· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User You are not logged in. [Login] Entrance · Main Index · Search · New user · Who's Online FAQ · Calendar Equipment Discussions >> Mounts Previous   Index   Next   Threaded   Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all) Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge       #3157675 - 06/11/09 03:24 PM Attachment (169 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   It's been cloudy, raining and windy since I received the wedge from Steve. I checked the weather today and I MIGHT be able to find Polaris this evening! First light is on the schedule for tonight. John Bozeman Post Extras:       Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3157685 - 06/11/09 03:26 PM Attachment (209 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Here is the view from the other side. This is one of the first lot of 20 made by ADM for Trapezium Telescope Services. Post Extras:       sam32 super member Reged: 07/26/06 Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3158047 - 06/11/09 07:36 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   John, I have been considering getting the bearing upgrade and then the wedge. Have you tried the wedge on the MT tripod (the one in your picture appears t be a lot more sunstantial) and would that setup be okay for AP in your opinion ? I'd be using fairly light scopes in the weight range of 7-12 pounds. Also, is the wedge something that you just add and then its easy to switch back and forth between eq. and alt- az modes ? Or do you have to remove the wedge to go back to alt-az mode ? Thanks, Sam Post Extras:       Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: sam32]       #3158150 - 06/11/09 08:54 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Hi Sam, My MT has had the bearing upgrade. The tripod in the picture is the stock MT tripod. I shot a lot of AP with it in alt/az mode, and have been limited to 56 seconds due to field rotation. I bought the wedge to see if I could extend my exposures to around 2 minutes unguided. I use a C8 with Hyperstar3, so I am imaging at F/2. The wedge is attached to the tripod with three M10 socket head screws. The MT head is attached with a single M12 socket head screw. It doesn't take very long to set it up or tear it down. You switch from Alt/Az to EQ with the handset. You have to remove the wedge to use it in alt/az mode. John Post Extras:       Sky Captain Metal Whisperer Reged: 11/07/04 Loc: Loc: Loc: Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3158182 - 06/11/09 09:29 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Thats nice looking John. Is there only one adjuster on the side for getting the right elevation\angle. Does it seem strong enough if thats the case. Post Extras:       Luigi Postmaster Reged: 07/03/07 Loc: MA Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Sky Captain]       #3158629 - 06/12/09 07:21 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Yeah. The elevation adjustment looks a bit puny to me too. Post Extras:       Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Luigi]       #3158700 - 06/12/09 08:55 AM Attachment (103 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Its got plenty of beef to hold the rated load or more. John Post Extras:       Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3158702 - 06/12/09 08:56 AM Attachment (114 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   The other side Post Extras:       Chuii newbie Reged: 12/25/05 Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3159820 - 06/12/09 08:57 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Hi John I have a Minitower(MT) without bearing upgrade. For the visual use, does the MT with bearing upgrade perform better (without the wedge) than the stock MT? Chuii Post Extras:       Sky Captain Metal Whisperer Reged: 11/07/04 Loc: Loc: Loc: Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3159910 - 06/12/09 10:08 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Thanks for the close up shots John, it was hard to tell in the other photo's. Your right, they do look strong. Post Extras:       Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Chuii]       #3160323 - 06/13/09 08:34 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   I really can't see any improvement in visual observation. The mount is quieter. Target DSOs stay centered in the FOV for hours with or without the bearing upgrade. It's a different world doing alt/az astrophotography, however. I usually shoot a sequence of 20 exposures at 56 seconds duration. I would typically reject 50% of the frames prior to the upgrade. I noticed a sharp reduction in bad frames after the upgrade. I may throw out 3 frames in 20, worst case. John Bozeman Post Extras:       Luigi Postmaster Reged: 07/03/07 Loc: MA Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3160349 - 06/13/09 09:03 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Yeah. That adjustable brace on the side opposite the adjustment screw looks like it adds what's needed for rigidity. I think it would have been better to design it with both positioned as far from the pivot as reasonable to increase the arm they work over. Post Extras:       Chuii newbie Reged: 12/25/05 Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3160822 - 06/13/09 02:32 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Hi John Thank you for your