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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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dan17
super member


Reged: 03/30/09

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4331650 - 01/22/11 10:27 AM

Sharkman, I think You should buy AP or SB mount, only because they are SERVO. That is another league of mount accuracy, stiffness, pointing, slewing and so on....Their reputation speak for themselves. Of course Tak, Losmandy, or Celestron are still good, but that is not comparable with SERVO. Performance and accuracy will be much much better vs. stepper systems.
I am almost sure , that AP and SB mounts after PEC training will need no guiding when imaging at 2-3"/pix image scale from short and medium exposure times. And that is very big advantage.

Edited by dan17 (01/22/11 10:59 AM)


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: dan17]
      #4331875 - 01/22/11 11:57 AM

Quote:

Of course Tak, Losmandy, or Celestron are still good, but that is not comparable with SERVO. Performance and accuracy will be much much better vs. stepper systems.




Hmm. Celestron uses servos (including on their department store models) So does Meade. Doesn't give them any edge over a Tak or a standard Losmandy.


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kbastro
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 04/20/08

Loc: Running from Clouds
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: dan17]
      #4332455 - 01/22/11 04:04 PM

Quote:

Sharkman, I think You should buy AP or SB mount, only because they are SERVO. That is another league of mount accuracy, stiffness, pointing, slewing and so on....Their reputation speak for themselves. Of course Tak, Losmandy, or Celestron are still good, but that is not comparable with SERVO.




Not true, Losmandy's Titan uses servos and not any servos,, Maxon Servos that offer very high precision and high torque and these are the same motors that NASA uses to equip their spacecraft and planetary rovers with.

http://www.maxonmotor.com/media_releases_maxon-receives-NASA-award-for-Mars-Exploration-Rover-global%20.html

Edited by kbastro (01/22/11 04:07 PM)


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: kbastro]
      #4333182 - 01/22/11 10:37 PM

Any Gemini powered mount uses servo motors. I have a set of Maxons in my MI250. Having servo motors is an upgrade over steppers, however, what makes a premium mount "premium" is the care in which the internal mechanism is machined and put together. The best motors in the world will not compensate for a rough worm gear or a subpar bearing block.

David


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dan17
super member


Reged: 03/30/09

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #4333567 - 01/23/11 03:37 AM

Quote:

. Having servo motors is an upgrade over steppers, however, what makes a premium mount "premium" is the care in which the internal mechanism is machined and put together. The best motors in the world will not compensate for a rough worm gear or a subpar bearing block.

David




Amen


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gdd
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 11/23/05

Loc: N Seattle suburb, WA
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #4334397 - 01/23/11 01:30 PM

Quote:

Any Gemini powered mount uses servo motors. I have a set of Maxons in my MI250. Having servo motors is an upgrade over steppers, however, what makes a premium mount "premium" is the care in which the internal mechanism is machined and put together. The best motors in the world will not compensate for a rough worm gear or a subpar bearing block.

David






Are the Maxon's overkill for the smaller G11 with the OPW upgrade? I know they are more robust than the standard servos, but will they also bump up the performance or capacity of the G11 a bit?

Thanks,

Gale


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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: gdd]
      #4334625 - 01/23/11 03:04 PM

HEllo,

Quote:

Quote:

Any Gemini powered mount uses servo motors. I have a set of Maxons in my MI250. Having servo motors is an upgrade over steppers, however, what makes a premium mount "premium" is the care in which the internal mechanism is machined and put together. The best motors in the world will not compensate for a rough worm gear or a subpar bearing block.

David






Are the Maxon's overkill for the smaller G11 with the OPW upgrade?





Not necessarily overkill - It does bring more torque to the set up, but does nothing to practically impact the net performance of the G11 as far as GoTo accuracy or PE is concerned - regardless of the OPW upgrade.


Quote:

I know they are more robust than the standard servos, but will they also bump up the performance or capacity of the G11 a bit?




Nope.

