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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Sharkman
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Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro
      #4319704 - 01/17/11 03:10 AM

I'm in the market for a high-quality mount. My application is minor planet photometry / astrometry. I'm leaning toward an EdgeHD 1100 or 1400, perhaps starting with the 1100 and going to the 1400 later on.

I was originally thinking about a G-11, but one downside there is that it can't support the 14" OTA (46 lbs bare) for AP -- which might be OK at first, but means that I would eventually have to upgrade. The more I read about it, the more concerned I am about the accuracy of the G-11, too, even when running TPoint. I also recently heard that Losmandy is now shipping their mounts without being tested after assembly.

So now I'm starting to think about going with a better mount. How would you compare the Losmandy Titan, Paramount MX, AP 900GTO, Takahashi EM-400 and CGE Pro? What are the big differences in features or capabilities from one to the other? Do they stack up neatly by cost, or does one stand out as a better (or worse) value than the others?

Reliability is a primary concern for me. I live in New Zealand, so shipping overseas for repairs is expensive. Accuracy / repeatability / stability is my next priority, followed by ease of use. Long-term resale value is also a factor. I don't care much about cosmetics. I'll be using computer control (still deciding on the optimal software), so the integrated go-to system is secondary to the issues above. Automation would be nice, but it would be "partially attended" (scope within a few hundred feet of operator, not across town). A mount that works well with a tripod (rather than a permanent pier) would be a plus.

Edited by Sharkman (01/17/11 03:24 AM)


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LLEEGE
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Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4319912 - 01/17/11 08:49 AM

I'd start by taking the Pro off your list. It is not reliable and not in the same league as the others you mentioned.

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zawijava
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/06/07

Loc: Wells, Maine 04090
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4319987 - 01/17/11 09:34 AM

Though I'm very fond of Takahashi, and the MX looks promising.....in your situation, with your criteria, I'd go for the AP 900 GTO

Tim

Quote:



Reliability is a primary concern for me. I live in New Zealand, so shipping overseas for repairs is expensive. Accuracy / repeatability / stability is my next priority, followed by ease of use. Long-term resale value is also a factor. I don't care much about cosmetics. I'll be using computer control (still deciding on the optimal software), so the integrated go-to system is secondary to the issues above. Automation would be nice, but it would be "partially attended" (scope within a few hundred feet of operator, not across town). A mount that works well with a tripod (rather than a permanent pier) would be a plus.




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WayneJ
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 08/20/09

Loc: West Chester, PA
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: LLEEGE]
      #4320114 - 01/17/11 10:28 AM

Quote:

I'd start by taking the Pro off your list. It is not reliable and not in the same league as the others you mentioned.




As a fellow "pro" owner, I'd have to agree. Only get the CGE Pro if you NEED to hold a 40-50 lb optical tube and are limited to $5k for you mount.. or if you primarily plan to do visual observation or planetary photography.

Regards,

Wayne


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kbastro
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 04/20/08

Loc: Running from Clouds
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: WayneJ]
      #4320231 - 01/17/11 11:20 AM

Seriously Sharkman;

Either the Losmandy Titan, Paramount MX, AP 900GTO, Takahashi EM-400 will do you fine..

Draw back on the Titan is that it is waiting on the gemini 2 which looks prommising, and the paramount mx is still a new born and requires a computer to run it...

All in all any of theses 4 mounts will do you good and the most problems you will have will be seeing conditions rather than mount tracking problems

kb


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skybsd
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4320385 - 01/17/11 12:35 PM

Hello,
Good to hear from you..,

Quote:

The more I read about it, the more concerned I am about the accuracy of the G-11, too, even when running TPoint. I also recently heard that Losmandy is now shipping their mounts without being tested after assembly.

So now I'm starting to think about going with a better mount. How would you compare the Losmandy Titan, Paramount MX, AP 900GTO, Takahashi EM-400 and CGE Pro? What are the big differences in features or capabilities from one to the other? Do they stack up neatly by cost, or does one stand out as a better (or worse) value than the others?




"photometry / astrometry"? Will you be performing these as part of a research or an educational organization? Or you undertaking this path as a personal, private endeavour? I only ask as it would help to know the equipment payloads that will be installed onto your mount and the associated usage profiles when deployed.

