Telescope Reviews: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . .

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Pauls72
sage

Reged: 10/28/07

Loc: LaPorte, IN

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#4157771 - 11/02/10 02:40 AM

As has already been stated yes, yes and definitely yes.

I use my C11 on my Atlas for visual all the time and am very happy with it. I have never used the C11 for imaging (yet), only my 8 inch reflector or 102mm Mak. At home, I usually set up on the sidewalk in the yard. It runs north/south and the neighbors big old oak tree blocks Polaris. I do basically the same thing as Skylook123. Here are a couple of tips that may help.

Find a runway map for a nearby airport. It will tell you the difference between magnetic north and true north. Here is one for Halifax, NS. The full arrow points to true north, the half arrow points to magnetic north. The map says the difference was 19 degrees back in 2003 and magnetic moves 8.3 minutes to the east every year. So the current difference is about 18 degrees. Use your compass and point your scope 18 degrees east of magnetic north.

I was cheap and made my inclinometer with a plastic half circle protractor, piece of heavy thread and a fishing weight. Total investment was under a $1.

At the end of a session I make sure and park the mount. I painted some marks on the sidewalk where the three legs go. So next time I bring it out, all I have to do is put the 3 legs on the paint marks, do a quick 2 star alignment and I'm good to go. If you are in the grass or dirt you could bury some bricks or blocks at ground level and make your marks on the bricks.

If I take my C11 & Atlas to an outreach event or star party I have to realign it, but it's no big thing for me.

I bought my Atlas just before the CGEM came out. I do not use EQMOD, but I do use PHD and my laptop to guide when I'm imaging. It's no big thing to have the laptop there, because I need the laptop there anyway to drive the camera. Using the ASCOM drivers for either mount, there are quite a few different PC and MAC programs that will drive either mount and give you some additional functionally. I don't think you would be unhappy with either mount.

Both mounts are rated for 40 lbs. capacity. The C11 weighs 27.5 lbs. Even when you add on an eyepiece, diagonal, Crayford focuser and dew shield you are still only at 32-33 lbs. That's well under the mounts capacity.

That's 33 lbs of counter weights, you will never balance a C11 with only 22 lbs.

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Lane
Post Laureate

Reged: 11/19/07

Loc: Frisco, Texas

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#4157823 - 11/02/10 04:36 AM

Quote:

Gee, with the Atlas at $1249 who's going to bother with the Sirius? It's still $1149.

I can answer that - WEIGHT

The Sirius is a small mount and can be moved around fully assembled pretty easily. If all you plan to use is a C8 or 4" refractor and you're not into AP then the Sirius is a better choice. Obviously there are other small mounts that are much less expensive, but their not nearly as nice as the Sirius.

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Skylook123
Postmaster

Reged: 04/30/05

Loc: Tucson, AZ

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: Pauls72]
#4157906 - 11/02/10 06:33 AM

Quote:

.
.
.
I was cheap and made my inclinometer with a plastic half circle protractor, piece of heavy thread and a fishing weight. Total investment was under a $1.
.
.
.

That sure beats my $7 for a Home Depot wall inclinometer!

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NewAstronomer
Post Laureate

Reged: 09/03/04

Loc: Northeast, PA U.S.A

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: Skylook123]
#4158095 - 11/02/10 09:36 AM

I'd still opt for the Atlas any day of the week and twice on Tuesday. EQMOD is very powerful, and doubly so if you pier/permanent mount. At its current $1249 price its a no brainer. The EQ45 is 22% more expensive, it will hopefully track as well as the Atlas or better, hold as much as a C11 for visual, but weigh more like a Sirius. If those things are true its price is justified.

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NeoZavier
sage

Reged: 03/22/10

Loc: Puerto Rico

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: j.w.white]
#4158152 - 11/02/10 10:02 AM

I have the CGEM for over 2 months and I don't regret it. is a great mount a friend of mine has the Atlas and the Sirius mount and the difference is not much:
1. The CGEM has faster tracking over the Atlas.
2. The Atlas is a quieter mount because uses stepper motors.
3. The GCEM has All Star Polar Align for visual use.
4. 5. The Atlas has EQMOD a free program that is great!

This are a few features that can help you make a decision.

-Orlando

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dawziecat
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#4158296 - 11/02/10 11:18 AM

Quote:

The biggest con of the CGEM is probably a spotty reliability history coupled with declining customer service quality.

I should add that I wouldn't be happy with a C11 on either an Atlas or CGEM. The C9.25 is the biggest SCT I'd put on either mount, even for visual use.
Jim

Jim's first point I have become aware of through this forum and it is troubling indeed. I am unsure what to do about it.
Seems ordering a CGEM is a *BLEEP* shoot. I sort of hope the reliabilty of the CGEMs is getting better after initial teething problems. Wishful thinking?

