Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
#3021507 - 04/03/09 08:16 AM
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OK, so I *just* got my "Daleen" email from AP on the Mach1GTO...
And, I'm SERIOUSLY torn here... I mean Seriously... Looks like with all the "stuff" I'd need to pier/permanent mount in WSO would be about $6600 before shipping. (no tripod/pier for now - just use my existing pier).
I'm currently mounted up with a Vixen R200CF (Converted R200SS to Carbon Fiber by Bobby McCourt!) - even with the Motorized Feathertouch it's weight is only about 14#. Not bad for a 200mm F4 scope.
The other scope is a TMB80 Signature f6.3 Triplet APO.
Currently, on my CGE they are mounted side-by-side. I'm NOT married to SBS setups, though it'd be nice to just replicate over on the Mach1GTO...
I would want to be able to have both of these scopes mounted, perhaps piggyback (the R200CF uses VERY solid Parallax Rings, so going on top there would still be rigid), as that might save some weight?
I also want to be able to use my STV eFinder for guiding, so that has to go on top of one of the scopes, or off to the side somewhere - when I'm NOT using it in one of the main scopes for guiding, anyways. (Right now its mounted on top of the Vixen Rings with a ADM plate, and the TMB is mounted to the side of the Vixen.
I'd probably mostly have the setup with my (soon coming) QHY8 in one scope, and my Mallincam in the other. This is NOT primarily a visual setup. Neither are seriously heavy (around a pound or so each).
So here's the questions:
1) For AP, do you all think this load would work? Right now I'm fully balanced using 36# of CW on the CGE about 1/2 way out, but I have a LOT of extra mounting hardware weight in the ADM CGE SBS Setup, etc... The Mach1GTO is rated to 45#... will this work for AP in your experience?
2) I already have TheSky, CCDsoft, @Focus, etc... those will all "just work" right? (I also have a 4 port Serial replicator)...
3) If I'm not planning on going "bigger/heavier" on scopes, is there ANY reason this would not be a killer "upgrade"?
OR
Should I buy Jason's MI-250 for slightly less money????
Any/all thoughts more than welcome!
Thanks in advance for your experience and advice!
clear enough skies
Edited by Bowmoreman (04/03/09 08:34 AM)
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3021664 - 04/03/09 10:14 AM
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Hey David...perplexing, indeed. I'm a bit prejudiced, but the 250 will give you a lot more fudge factor if you decided to get something like a 12" or 14" SC or a big refractor. The Mach I is arguably the best mount in its weight class. 
For what you have now, the Mach I will be terrific. BUT...as we all know about human nature and astronomy, we are always looking for something different. As you've already discussed with yourself, it depends on future considerations. I'd go with the 250, but just remember who's recommending this. It's a very accurate and sturdy mount. It doesn't have the name recognition, but that's not why we buy this stuff.
Good luck! It's an enviable position, indeed!
David
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mnaf
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/03/06
Loc: Bay Area, CA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: David Pavlich]
#3021801 - 04/03/09 11:38 AM
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Although I'm partial to the Mach1  ...
Another way to look at it - if you get the Mach1 and then down the road decide you need more capacity, the resale/trade value will probably be to your benefit (despite reduced wait times in the future).
Admittedly, I don't know much about the MI250 though.
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f29pc
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/23/05
Loc: Maine
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: David Pavlich]
#3021822 - 04/03/09 11:47 AM
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" 1) For AP, do you all think this load would work? Right now I'm fully balanced using 36# of CW on the CGE about 1/2 way out, but I have a LOT of extra mounting hardware weight in the ADM CGE SBS Setup, etc... The Mach1GTO is rated to 45#... will this work for AP in your experience? "
I have followed the rule of thumb of using 1/2 of the rated weight for astrophotography (or at least try to). You are correct about the acc. weight adding up fast. I, like David own an MI-250, so I am biased. If you can get an MI 250 for a good price, get it and you wont think about a weight problem with your current setup (and it allows you to grow) Larry is now offering an upgrade to the latest mods for older mounts at a very reasonable cost, and the mount would be "as new". The Mach1GTO is a fine mount and AP is a great company, My MI 250 is a 2004 vintage, I bought it used and it is still rock solid. I have had up to a 70 lb imaging setup on it (don’t tell Larry, it was one of those, “hold my beer I’m going to try something” nights! ) and the mount purred along just fine with great results. I wouldn’t run it every night that way, but it was good to know what it was capable of.
Paul
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: f29pc]
#3021884 - 04/03/09 12:13 PM
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Thanks for the first round of feedback, guys! Keep it coming!
Some additional questions that occur to me after doing some more research on the MI250...
How complex/difficult is it to integrate Gemini to TheSky, CCDsoft, @Focus, SBIG STV, etc... in other words what do I need to integrate my current HW/SW to it? Am I pretty much all set (I've got a 4 port Serial replicator if/when I need one)...