Regards,

skybsd


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gdd
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 11/23/05

Loc: N Seattle suburb, WA
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: skybsd]
      #4334657 - 01/23/11 03:15 PM

I thought the Maxon's might be a little more responsive to autoguider and pec commands.

Thanks,

Gale


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alrosm
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/27/10

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4335385 - 01/23/11 08:13 PM

I'm gonna order the titan tomorrow , the price is reasonable for a 100 lbs capacity mount, the tracking is ok for what Im gonna do with it and it's capacity is great for the C14, this mount has been tested over the years, and I got a problem with The AP900, its price, what's strikes me is this

AP900gto price is $8750 for a 70 lbs capacity mount.
AP1200gto price is $9950 for a 140 lbs capacity mount.

Please correct me if I missed something but the price difference is $1200 to double the capacity making the AP900 a very expensive product.


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Sharkman
super member


Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: alrosm]
      #4337480 - 01/24/11 06:27 PM

I decided to go with the 900GTO. I placed my order today.

Regarding price: on a per-pound of capacity basis, yes, there is a premium compared to the 1200GTO. However, portability is a big factor for me, so it's worth it in my case. The fact that the 900GTOs will be shipping in February also helped. For a permanent installation, I definitely would have been tempted to go with the larger mount.

Edited by Sharkman (01/25/11 04:40 AM)


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gnowellsct
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/24/09

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4338307 - 01/25/11 12:08 AM

Quote:

I decided to go with the 900GTO. I placed my order today.

Regarding price: yes, there is a premium compared to the 1200GTO. However, portability is a big factor for me, so it's worth it in my case. The fact that the 900GTOs will be shipping in February also helped. For a permanent installation, I definitely would have been tempted to go with the larger mount.





Good choice. I can't believe some of the negatives I've seen about the AP900 here. AP is one of the most conservative companies in the industry in giving out official capacity numbers, and in essence, they always choose LONG weight in estimating capacity versus short weight. A 10" f/6 Newt is more load than a C14. Forget weight, look at how it is distributed.

I actually found that the system pictured in the link was steadier on the 900QMD than on the Titan. However, there are certain non-comparable aspects, the steppers on the QMD allow for a tighter worm adjustment and that in turn makes for less backlash and less potential wobble due to touching the OTA with your hand etc. There are elements of this capacity business that are not fully captured in our discussion here.

here is a c14 and refractor on a 900QMD I use it all the time!

Richard Crisp who is in one of the top notch category of U.S. imagers used a c14+900GTO to break into astrophotography.

It's a great system. Very steady, no bounce.

On another matter: maxon servos on Losmandy products: the reason you get the Maxon servos is that they are much more resistant to burn out and therefore you increase reliability in field use. Virtually all the servos that everyone is using (all companies) have plenty of rated torque. Where they differ is in rated ability to shut down and not burn out when things are going wrong. The maxons are a very good choice for reliability.

Reliability is also meteorological. The Maxons will not "power through" a worm adjustment that is too tight but again in cold weather that adjustment might cause your ordinary motors to stall and then burn out. Your Maxons will have more time to alert the controller to issue a stall message and shut down etc.

Were I inclined to get a go-to system I would get an AP. I occasionally flirt with "upgrading" my G11 to go-to but I let the feeling pass. The pointing accuracy with Argo Navis equals or exceeds most go-to systems and the reliability of the system is outstanding. Most people feel similarly about the AP mounts and I can see why.

regards
Greg N


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gnowellsct
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/24/09

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: gnowellsct]
      #4338311 - 01/25/11 12:10 AM

p.s. the discussion of height isn't really about the mount it's about the pier/tripod. In my estimation the CGE Pro is WAY TOO HIGH. I would think that even if I were six inches taller. (I'm 5' 11').

If you use the SIDE MOUNTING TECHNIQUE there is no issue with hoisting the OTA into a GEM. You may also need to invest in an AP/Casady/BTT style "tip in" saddle to use this technique.

Greg N


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Sharkman
super member


Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: gnowellsct]
      #4338519 - 01/25/11 04:38 AM

How high is the CGE Pro?

