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CG of scope is quite a bit above the alt axis. This potentiates the dreaded scope flop associated with using photographic mounts. How is this an improvement?

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In English please.

I'm no scientist, but it's a lot easier to mount, the scope is in a better position, balancing is a lot easier, overall it's sturdier. And I have less worries now about everything falling over then I did before. What's scope flop? Sounds like something Viagra would take care of.

Are you claiming the scope is more likely to fall over in this position mounted on the bracket?

Doesn't seem like it is. The overall balance of the set up is a lot better then before. Before, EVERY time I would "push-to" another object the mount would want to fall over (I call that not being sturdy). Now with the bracket/handle it's firm on all 3 legs (I call that sturdy). Solved my problem.

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Scope flop: balance the scope when level and when pointed up it will tend to rotate backward(flop). It'll do the same thing when pointing down in the front but that's not too common in astro observing.

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I can attest, with the tension knobs on the Voyager that wasn't/isn't an issue, well it wasn't for me. After your post before, I mounted my TMB92SS again and messed around with moving it, up/down/left right, tried different EP's, etc, etc. I didn't have any worries or scope flop. It was a lot sturdier then before, especially in regards to "push-to'ing".

Manny's brackets are a professionally made item and do what they say they're going to do. No worries about exacerbating scope flop.

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I think the brackets look very nice, but I agree with Luigi that it appears the scope CG is above the alt axis. I know from using the Celestron Heavy duty Alt/Az mount that the weight being above the alt axis doesn't work to well. I would imagine scope flop would be more likely with a heavier longer scope than yours.

Ken

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With a well balanced setup, virtually no friction is need to hold any position of the scope and the movements are very smooth and easy. This is one of the usual goals in designing a telescope mount, and one that the standard Voyager attends to by placing the center of the OTA on the altitude axis. Your mod undoes this, which might be OK if offseting benefits outweigh this consideration.

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I think the brackets look very nice, but I agree with Luigi that it appears the scope CG is above the alt axis. I know from using the Celestron Heavy duty Alt/Az mount that the weight being above the alt axis doesn't work to well. I would imagine scope flop would be more likely with a heavier longer scope than yours.

Ken

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Coparing those 2 mounts is apples to oranges. 2 different mounts with different designs.

If the Celestron mount you're talking about is the one I'm thinking of.

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The mounts might be apples and oranges, but the principle is the same. If you are happy with the mods and they work for you/your scope, I am happy for you. I certainly wasn't trying to degrade the mods/mod maker, just talking about the principle of balance and the center of gravity. I would imagine if those mods would work for every style/weight of scope that Astro Tech markets the mount for, they would probably use it/something like it, from the factory. It just comes down to the fact that the easiest way to make heavier scopes balance and move smoothly is to be centered on the alt axis.(or have a counter weight setup like an GEM mount).

Either way enjoy your mount, apologies for the detour..

Ken

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The mounts might be apples and oranges, but the principle is the same. If you are happy with the mods and they work for you/your scope, I am happy for you. I certainly wasn't trying to degrade the mods/mod maker, just talking about the principle of balance and the center of gravity. I would imagine if those mods would work for every style/weight of scope that Astro Tech markets the mount for, they would probably use it/something like it, from the factory. It just comes down to the fact that the easiest way to make heavier scopes balance and move smoothly is to be centered on the alt axis.(or have a counter weight setup like an GEM mount).

Either way enjoy your mount, apologies for the detour..

Ken

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The mounts might be apples and oranges, but the principle is the same. If you are happy with the mods and they work for you/your scope, I am happy for you. I certainly wasn't trying to degrade the mods/mod maker, just talking about the principle of balance and the center of gravity. I would imagine if those mods would work for every style/weight of scope that Astro Tech markets the mount for, they would probably use it/something like it, from the factory. It just comes down to the fact that the easiest way to make heavier scopes balance and move smoothly is to be centered on the alt axis.(or have a counter weight setup like an GEM mount).

Either way enjoy your mount, apologies for the detour..

Ken

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I don't know if you've used to Voyager before, but the arm on the voyager is adjustable. When you have the arm 45 degrees to the left or right, the scope gets further away from the center of gravity. The bracket actually brings the scope close to the center of gravity - when the arm is positioned at the left or right angles, and not striaght up.

That's why whenever I went to Push-to, pre mods, the mount wanted to fall over. The scope wasn't near the center of gravity. Now with the bracket, it's closer to the center of gravity. How do I know this? The mount no longer wants to fall over when I push-to something.