At first glance you see.., I have to wonder if you're really looking at the right models of these manufacturers' mount solutions here to begin with. For instance, at 46lbs (bare OTA dead weight) the C14 is already approaching 50% of the Titan's stated payload capacity, and already breaching 50% of the respective manufacturers' stated capacities for the AP900-GTO (75lbs), Tak EM400 (77lbs) and PMX (90lbs) - and you haven't even added dovetails / rings / imaging train, etc..,

I note you didn't mention the budget you have to work with - for some of these choices, accessorizing to set up readiness comes with additional costs.

Getting away from how you came about your information, if you're concerned about QA issues surrounding the Losmandy G11 ("I also recently heard that Losmandy is now shipping their mounts without being tested after assembly"), I'm curious why you'd still have the Losmandy Titan on your list of candidate mounts.., It is, after all, made in the same shop, made and QA'd by the same people as the G11, you see.

Have a think about what I've said here - particularly about your expected start up be end-game payloads as well as budget, okay?

I'd hesitate to comment further until we're both sure of the same things, really.

Best wishes..,

Regards,

skybsd

Edited by skybsd (01/17/11 01:37 PM)


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LLEEGE
True Blue
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Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: skybsd]
      #4320399 - 01/17/11 12:41 PM

Quote:

and already breaching that of the AP900, Tak EM400 and PMX - and you haven't even added dovetails / rings / imaging train, etc..,


???Huh???

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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
*****

Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: skybsd]
      #4320402 - 01/17/11 12:43 PM

Quote:

For instance, at 46lbs (bare OTA dead weight) the C14 is already approaching 50% of the Titan's stated payload capacity, and already breaching that of the AP900, Tak EM400 and PMX - and you haven't even added dovetails / rings / imaging train, etc..,




The Titan doesn't need to be derated as much as the G-11, and none of the others you mention require derating at all. A C14 and accessories would be no problem for any of those.


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TxStars
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 10/01/05

Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #4320485 - 01/17/11 01:27 PM

Get a Tak EM-500 or a Ap1200 that will hold the C-14 and some extras and you wont need to upgrade.

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skybsd
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #4320488 - 01/17/11 01:28 PM

Hi John (+Luke),
The scope weighs what it weights - there's no getting away from this, and the manufacturer's stated payload capacity is what it is at present. The buyer can but only go with what the manufacturers themselves place in their product specification sheets, not so?

Don't get me wrong, having been through similar in the recent past, I am aware of the "unwritten" capabilities of these mounts, but even when I spoke to AP about the AP900GTO being a suitable video astronomy platform for my C14, there were a lot of questions that came back requesting additional details on what exactly are the additional component payloads that need to be added to the C14 bare OTA dead weight..,

And that's "just" for video astronomy - not imaging in the common sense of the term..,

At this point, I don't feel it wise to presume to know what exactly the equipment payload is likely to be, really..,

Regards,

skybsd


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skybsd
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: LLEEGE]
      #4320500 - 01/17/11 01:34 PM

Hi Luke,

Quote:

Quote:

and already breaching that of the AP900, Tak EM400 and PMX - and you haven't even added dovetails / rings / imaging train, etc..,


???Huh???






I can see how in isolation that cut can be seen to be misleading..,

Here's the complete sentence I wrote:

" For instance, at 46lbs (bare OTA dead weight) the C14 is already approaching 50% of the Titan's stated payload capacity, and already breaching that of the AP900, Tak EM400 and PMX - and you haven't even added dovetails / rings / imaging train, etc..,"

In the above sentence, the that in "breaching that of the..," refers to the "50%" referenced earlier in the sentence..,

Hope that explains what I meant - I'll rewrite to explicitly say what I intend..,

Regards,

skybsd


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: skybsd]
      #4320522 - 01/17/11 01:47 PM

Quote:

Hi John (+Luke),
The scope weighs what it weights - there's no getting away from this, and the manufacturer's stated payload capacity is what it is at present. The buyer can but only go with what the manufacturers themselves place in their product specification sheets, not so?




