the ensuing negative karma that would go with it, and damaged reputation.

Rob



Quote:

Right across from the iOptron booth, I wonder if it bothers them to have him sitting there as a constant reminder to them that their QA sucks.




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Wes James
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: NHRob]
      #3023497 - 04/04/09 09:55 AM

Steve is doing this with the iOptron Mini Towers in the same manner that Clay does supertunes on the Meade mounts, and that is looked at as a positive thing, not a negative thing. He does this in 2 stages, one is a going through/cleaning/degreasing/adjusting/testing, the 2nd stage is replacing the bearings with roller bearings, further upgrades.
I, for one, think this is a wonderful offering. It is not infrequent that a product is offered that is basically a very good product with some shortcomings due to production, cost considerations, labor sources, whatever. To then be able to have all the bugs taken out- and end up with a truly outstanding product I think is a great thing. Steve is to be commended for his offerings, and I have spoken to him on a couple of occasions; I hope to be purchasing one of these supertuned mounts from him in the future.
The same concept sure made a lot of money and fame for Carrol Shelby...
.. of course, we're talking inexpensive telescope mounts here, not Mustangs!


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Al Canarelli
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Wes James]
      #3023631 - 04/04/09 11:11 AM

They should be thankful .. his efforts help get working iOptron products in customers hands. If not, there would be more "stinkers" out there, with all the ensuing negative karma that would go with it, and damaged reputation.

Rob
============================================================
Steve Forbes offers this service not only to his clients but also to Ioptron, who is 100% behind Steve's efforts, I am told. So actually, he is helping Ioptron iron out the wrinkles BEFORE the product reaches the consumer. Also, and this is VERY IMPORTANT, if you should have a warranty problem with any Mini Tower sold by Trapezium during the regular warranty period, (2 years) you would send it back to Trapezium (not Ioptron) for repair/correction. This point is not only unusual, it's also very nice.

By the way, I originally wanted a CubePro but I was quickly advised against this...and I listened. Then after reading the latest review, I thought to give up on Ioptron all together...until I heard about Trapezium and Steve Forbes. I've decided now to buy a Mini Tower and I will buy it from Trapezium at NEAF in a few weeks.


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brooster
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Al Canarelli]
      #3023878 - 04/04/09 01:22 PM

The pics in the review show the mount on a wooden deck. I would not think that a wooden deck would be that stable.

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pearlstar
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Al Canarelli]
      #3023929 - 04/04/09 01:54 PM

I would like to add on IOptron’s customer service and tech support with my personal experience. As I mentioned, I am a newbie and had a lot of communications with their tech support by email in the past months. Every time I got almost instant response and help no matter in the weekends or evenings. I have experiences with many companies in different industries about support or service, IOptron is among the best. John did not receive a call back as the technician promised; I really want to hear from IOptron what is going on, and is it the same company I put a lot of trust and hope on?

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jim_m
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: pearlstar]
      #3024063 - 04/04/09 03:30 PM

Hi,
Sorry, but can not resist "putting my $0.02 worth in.
I was an early purchaser of the MiniTower for the simple reason that I was getting too old to drag the "heavy stuff around.Needed somethig light and stable, MiniTower fit the bill nicely.
When I first got it, I had problems with "cord wrap" and a little "jerkyness". Ioptron said I should update the Firmware. That took care of both problems.The other problem I had was the tripod, a real joke.It might be O K on flat and even bases, but in grass or uneven surfaces, it did not cut it.I bought a light weight contractors tripod and did a little re-work so the MiniTower could be mounted and retain its function.
It is a great mount, but plan to re-mount it if you will use it on an uneven surface area.It is about as much "bang for the buck" you are going to find.
I also noticed the deck, wonder how much "jerkyness" was movement?
Jim


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Luigi
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: pearlstar]
      #3024064 - 04/04/09 03:30 PM

>>> It seems the majority of positive comments are by owners of the mount, and the majority of negative comments ...<<<

Simple. If you chose to buy something you believe you had good judgement and sing it praises. If you chose not to buy it you also believe you had good judgement and are happy to expound on all its flaws.


