dongchina
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Loc: Tianjin, CHINA
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need your great help~~
#3042728 - 04/14/09 02:03 AM
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I am going to make a diameter 305mm;F=4 Newtonian myself, the mirror's net weight is 6kg, net thickness is 38mm.So, what kind of material shall I use to make the tube for it,and to make the telescope both light and stable?
Now I encounter another boring question: I don't know which mount is the most suitable one for the selfmade 305mm Newtonian? ATLUX or CGE? I have reckonen that 305 will be 20kg, this does not include other accessories such as tube holders; guidingtube;mirror cell;2nd mirror;etc..if adding these, the whole weights must be about 22kg~~ this is the limited point of ATLUX!
CGE can carry about 65lbs,about 32kg. So it can carry 305 smoothly and safely. BUT I am informed by CELESTRON that CGE's Dec. drive box DOES BUMP the R.A. drive box when the mount works. Oh! my God~~~
Other brands' mounts are too expensive & huge for me! So if I decide to use 305 Newtonion, ATLUX & CGE, which one will be the best???
Additionally, who can tell me how to deal with "the bump " in using CGE??
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EricJD
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/24/07
Loc: Chesapeake VA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3042897 - 04/14/09 07:21 AM
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If you really want to keep the weight down, use carbon fiber for your optical tube.
I've never heard of the CGE problem you described and with the weight you want to mount, it's the better of the two (assuming you mean Atlas, not Atlux).
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fetoma
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/26/06
Loc: Southern New Jersey
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: EricJD]
#3043020 - 04/14/09 08:51 AM
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Hi there and welcome to CN,
Bobby can make you a nice carbon fiber tube for a reasonable price. Check here:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2918508/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/
I believe the CGE has switches to prevent the "bump" you are talking about. The Atlas is a very capable mount also.
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: fetoma]
#3043194 - 04/14/09 10:52 AM
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Atlux is a higher end Vixen mount ... beyond the Atlas/EQ-6 product.
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dongchina
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Loc: Tianjin, CHINA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: fetoma]
#3043322 - 04/14/09 11:58 AM
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thank you ! Eric & Fetoma.
I prefer VIXEN's ATLUX,not ATLAS.
It is CELESTRON company and yesterday has told me that Dec.box DOES BUMP R.A. box~~~ how to deal with this problem??? and it seems that CGE has no those screws to fine & minimal adjust the altitude & azimuth,
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fetoma
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/26/06
Loc: Southern New Jersey
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3043362 - 04/14/09 12:21 PM
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I would definitely go with the Vixen Atlux!!!!
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3043381 - 04/14/09 12:31 PM
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You can move a CGE so that the Dec box does bump into the mount. There are little soft pads that prevent any damage. Notice I said "move" as in manually move the mount. When you are using the hand controller or the scope is just tracking there is both hardware (limit switches) and software (slew limits) that prevent any contact from happening. It is simply not a problem.
The CGE does have easy to adjust bolts for az and alt positioning. Are they "fine" ... well define "fine"? They work well but do require that you practice a bit to get a feel for the adjustments.
In North America the CGE is currently being sold at about half the price of the Vixen Atlux ($2700 vs. $5200 USD) and it has about 50% greater carrying capacity. The CGE does not have all the engineering precision of the high end models from Takahashi but it is also not priced like them either.
Whoever you are talking to at Celestron needs to have the back of their head slapped.
You simply will not find another mount that has it's combination of carrying capacity, accuracy and features under $3000 USD.
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: mclewis1]
#3043411 - 04/14/09 12:46 PM
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Quote:
You can move a CGE so that the Dec box does bump into the mount. There are little soft pads that prevent any damage. Notice I said "move" as in manually move the mount. When you are using the hand controller or the scope is just tracking there is both hardware (limit switches) and software (slew limits) that prevent any contact from happening. It is simply not a problem.
The CGE does have easy to adjust bolts for az and alt positioning. Are they "fine" ... well define "fine"? They work well but do require that you practice a bit to get a feel for the adjustments.
In North America the CGE is currently being sold at about half the price of the Vixen Atlux ($2700 vs. $5200 USD) and it has about 50% greater carrying capacity. The CGE does not have all the engineering precision of the high end models from Takahashi but it is also not priced like them either.
Whoever you are talking to at Celestron needs to have the back of their head slapped.
You simply will not find another mount that has it's combination of carrying capacity, accuracy and features under $3000 USD.
I strongly concur. Note also that you can make the Alt/Az adjustments MUCH easier (finer!) on the CGE by just getting two small 1/4" drive ratchet sockets that fit the hex adjustment sockets... I just left BOTH on there, and then used the ratchet drive to nudge them when doing Polar alignment... worked GREAT.
Also: I can vouch for Bobby McCourt's work in making CF OTAs, I have his very first effort!
Clear enough skies
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fetoma
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/26/06
Loc: Southern New Jersey
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3043901 - 04/14/09 05:29 PM
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Hey Dave
Bobby is making CF tubes for my Vixen R200SS and VC200L. I think he is finishing them up to take them to the NEAF show.
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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
Reged: 09/11/06
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: fetoma]
#3043916 - 04/14/09 05:38 PM
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I predict you are going to love it!