With SB, AP, and Tak (and a few others), yes. With most others one must derate the manufacturer's figures to guess what the mount can really do. If one of the listed manufacturers says their mount will handle 70 pounds, that means it'll perform to specs at 70 pounds.

My 60 pound-rated CGE will carry the bare C14 for visual use - just barely. My 65 pound-rated NJP carries the C14 and a full set of imaging accessories (around 65 pounds total) very well, indeed.


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skybsd
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Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #4320541 - 01/17/11 01:54 PM

Hi John,

Quote:

Quote:

Hi John (+Luke),
The scope weighs what it weights - there's no getting away from this, and the manufacturer's stated payload capacity is what it is at present. The buyer can but only go with what the manufacturers themselves place in their product specification sheets, not so?




With SB, AP, and Tak (and a few others), yes. With most others one must derate the manufacturer's figures to guess what the mount can really do. If one of the listed manufacturers says their mount will handle 70 pounds, that means it'll perform to specs at 70 pounds.

My 60 pound-rated CGE will carry the bare C14 for visual use - just barely. My 65 pound-rated NJP carries the C14 and a full set of imaging accessories (around 65 pounds total) very well, indeed.




Having seen photos of your rigs and set ups, no argument there..,

I'm curious to know what the OP's total expected equipment list and associated payload is like though..,

Regards,

skybsd


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DeanS
Post Laureate
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Reged: 07/12/05

Loc: Central Kentucky
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: skybsd]
      #4320601 - 01/17/11 02:23 PM

I would suggest an AP1200GTO and there would be no question to capacity, and have room to grow. The additional cost is not too much.

The AP mounts have been around a while and have a proven track record, do not require a computer to operate in case you want to do visual or video. Service/support is outstanding in the event you need something. Bullet proof mounts in general, and since it will be used a long way from its birthplace, that would be important in my choice.

But just my opinion from someone who owns both a 900 and 1200.

Good luck with what ever you get.

Dean


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ZRX-Steve
sage


Reged: 03/31/08

Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4320758 - 01/17/11 03:35 PM

Just to be clear:

The Titan has a 100 pound photographic instrument rating. From the Losmandy site: Photographic instrument weight capacity 100 lbs.


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DeanS
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Reged: 07/12/05

Loc: Central Kentucky
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: ZRX-Steve]
      #4320771 - 01/17/11 03:40 PM

My concern with any Losmandy mount at the moment would be the new Gemini controller. That is when it actually does get in the market.

I had the Gemini L4 and it was nice, but it also had years on the market, who knows how stable the new version will be at first?


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #4320842 - 01/17/11 04:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hi John (+Luke),
The scope weighs what it weights - there's no getting away from this, and the manufacturer's stated payload capacity is what it is at present. The buyer can but only go with what the manufacturers themselves place in their product specification sheets, not so? [/quote
]

With SB, AP, and Tak (and a few others), yes. With most others one must derate the manufacturer's figures to guess what the mount can really do. If one of the listed manufacturers says their mount will handle 70 pounds, that means it'll perform to specs at 70 pounds.

My 60 pound-rated CGE will carry the bare C14 for visual use - just barely. My 65 pound-rated NJP carries the C14 and a full set of imaging accessories (around 65 pounds total) very well, indeed.




What John said. A used NJP would work well, but if you want to buy new and the budget is there, either the EM400 or the AP900. And you can always watch the used market, although used 400s and 900s are fairly rare.

David


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ZRX-Steve
sage


Reged: 03/31/08

Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: DeanS]
      #4320855 - 01/17/11 04:19 PM

I agree with you Jim. Let alone effective integration with all the other equipment like auto-guiders, laptops, planetarium software, programming PEC, etc. I hope they have minimal problems and meet with great success, but I wouldn't want to be the one on the bleeding edge.

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D. Perry
super member
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Reged: 09/28/07

Loc: Southern California, USA
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: ZRX-Steve]
      #4321240 - 01/17/11 06:57 PM

Neither photometry nor astrometry require much in the way of long exposures and perfect tracking, so any of the stated mounts will do. But if you end up going with a 14" SCT and intend to do long-exposure astrophotography, I'd remove the CGE Pro from the list, as has been mentioned.