As long as I can:
1) control/auto-focus my FeatherTouch Digital Motor system
2) auto-guide using my STV
3) integrate with whatever software I'll end us using with the QHY8 (which I know uses Nebulosity and Maxim, but I would love to know from anyone if it could use CCDSoft - yeah slightly off topic, but...)
Then I'm "good to go" either way on this decision... I already know I can integrate the AP with CCDSoft and TheSky...
I'm a "Gemini noob" though...
Oh, the decisions!
clear enough skies and THANKS (again) and in advance
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RAKing
Postmaster
Reged: 12/28/07
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3022014 - 04/03/09 01:27 PM
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Dave,
I love my Gemini, even though some people complain about having to push the same button multiple times, etc. You can download the manual here Gemini V4 and it should give you some of those connectivity answers. I have been told connecting a PDA is a snap, but since I don't have a PDA I haven't tried it. That's one reason I'm going to NEAF again. 
I guess my question back to you is why a Mach1 and not a 900GTO? Your CGE has a lot more capacity and I would think a 900 is a better match. Saying that, I guess I would then tilt toward the MI250. There's no denying A-P quality, but MI is no slouch, either.
Tough call, but you win either way. 
Ron
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EricCCD
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/14/04
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3022024 - 04/03/09 01:35 PM
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Hi Dave,
Nice position to be in!
I believe the Mach1's 45 pound rating is for imaging. Roland tested a Mach1 with an AP160 and STL-11000 on it (to answer a recent question on the ap-gto group regarding the Mach1's capacity), and it did so without breaking a sweat.
I have an AP1200 - okay, a different story on the capacity front <G>, but on the interface front, I had no learning curve to deal with as far as my software interfaces went (Maxim, TheSky6, FocusMax, CCDAutopilot - now, I don't think I have FocusMax interfacing with my mount...). This was from a Takahashi EM200. The only switching I had to do was in TheSky6, where I would tell it what mount I was connecting to.
Now... if you're thinking MI-250 anyway... I have no experience with them, but I have heard only accolades about it as well. It may be worth considering overall. Why?
While the Mach1 is rated at 45 pounds for imaging, I don't know how far you can stretch it for visual. While the general rule of thumb for medium to low end mounts is "imaging load is half the stated capacity", I have not heard of people with high-end mounts attempting to use their mounts at double the stated capacity for visual (e.g., 70 pounds on a Takahashi EM200).
So bottom line, with the Mach1 you are moving from a somewhat higher-capacity mount (CGE) to a lower one (arguable, but let's stick to stated capacities for now). With the MI-250, you will be set for future OTA "upgrades" <G>.
Let me put it this way: when I got my EM200, it was for imaging with an FS-102. And that was a stretch from an EM-10. Knowing the extra capacity of the EM200 had me dreaming about putting something heavier on that mount
And the AP1200? Don't get me started on that as far as what I'd like to put on it. Hint: it's currently got a Mewlon 210 and a TMB130SS on it 
Eric
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Doug Sanqunetti
sage
Reged: 12/19/05
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3022071 - 04/03/09 01:52 PM
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Hi Dave,
I am another MI-250 mount owner and I really enjoy the mount. I use most of the software you mentioned while imaging. Here is the list:
1) CCDCommander to automate image acquisition. Works with TheSky6, CCDSoft, FocusMax, Pinpoint, etc to automate the process of imaging. I don't have a permenant setup and this software really helps me be productive in the short time I have to image.
2) CCDSoft for camera control
3) The Pinpoint astrometric engine to do plate solving. CCDCommander works with Pinpoint to automatically plate solve after a slew to find the exact position and then do a final centering slew automatically. CCDCommander/Pinpoint puts the object in the center of the chip every time. This is important to me because I don't have a permenant setup and don't want to build a large pointing model every time I set up.
4) Focusmax to control a Starizona microtouch focuser. This unit uses the same feathertouch focus motors built by starlight instruments.
5) TheSky6 with the gemini ASCOM driver to control the mount
6) SBIG ST402ME as an autoguider. I am using the camera autoguide port connected directly to the mounts autoguide port. This should also work with the STV. Some older Gemini units may need an additional isolators (relays) in the connection.
I am also using a AirCable bluetooth wireless serial adapter to control the mount. This frees up a serial port if you need it. I have a serial port on my laptop but don't use it becuase I have the bluetooth adapter. Everything is better with bluetooth! :-)
http://www.dougsastro.net/Equipment/MI250.php
Best Regards Doug
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LLEEGE
True Blue
Reged: 03/03/05
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: EricCCD]
#3022077 - 04/03/09 01:54 PM
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The Mach 1 will handle your current load, no problem. The MI250 will give you room to grow. Tough choice. All AP gear includes shipping so no added costs there. Your current pier/tripod for the CGE will carry it. The Mach1 will be much more portable. If it were me, I'd consider the MI250 and buy a CGEM for a portable rig.
