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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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drksky
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Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #4299230 - 01/07/11 08:10 PM

Boy, I just can't see that mount handling a 50lb OTA very well. It looks like a C11 sitting on top of a CG-5. Scary.

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Garry
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Reged: 10/01/06

Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: Jim7728]
      #4299278 - 01/07/11 08:34 PM

Saw at CES yesterday.
Talked to Kevin for couple minutes, didn't have much time to
spend. On flight home now.
The counter weight bar is larger dia., 22lb wt., might be same as Pro .
The locking clutch knobs are bigger.
I believe adapter was mentioned to attach to what looks like a
Pro style tripod.
There is also a better "chip" for improved performance .

The mount took me by surprise, wasn't prepared to get all
new details.

Looked pretty solid w/C11HD,guider,and camera mounted.

My appologies to Kevin if my recall is inaccurate.

Garry


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Don Allen
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/07/05

Loc: Charleston, SC
Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: Garry]
      #4299333 - 01/07/11 09:02 PM

Would be nice if the "chip" solved the performance issues.

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Jim7728
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Reged: 04/10/05

Loc: Stoop Landing Observatory, NYC
Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: Don Allen]
      #4299376 - 01/07/11 09:26 PM

Thanks for the quick look, Garry!

CES looks like a lot of fun to attend.


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Gord
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Reged: 01/06/04

Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: drksky]
      #4299430 - 01/07/11 10:13 PM

Quote:

Boy, I just can't see that mount handling a 50lb OTA very well. It looks like a C11 sitting on top of a CG-5. Scary.




I think it's all a matter of personal comfort and preference. I don't think it's really a stretch for this setup. I have both the EQ6 and G11, and my first impression of the EQ6 (after having the G11 already) was just how beefy of mount it is. The thing is solid, and the real weakness is the Vixen saddle. Fix that (as here) and a better tripod (certainly a weakness for heavier/taller loads) and it's close to the same league.

Certainly not in quality, refinement, or probably absolute strength or solidness. The machined billet vs. cast has got to swing in favor of the G11. But I don't see this being that much of a stretch, especially for visual. Then again, I actually found my C10N on EQ5 to be actually useable...

Clear skies,


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Gord
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Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: Garry]
      #4299435 - 01/07/11 10:16 PM

Garry, thanks for the live update and confirming some of what people are suspecting/noticing. Definitely was a surprise, but as some have said, I think it makes sense. Minimal effort in terms of development, re-using of existing parts, and they now have something to slot in between the CGEM and CGE-Pro. Nice to see.

Clear skies,


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jason_milani
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Loc: Northeast Ohio
Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: Gord]
      #4299455 - 01/07/11 10:27 PM

Pour yourself a concrete pier and stick a standard CGEM on it. You'll have the same thing for a lot less money. And it STILL won't carry a C-14 comfortably. Next they'll be offering the C-11 on a CG4-DX.

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danielcrosse
member


Reged: 11/12/10

Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: jason_milani]
      #4299499 - 01/07/11 10:57 PM

I think the picture circulating says it all -- not an actual photo. I would be surprised if the mount was not different from the current one shipping. It would seem that bigger bearings would be required to support 50 lbs. It has to be more than just a tripod upgrade.

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Space99
sage


Reged: 08/14/08

Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: danielcrosse]
      #4299860 - 01/08/11 06:03 AM

I think the worm wheel size is more important than the bearings. And that is the major difference between the CGEM/EQ6 and the G11. The Losmandy worm-wheel has nearly twice the diameter. The rotational torque transferred to the worm bearings are much less.

IMHO

Mick.


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Gord
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Reged: 01/06/04

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Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: Space99]
      #4299958 - 01/08/11 08:10 AM

I don't think the worm wheel size has any bearing on the carrying ability. Remember, the mount is supposed to be balanced so that there is very little weight that the motors need to act on. Other than rotational intertia, whether it's 5 lbs, or 50 lbs, it doesn't matter.

The larger wheel will affect the tracking performance though (I believe). But it's not to say you can't have good tracking with a smaller wheel. Just look at the Tak EM200. The Atlas/EQ6/CGEM are all effectively the same. And no one seems to be concerned with the EM200.

Clear skies,


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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: drksky]
      #4300009 - 01/08/11 08:43 AM

Quote:

Boy, I just can't see that mount handling a 50lb OTA very well. It looks like a C11 sitting on top of a CG-5. Scary.




Well, a CG5 - C11 is nothing to be afraid of. I've used a buddy's setup for years and it has never sent us screaming...and has acutually worked pretty well.

As for the C14 on an improved CGEM. No reason you need to be afeared. I believe it will be very similar in performance to a C14 on a CGE or G11. That is...you wouldn't want to try to do "20 hour total exposure time" imaging, but for us aging babyboomers like moi who are almost exclusively visual/short video exposure oriented, this could be a godsend.