Titan: A very capable mount but not currently available due to the Gemini's hiatus. They should start becoming available within a couple months.

MX: Not currently available and won't be for a couple months, but probably the best option due to the quality of support and reputation of its bigger brother.

AP900GTO: Available now through AP. They have some units on hand ready for shipping in February. An excellent all-around choice regardless of your application. Proven quality and support.

EM-400: Another great mount but a little on the "niche" side of the market, meaning adapters and parts are a bit more difficult to find than the more mainstream Losmandy, AP, and Bisque mounts.

Good luck in your research and shopping!


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wz2
Most Boring Astronomer...


Reged: 07/30/10

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: D. Perry]
      #4321311 - 01/17/11 07:35 PM

This is such a cool forum.

Until I buy a scope, I remain,

The most boring astronomer in the universe....


Chris


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Sharkman
super member


Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: skybsd]
      #4322096 - 01/18/11 04:37 AM

Quote:

"photometry / astrometry"? Will you be performing these as part of a research or an educational organization? Or you undertaking this path as a personal, private endeavour?



Personal / private, though in coordination with the MPC and other similar groups.

Quote:

I note you didn't mention the budget you have to work with - for some of these choices, accessorizing to set up readiness comes with additional costs.



Well, I was originally hoping to keep mount + scope under $11K or so, but I'm willing to increase that if the benefits are significant. A more expensive mount would for sure keep me with the 11" EdgeHD.

Quote:

Getting away from how you came about your information, if you're concerned about QA issues surrounding the Losmandy G11 ("I also recently heard that Losmandy is now shipping their mounts without being tested after assembly"), I'm curious why you'd still have the Losmandy Titan on your list of candidate mounts.., It is, after all, made in the same shop, made and QA'd by the same people as the G11, you see.



I've mostly heard bad things about the G11; I'm not sure if the Titan has the same problems, hence its inclusion on my list.

Quote:

Have a think about what I've said here - particularly about your expected start up be end-game payloads as well as budget, okay?



In addition to the OTA and the stock finder scope, the only other things I anticipate needing are a dovetail, perhaps a Robofocus, and camera (leaning toward the ST-8XME); the latter weighs about 2 lbs.

I should add that the source for my info about Losmandy, as well as for a positive recommendation for the CGE Pro, was Dr Clay Sherrod (the Supercharge guy). He also doesn't like the Gemini controller, and pointed out that the Paramount requires the TheSkyX.

If I rule out the Pro, the Titan and the MX, that leaves the AP and Tak. The AP is $8750 vs. $9195 for the Tak, plus appx. $1300 for a tripod -- so more than twice the cost of the CGE Pro.

Edited by Sharkman (01/18/11 04:50 AM)


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LLEEGE
True Blue
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Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4322237 - 01/18/11 07:48 AM

And more then twice the performance.

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DeanS
Post Laureate
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Reged: 07/12/05

Loc: Central Kentucky
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: LLEEGE]
      #4322284 - 01/18/11 08:32 AM

AP and TAK are in a different league altogether from the others. Either one is worth the $$$ The titan is a good mount but everyone agrees the electronics is the weak link right now.

AP can be used without a computer if you want to, I like not depending on a computer if I don't want to. AP can have PEC programed, but my errors are so smooth I don't use it when I am guiding. Many adpaters available for different pier/tripod mounting options. Price for accessories are reasonable, and most ship immediately.

Tak is suppose to have a better polar aligment scope, although I never have problems with my AP polar scopes. Tak parts are expensive, at least here.

I think you will find that owners of each mount are pretty loyal, and happy with their choice. Can't go wrong with either.


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Mirzam
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Reged: 04/01/08

Loc: Lovettsville, VA
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: DeanS]
      #4322336 - 01/18/11 09:01 AM

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Mathis Instruments fork mounts. Or do we need portability here?

Fork mounts allow tracking through the meridian without flipping--which is useful for photometry for a variety of reasons.

JimC


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Mirzam
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Reged: 04/01/08

Loc: Lovettsville, VA
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Mirzam]
      #4322345 - 01/18/11 09:07 AM

If portability is required, why not just get a CPC-11 with a wedge? Put the rest of the budget into an SBIG self-guiding camera.