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Peds
sage
Reged: 03/07/07
Loc: Brasília, Brazil
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: LLEEGE]
#3022181 - 04/03/09 02:52 PM
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I recently received Daleen's email as well... but I had to pass! 
P.
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hersey0308
super member
Reged: 12/04/08
Loc: Ontario Canada
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3022755 - 04/03/09 08:33 PM
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hi gang - I have seen these issues first hand and bowmoreman is going through his "exponential growth" phase. the prescription calls for the MI-250 to carry that honking RC that is right around the corner. try not to worry about the gemini system. there are lots of us here who would be happy to help.
i love these mount dilemmas.
david
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bdjeep
sage
Reged: 01/29/07
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: hersey0308]
#3023485 - 04/04/09 09:48 AM
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Dave,
I tend to agree with the other posters. It sounds as if the software/connectivity problems with the MI-250 are solvable. It comes down to capacity and quality. Mach1 may edge out on quality, but will you be able to resist that super deal on a used C14/hyperstar, "honking" RC, or whatever else pops up? If not, then get the MI-250 and sleep better at night.
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: bdjeep]
#3023581 - 04/04/09 10:40 AM
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Thanks for all the guidance AND valuable MI250 info, guys...
Thursday, we closed a good sized SW sale to a customer in England (we hadn't closed a deal since December and I was feelin - conservative)... But now I'm worrying a tad less...
So...
I've decided to go for the MI250... I just can't see spending an incremental 5K for LESS capacity, no matter the quality. With the MI250 its only an incremental 3K depending on what I get for the CGE rig...
And the MI250 has similar PE and quality to the AP... and a lot more capacity.
Since eventually this WSO setup is going to be a C14 Hyperstar ... it just makes sense to go this way.
Told Jason last night I was going for it.
You'll see an ad for a CGE + stuff shortly
(maybe I'll find a buyer what wants it delivered at NEAF and then I'll HAVE to go - "message to wife")
I'm SO excited... I feel like a kid.
clear enough skies
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3023606 - 04/04/09 10:53 AM
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You made the right choice!  I was going to PM you to discuss this decision further, but....no need! And, as Paul pointed out, you can always send it back to Larry and have the upgrades made to bring it up to 2009 specs and that includes the new 85lb capacity. 
David
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LLEEGE
True Blue
Reged: 03/03/05
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3023608 - 04/04/09 10:54 AM
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Congrats. I think you made the right choice.
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Jason Glass
sage
Reged: 06/27/05
Loc: 36°33'9.19"N, 86°40'7.36"W
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: David Pavlich]
#3023753 - 04/04/09 12:19 PM
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Hi Guys,
Thanks a million for sharing your opinions on the MI-250 here. Dave and I have been in touch via email and I'm looking forward to chatting with him on Monday.
I have a question about the load capacity. I've followed the developments on the new version, and I was confused when Larry wrote that the capacity has increased to 85 lbs. When I did my research on the mount before buying it from Bobby, all the references that I found at that time said that the mount handles 85 lbs. I've put 55 lbs. on it and it slewed it around like a feather.
So, what is the actual rating for the 2003 version? Anybody know? 
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Jason Glass]
#3023900 - 04/04/09 01:33 PM
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Hey, Jason...Larry used to have a sort of variable weight limit according to the OTA. with 70lbs being the median. Then it was 70lbs. Now it's 85 due to a new base.
This mount will easily handle 70lbs of imaging gear. It's just a very robust piece of hardware.
David
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Loc: Brooker, FL
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: David Pavlich]
#3024670 - 04/04/09 10:12 PM
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Dave, you'll be delighted with that mount - that was what I intended to get (I know three imagers who are very pleased with theirs) until the NJP, whose prior owners I know, showed up locally.
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Rusty]
#3024695 - 04/04/09 10:33 PM
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Thanks, guys... I've wanted something "of that class" ever since I started with my Sphinx (no slouch, mind you, but NOT in that weight or PE class obviously)... been on the AP list for 3 years now...
came up last year, just wasn't in any position to act...
came up this year... and, well Jason's MI250 was available...
Sometimes I guess in this hobby we have to be patient (patience? really?? tell me it ain't so!)...
I can't wait to really get serious with imaging... the Mallincam has really whetted my appetite... but I just always found the ST237A too narrow (and slow on the downloads) for my relative lack of patience (and optics/mount at THAT time)... then got the MCHP and just go so lost in the coolness there (with the CGE and the R200CF) that never went back to trying AP...
Now, though, with a mount that is +/- 3arc sec PE... and a large chip CCD; it should be a lot easier and more fun. I'm suffering NO delusions, though...
but 800mm f/l (or 600 on the TMB) and f4 (or f6) guiding with an STV and using an MI250... has got to be far easier than it was trying the old f9/900mm Vixen with an ST237A on a Sphinx -
I'm pretty excited by this upgrade, frankly.
clear enough skies
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3024751 - 04/04/09 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Thanks, guys... I've wanted something "of that class" ever since I started with my Sphinx (no slouch, mind you, but NOT in that weight or PE class obviously)... been on the AP list for 3 years now...
came up last year, just wasn't in any position to act...
came up this year... and, well Jason's MI250 was available...
