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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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maknewtnut
Member
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Reged: 10/08/06

Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: Doug D.]
      #3591892 - 01/29/10 03:56 PM

Yep. Same leg spread angle as when using the 37cm tray.

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Alain R
member


Reged: 10/18/09

Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: maknewtnut]
      #3592000 - 01/29/10 04:41 PM

Here is a link to the leg lock description page. This is where the statement about 23° angle is made. I have a UNI 18 with leg lock on order so I should be able to find out soon if there is any downside to the leg lock.

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Scott99
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Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: Alain R]
      #3592307 - 01/29/10 08:08 PM

Quote:

Here is a link to the leg lock description page. This is where the statement about 23° angle is made. I have a UNI 18 with leg lock on order so I should be able to find out soon if there is any downside to the leg lock.




from the pictures it looks like the tray is in the exact same position relative to the legs with the spreader, it has to be the same angle otherwise the tray wouldn't fit.


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peleuba
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: maknewtnut]
      #3592607 - 01/30/10 12:01 AM Attachment (207 downloads)

Quote:

Yep. Same leg spread angle as when using the 37cm tray.




I love the Planet tripod, but am not too happy with the spreader on the Planet. See the attached picture of my TEC160FL, G11 and Planet with spreader. To me is does not allow the legs to be spread far enough apart when handling big loads... In fact, when I install my DiscMount DM6 and the TEC160, the tripod is quite unstable unless the OTA is over a leg. This defeats the purpose of a quality alt-az like the DM6. The OTA is rarely over a leg but rather slewing in azimuth.

Mark - I want to get rid of the spreader and purchase the 50cm tray with the eyepiece cutouts. With appropriate hardware, as seen on the Berlebach website, will this larger tray fit the Planet?

Thanks.

Edited by peleuba (01/30/10 12:08 AM)


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hudson_yak
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/15/07

Loc: Hyde Park, NY, USA
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: peleuba]
      #3592657 - 01/30/10 12:46 AM

Paul, you should be able to relocate the spreader brackets higher up the legs to get some more width at the ground. From what I can tell there's just some small screws holding them in place.

Other than that suggestion, I'd want to try a setup without the mount extension (and legs extended to get the same height) to see how that works. These tripods do have a bit narrower leg angle than other astro tripods I've seen, so I'd wonder if they anticipated the use of extensions above the hub. Probably you do need the extension, especially with the DM6, to avoid collision with the legs though.

A note about the 23-degree angle mentioned with the new spreader, I measured that same leg angle (relative to vertical) with mine using the 37cm snap-in tray. Makes one wonder where the 32-degree reference mentioned for some of the tripods comes from and how it's being measured.

Mike


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JimP
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/22/03

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: hudson_yak]
      #3593009 - 01/30/10 09:48 AM

Is there an angle that is the absolute strongest for a tripod?

Jim


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Doug D.
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Reged: 08/23/05

Loc: Virginia
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: JimP]
      #3593027 - 01/30/10 10:00 AM

Varying leg angle is not so much for strength but as a matter of stability and balance, IMO. I did have same concerns as Paul when using my UNI24 with a DM-6 and a 5" heavy refractor (i.e., large weight off center). I sometimes worried the whole thing would tip over. That is why I ended up with 3 different size trays - I used whatever made best sense for the mount and OTA. Widest tray for 5" refractor, smallest tray for small refractors, etc.. I don't recommend multiple trays - thats just what I ended up with somehow. It would be a lot easier to just remove the satndard tray if you felt the need for other angles (and use chain for safety).

The tray isn't adding much if any strength or stability. Aside from convenience of tray though, I felt it really helped space the legs equally without fiddling. On even ground, this was beneficial for quick set-up. Hasn't been mentioned yet I don't think, but simply having the "rulers" on legs is also a great convenience when altering height at set-up.


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JimP
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/22/03

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: Doug D.]
      #3593031 - 01/30/10 10:05 AM

Sorry for so m,any questions, but are the three size trays that you have homemade or did you purchase them somewhere? This would require hardware at three different locations on the tripod legs... I guess you could do the same thing with the spreader (i.e. three different locations for it to attach to the legs). Sounds like your setup with three trays would be the easiest/quickest setup. Hmmm....