JimC


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DeanS
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Reged: 07/12/05

Loc: Central Kentucky
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Mirzam]
      #4322369 - 01/18/11 09:15 AM

Our local university has a Mathis fork mount and are not happy with it at all. Manily due to the electronics which is the same as the paramount. These guys are not stupid and just can't get it to work consistantly. The mount itself is nice but the interface is their issue. It also is very large, I think it is the 500, but could be a 750. They have a 20" DK on it.

They also do a lot of public programs and it would be so much easier if they had the AstroPhysics electronics where they could control the mount from the handbox. I showed the director how I start up and run both my AP mounts and he is amazed at how easy and accurately I get up and running. Not sure what the fork does to change start up but I know they must do a homing each time where I can stop anywhere, and start back up from there. Their's just seem way to complicated for some reason.


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Mirzam
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: DeanS]
      #4322379 - 01/18/11 09:20 AM

Hmmm. Sorry to hear about that. If they decide to sell the Mathis on Ebay, please let us know!

JimC


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kolsen
member


Reged: 11/05/08

Loc: IL
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4322435 - 01/18/11 09:53 AM

Quote:


I've mostly heard bad things about the G11; I'm not sure if the Titan has the same problems, hence its inclusion on my list.





Hi Sharkman,
I'm interested in buying the G11. What are some of the things you've heard? Any big issues?


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zawijava
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/06/07

Loc: Wells, Maine 04090
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: kolsen]
      #4322597 - 01/18/11 11:18 AM

How'bout a Tak NJP Temma? There is one for sale on AM for $5K, it would certainly carry a C-11+gear.

Tim


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CounterWeight
Postmaster
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Palo alto, CA.
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: zawijava]
      #4322702 - 01/18/11 12:13 PM

Just a note - depending on object arc in sky path, the A-P ( at least my CP3 H/C version)allows for tracking past Meridian... the reason I say 'depending' is that your scope could hit the pier if not careful - but the capability is there in the hand controller. Nice that it 'zeroes it out' when you power down, so you have to invoke it when desired - good for safety.

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DeanS
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #4323015 - 01/18/11 02:37 PM

Good point Jim forgot to mention that, I use the Meridian delay feature often when imaging. I can go upside down for a couple hours before the meridian when I start imaging, this way I do not have a flip during the sequence. How early I can go depends on if the scope clears the pier.

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gdd
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 11/23/05

Loc: N Seattle suburb, WA
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: kolsen]
      #4323079 - 01/18/11 03:11 PM

Quote:



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've mostly heard bad things about the G11; I'm not sure if the Titan has the same problems, hence its inclusion on my list.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hi Sharkman,
I'm interested in buying the G11. What are some of the things you've heard? Any big issues?

--------------------
Keith






Hi Keith,

I am also interested in the G11 and what Sharkman has to say. The biggest problem I am aware of for the G11 is the dual worm block design flaw causing the "76 second error". That is correctable at additional cost by Losmandy or 3rd parties for the G11. The problem should not exist for the Titan which has the corrected design standard.

I have no idea what the QA process is for Losmandy, but no doubt it is not as extensive as for the top-tier mounts.

Gale


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skybsd
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Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4323167 - 01/18/11 03:56 PM

Hello,
Good to hear from you - thanks for taking the time respond to the questions I had..,

Quote:

Quote:

"photometry / astrometry"? Will you be performing these as part of a research or an educational organization? Or you undertaking this path as a personal, private endeavour?



Personal / private, though in coordination with the MPC and other similar groups.





Ahh.., I understand. The reason for my asking is the fact that most research and educational institutions tend to use rather complex (and heavy) equipment.

So there's absolutely no chance that you might be tempted to head off onto another photography direction that requires the addition of other equipment later on?


Quote:

Quote:

I note you didn't mention the budget you have to work with - for some of these choices, accessorizing to set up readiness comes with additional costs.



Well, I was originally hoping to keep mount + scope under $11K or so, but I'm willing to increase that if the benefits are significant. A more expensive mount would for sure keep me with the 11" EdgeHD.