Sometimes I guess in this hobby we have to be patient (patience? really?? tell me it ain't so!)...
I can't wait to really get serious with imaging... the Mallincam has really whetted my appetite... but I just always found the ST237A too narrow (and slow on the downloads) for my relative lack of patience (and optics/mount at THAT time)... then got the MCHP and just go so lost in the coolness there (with the CGE and the R200CF) that never went back to trying AP...
Now, though, with a mount that is +/- 3arc sec PE... and a large chip CCD; it should be a lot easier and more fun. I'm suffering NO delusions, though...
but 800mm f/l (or 600 on the TMB) and f4 (or f6) guiding with an STV and using an MI250... has got to be far easier than it was trying the old f9/900mm Vixen with an ST237A on a Sphinx -
I'm pretty excited by this upgrade, frankly.
clear enough skies
Heck, I'm guiding with an SSAG through a homemade guider made from an 8X50 finder scope. I haven't tried it at f10, but it works just fine at f6.8. You will have NO problem once you get 'er polar aligned.
David
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: David Pavlich]
#3026598 - 04/05/09 09:17 PM
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I'm like a kid in the candy shop... or the night before Christmas..
I spent all day today measuring, thinking about the mounting on my pier, etc...
frankly...
Can't WAIT...
Yikes, is it always like this? ... a world class mount, world class waiting and anticipation?
Guess, I'm answering Daleen's email tomorrow, huh?
That would be good news for those below me on the Mach1GTO list, I guess...
clear enough skies
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3026649 - 04/05/09 09:42 PM
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So...
I have a Dan's Pier plate for my CGE (to adapt to my Pier)... what is needed (from those of you w/ MI250) to connect from a pier to the base...
I've browsed Larry's site, but am hoping I don't have to "drill" my pier top surface... anyone else upgraded from CGE to MI-250? Thoughts?
clear enough skies
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Jason Glass
sage
Reged: 06/27/05
Loc: 36°33'9.19"N, 86°40'7.36"W
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3026754 - 04/05/09 10:52 PM
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Hi Dave,
I'm including a spare MI-250 azimuth plate (courtesy of Bobby from our deal), so all you have to do is drill it to match the holes in your Dan's plate and bolt them together, swapping it with the plate that's on the mount right now. You can leave your Dan's plate and the plate that's installed on the mount unaltered and factory-fresh for resale. You could alternatively drill the spare MI-250 plate to engage your j-bolts directly.
Call me in the morning! 
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Jason Glass
sage
Reged: 06/27/05
Loc: 36°33'9.19"N, 86°40'7.36"W
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Jason Glass]
#3026786 - 04/05/09 11:12 PM
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Hi Dave,
I just found the technical drawings at Dan's Pier Plate website. Just give the word and I'll precisely drill and counterbore the spare plate in my machine shop. It will only take a couple of hours to do it right and you'll be all ready to rock, right out of the box.
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Jason Glass]
#3027055 - 04/06/09 04:21 AM
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Cool Jason! Talk about service!
Note: I have the "CGE Adapter Plate" from the CGE Adapter Kit only ... I.e I do NOT have the 8" Pier Top Base Kit (i.e. that bottom plate they show...)
My Pier holes are arranged in an equalateral triangle around that center hole you see in the diagram
So, my current pier top is a 12" square steel plate with holes arranged for Meade pattern, and the holes precisely align to the 4 needed for that CGE Adapter Plate...
Ideally, I'd be able to either:
a) re-use it - not sure how THAT would work, or
b) sell it when I sell the CGE...
I'll drop you a line this AM at some point (after 8:30 and hopefully before noon!)
clear enough skies
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3027142 - 04/06/09 07:13 AM
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Another question, MI-250ers!
I'm getting ready to put up the CGE rig for sale, and wanted to know if the MI250 can directly take the ADM Side-by-Side setup, or if it needs the ADM CGE SBS adapter?
I know the CGE needed it because otherwise it would be 90 degrees "off" when setting the limit switches...
Does the MI250 have a similar limitation, or can I "go direct" for side by side...??
Thanks again and clear enough skies
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f29pc
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/23/05
Loc: Maine
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3027168 - 04/06/09 07:43 AM
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Dave, you don't need the ADM CGE SBS adapter. The ADM SBS will mount directly on to the MI 250. THe MI 250 does not have limit switches.