comments. Chuii Post Extras:       Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Chuii]       #3171908 - 06/19/09 04:45 PM Attachment (110 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   I managed to get about three hours observing time on this mount earlier in the week. I had an Orion ST120 mounted and it did fine. I lined up Polaris as the PARK position, did a 3 star alignment and was off and running. It tracks very well. The sky is back to cloudy again, so I set my AP rig on the mount and took few pictures. Steve made me a Losmandy style CW shaft and it is in the picture with an 11# weight. I just ran a fake 3 star alignment in the house, and it worked great. Didn't strain a bit. John Post Extras:       Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3171910 - 06/19/09 04:47 PM Attachment (115 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Fully dressed with the hard plastic dew shield... Post Extras:       Figment member Reged: 08/08/08 Loc: NH Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3172473 - 06/19/09 11:36 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   It looks like the center of gravity is pretty far away from the center of the tripod. Are you noticing any stability issues? Post Extras:       Luigi Postmaster Reged: 07/03/07 Loc: MA Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Figment]       #3172855 - 06/20/09 09:09 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   With it set to your low latitude, the short arm for the latitude adjustment screw looks even more precarious. It looks like the CG of the scope and mount is offset pretty far from the center of the tripod. How stable is it against toppling? On the positive side it looks like there's plenty of clearance to operate without a meridian flip of you wanted to. So, is there an advantage of this over something like a CG5ASGT or HEQ5? It seems like taking a alt-az silk purse and turning into an equatorial sow's ear. Post Extras:       Sky Captain Metal Whisperer Reged: 11/07/04 Loc: Loc: Loc: Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3172927 - 06/20/09 09:49 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   CG that far over is a bit scary looking for sure. BTW, nice CW shaft. Post Extras:       hudson_yak Carpal Tunnel Reged: 11/15/07 Loc: Hyde Park, NY, USA Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Sky Captain]       #3172944 - 06/20/09 09:57 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Agreed, that does not look safe at all. The wedge should be tilted the other way so the mount is carried over the center of the tripod, more like a typical SCT fork-wedge setup. Mike Post Extras:       tim53 Postmaster Reged: 12/17/04 Loc: Highland Park, CA Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: hudson_yak]       #3172948 - 06/20/09 09:59 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   If it were me, I'd make a tray for the bottom of the tripod and set a 25lb barbell weight on the south side of it, or attach a couple 10lb weights to the south two legs. -Tim. Post Extras:       Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Luigi]       #3172953 - 06/20/09 10:00 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   It is very stable. The picture shows it in the park position. It does look like the CG is very exaggerated. Things look very different once you actually slew to an object. Meridian flip is not an issue with this set-up. Advantages over something else? None that I can think of. I also use a GM-8 with autoguider for longer exposures. I set this up as a quick grab and go for 2 minute unguided exposures, which suits the Hyperstar3 (F/2) just fine. As to the sow's ear, many people swear you can't run a mini tower in EQ mode.I built this rig to prove them wrong. I had been shooting in alt/az for several months with good results, but was limited to field rotation. My longest exposures were limited to 40-56 seconds, depending on what part of the sky I was targeting. This set-up solved that problem. John Post Extras:       Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3172996 - 06/20/09 10:24 AM Attachment (130 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Here is Steve Forbes' Mini Tower wedge setup with a C8... John Post Extras:       EdTheEdge Pooh-Bah Reged: 04/10/09 Loc: Lomita, CA Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3173062 - 06/20/09 11:30 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   The more I see these mounts the more I want one! Post Extras:       Eric Gage scholastic sledgehammer Reged: 12/13/05 Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: EdTheEdge]       #3173905 - 06/20/09 10:54 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Pardon my ignorance, but what is the point of the wedge? I tend to doubt that the wedge will provide the alignment accuracy necessary for astrophotography, and visually, it throws off the eyepiece ergonomics. Post Extras:       Luigi Postmaster Reged: 07/03/07 Loc: MA Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Eric Gage]       #3174606 - 06/21/09 01:07 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Does it have autoguiding inputs? Post Extras:       StarStruckCarter member Reged: 08/31/08 Loc: Manchester, NH Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Luigi]       #3191931 - 06/30/09 10:22 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   If you talk to Steve he