His second point is the old, never-ending problem of weight, portability and $$$$. Ideally my C11 would be on a pier and in an observatory. There are lots of reasons why this never happened. One is a matter of climate. It is simply too bitterly cold in Canada for too much of the year. This makes observing pretty unattractive to me personally. My C11 sees little use but I still have it. I have SERIOUSLY considered getting a full CGEM 925 and foregoing the C11 entirely. Seems pretty wasteful though. Like all astro types, I fixate on aperture and am very loathe to give it up, especially since I already have it. Who wants less aperture than they already have? And paying for the dubious privilege to boot?

My old fork has gott'a go. Drive corrector is shot in dec and the struggle to mount the thing is another powerful disincentive to use.

So what to do? Yes the C11 is a load for the CGEM. I am not a die-hard imager but, yes, I'd still like to piggyback lenses (including the HEAVY 600/4!)from time to time. I know a heavier mount is really in order for that. And, I'd like to keep imaging options open . . . autoguider capability and the like.

I am rather happy that the next step up in mounts is so high . . .$5000 or so. I am not going there! If it was a progression, rather than a quantum leap, I'd be on the road of ever so slight escalation in costs. Heaven knows where that continuum stops!

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: dawziecat]
#4158329 - 11/02/10 11:33 AM

"I am rather happy that the next step up in mounts is so high . . .$5000 or so. I am not going there! If it was a progression, rather than a quantum leap, I'd be on the road of ever so slight escalation in costs. Heaven knows where that continuum stops!"

Actually, the next step in mounts is the Losmandy G-11 (~$3000 with Gemini GOTO). There also used to be the Celestron CGE (I have one) in the same "affordable 60# payload" class, but it was dropped by Celestron. Notice "G-11" kind of sounds like..."C11"?

You might be happy with a C11 on an Atlas. Others seem to be. I know that I would not be. My 19# TEC 140 is right at my enjoyment limit for my CGE and it pounds my Atlas into whimpering submission. I like an extremely steady set-up; sub-1-second dampening rates after focusing.

Regards,

Jim

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gillmj24
Post Laureate

Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#4158360 - 11/02/10 11:43 AM

Quote:

Gee, with the Atlas at $1249 who's going to bother with the Sirius? It's still $1149.

When I browsed Orion's website it said free shipping on the Sirius. Didn't say anything on the Atlas but if they ship that for free as well it is certainly a good deal!

But if not the difference will be more than just $100.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: Lane]
#4158404 - 11/02/10 11:57 AM

I know why I want a Sirius; it fits my Vixen-configured piers. The Atlas does not. But I already have an Atlas, and if I were going to have just one, I'd pick the Atlas. I don't find the Atlas to be a particularly heavy mount compared to a CGE or G-11.

I just wish Orion would discount the Sirius to the same degree that they discount the more capable Atlas. I plan on replacing an aging CG5-GT with a Sirius/HEQ-5 should either go on sale (or should the dollar firm up any time soon relative to the Canadian Dollar), but I'd like to spend less than $1000 on a new one.

Regards,

Jim

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tboss70
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 11/25/05

Loc: Missouri

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#4158495 - 11/02/10 12:45 PM

Does this include free shipping? Prior to the sale it had free shipping for $1399. If shipping is not included I wonder how much closer you get to the $1399 price???

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dawziecat
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#4158653 - 11/02/10 01:57 PM Attachment (43 downloads)

A Losmondy mount? Well, I dunn'o . . . the old quandry of "where to stop" rears its head.

I will be departing Nova Scotia for Florida in fewer than 48 hours of posting this. The C11 (OTA & dovetail only) WILL be going along for the ride and it WILL gain a new mount soon after our arrival.

What would be a real downer would be spending $1250-$1500 only to find the thing is LESS well mounted than on the old fork and wedge. That would make me very unhappy. A picture of the thing is attached here for those perusing the thread and are unfamiliar with it. I never found the fork/wedge/pod lacking in robustness. After all the 'pod and wedge were meant to carry the C-14.
It would be unhappy for me to find a new mount is worse than the old one.

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dkb
sage

Reged: 07/23/08

Loc: Minnesota

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: dawziecat]
#4159608 - 11/02/10 09:08 PM

Yes, the Atlas EQ-G is $1249 WITH FREE SHIPPING. It appears that it may be a November only sale since that is what it is listed under. Atlas EQ-G Sale

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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: swartzfeger]
#4159662 - 11/02/10 09:33 PM

Both mounts benefit equally from HyperTuning as they are essentially identical inside. One mount has stepper motors while the other has servos. One mount has a more advanced hand controller while the other relies on the benefits of EQMOD. One mount has better latitude adjustment bolts than the other (I have had to cut them out of a number of mounts after they have been bent). A C11 is pushing the weight envelope on either mount and I would not generally recommend it for astrophotography use with that OTA but some people do it. For a very stable configuration, a C8 with a piggy-backed refractor works better. For the cost, either mount can do very well when tuned up and still cost far less than the next step up.