Paul
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: f29pc]
#3027227 - 04/06/09 08:36 AM
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Perfect, thanks Paul... Now I can sell the CGE SBS at same time as the CGE!
clear enough skies
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Jason Glass
sage
Reged: 06/27/05
Loc: 36°33'9.19"N, 86°40'7.36"W
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3027346 - 04/06/09 09:55 AM
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Quote:
My Pier holes are arranged in an equalateral triangle around that center hole you see in the diagram
So, my current pier top is a 12" square steel plate with holes arranged for Meade pattern, and the holes precisely align to the 4 needed for that CGE Adapter Plate...
Ideally, I'd be able to either:
a) re-use it - not sure how THAT would work, or
b) sell it when I sell the CGE...
Hi Dave,
All I need to know is the diameter of the bolt circle on your base plate and how thick the plate is. Unfortunately, the diagram doesn't show that dimension.
You mention that the bolt pattern is Meade. Is it LX200 pattern? If so, I can measure my own LX200 tripod head for the dimensions (2.563"R).
You can most likely sell the adapter with your CGE and be done with it.
Edited by Jason Glass (04/06/09 10:28 AM)
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Jason Glass]
#3027900 - 04/06/09 02:32 PM
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Just so everyone knows... I've made the decision
I even copied my Wife on the email I sent back to Daleen saying "no" to a brandy new AP mount She is totally down with buying a better/more capable mount for less money, used... Likes the "used" concept!
Had great chat with Jason this AM, monies happen this PM, measurements so he can custom drill me a mounting plate happen this PM...
Did I mention what a great guy Jason is to deal with? He's customizing the mounting plate for MY pier needs! 
Folks, I'm now officially beside myself with glee anticipating an MI-250 arriving here at WSO in the not too distant future. How cool is THAT?  
I guess the Weather "Czars" must already know, 'cause the clouds started rolling in just after I finished finalizing with Jason this AM! And now it looks to be a week of solid clouds and rain on their way!  
Ah well... It'll be worth it.
Besides... I'll need the time to memorize the Gemini Manual! 
clear enough skies!
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Jason Glass]
#3027937 - 04/06/09 02:48 PM
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yep - Jason... they are 2.563" On center... (eyeballing it with my calipers they were slightly over 2.56 anyways!)...
I'm emailing you the other info.
Thanks again!
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3042018 - 04/13/09 05:40 PM
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Well... it arrives TOMORROW... and just look at my CSC for TONIGHT...
yep - tomorrow night is gonna stink... but I don't have the mount TONIGHT...
curse you, the curse!
Sheesh... it's in Shrewsbury MA (about 15 miles from here), getting all lonely and such, and I've got such good skies tonight, and... and...
It is so hard to wait!
clear enough skies
Edited by Bowmoreman (04/13/09 05:47 PM)
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3042245 - 04/13/09 07:55 PM
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Hey David...you're about to join a club that has some really terrific members! Can't wait to see some pictures of the new hardware.
David
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Trebor777
Hazy
Reged: 01/04/08
Loc: Connecticut - U.S.
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3042765 - 04/14/09 02:57 AM
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Well... it arrives TOMORROW... and just look at my CSC for TONIGHT...
yep - tomorrow night is gonna stink... but I don't have the mount TONIGHT...
curse you, the curse!
Sheesh... it's in Shrewsbury MA (about 15 miles from here), getting all lonely and such, and I've got such good skies tonight, and... and...
And that's why I'm happy I got your CGE. You care enough to think about if your mount in lonely.
I got a case coming for the CGE on Friday. Not the $300 one from Celestron, the $166 one from cases4less. The case is about the same size as the one specifially for the CGE, but it's 1" higher - which means it'll hold the new eyepiece tray I'm making for it.
I've had one clear night since last Thursday and it was windy. 16mph - gusts up to 40mph. Wasn't even worth it to go out - the story of us observstory-less people...
Congrats on your MI250..and speaking of weather. The M/Tues/W after NEAF - RAIN, RAIN & more RAIN...probably followed by WIND and clouds!
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bdjeep
sage
Reged: 01/29/07
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Trebor777]
#3043094 - 04/14/09 09:39 AM
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Congrats on the new mount. You didn't miss much last night. High clouds moved in from the south/east by 8pm despite the CSC prediction. With all the damage that will be done to people's wallets at NEAF, you may have to wait until summer to try it out.
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: bdjeep]
#3043378 - 04/14/09 12:30 PM
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Yep - noticed that Brian... they started coming in while I was playing catch with the boys - Little League is starting up and since I'm a coach, I gotta be limber TOO
Debated doing visual with my Dob, but wasn't feeling 100% and decided sleep was better!
Sheesh, this wait is killing me. Per UPS 157# of Mount gear was loaded on the Truck in Chelmsford and out for "Local Delivery" at 5:09AM...
My poor baby, sitting all cooped up in that nasty truck all day long (under blue skies of course!)... My usual delivery time is around 14:30... we'll see.
I'll need the hand truck to get some of it out back to WSO!
Of course, tonight will also be cloudy (even though yesterday and today were both crystal blue during the day)!!!