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Al Canarelli
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Luigi]
      #3024127 - 04/04/09 04:26 PM

Simple. If you chose to buy something you believe you had good judgement and sing it praises. If you chose not to buy it you also believe you had good judgement and are happy to expound on all its flaws.
============================================================
I would agree with you on your basic point, but there are a bunch of owners in this very thread (not to mention the author of the review) who are owners of this mount and had problems. Personally, I'm very happy for having read this thread and that review, as both have modified my buying intention of this mount. I'm still going to buy an Ioptron but it will be a Mini Tower and I'm not buying it from any old dealer who gives me the best price.


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dpastern
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Peter King]
      #3024353 - 04/04/09 06:51 PM

Well, as I've said elsewhere, I'm not one for giving $$$ to manufacturer's with poor QA. Sure, some might be good, and you might get a good one and be happy with it, but what about those who get duds?

GPS issues? If they know about it, then the problem *should* be damn well fixed BEFORE it leaves the factory - no excuses.

Resellers shouldn't have to be stripping down the mount etc etc to solve issues either. That tells me that the mounts are leaving the factory in not such a good shape, and it also invalidates the warranty I might add.

Dave


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Pedestal
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: dpastern]
      #3024427 - 04/04/09 07:35 PM

Some general comments and questions. As far as I know, the only other GOTO mount in this price class is an ASGT. Which does not have internal GPS, it should be noted. However, it is a proven product, backed by a known warrenty setup. I guess my first question would be, why choose the Ioptron over an ASGT? Is it lighter/smaller? Advantages of one over the other? It does have a good "look" to it, but thats just my opinion.
Also, I would like to note that I purchased one of the early "Cubes" in their introductory promo sale. I did have to send the first unit back, (sorry, don't remember now what the problem was) But Ioptron sent the replacement unit BEFORE I sent the old unit back. That's difficult to fault. I bought the mount for my B-in-L, to use with a WO 66mm Petzval. It has turned out to be an ideal combo. There definetly was a hand controller learning curve, where I was probably more hinderance than help, being more familar with Celestron/Meade GOTO units.
Hubert


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Al Canarelli
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Pedestal]
      #3024753 - 04/04/09 11:11 PM

Some general comments and questions. As far as I know, the only other GOTO mount in this price class is an ASGT. Which does not have internal GPS, it should be noted. However, it is a proven product, backed by a known warrenty setup. I guess my first question would be, why choose the Ioptron over an ASGT? Is it lighter/smaller? Advantages of one over the other? It does have a good "look" to it, but thats just my opinion.
============================================================
Actually the ASGT is not really in the same price class of the Mini Mount. At a retail price between $550 and $600, it is clearly in a lower price class, maybe the price of a CubePro rather than a Mini Mount. While the ASGT does not have an internal GPS, it does have several features which the Mini Mount does not have...

*More payload capacity
*2" tubular legs offering enhanced stability
*Equatorial mount
*Extreme reliability

I already own a Celestron ASGT and believe it's a wonderful mount for the money. Probably one of the best buys in astronomy. In spite of this, I intend to buy a Mini Tower. My reason for buying is simply light weight and compact design, nothing else. Once the wrinkles are ironed out of this mount, it will be hard to beat.


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Jimyw123
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: brooster]
      #3024777 - 04/04/09 11:28 PM

Quote:

The pics in the review show the mount on a wooden deck. I would not think that a wooden deck would be that stable.




I also had the same question when saw the mount was set on a wooden deck. I did set mine on deck for normal observation, and a couple of times went to 200X power. I recall no jerkiness in normal use, but at 200X my CCD display on my laptop did move sometimes. I don't know what magnitude of jerkiness John experienced; it is worth to test on a driveway or a hard isolated slab.