JimP


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Doug D.
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Reged: 08/23/05

Loc: Virginia
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: JimP]
      #3593053 - 01/30/10 10:15 AM Attachment (172 downloads)

Jim, the trays are from Berlebach. If you go their site and look under accessories you'll find optional trays in addition to the standard 37cm. These include 50cm (50x50x50) and 27cm trays.

They each snap into the existing hardware on the tripod legs in a fixed position. Obviously, if the trays differ in size and snapping into a fixed location, the leg spread will change with each. What Mike mentions as a "fix" for changing position of the spreader would work but this isn't something you'd be wanting to adjust regularly.

The narrowest tray (27") was pretty much useless for me as it turned out (leg spread so narrow the risk of tipping was even greater). The 50cm tray really spread the legs and made it very hard to tip - and it could hold a lot of gear! The standard 37cm (which you can get with EP holes, BTW) is - as they say - just right !!!

The old photo shows a 50 cm tray on a UNI24. That is a 17" macbook on there - try that with most standard tripod trays!


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hudson_yak
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Reged: 11/15/07

Loc: Hyde Park, NY, USA
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: Doug D.]
      #3593088 - 01/30/10 10:36 AM

Quote:

The standard 37cm (which you can get with EP holes, BTW) is - as they say - just right !!!




Except that, that's equivalent to the spread Paul has now, so may not be just right, when used with the mount extension anyway. For me it is just right, and I have the new spreader on the way since dealing with the snap-in tray has been one of my few annoyances with the tripod. Obviously my load is dinky in comparison to what's being discussed here, and I don't use an extension.

As to the question about strength, tough to answer, and also depends on how much the legs themselves are extended. More extension of the legs would favor a bit less spread for best vertical load-carrying capability.

If Paul wants to retain the convenience of the spreader and keep the mount extension, I'd say repositioning the spreader brackets for another, say 6-9 inches or so lateral spread at each leg tip would work well. Note that this increased angle would lower the mount head unless the legs are extended a bit to compensate so that has to be factored into the repositioning.

Mike


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Doug D.
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Reged: 08/23/05

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Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: hudson_yak]
      #3593097 - 01/30/10 10:42 AM

Yes, of course - that was the point of the 3 trays, to alter spread for different scenarios. What I meant about "just right" was for the majority of cases, and for other situations use the safety chain without tray to alter leg spread (instead of buying and carrying around 2-3 different trays). The leg clamps at top are contributing the overall rigidity to the tripod, not the trays or spreader.

Repositioning spreader brackets in his case might make sense if the tripod is dedicated to one mount/OTA but I don't think you would want to be screwing and unscrewing the bracket hardware to reposition everytime you wanted to change the angle to suit different gear.

Maybe I'm talking myself out of the spreader in terms of versatility but on the other hand, as Mark pointed out the spreader can be removed without too much trouble.


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JimP
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Reged: 04/22/03

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: Doug D.]
      #3593138 - 01/30/10 10:58 AM

I have the PLANET coming and I opted for the spreader. I will use the PLANET with Mach1 and TEC 160 F/7 Fluorite, I do not have an extension and will give it a go without an extension first. Will report back to the group after I get it and check it out.

best,

JimP


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maknewtnut
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Reged: 10/08/06

Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: peleuba]
      #3593516 - 01/30/10 01:46 PM

IMO, all of this is yet another perk of the BB tripod systems. As has been discussed, leg angle with either a spreader or tray of a given size, when attached at the same point provides the same leg angle. It's no so much the angle as the spread between legs that will vary depending upon leg extension. Doug mentioned that there is more than one method to achieve a solution that is just right for any given user or even different applications for the same user.

Most of the provided safety chains are themselves adjustable, and this difference in leg spread is exactly why. I have owned both Berlebach and tripods like the Oberwerk HD where I have spread the legs to a very wide diameter in order to accomodate applications where platform height needed to be quite low. I believe this exemplifies that the spreader, while possibly desireable to many, is certainly not THE best choice for everyone or every application.