Enjoy NEAF! I can't go.... I have a little league practice I hafta do, and a "honey do" list a mile long after this last winter...
clear enough skies
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3043913 - 04/14/09 05:37 PM
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Yippee!!!!  
The MI250 has arrived! I've only unpacked 2 of the 4 boxes so far (had to get back in and get my financial stuffs to my accountant - ugh), but:
1) First off, Jason, sir! You did a fabulous job of packing this! all components shrink/saran wrapped to protect finish, then bubble wrapped individually, then packed in a box with HARD foam, cut to fit. Then THAT box wrapped again with bubble, inside an outer shipping box... Everything is in perfect condition!!!
This is a MODEL of proper packaging! Well done (wish I could give you 7 stars!)
2) This sucker is seriously well made! The counterweights are beautiful! This is heavy! It is a machining work of art!
I hope to get out back later tonight after dinner, etc, and at least get it initially physically setup... As you may imagine, just unpacking it is time consuming (but THAT is OK by me!)...
Eventually (tomorrow?) photos to follow!
clear enough skies
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f29pc
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/23/05
Loc: Maine
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3044428 - 04/14/09 10:49 PM
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Congrats on the mount!!!! I'll be working nights till NEAF, call if you need any help. You got the cell.
Have fun, Paul
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3044432 - 04/14/09 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Yippee!!!!
The MI250 has arrived! I've only unpacked 2 of the 4 boxes so far (had to get back in and get my financial stuffs to my accountant - ugh), but:
1) First off, Jason, sir! You did a fabulous job of packing this! all components shrink/saran wrapped to protect finish, then bubble wrapped individually, then packed in a box with HARD foam, cut to fit. Then THAT box wrapped again with bubble, inside an outer shipping box... Everything is in perfect condition!!!
This is a MODEL of proper packaging! Well done (wish I could give you 7 stars!)
2) This sucker is seriously well made! The counterweights are beautiful! This is heavy! It is a machining work of art!
I hope to get out back later tonight after dinner, etc, and at least get it initially physically setup... As you may imagine, just unpacking it is time consuming (but THAT is OK by me!)...
Eventually (tomorrow?) photos to follow!
clear enough skies
I told ya'! Larry is an artist. Someday, after your astro bank account is flush again, you need to send it to Larry to get all of the updates. I think he's charging $2000 for the upgrades, but it would make your mount more user friendly AND have more capacity.
However, get the thing mounted and enjoy. It's nothing but tracking nirvana.
David
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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/04/03
Loc: Frostbite Falls
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3044509 - 04/14/09 11:35 PM
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Methinks pouring a wee dram of Bowmore would be in order! Maybe wear a kilt to boot.
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Nebhunter]
#3044920 - 04/15/09 08:34 AM
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Methinks pouring a wee dram of Bowmore would be in order! Maybe wear a kilt to boot.
By Jove... He's "cracked me code"
did just that last night...
I've only got the plate and the RA Assembly mounted thus far... didn't have much time yesterday... will hopefully get the rest setup today/tonight -but today's a busy one as well (no doubt with an emergency visit to the post office as late in the day as possible!)
It is hard not to think about getting to USE this mount!
clear enough skies
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Trebor777
Hazy
Reged: 01/04/08
Loc: Connecticut - U.S.
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3044957 - 04/15/09 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Methinks pouring a wee dram of Bowmore would be in order! Maybe wear a kilt to boot.
By Jove... He's "cracked me code"
did just that last night...
I've only got the plate and the RA Assembly mounted thus far... didn't have much time yesterday... will hopefully get the rest setup today/tonight -but today's a busy one as well (no doubt with an emergency visit to the post office as late in the day as possible!)
It is hard not to think about getting to USE this mount!
clear enough skies
Congrats...And it looks like Thurs/Fri are nice and clear for ya.
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bdjeep
sage
Reged: 01/29/07
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Trebor777]
#3045035 - 04/15/09 09:59 AM
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Hey Dave,
It looks like your window of opportunity will be Thursday or Friday night. After that, NEAF followed by rain & clouds.
Unfortunately, I don't think the government will grant you an extension on your taxes because you got a new mount. It might be worth staying up late to get it all set up.
I managed to get a one day reprieve from my "honey do" list to do the marathon drive to/from NEAF in a day. Going to split the driving with a club member.
Enjoy the new mount...hopefully you'll get to try it under the stars this week.
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Jason Glass
sage
Reged: 06/27/05
Loc: 36°33'9.19"N, 86°40'7.36"W
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3045060 - 04/15/09 10:12 AM
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got the plate and the RA Assembly mounted thus far...
That's a relief! Did the plate to pier interface give you any trouble?
No matter how confident I am that I nailed the threaded hole locations in the azimuth plate to spec, I still feared that Murphy and his laws might show up at the party.