Ed Thomas.

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bardo
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 09/13/09

Loc: US

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

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[Re: EFT]
#4160085 - 11/03/10 02:55 AM

that is one mighty a** lens!

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boardriderz
member

Reged: 08/05/10

Loc: Noosavile, QLD, Australia

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: bardo]
#4235122 - 12/07/10 10:50 PM

I am new to this thread and just read it in the last hour or so, but it seems to me that some people are getting confused with the difference between Polar alignment and go-to alignment. The first of which you need to be able to see Polaris (unless you want to drift align) and is critically important for long period AP, the second of which is more for visual astronomy as your mount can correct for errors in polar alignment by tracking with movement in both RA and DEC.

On the topic of these mounts, I to am looking into both of these and have found the discussion very interesting. Ultimately I am looking at selling my 10" Meade LX200R, which is a great visual scope and getting something a bit better for AP. My question would be, which scope would be better for AP, with no guiding, only good polar alignment and PEC. I wont be using my computer to drive, guide or control my DSLR (that is one of the beauties of them). I am leaning towards the Atlas..... unfortunately the price has gone back to $1399. Have to sell the Meade first. but at least my new AT65EDQ is on the way now for some wide field imaging before I delve into the next topic.... What OTA to piggyback it on.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: boardriderz]
#4235208 - 12/07/10 11:18 PM

Actually, the CGEM has a routine that helps you polar align when you cannot see Polaris. It's called "All Star Polar Alignment". Perhaps that's what is creating the confusion.

Regards,

Jim

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dawziecat
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#4235924 - 12/08/10 10:42 AM

Yes, it is the ASPA that I found attractive about CGEM over Atlas. Notice I used the past tense. The killjoys on this forum have ruined me!

The CGEM has garnered such a bad rep for QC and reliability, as well as being only marginal in its ability to carry a C11 OTA and piggybacked appurtenances that I am licking my wounds and contemplating a more costly mount. Perhaps a G11 Gemini 2 or something even more costly.

In the interim my C11 is "mountless" and useless as it is with me here in FL while the old fork is in Nova Scotia.

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Kellogg
member

Reged: 03/17/09

Loc: NS, Canada

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

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[Re: boardriderz]
#4236023 - 12/08/10 11:30 AM

If you are still interested in getting the Atlas give them a call, I bought one last week after the promotion ended and they still honoured the sale price.

Mat

Quote:

I am new to this thread and just read it in the last hour or so, but it seems to me that some people are getting confused with the difference between Polar alignment and go-to alignment. The first of which you need to be able to see Polaris (unless you want to drift align) and is critically important for long period AP, the second of which is more for visual astronomy as your mount can correct for errors in polar alignment by tracking with movement in both RA and DEC.

On the topic of these mounts, I to am looking into both of these and have found the discussion very interesting. Ultimately I am looking at selling my 10" Meade LX200R, which is a great visual scope and getting something a bit better for AP. My question would be, which scope would be better for AP, with no guiding, only good polar alignment and PEC. I wont be using my computer to drive, guide or control my DSLR (that is one of the beauties of them). I am leaning towards the Atlas..... unfortunately the price has gone back to $1399. Have to sell the Meade first. but at least my new AT65EDQ is on the way now for some wide field imaging before I delve into the next topic.... What OTA to piggyback it on.

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Bachus
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 11/25/05

Loc: Nashville,TN.

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: Kellogg]
#4236315 - 12/08/10 01:40 PM

I bought my Atlas when they offered it with or without the HC opting for the non-HC version. I made a leap of faith and jumped right into using EQMOD and PHD guiding based on what I read and so far pretty happy. Plus I use Cartes du Ceil for my planetarium software and all three work great with the Atlas.

Granted it's not a G11 or Tak but with the EQMOD along with PHD it does a outstanding job. It's pretty solid and can handle the weight. I would opt to change the saddle to a ADM Dual right away and you'll have a nice setup for many scopes out there.

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nemo129
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: WMass

Re: CGEM vs Atlas EQ-G . . . on the brink . . . new

new

[Re: dawziecat]
#4236900 - 12/08/10 06:06 PM

Quote:

Yes, it is the ASPA that I found attractive about CGEM over Atlas. Notice I used the past tense. The killjoys on this forum have ruined me! The CGEM has garnered such a bad rep for QC and reliability, as well as being only marginal in its ability to carry a C11 OTA and piggybacked appurtenances that I am licking my wounds and contemplating a more costly mount. Perhaps a G11 Gemini 2 or something even more costly.

If you can afford it, do the G11 or even a used Mach1. That is a big "if" for most folks, but would be a mount to last a lifetime. That is where I am headed anyway.

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