I went with AP's 42" portable pier, along with their saddle plate (I'm 6' tall) -- so the side mount technique should work (should be pretty easy for the 11" EdgeHD).


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skybsd
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4338590 - 01/25/11 06:47 AM

Quote:

I decided to go with the 900GTO. I placed my order today.

Regarding price: on a per-pound of capacity basis, yes, there is a premium compared to the 1200GTO. However, portability is a big factor for me, so it's worth it in my case. The fact that the 900GTOs will be shipping in February also helped. For a permanent installation, I definitely would have been tempted to go with the larger mount.




Congrats on coming to a decision..,

Can't wait to hear of your first light outing

Regards,

skybsd


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alrosm
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/27/10

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro [Re: gnowellsct]
      #4341297 - 01/26/11 11:29 AM

You are right, very useful, Im gonna ask cassady if they got for the titan.

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gnowellsct
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/24/09

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro [Re: Sharkman]
      #4341521 - 01/26/11 01:15 PM

Quote:

How high is the CGE Pro?

I went with AP's 42" portable pier, along with their saddle plate (I'm 6' tall) -- so the side mount technique should work (should be pretty easy for the 11" EdgeHD).




I don't have the dimensions on the mount but 42" to where the alt-az adjuster is (on an AP900 or G11 is "about right" in my book--I don't care about an inch or two either way.

The CGE Pro is designed to ride very high. It is so high that it makes any hoist-up-the-tube technique problematic, but "drop in from the top" is a nightmare--saw a guy who had built a wood platform so he could get up high enough. (This particular individual did not want to hear my explanation of side-mounting, which I offered to demo on my own mount.) I'm not sure what the point of this is. When viewing near W or E horizons the scope is already too high at 42". Maybe it's super nice for zenith but not worth the hassles in setup and breakdown.

I think Casady does make a rail for the Titan.

Greg N


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Sharkman
super member


Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro [Re: gnowellsct]
      #4354879 - 02/01/11 04:47 AM

The 900GTO shipped from A-P today. Should arrive here in New Zealand in a week to ten days, after being re-shipped in consolidated freight along with my EdgeHD. Very exciting!

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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
*****

Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro [Re: Sharkman]
      #4355928 - 02/01/11 03:23 PM

Quote:

The 900GTO shipped from A-P today. Should arrive here in New Zealand in a week to ten days, after being re-shipped in consolidated freight along with my EdgeHD. Very exciting!




Very exciting, indeed! But remember...we don't believe until there are pictures. Rules, after all, are rules.

David


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro [Re: alrosm]
      #4356328 - 02/01/11 06:05 PM

Quote:

and I got a problem with The AP900, its price, what's strikes me is this

AP900gto price is $8750 for a 70 lbs capacity mount.
AP1200gto price is $9950 for a 140 lbs capacity mount.

Please correct me if I missed something but the price difference is $1200 to double the capacity making the AP900 a very expensive product.





Actually, I look at it the other way. There is about 40 pounds worth of aluminum difference between the two mounts and about 0.5 pounds of brass. Now, from a materials point of view, just how does this equate to anywhere near the $1200 difference? It is about $100 tops. As far as I can see the AP1200 should be $9950 and the AP900 should be $9850 - and I'll stick with the AP stuff by the way.


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DeanS
Post Laureate
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Reged: 07/12/05

Loc: Central Kentucky
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro [Re: Sharkman]
      #4356397 - 02/01/11 06:35 PM

Quote:

I decided to go with the 900GTO. I placed my order today.

Regarding price: on a per-pound of capacity basis, yes, there is a premium compared to the 1200GTO. However, portability is a big factor for me, so it's worth it in my case. The fact that the 900GTOs will be shipping in February also helped. For a permanent installation, I definitely would have been tempted to go with the larger mount.




Excellent choice

Sorry I missed this earlier. Glad you managed to get one so quickly, just a couple years ago it was unheard of.

Enjoy the great mount!


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