Does that budget apply only to the mount solution - and that you've budgeted for shipping, etc elsewhere?


Quote:

Quote:

Getting away from how you came about your information, if you're concerned about QA issues surrounding the Losmandy G11 ("I also recently heard that Losmandy is now shipping their mounts without being tested after assembly"), I'm curious why you'd still have the Losmandy Titan on your list of candidate mounts.., It is, after all, made in the same shop, made and QA'd by the same people as the G11, you see.



I've mostly heard bad things about the G11; I'm not sure if the Titan has the same problems, hence its inclusion on my list.





I see. The Titan would suffer from the same support delivery and availability problems as the G11 - let's just say that Losmandy isn't known for fast turnaround on support issues. Its less that ideal here in Europe, I can't imagine what it'd be like in NZ.


Quote:

Quote:

Have a think about what I've said here - particularly about your expected start up be end-game payloads as well as budget, okay?



In addition to the OTA and the stock finder scope, the only other things I anticipate needing are a dovetail, perhaps a Robofocus, and camera (leaning toward the ST-8XME); the latter weighs about 2 lbs.

If I rule out the Pro, the Titan and the MX, that leaves the AP and Tak. The AP is $8750 vs. $9195 for the Tak, plus appx. $1300 for a tripod -- so more than twice the cost of the CGE Pro.




If a C11 is able to meet your needs for photometry and astrometry, what exactly are the reasons for considering the C14? If there were no material difference in results to be expected in choosing the C14 over the C11, then I'd suggest you look at the C11 / AP900GTO platform, rather going with the C14.

With the lighter OTA, you leave additional growth for additional equipment later on, should things or your photography direction changes..,

Thanks again.., Hope that helps some..,

Regards,

skybsd

Regards,

skybsd


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Alph
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4323418 - 01/18/11 05:37 PM

I question your decision of selecting the EdgeHD over the ACF or the AstroTech/GSO RC for photometry. Less refractive elements the better photometry. As to the G11, there are many happy users out there, same probably applies to the CGE Pro even to the CGE. The more important issue though is if you are willing to ship your mount back to Celestron if the need arises and wait many months for it to come back, or you would rather call Losmandy and ask for parts and advice how to fix your mount. Toss a coin. One more thing, if you’re a science guy, the Gemini controller will serve you better than a fairly basic Celestron controller. I found the GoTo target synchronization between the Gemini controller and a planetarium software very helpful. Another issue very important for precision photometry is how far a mount can track pass the meridian. It is quite difficult and time consuming to consolidate/reconcile data acquisition before and after the meridian flip.

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freestar8n
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Alph]
      #4323451 - 01/18/11 05:54 PM

If stars are slightly bloated at all due to field curvature in RC or ACF, Edge will have a distinct win in SNR in comparison to any negligible loss due to its extra lenses.

The CGE Pro goes 20 degrees before or past the meridian.

With AllStar polar alignment and PEC, you may be able to do a quick setup and polar alignment that then lets you do unguided exposures adequate for photometry - depending on the length of your exposures.

The celestron controller works well by itself and also works fine with software - in terms of synching or whatever. Plus, you have the option of dispensing with the handcontrol and just using NexRemote - and other software can then talk through NexRemote. The synch. you describe with Gemini is no different with a celestron mount - using TheSky, Maxim, or whatever.

I'm not sure how long the exposures will be or how/if they will be guided - but if guiding isn't too critical then for all sky photometry a fork mount does have advantages - which would point to CPC for example.

Frank


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Alph
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: freestar8n]
      #4323480 - 01/18/11 06:11 PM

Quote:

The celestron controller works well by itself and also works fine with software - in terms of synching or whatever



The ‘whatever’ is a thingy called PC object in the Gemini terminology. The target of the GoTo issued by a planetarium software is captured and saved by the Gemini controller for future reference as the PC object. This is just one of many features that makes the Gemini controller a better choice for an advanced user.


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JAT Observatory
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: DeanS]
      #4323637 - 01/18/11 07:25 PM

Quote:

Our local university has a Mathis fork mount and are not happy with it at all. Manily due to the electronics which is the same as the paramount. These guys are not stupid and just can't get it to work consistantly. The mount itself is nice but the interface is their issue.