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Jason Glass]
#3045499 - 04/15/09 02:52 PM
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Murphy has left the building... no issues at all... took TIME to get the old plate off and the new one on, etc... wanted to be super careful...
fortunately it's pretty straightforwards to setup (thus far!)... I may have a free hour this afternoon to see if I can get it setup the rest of the way - hope so, cause my skies are starting to look better!
clear enough skies
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Jason Glass
sage
Reged: 06/27/05
Loc: 36°33'9.19"N, 86°40'7.36"W
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3045543 - 04/15/09 03:19 PM
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Hi Dave,
You know we're going to need some photos of her in her new home, right?
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LLEEGE
True Blue
Reged: 03/03/05
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Jason Glass]
#3046091 - 04/15/09 08:39 PM
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OK, I think we have waited long enough. Where's the pictures!?
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: LLEEGE]
#3046174 - 04/15/09 09:41 PM
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Well...
I've got good news... and bad news...
first the good news...
I found about 90 minutes this afternoon to go out and finish unpacking (gotta mention AGAIN that Jason, you REALLY know how to pack!!!) Took the entire 90 minutes to:
a) unpack the DEC and the Counterweight - the DEC was actually TRIPLE boxed
b) get the DEC mounted on the RA Axis
c) add counterweight
d) do an initial installation of, and side by side balancing of, the Vixen and TMB (with the piggyback mounted STV camera)... balancing an SBS rig is NOT easy, it's more iterative...
e) semi, re-pack all the packaging and boxes and transport them up to my 3rd floor attic. 5 Trips
The "bad news"?
1) ran outta time this afternoon - had to go and coach a little league practice from 5:45 to 7:45, then dinner, now bed - I'm getting a cold
2) Not going out tonight to finish (installation of Gemini and fire up, and then polar align... just too tired
3) No pictures (yet); Tomorrow, ok?
Once again, this is an unbelievably well made mount; every bit the quality of an AP (at least so far)... The machining is first rate, and the precision of all fitments is quite impressive.
I wasn't able to mount all 3 counterweights; even with them all the way up, I couldn't balance properly. So, only two on there, and they are pretty far up as it is! Which is too bad because man, oh man, are they beautiful...
The "overbuilt" nature of this thing must be seen to be experienced.
One thing I did notice, it is quite possible (mechanically) to move the DEC axis such that it can smack right into the RA motor - I presume there is some sort of control/limiting going on in the Gemini system to prevent this?
Wish for:
1) me getting over this cold
2) my CSC to STAY as it currently is
so that tomorrow can be the final setup and DEBUT!
clear enough skies
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3046236 - 04/15/09 10:39 PM
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It can smack the motor housing on the Dec. axis, so be careful. Larry said it can image about 40 minutes past the meridian. I've never done it, but I'm sure someone here has.
And we're giving you one additional day to get the pictures up... 
David
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f29pc
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/23/05
Loc: Maine
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: David Pavlich]
#3046279 - 04/15/09 11:04 PM
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Dave when you set up the Gemini, pay attention to the safety limits setting. When you select the MI 250 for the mount, they should (I said SHOULD) load automatically, but it's always worth a look. This is what will prevent the mount from slewing the motor into the mount, (and it will if the safety limits aren't set correctly). The mount can track about 40 min across the meridian, then the safety limit will stop the mount. I routinely image 15-20 min past the meridian, your balance has to be perfect to do this and get a good image.
If you don't have one already, Larry sells a Dec cable that has a 90 deg plug , that gives you a little more room below the Dec motor
Paul
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RAKing
Postmaster
Reged: 12/28/07
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3046636 - 04/16/09 07:35 AM
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Dave,
If you don't know this already, you can also tailor your own safety limits in the Gemini.
One of the nice things about this control system is you can go well past the meridian when imaging. That can also be one of those "heart stopping" moments with this control system.
You will definitely hold your breath the first time you watch your scope roll well past the meridian and come *this close* to the pier. 
Take care,
Ron
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: RAKing]
#3048709 - 04/17/09 09:18 AM Attachment (36 downloads)
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OK, guys... at long last a photo!
Last night was sorta frustrating. I wasn't totally thinking straight because of this nasty cold I've got... But, darn it, it was freaking clear out!
So, went out... got things all hooked up, etc... and then started to try and learn Gemini...
first, I manually aligned as close as I could on my TMB80SS to polaris (mechanically) having the scope in as close to 90 degrees as possible. I noticed that since I have an SBS setup, the helpful markings that MI put on the RA (and DEC) assembly don't line up, i.e. there isn't one for someone using native SBS. So, I had to eyeball the 90 degree "initial polar setup of RA and DEC axis.
anyways, with that part done, I then used the Alt and Az adjustments to get Polaris as centered as I could. These are much easier to use/adjust than the CGE in that there isn't any "backlash" when you tighten them down (on the CGE there's a bit of backlash/backcreep when you tighten the Alt locking bolts (Az was fine).
OK, so now to power on Gemini...
Got my location setup (Lat/Long), timezone, entered the time, etc...