Make sure to post pics!
clear enough skies
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dongchina
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Loc: Tianjin, CHINA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: Bowmoreman]
#3044399 - 04/14/09 10:27 PM Attachment (11 downloads)
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Thank you everybody!
Maybe I didn't express correctly, please see the picture-----I just mean that CGE has no "micro-adjust screws for al. & az.", but such as ATLUX do have them and make the microadjustments very convenient~~ and without any hexhead or wrench; but CGE perhaps needs these to do.
And it is said that when CGE is working, noise is very loud,isn't it?
And although there is a pad on the box, if the Dec. box bumps onto the R.A. box when using handcontroller,then they block each other. So I wonder if there is a shortcircuit occuring and fusing??? because however I push the buttons on the hand controller, the Dec.box will never move, as it now blocks onto the R.A. box,in a busy & black observing night, I don't think that people will always pay attention to the micro-moving of the box. This is the functional point about CGE I have been worrying........
So what shall I do? so sad.....  If I can get a CF tube from Bobby, anything will become easier~~ maybe I can just select ATLUX for a much lighter telescope. But I live in China. [crying] Bobby is in USA. [crying again & loudly]
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dongchina
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Loc: Tianjin, CHINA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3044402 - 04/14/09 10:29 PM
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pic2
Notice of Edit: Sorry you must have explicit permission from the owner to post product photos. CH
Edited by Charlie Hein (04/15/09 06:19 AM)
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Moggi1964
Vendor - Astro Laugh
Reged: 11/07/05
Loc: Madison. NJ. USA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3044472 - 04/14/09 11:17 PM
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Bobby is easy to deal with and is as helpful as anyone I have ever dealt with. If anyone can sort something out that works for both of you then Bobby can.
Good luck in your adventure and clear skies.
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3044550 - 04/15/09 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Maybe I didn't express correctly, please see the picture-----I just mean that CGE has no "micro-adjust screws for al. & az.", but such as ATLUX do have them and make the microadjustments very convenient~~ and without any hexhead or wrench; but CGE perhaps needs these to do.
The CGE because of it's larger size and capacity has larger bolts to adjust the Alt and Az. The Atlux uses threaded bolts that are more like the smaller mounts such as the CG5, EQ5/6 and GPDX. With the CGE you do need a hex head wrench (which is included with the mount and stored in the head) but this also means that there are not a bunch of bolts sticking out which can snag cables when the mount is tracking. Those bolts on the Atlux and other mounts can also be bumped and bent when the mount is being taken apart and stored. On a larger and heavier mount like the CGE having fewer bolts or other items sticking out is actually a good thing ... there is less to break or bend.
Quote:
And it is said that when CGE is working, noise is very loud,isn't it?
Very loud ... No, the CGE is similar to the Atlas/EQ-6 in noise levels ... which in my opinion places it roughly in the middle of the pack. It is quieter than the CG5, LXD and others and noisy than some other mounts.
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dongchina
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Loc: Tianjin, CHINA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: mclewis1]
#3044716 - 04/15/09 03:03 AM
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Lewis,
can you send some pictures about your CGE? i.e., when you are using it;some closeups of the strange bolts for micro-adjusting al. & az.; and the picture on bumping~~~
Another question I want to get the correct answer is how much CGE's Max. loading weight is? CELESTRON company has told me that it is 65lbs and includes the counterweights. Then if minute the counterweights, max.loading weight becomes lighter than 65lbs, isn't it?
ATLUX is a kind of mount with wireless. It only needs a power cable; a cable linked to STARBOOK,of course if add some other apparatuses,other cables are needed. Inside the mount, it is said that all are contacted by touch of bronze-pieces to conduct. So few cables are needed for ATLUX.
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3045905 - 04/15/09 06:50 PM Attachment (9 downloads)
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I don't have any good pictures of my mount "in action". There are some good pictures in the CGE user manual, it's available on Celestron's website and it's called CGE1400 manual Link. Page 12 has a picture of the Alt adjustment bolt, the Az adjustment bolt is in front of one of the Az locking bolts.
The point where any contact between mount components will almost occur is when the Dec axis is horizontal (parallel to the ground), at this point the limit switches prevent any contact from occurring even if you are just using the hand controller to move the mount. The mount simply will not let you get into a problem ... it will not "bump" or run into itself. If you are just tracking on an object then at this point you can get the mount to do a meridian flip and reposition itself still tracking your object but setup on the other side of the meridian (and RA axis).
The documented capacity of a CGE is 65lbs (and there are many CGE owners who put more weight on their mounts) ... this is equipment weight and does NOT include the counterweights. The only vendor I know who still includes the counterweights in a mount's carrying capacity is Vixen (but not for all their mounts ... it can be very confusing). I regularly put 50-55lbs on my CGE (C11 and TMB115 plus the side by side saddles, plates and rings).