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Me and you are talking about two different things. Being that you are happy with the mount, I don't see much point in taking this any further from my end. Again, enjoy your mount..

Ken

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Me and you are talking about two different things. Being that you are happy with the mount, I don't see much point in taking this any further from my end. Again, enjoy your mount..

Ken

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But you said you were; "just talking about the principle of balance and the center of gravity"

Which I and Manny addressed. The bracket moves the scope closer to the CG.

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Me and you are talking about two different things. Being that you are happy with the mount, I don't see much point in taking this any further from my end. Again, enjoy your mount..

Ken

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But you said you were; "just talking about the principle of balance and the center of gravity"

Which I and Manny addressed. The bracket moves the scope closer to the CG.

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Last one, I promise..

You are talking about the weight being centered over the tripod legs. To have clearence for a longer scope to be pointed at the zenith and not hit the tripod, they move the scope away from the center of the tripod. I am talking about the weight of the scope being centered on the alt axis, they do this to provide the scope smooth movement with minimum tension on the clutches. As you move the scope away from the alt axis, more weight is either above or below the alt axis, requiring more tension or a counter weight to keep the scope from moving while being pointed higher towards the zenith or lower towards the horizon.

Ken

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Me and you are talking about two different things. Being that you are happy with the mount, I don't see much point in taking this any further from my end. Again, enjoy your mount..

Ken

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But you said you were; "just talking about the principle of balance and the center of gravity"

Which I and Manny addressed. The bracket moves the scope closer to the CG.

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Last one, I promise..

You are talking about the weight being centered over the tripod legs. To have clearence for a longer scope to be pointed at the zenith and not hit the tripod, they move the scope away from the center of the tripod. I am talking about the weight of the scope being centered on the alt axis, they do this to provide the scope smooth movement with minimum tension on the clutches. As you move the scope away from the alt axis, more weight is either above or below the alt axis, requiring more tension or a counter weight to keep the scope from moving while being pointed higher towards the zenith or lower towards the horizon.

Ken

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You are correct. If you're planning on mounting a longer/heavier scope, (13-16 lbs & longer than 24"-30"), the Voyager mount isn't for you.

This is my grab-n-go set up, by the way. I have a CGE and Atlas also to mount my SN10.

Even though the Voyager says it handles up to 20 lbs, I wouldn't mount anything more then 15 lbs on it. If you're mounting longer & heavier scopes you better invest more then $300 on a mount, IMO. That'd be like buying a $40,000 car and putting the least expensive wheels on it. Not a good idea. The only thing keeping your $40k investment from the ground are $60 wheels, when you should have the $150 wheels. Same with mounts, why would someone put a $2000 investment on a $100 mount, isn't the best idea.

I found the mods here seem to jump the gun. Me and 94bamf were having a civil discussion. But jumping the gun is a good thing sometimes. Thanx Charlie, you're one of the good mods.

Edited by Trebor777 (05/10/09 03:22 PM)

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Then why would AT bother putting tension adjustments on the mount, they could have saved ooddles of $$ by not putting it on there ;-)
m2

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I believe the tension knobs are there to make up for slight differences in balance based on different eyepiece weights, accessories, wind, etc.. If you had to move the scope forward or back to balance it everytime you changed eyepieces, I doubt many people would like the mount..

I think ANY mount design is a compromise of some sort, none are perfect that I have seen yet..

Ken

Edited by 94bamf (05/10/09 03:38 PM)

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Randy,
Did you have to adjust the tension +/- of the alt clutch???
m2

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Randy (and also Manny with whom I corresponded earlier). Randy your review and pictures have me thinking again about getting Manny's mods. I had seen other posts earlier and "talked" with Manny about them. I like the ability to mount the scope right side up so to speak instead of on its side. So, Manny, back to you. I have forgotten what you said; I remember I said something about installing your mods since I am very mechanically challenged. If you could be so kind to explain to me again what has to be done. For now I am mounting my Lunt 60 T scope on the Voyager. You can send an IM if you want or not.

Thanks. Dorothy

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I remember I said something about installing your mods since I am very mechanically challenged.

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Dorothy, not to worry, Manny's Mods are extremely easy to install! I had them on my PortaMount, & now have them on my Voyager, only took minutes to install.

BTW; I am extremely pleased with the improvements of my Voyager with Manny's Mods!

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So as is has problems with Scope Flop? When changing EPs?

Sean

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