Did my first Goto Bright star... The first one on the list that I knew was up, was Polaris... so selected it...
The mount slewed about 45 degees to the EAST (!) and pointed in general direction of Polaris (being under Cold Medicine at the time I gave this no thought)... So I then used the HC to get Polaris centered in the TMB... Then put in my 22T4 in the R200CF... not centered, so centered in THAT scope, then adjusted the TMB to match
Good now the scopes are parallel (again)!... At that point then aligned on Polaris...
Then tried another alignment star... no matter what I did I got the "Sorry" error... This was very frustrating...
So... at this point, I then decided to set the home position, and shut down.
Went in and READ the manual (some more)...
I discovered that I made two errors:
1) I entered my LOCAL time, not UTC time 
That would explain why it was looking for brightstars that wouldn't rise for 3-5 hours, huh?
2) I wasn't using the proper procedure to get to the next alignment star... stupid user error there.
Conclusions from first (sorta) light?
1) My goodness, but this is a solid, quiet, precision mount... the slews were so... PERFECT sounding 
2) Gemini is going to take some time, although it isn't too hard, just have to get used to it... it is QUITE logical (and comprehensive). I'm certainly going to LOVE having everything PERMANENT - I'd hate to do all this all the time (as, to be fair, I would have with my CGE - I'm LAZY)
3) I'm going to need to give some thought to cable management and mounting my anti-dew system... There's no convenient flat place to mount the Kendricks (like there was with the CGE)... Not a big deal, just needs some thought
Can't wait to get out tonight and SET THE TIME RIGHT!
As you all can see from the picture, it is so beautiful! (I like how the grey/green color(?) goes with the CF tube too!
Clear enough skies, and more reports tomorrow!
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3048715 - 04/17/09 09:20 AM
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Oh yea, one more simple question:
What is that squarish (about 3/4") electrical tab thingy that is embedded into that black anodized "joining ring" between the CW shaft and the DEC axis of the mount???
There's nothing in the manuals about it???
call me curious
clear enough skies
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Jason Glass
sage
Reged: 06/27/05
Loc: 36°33'9.19"N, 86°40'7.36"W
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3049310 - 04/17/09 02:38 PM
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Hi Dave,
That electrical thingy is the declination encoder connector. I engaged a blank connector to protect the pins. Just slide it straight down and off to see the pins.
Actually, I installed the arrow stickers on both axis to denote my park position. I doubt they're right on for CWD, but they're close. They are helpful if you set your park position on them, and use them as reference for a warm restart.
Thanks for the glowing feedback on AM. I appreciate it!
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3049517 - 04/17/09 04:47 PM
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Quote:
2) I wasn't using the proper procedure to get to the next alignment star... stupid user error there.
Probably the most common Gemini mistake. Sync the first star, goto bright star, select star, center star then enter ADDITIONAL ALIGN. You can do that over and over again until you have a pointing model that is scary good.
Nice picture! It's just a great mount and you are going to be very happy with its performance.
David
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: David Pavlich]
#3049597 - 04/17/09 05:29 PM
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Yeah - I think I was trying "next align" (or something like that)... The ex-engineer in my thought I could just brute force my way through...
of course, it was somewhat complicated by the fact that my time setting was 4 hours off, and so NONE of the "GoToBright Stars" were "available"...
My CSC says I can get out tonight, but right now it don't look so promising!
 
clear enough skies
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3050001 - 04/17/09 10:19 PM
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You can go to any object in the database and do an Additional Align. It works best with the star database. Just get the ASO number, enter it and slew, center and do an Additional Align.
And once you get your pointing model all set up, make sure that when you power up, you use Warm Restart. Once you do that, goto an object and if it's off just a bit, center and Sync. I wasn't sure what would happen if you did a Sync after a Warm Restart, but it doesn't do anything to your existing pointing model.
It's a good system. You'll have a great time working through the quirkiness.
David
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: David Pavlich]
#3050063 - 04/17/09 10:59 PM
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Well, the skies cleared up and it was a GREAT night!
I was able to get a really good model built - 5 alignment stars... had no trouble landing M51, M97, M65 and a few others (Saturn was nice tonight - our seeing actually sustained my 3-6 zoom at 3mm in the TMB w/ no issues - very crisp views...
The goto's on this puppy are very accurate, even after the first alignment star... I can't wait to next time, with the Warm Restart...
Next time out, going to try and get a really tight polar alignment, and then setting up the QHY8...
And, I hafta route a bunch of cables for the dew system as well...
Tonight was visual and Mallincam.
And then, back inside in time to watch the Sox actually pull it out (they were down 7-0 when I turned it off to do the dishes and head out to the observatory)...
Yes, a GOOD night!
clear enough skies
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: OK, I've been tapped! Need help deciding!!
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3050642 - 04/18/09 10:57 AM
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Great news, Dave! I'm looking forward to your image from the 8. Should be terrific!
David
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