will inform you that he designed the wedge to be fully adjustable from 0 - 90 degrees. He will also tell you that the wedge should be pointed north and that one tripod leg should be placed under it on the north. Steve sent me an email where John Bozeman says that the MT is apparently able to autoguide with Meade Maxim DL. He's waiting for clear weather to confirm this. According to Steve, he originally noticed that the MT was being supplied with the same controller that was included with the gotonova. He realized the potential of the combination and when he was told it wouldn't work, took it as a challenge. I'd say that he has proven his theory that it can work in both modes. I have noticed that Steve uses his with a CG5 or Orion Atlas tripod instead of the factory one. They are taller and stronger. As for polar alignment, after a 3 star alignment the controller provides an error report which allows one to dial in the alignment in only a few tries. jhc Post Extras:       GaryML sage Reged: 02/16/09 Loc: San Diego, California Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: StarStruckCarter]       #3192050 - 06/30/09 11:32 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   I don't mean to be rude, but I simply don't understand why anyone would want this Mini-Tower wedge system. The Mini-Tower costs $800. The bearing upgrade costs $300. The wedge costs $380. So now we're at $1480 (and even more if you need to add a bigger counter-weight shaft and/or other parts). And what you have something without a polar alignment scope or any other polar alignment method, looks rather unbalanced on the tripod, has just a skinny tripod, supports 25 lbs at best, and has no manufacturer's warranty (just the store warranty). You can buy an Orion Sirius for $1200, a Celestron CGEM for $1400, or a Losmandy GM-8 (no Gemini but with motors) for $1500. These mounts will clearly work better for imaging (e.g., auto-guider port, polar scope and/or polar alignment software), are much more stable, supports 30-40 lbs, and have a manufacturer's warranty. Why would anyone want the Mini-Tower with the wedge when you can get a real GEM mount with much better performance for the same money or less? This Mini-Tower wedge may be interesting as a DIY hobby project, but I can't understand why anyone would buy one. Edited by GaryML (07/01/09 12:32 AM) Post Extras:       Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: GaryML]       #3192836 - 07/01/09 11:42 AM Attachment (127 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   I spent this last dark cycle field testing the Mini Tower on the wedge in EQ with a C8, Hyperstar3 and QHY8 OSC. It is pretty easy to get a good alignment, as mentioned above. The autoguiding software Steve mentioned is Orion's Maxim DL Essentials for the StarShoot DSCI II. The only reason I recommended this is because PHD Guiding doesn't support the camera. I found that the GotoNova ASCOM driver will communicate with the mount via the USB cable, so I feel pretty certain it will autoguide. I will test this feature next time out. I got good pictures at 90 seconds exposure unguided. Each night I had a breeze to contend with, resulting in a few tossed frames. Here is a widefield shot of M8 & M20. This was 7X90 seconds stacked in DSS, processed in PixInsight and Photoshop 7. John Bozeman Post Extras:       Luigi Postmaster Reged: 07/03/07 Loc: MA Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Dr Benway]       #3192971 - 07/01/09 01:05 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   >>>but I simply don't understand why anyone would want this Mini-Tower wedge system<<< Stand out in a crowd, go against the grain, follow a different drummer, turn a silk purse into a sow's ear, to prompt individuals to ask why would you do this? Post Extras:       Wes James Postmaster Reged: 04/12/06 Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Luigi]       #3193015 - 07/01/09 01:24 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Looking at this setup- it just looks like it's going to put a lot of strain on the Mini Tower mount. With the mount's normal position- vertical- all weight is supported in a vertical direction- down- perpendicular to the shaft. The weight is being supported in the bearings, equal on each side (assuming a reasonably well balanced load). There is no side thrust/load on the bearings. When you tilt it up 20-30- or 40 degrees on its side, now you're placing a lot of side thrust on the bearings and drive train that its not normally encountering or designed for. Comments? I've never seen inside one, so I may be way off base. Have been following the MT with great interest, though. Post Extras:       Dr Benway professor emeritus Reged: 03/27/08 Loc: Abilene, TX Re: iOptron Mini Tower with Trapezium Wedge [Re: Wes James]       #3193051 - 07/01/09 01:50 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   It has aftermarket Timken precision bearings installed by Steve Forbes at Trapezium Telescopes. Trust me, it is built like a tank. I imagine the load limit is probably much higher, as well. I know Steve ran a C11 on the upgraded mount at the Winter Star Party without any problems. John Post Extras:       Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all) Previous   Index   Next   Threaded   Extra information 18 registered and 34 anonymous users are browsing this forum. 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