While personal opinion, one person here stated they felt the snap-on tray a bit annoying. For others, that very feature not only can be, but is viewed as very effective and desireable to others.

Long story short, no matter what any given astronomer might need or prefer to best accomodate their needs(including multiple needs), these tripod systems have the ability to accomodate.

As for the eyepiece tray, a few months ago I let BB know that part could be better if it had both 2" and 1.25" cutouts. While there will always be exceptions to every rule, I believe most astronomers have no need to keep five 2" eyepieces within easy reach. I'll check to see if they have adopted my suggestion. All trays are interchangeable, with the only affect being a change to leg angle(and therefore spread, depending upon leg extension).


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Doug D.
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Reged: 08/23/05

Loc: Virginia
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: maknewtnut]
      #3593601 - 01/30/10 02:30 PM

You're absolutely right about the 2" holes Mark. I ended up having to use 2" to 1.25" adapters in the holes most nights. I hope they listen to you.

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Scott99
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Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: maknewtnut]
      #3593698 - 01/30/10 03:21 PM

my advise is K.I.S.S...have some faith in Berlebach people...the single leg clamps and standard snap-in tray work great! I've been out there with 160/mach1 on windy nights happy as a clam with the standard setup. It is not top-heavy with the standard 37cm tray.

When I first got the pop-in tray I didn't like it either- after a few sessions it got very easy to use though. As I said you just position the legs under the tray attachments one by one, then give a CPR-like push to the middle of the tray and it's snapped in for the night.

Removing it becomes easy too - I loosen the leg clamps on the hub, then put my hand under the tray and deliver one swift pop to the underside of the tray directly under one of the attachment points. It pops off, then you can remove the other two gently by pulling the removed corner straight down to the ground, turning the tray vertical. The other two attachments pop right off with almost no force.


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hudson_yak
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Reged: 11/15/07

Loc: Hyde Park, NY, USA
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: Scott99]
      #3595127 - 01/31/10 09:30 AM

Yes, that's exactly how I manage the tray too. I don't want to overstate the annoyance factor I mentioned before, it's certainly minor. I do believe the spreader will be an improvement though, both for dealing with the tray and for setting up and taking down the tripod itself. Time will tell.

Mike


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peleuba
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: hudson_yak]
      #3595815 - 01/31/10 03:45 PM

Quote:

I do believe the spreader will be an improvement though, both for dealing with the tray and for setting up and taking down the tripod itself. Time will tell.





Mike, Scott, Doug et al:

This a great (and timely) thread. I have just removed the spreader from my Planet tripod. In the stock location the legs were not far enough apart to give me a level of comfort when using the DM6 and the TEC Fluorite.

I think I am going to order the 50cm tripod tray tray and use it and see how it compares to the spreader. I'll also probably get a second 37mm tray. The 37cm tray that came with the spreader does not have the hardware to mount it to the tripod legs; it just screws on to the spreader.


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JimP
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/22/03

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: peleuba]
      #3598359 - 02/01/10 05:46 PM

Just got word that my PLANET tripod arrived at my office this afternoon I was, uh, out on business when it came in...ahem. I am going to try my TEC 160 F/7 with it and the spreader before I make any decisions about changes. Like Mark said, the beauty here is that so many different configurations are possible. I do not have a DM6 so perhaps the tripod with spreader will be right for me. I'll let you know.

JimP


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Scott99
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Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: Doug D.]
      #3600181 - 02/02/10 02:26 PM

wow, I like the looks of that 50cm tray - you can never have enough real estate under there IMO! If you have a short tube that won't hit the legs it looks like a nice option.

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Doug D.
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Reged: 08/23/05

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Re: Which Berlebach tripod ? new [Re: Scott99]
      #3600968 - 02/02/10 08:24 PM

That is definitely a good point about the spread legs with the 50cm, it can (and did) interfere depending on OTA and mount. As you can see though, no problem with that particular assortment of scopes (2 out of 3 I no longer own).

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