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t.r.
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Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: Gord]
      #4300011 - 01/08/11 08:44 AM

The bugs weren't even worked out of the first one, now they're on to the next gen?

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dawziecat
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: rmollise]
      #4300149 - 01/08/11 10:03 AM

Quote:

(In another thread entirely). . .Celestron seems to be on the cusp of resolving the CGEM problems
--------------------
Uncle Rod




Think this DX model could be the "resolution" you were referring to in the IEQ45 thread?

If C could just get the CGEM working reliably, I could be a customer. The electronic problems reported on scare the heck outt'a me. No way I can be sending a heavy piece of gear back and forth from Canada and the US for repairs! Shipping charges would be murder and the customs/brokerage procedures even worse!

Edited by dawziecat (01/08/11 10:06 AM)


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mclewis1
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: dawziecat]
      #4300219 - 01/08/11 10:36 AM

Quote:

No way I can be sending a heavy piece of gear back and forth from Canada and the US for repairs! Shipping charges would be murder and the customs/brokerage procedures even worse!



Agreed that the shipping charges would be a bit nasty and prohibitive for many folks. There is no duty on telescopes and telescope parts. You also shouldn't be charged excessive brokerage fees since the cost of what you are transporting across the border is the rework/warranty repair charges and not the value of the whole mount (which you have already paid for and have proof of). Still, I hate the brokerage situation as much as the next guy.

You also wouldn't be shipping the whole mount for an electrical problem, just the head and the hand controller. No counterweights, no cw bar, no tripod, etc. So the actual weight and amount being shipped should not be that bad.


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Gord
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Reged: 01/06/04

Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: mclewis1]
      #4300228 - 01/08/11 10:40 AM

Agreed. I've gone through it before with Celestron for a mount issue in the past. It was relatively painless, and duties/brokerage/etc. was not an issue. Just the shipping, which wasn't that bad.

Still, it's hopeful that they will have resolved the electrical issues at some point.

Clear skies,


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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! new [Re: dawziecat]
      #4300375 - 01/08/11 12:15 PM

Quote:


Think this DX model could be the "resolution" you were referring to in the IEQ45 thread?





What I was referring to is the fact that the number of reported problems with the CGEM, the standard CGEM, I've seen has declined rather precipitously in the last six months.


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! [Re: t.r.]
      #4300377 - 01/08/11 12:17 PM

Quote:

The bugs weren't even worked out of the first one,




Actually, I think the bugs have been worked out.


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BlueGrass
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Reged: 07/25/09

Loc: Wasatch Front, UT
Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! [Re: Gord]
      #4300398 - 01/08/11 12:29 PM

After all the problems I and others have had with the original CGEMs, I don't have much interest in this 'upgrade'. The various CGEM problems are not something to simply wish away, hoping they've got it right this time.

If you do have to ship it back for service, shipping just the mount and controller in the original box is not insubstantial, it amounts to close to 40lbs.

I don't want to rehash the various problems and what others have experienced. We'll just have to wait and see about the DX. Good Luck to all!



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nemo129
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Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: WMass
Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! [Re: BlueGrass]
      #4300457 - 01/08/11 12:57 PM

I have to agree with George here and with t.r. above. The CGEM was a troubled platform from day one. Have they fixed the issues as Rod said? Maybe in the newer shipping ones, and it is true I have seen fewer complaints in the last 6 months than in the previous year...but that could be due to lower sales of CGEMS due to all if the complaining..hence more Atlas mounts or name your mount here being sold?? (...only Celestron knows for sure). No doubt a properley working CGEM is a very nice mount for the money, the issue is that it was and to some extent still is a gamble to get one. That said, I have purchased my last Celestron mount unless something turns aound at the big "C". I really hope for anyone who buys a CGEM DX that the same issues are not still lurking. One thing I did note was when Garry reported that Celestron said a new chip was fixing the errors...on the Yahoo forum there are folks having a DEC guiding issue (in the South direction) that accoding to the forum members dealing with the issue...Celstron has acknowleged and has promised to fix in firmware. I would hope they would spend some time fixing any existing issues along with pushing new models out the door.

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BlueGrass
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Re: New Celestron CGEM DX- 50lb capacity! [Re: nemo129]
      #4300520 - 01/08/11 01:29 PM

"I would hope they would spend some time fixing any existing issues along with pushing new models out the door."

I too hope this happens, but some problems such as axis binding / stiction may not be finally resolved except with a parts upgrade or replacement. IMHO, if steel ring gears would have been listed in the DX specs, my ears would have perked up... but alas ...

Again, I'd rather this thread stay on track with info and news about the DX, not about the problems of the current CGEM, although the 'picture' of the DX head itself looks identical.


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