Another thing I would like to share is about the "to park position." John mentioned “I pushed “to park position,” and waited for the motors to engage as the manual said they would. Nothing happened. So, I manually aligned the scope in a vertical position, using a level to ensure precision, pushed "to park position" again, and shut the power off.” Actually I would not expect the motor move if the first thing was “to park position” when power on. The initial (default) position when power on is park position no matter whether it actually is. If after slew and then to park position, I bet the motor would move.


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Astrobuddy
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Jimyw123]
      #3025546 - 04/05/09 12:06 PM

Quote:

Another thing I would like to share is about the "to park position." John mentioned “I pushed “to park position,” and waited for the motors to engage as the manual said they would. Nothing happened. So, I manually aligned the scope in a vertical position, using a level to ensure precision, pushed "to park position" again, and shut the power off.” Actually I would not expect the motor move if the first thing was “to park position” when power on. The initial (default) position when power on is park position no matter whether it actually is. If after slew and then to park position, I bet the motor would move.




Yes,the initial position is park position when turn on the unit. I always park the mount before power off. Whenever I start a new session, the mount will right be at work. Otherwise, the OTA might point to the ground when slewed to the sky.


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watcher
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Astrobuddy]
      #3026455 - 04/05/09 07:46 PM

I know iOptron has at least 1 moron working in their assembly department. My GOTONOVA RA motor is attatched with 3 screws. 2 out of 3 of the screw holes were stripped, and the gear placed on the unit like there was nothing wrong. I've done that type of assembly work before. There's no way whoever assembled my unit didn't know that he or she messed up.

Joe


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NotThePainter
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: watcher]
      #3026798 - 04/05/09 11:22 PM

Re: ASGT vs Mini Tower

I own both of them. I've barely used my MT because it is so new to me, but I've had my ASGT for quite a long time. I did something today that my ASGT could never do. I set it up, rough guessing where South was (North for the ASGT obviously), slewed to the Sun. Then manually slewed to the Sun, then sync'd on the Sun.

Then we slewed to Capella and it was in the FOV about 2/3rds of a degree from center. The ASGT can't dream of doing that. Don't get me wrong, I love my ASGT, but the MT is a fine piece of equipment at least with regards to initial GoTos. I know that after 2 alignment stars and 2 calibration stars that the ASGT will be dead nuts on. But frankly, the MT impresses me out of the box. More to come late when I actually finally get to USE it!

Oh, the MT did one more thing next that the ASGT couldn't do. My 15 year old daughter and I packed everything up and carried it all to the basement ... in one trip! I had the C8, MT case and solar filter, she had the tripod in its box, the eyepiece case and the C8 accessory case.

Paul


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jrbarnett
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: NotThePainter]
      #3027500 - 04/06/09 11:15 AM

How does the iOptron MT stack up to the Vixen Skypod?

The latter comes with a 5-year warranty, but I've read that Starbook is a work-in-progress.

Regards,

Jim


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sam32
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Dr Benway]
      #3028025 - 04/06/09 03:33 PM

John,

I also have a MT but haven't yet tried to use it for AP. With respect to field rotation, doesn't it matter where you are pointing in the sky ? I mean if your target is closer to the NCP, wouldn't you be able to shoot for somewhat longer than 56 seconds ?

Thanks,

Sam


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J_D_Metzger
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: sam32]
      #3028207 - 04/06/09 04:50 PM

iOptron has posted a statement in response to the review on the iOptron Yahoo Group:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ioptron/message/3286


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Dr Benway
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: sam32]
      #3028301 - 04/06/09 05:38 PM

Sam,

You are probably right about being near NCP. I noticed that I can't shoot 56 seconds at Zenith. I have a slight circular star track pattern. I have found halfway between horizon and zenith works well. I might be able to push beyond 56 on a subject like M81 M82. Steve has finished the prototype stage on the wedge project and it will be manufactured by ADM in the near future. All I really need is 2 minutes unguided, so I think the wedge will work fine for me.

