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pubquiz
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 10/07/04
Loc: Lancashire England
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: RAKing]
#3062821 - 04/23/09 06:50 PM
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Paul G.
' You also pay for reliability and after sales service. Something the Mach1 won't give you that the CGEM will:
Is the after sales and reliability on the Mach 1 not so good then compared to Celestron? I would have thought AP were good on aftersales but have no idea ...it's just for future reference.
Tom
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Paul G
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 05/08/03
Loc: Freedonia
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: pubquiz]
#3062956 - 04/23/09 08:02 PM
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Paul G.
' You also pay for reliability and after sales service. Something the Mach1 won't give you that the CGEM will:
Is the after sales and reliability on the Mach 1 not so good then compared to Celestron? I would have thought AP were good on aftersales but have no idea ...it's just for future reference.
Tom
Sorry I wasn't clear. The second sentence refers to the following link, not to the previous sentence.
AP is superb on after sales service. You don't wind up with threads like the one I linked where someone is waiting for a replacement for his first defective mount, or this one:
Linky link
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: JumboFlex]
#3062982 - 04/23/09 08:14 PM
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So basically I have decided to go for it, now I am stuck in somewhat the same position as Doug D in that I have to figure out if I want a tripod or pier or just want to hire a couple of guys to hold the equatorial head steady.
Great - if ok with you it is ok with me. Lets talk legs. BTW, congratulations on your decision.
I've been thinking a lot about legs for the Mach 1. Here are a few things to think about.
AP/Baader wood tripod: tried and true, good enough for visual and imaging according to Roland and others, probably ideal for scopes like Paul's (Traveler and 130). Advantages include good damping times, relatively light in weight, adjustable to sitting and standing heights and in between. A lot cheaper than Eagle and other quality portable piers. To me, it is a winner for stability and portability.
Eagle: Snazzy looking - looks like it means business. Fully machined and anodized and very steady by all accounts. However, it is heavy and it is wide when folded (more than 12" I think when taking into account legs). It folds up fairly compact lengthwise if the center tube is fully seated at lowest position (only way it fits in its Lightware case - as an aside, you can get this case from B&H for a lot less). If you have any of the brackets attached for accessories, they would need to be removed if you want to seat the tube at lowest position (unless use use it only in seated position). It takes a while to figure it all out but another advantage is the accessories - lots of them. Not as adjustable obviously, as the wood tripod, more limitations in height. Some of the height can come from drawing legs inward (less spread) and therefore, theoretically less stable in this stance. Nice 8" extension available but again another thing to carry. If you are primarily imaging there is a lot to be said for the Eagle. A lot pricier than tripod but obviously well made and probably well worth it. Some love the looks - I like the looks but feel so-so about the big "AP" carved into the legs. But if you got it, flaunt it I guess.
There are several fixed height tripods (including APs) but on uneven ground I think leveling can be a challenge but others can chime in here with their opinions.
I have a PWT Pinnacle on order - PWT makes the Monolith. It is a very nicely engineered and fully machined adjustable pier available in fixed height (with extension) or manual/motorized adjustable versions (actually more pictures and info on Company 7 site than the PWT site). Expensive relative to Eagle and esp. AP wood tripod. It is supposedly rock solid with very impressive weight capacity. Available in 7, 10 and 12" versions and at various heights. Long wait times. One really nice feature is the "full index adapter" at top to which mount is attached. It is rotatable and has built in compass and spirit levels. The Pinnacle is a real looker too - if that is important to you. You won't be fitting it easily into a carrying bag and if you order one of the higher length versions just make sure it will fit in your trunk or back seat when folded! ATS also makes a very well regarded portable pier.
I own a Berlebach UNI24, which I think is probably on the same scale of quality and rigidity as the AP/Baader tripod but I can't easily adapt the 6" mount platform for the ADATRI adapter. So, I've also been looking at the Berlebach Planet, which costs about the same as the AP/Baader but it is has more than a 200 lb capacity !! Berlebach makes beautiful wood tripods. The Planet is pretty heavy though (24lbs I think).
A lot of people using the Mach 1 swear by the Losmandy G11 tripod as the best and most reasonably priced option. This is certainly a good option to consider.
Well - that should get us started. Lots of other options out there but I am a very firm believer that the very last thing to skimp on here is the legs. If you are going to get a Mach 1 it would be silly, IMO, to go for less than at least the G11 or Baader tripods.
But bear in mind - I don't yet have any of my "recommendations" so I probably don't know what I'm talking about. ....but why should I let that stop me, LOL.
Doug
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Paul G
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 05/08/03
Loc: Freedonia
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: t.r.]
#3063004 - 04/23/09 08:25 PM
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And to some that is certainly worth the $ but for me, I'm okay with a new products glitches and having to "fine tune" its performance to my needs. They are crude and a work in progress, I accept that and save the other $5000+ dollars for other things...YMMV.
Nothing wrong with that approach. Some people love to tinker and tweak, but I'm not good at either. Like Clint Eastwood said in a movie, a man's gotta know his limitations, and I know mine. Fortunately my job allows me to get nice toys, unfortunately it leaves me little time to play with them so I want to maximize my time observing. Next time around I'm going for a 40 hour work week and a C-8 in Arizona!