The only cable difference that I'm aware of between the CGE and ATLUX is that on the ATLUX the RA and DEC cables are internal. The cables that typically cause problems and get caught on a mount are those for accessories such as cameras and dew strips. If you would like to read about all the connectivity options for a CGE please have a look at Mike Swanson's NexStar site www.nexstarsite.com
Here is a picture close up of the Dec axis sitting horizontal to the ground. This is the point where the limit switches will stop the mount. It is hard to see but there is about 1/8" between the Dec and RA housings.
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DrBuck
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/10/08
Loc: Susanville, No. Calif.
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: mclewis1]
#3046118 - 04/15/09 09:04 PM
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Dongchina-------someone has been giving you some biased opinions about the CGE that are simply not True!!!!! I have now had mine for 3 months carrying a Tak 152 and TV-85 with none of the problems that you have mentioned. In fact it is the best mount I have ever used.
After not using it for 10 days, I powered it up and used the "Last Alignment" feature, then it centered M42 dead spot on. This was in an Observatory. CGE's for the price can not be beat. I set up mine, did the Polar alignment once and haven't had to touch it again.
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dongchina
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Loc: Tianjin, CHINA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: DrBuck]
#3046256 - 04/15/09 10:51 PM Attachment (11 downloads)
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Thank you!! Lewis & DrBuck.
After reading all your helpful posts carefully,I begin to become clearer...... 
And last evening,I made a simulant experiment on my little mount for 114--900 made in China long long ago.I seem to understand what "meridian flip" means, see the pic.. My thoughts is that when the object tracked goes near the meridian,Dec. housing bumps or blocks the R.A. housing at this time, then I turn the tube manually round the R.A. axis to the other side to continue tracking, just like from E to W; or from W to E. AND I have read the CGE manual that there is a good useful funtion "...objects above the horizon can be seen", and I live at latitue 39 degree, considering every aspects, I understand gradually.
And I am going to make a Newtonion of 305mm,F=4. Now I only have the truble that I can not get a CF tube from Bobby, for he lives in USA. Maybe I have to make it by aluminium or stainless steel etc. traditional materials. This must make the telescope's weight be about 20KG.
Sighing........
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DrBuck
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/10/08
Loc: Susanville, No. Calif.
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3046284 - 04/15/09 11:10 PM
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Dongchina--------some home made newtonian reflectors have used a sonotube (available at hardware stores). They just waterproofed them with Spar varnish or epoxy paint and they worked succesfully for years. They are made of cardboard.
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dongchina
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Loc: Tianjin, CHINA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: DrBuck]
#3048016 - 04/16/09 10:01 PM
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I have again a new question: does CGE have "level bubble"??? if not, how do you who have been using CGE adjust the level of the mount?
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3048273 - 04/17/09 12:38 AM
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yes it has a small bubble level
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dongchina
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Loc: Tianjin, CHINA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: mclewis1]
#3048306 - 04/17/09 01:10 AM
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good~~~ thank you Mark!
I have gone to Nexstarresource, had a quick look there,felt good.And I have found that it seems that user should often upgrade different versions for CGE. Why?? If I buy the mount, how can I know if it is the newest version? And by browsing some posts here, I find that it is said that CGE is discontinued to produce, then if it will be a horrible thing that I buy one which is someone saved in their warehouse?
I have sent a PM to you.
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DrBuck
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/10/08
Loc: Susanville, No. Calif.
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3049826 - 04/17/09 08:19 PM
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Quote:
I have again a new question: does CGE have "level bubble"??? if not, how do you who have been using CGE adjust the level of the mount?
Yes-------it definitely has a bubble level. If it didn't just use a bubble level that you can buy at a hardware store. set it on a level surface and have at it
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dongchina
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Loc: Tianjin, CHINA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: DrBuck]
#3050487 - 04/18/09 08:28 AM
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Thank you.Buck!!
And could you tell me why CGE-users shall often update different versions for CGE? I just found this point at Nexstarresourse. You know that I am not good at computer.
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WadeH237
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/24/07
Loc: Snohomish, WA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3050615 - 04/18/09 10:36 AM
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You don't need to update the firmware often on a CGE.
The current motor controller firmware has been out for several years and is quite stable.
There have been a few recent updates to the hand controller firmware. People have been excited about these new versions mostly because they add new polar alignment features. As long as you have a 4.x hand controller, any of the firmware versions will provide you with excellent service.
Personally, I only update the firmware when it fixes a bug I'm experiencing (which has not happened in many years) or if it adds a feature I want (I picked up 4.15 to get all star polar alignment.)
-Wade
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DrBuck
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/10/08
Loc: Susanville, No. Calif.
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: WadeH237]
#3050688 - 04/18/09 11:36 AM
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I have only had my CGE for about 3 months, so It has the 4.l5 update factory installed. I wouldn't want to change anything anyway, the mount is working flawlessly. 
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dongchina
member
Reged: 08/19/08
Loc: Tianjin, CHINA
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: DrBuck]
#3053442 - 04/19/09 08:55 PM
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Thank you all my good friends above!
Both CGE and JP-Z [Takahashi] can carry about 30kg,why Takahashi is so expensive? As Takahashi's more precise??
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DrBuck
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/10/08
Loc: Susanville, No. Calif.
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Re: need your great help~~
[Re: dongchina]
#3055223 - 04/20/09 03:33 PM
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Thats a good question.
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