John


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hudson_yak
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: sam32]
      #3028315 - 04/06/09 05:42 PM

Quote:

I also have a MT but haven't yet tried to use it for AP. With respect to field rotation, doesn't it matter where you are pointing in the sky ? I mean if your target is closer to the NCP, wouldn't you be able to shoot for somewhat longer than 56 seconds ?





Don't want to sidetrack this thread too much, but I was interested in the answer to this and found this good web page. It's complicated but the short answer is the least rotation happens when pointing straight East or West and the lower altitude the better.

Mike


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Dan Duriscoe
newbie


Reged: 10/25/07

Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: J_D_Metzger]
      #3028394 - 04/06/09 06:22 PM

Purchased the Mini Tower in November for our program. My first evaluation was somewhat lukewarm, and favor the Nexstar series. Yesterday I was prompted to re-visit the Mini Tower, so I took it completely apart. What I found surprised me, thought folks on this thread might be interested:

The tapered roller bearing design for BOTH axes is so simple and elegant it is amazing no other manufacturer has come up with this before now (this is 1940s technology). This is a bomb-proof way to carry weight and have smooth motion in both axes for many years to come.

The worm and worm gear design for both axes is pretty good. Both worm gears are manually clutched which is great--however adjusting these "clamping screws" is not trivial, especially the altitude clamp. It desparately needs more leverage and a locking device for those who want to use the mount manually (without the motors or GOTO features), which is something this mount could really excel at.

The nylon gear and motor blocks (which also carry the bronze worms) seem very under-designed and prone to wear. The fact that there is a company advertizing "tune-ups" for this mount speak to the fact that it does and will require "tune-ups" in the future, primarily because of this motor and gearbox design, I believe.

The gearboxes are mated to the worm gears with an ingenious spring design which takes up any play between the worm and worm gear. The nylon block is allowed to pivot and "float", with the spring forcing the worm against the worm gear. Metal stops at each side of the block (which are adjustable, and will probably need to be adjusted after some wear occurs) prevent backlash from left to right motion of the whole block. The nylon bearings for the worm shaft itself, however, seem under-designed and will probably wear with time.

The software has some very nice features, but also is in a growning pain stage. If this company survives, and responds to comments from its users, this is bound to improve with time. Communication with the Mini Tower via the iOptron ASCOM driver I have found frustrating. The Astro-Physics driver seems to work better in some cases. I hope a more complete set of commands will eventually become available. Also, I find the claim of 1 arc minute pointing accuracy, even when painstakingly aligned, some what overly optimistic. 5 arc minutes is more reasonable, but still VERY good for a portable mass produced mount.

The noise and jerkiness of the drive is a real issue. If you are annoyed by squealing and purring noises that seem to be random while observing, this is not the mount for you. If you observe at very high magnifications often, a German Equatorial is probably a better choice anyway.

In summary, the smoothness and durability of the tapered roller bearing design, with adjustable bearing preload available to the user, and the ability to take it apart, clean it, and re-grease it when necessary, all this in a very small and realtively lightweight space, is this mount's most endearing feature. It resembles a high quality surveyor's theodolite in this regard. However, the drives, software, and computer interface have some room for improvement. Also, if the clutches could be locked in a "semi-slip" position and stay there, this mount would rival the smoothest Dobsonian design for an untracked "just push it around and look" mount, and would provide an ideal platform for two small RFTs or a pair of big binoculars.


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Wes James
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Re: Ioptron Mini tower _ New Review is Unsettling new [Re: Dan Duriscoe]
      #3029359 - 04/07/09 08:30 AM

I read iOptron's reply on the Yahoo forum... and I myself wrote them a letter yesterday- and received a very similar reply. At least the company is responsive. I hope they take these criticism's to heart and correct problems as they are noted. Their responsiveness certainly is better than some of the major players, and that I find heartening. I'd rather deal with a company like that- where they are at least interested in their customers- and responsive- rather than a company who totally ignores problems like this- and their customers complaints.
Wes


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