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mnaf
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/03/06
Loc: Bay Area, CA
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: Doug D.]
#3063504 - 04/24/09 01:20 AM
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Count me for the G11 HD tripod. I've got a Losmandy HD (G11) tripod boxed in storage waiting for the Mach1GTO to arrive. Picked it up second hand. I spent a ton of time researching the topic and found that the HD is best for my needs - keeps price down (vs. Eagle), adjustable legs for all terrain (vs. AP's solid portable pier), and it's really, really stable (vs. AP's wood tripod, which is stable - but less than the HD).
The only (slight) downside I could think of at the time was transportability - it seemed a bit cumbersome. But then I found this link for a do-it-yourself G11 HD tripod case and now the transportability is a non-issue. 
Your needs/budget/etc. may be different and your research might lead you a different solution.
Just my 2 cents.
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darylf96
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/28/04
Loc: Danville, California
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: t.r.]
#3063535 - 04/24/09 01:51 AM
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If I were strictly a visual observer, I would prefer a DM-6 with a DSC unit, like Sky Commander, on a rock-solid tripod. I would love to own a Mach 1 for imaging, no doubt!
Daryl
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Paul G
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 05/08/03
Loc: Freedonia
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: Doug D.]
#3063687 - 04/24/09 06:21 AM
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A lot of people using the Mach 1 swear by the Losmandy G11 tripod as the best and most reasonably priced option. This is certainly a good option to consider.
When I had my G11 (great mount for the money) I really liked the tripod. I kept the three legs fully extended in a tripod bag for quick setup, never found a suitable carry case for the central pier thingy.
The Eagle looks sweet, not sure if it is tall enough for me.
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RAKing
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/28/07
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: Paul G]
#3063946 - 04/24/09 09:31 AM
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I agree that "reasonably level" is nice so it doesn't tip over, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time leveling a GEM. The mount doesn't care if it's level or not - just if it's polar aligned. That's one of the reasons I prefer an equatorial mount over an alt-az. I have plunked my Portable Piers out in some rolling farm fields and never had any problem getting a solid grip on this planet or a decent polar alignment. 
I could not use the A-P tripod because it's designed for refractors and doesn't go low enough for me to be comfortable with a Newt or SCT. A G11 tripod would be a good choice if you are starting from scratch.
Ron
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JumboFlex
sage
Reged: 01/20/09
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: RAKing]
#3064934 - 04/24/09 06:23 PM
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Im thinking of a more traditional adjustable leg tripod over a pier but a pier is tempting. I really like the larger range of heights that a traditional tripod affords as well as its greater ability to be leveled on uneven ground. Even though a GEM may not need to be level to function I believe it does take strain off the gears if its operates on a level plane. Given my current viewing site options, flexibility in meeting the terrain is a great option.
The G11 tripod is interesting, not that much cheaper than the AP wood tripod but a lot of people love it and seem to compare it more to the Eagle pier than the wood tripod. It does weigh almost double what the AP wood tripod does which might add to its stability but hampers portability depending upon how you move your setup. Im strong enough and some would say foolish enough to be able to lift the whole observing setup as one unit even with the G11 tripod but still its another 15lbs or so extra. Im talking about simply moving it indoors and outdoors, not vehicle transport, I would break it down for that; although as little as possible.
Im gonna have to put more research into the G11 tripod, see what accessory trays it can use and so forth. The thing about sticking with an all AP setup is that they operate much like Televue in that they create systems around their products to enhance their performance. I can wait just a little while longer to decide on the tripod/pier, the Mach1 is at least around 6 weeks away I think.
The Eagle is an appealing option, the "AP" pressed into the legs seems a little much though. Not sure if it would prevent me from buying one if I wanted it but I would choose a "non AP" option if it were available.
As Doug D said I dont want to skimp on the legs, doesnt make sense. More to think about. Maybe I should just buy a DOB and get it all over with
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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/04/03
Loc: Frostbite Falls
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: RAKing]
#3067003 - 04/25/09 09:12 PM
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[I used to do film A-P, but got frustrated and quit. I came back to astronomy as a visual observer, but I appreciate quality and put my name on the list]
Never under estimate quality. Having to futz with software or built to minimum specs is just not worth it - if you have the means - get the AP and enjoy it.
BTW - I'm doing film - and loving it.
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fetoma
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/06
Loc: Southern New Jersey
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: Charlie Hein]
#3067295 - 04/26/09 12:23 AM
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I wouldn't stress over it... you wanted to get a quality mount and there are darn few if any that are better than AP
Has anyone seen those new ASA mounts? Just awesome!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yhsiv2A_Po
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JumboFlex
sage
Reged: 01/20/09
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Re: Mach1 Over Kill
[Re: fetoma]
#3067488 - 04/26/09 03:10 AM
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I wouldn't stress over it... you wanted to get a quality mount and there are darn few if any that are better than AP
Has anyone seen those new ASA mounts? Just awesome!!! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yhsiv2A_Po
Thats pretty crazy, there are a heck of a lot of counter weights on that thing.
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