I am becoming less and less of a fan of the Software Bisque, but not because of their hardware but because of their business practice. I have found their electronics (the Bisque TCS System) to be very reliable especially the MKS-3000 system. The TCS system is one of the key feature of the Paramount and one of the reason I purchased a Paramount. I upgraded my Paramount to the MKS-4000 and haven't had an issue. I am actually surprised to hear there are unresolved issues especially with their older proven hardware.

I would think Bisque would be eager to help get the root of the problem.


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Phil Cowell
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Alph]
      #4323641 - 01/18/11 07:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The celestron controller works well by itself and also works fine with software - in terms of synching or whatever



The ‘whatever’ is a thingy called PC object in the Gemini terminology. The target of the GoTo issued by a planetarium software is captured and saved by the Gemini controller for future reference as the PC object. This is just one of many features that makes the Gemini controller a better choice for an advanced user.



And there have been no Gemini units since June I think. So advanced it's made with unobtainium as are some critical spare parts.


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DeanS
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: JAT Observatory]
      #4323650 - 01/18/11 07:32 PM

Quote:

I would think Bisque would be eager to help get the root of the problem.




Yes one would think


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kohudson
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: DeanS]
      #4323690 - 01/18/11 07:50 PM

I think the Tak, AP or Paramount would all work. If you are going to operate your scope remotely I would definitely go with the Paramount MX. However, you'll have to wait until it comes out and there is always the possibility of "growing pains" at first. Those "growing pains" may be tricky to deal with so far away...

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Alph
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: JAT Observatory]
      #4323695 - 01/18/11 07:51 PM

Quote:

I am becoming less and less of a fan of the Software Bisque, but not because of their hardware but because of their business practice.



I am considering the Paramount MX. What are potential pitfalls in dealing with SB?


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Sharkman
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: kolsen]
      #4323910 - 01/18/11 09:12 PM

Quote:

I'm interested in buying the G11. What are some of the things you've heard? Any big issues?



What I heard is that Losmandy is shipping mounts without testing them after assembly. I've also heard that the Gemini system has become somewhat of a nightmare for existing owners -- whether Gemini 2 will fix that or make it worse through initial growing pains is TBD.


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Sharkman
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: skybsd]
      #4323941 - 01/18/11 09:29 PM

Quote:

So there's absolutely no chance that you might be tempted to head off onto another photography direction that requires the addition of other equipment later on?



Never say never. I forgot to mention a filter wheel. I might want to try the AO-8 autoguider. Maybe a Televue Powermate. But, a second scope or anything heavy like that is very unlikely.

Quote:

Does that budget apply only to the mount solution - and that you've budgeted for shipping, etc elsewhere?



That's scope + mount. I have shipping, tax, etc, figured separately.

Quote:

If a C11 is able to meet your needs for photometry and astrometry, what exactly are the reasons for considering the C14?



More aperture would allow me to see dimmer minor planets, so it's desirable, but subject to budget constraints.

The C14HD with CGE Pro is about $3K less than the C11HD with AP900GTO.... Using the rule of thumb that the mount comes first, I guess the C11HD setup would be better.

Damn, these trade-offs are never easy -- particularly when the wife is added to the equation!


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D. Perry
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4324044 - 01/18/11 10:21 PM

Quote:

I've also heard that the Gemini system has become somewhat of a nightmare for existing owners -- whether Gemini 2 will fix that or make it worse through initial growing pains is TBD.




The Gemini is not a nightmare. It works and works well. It just has a somewhat dated interface and hand controller. The Gemini 2 won't "fix" much of anything as the menu system is much the same only with a touchscreen hand controller.


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Sharkman
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Alph]
      #4324087 - 01/18/11 10:41 PM

Quote:

I am considering the Paramount MX. What are potential pitfalls in dealing with SB?



One issue I've heard about is that the Paramounts require the use of TheSkyX -- so third-party mount controller software is apparently not an option.


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David PavlichAdministrator
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: D. Perry]
      #4324092 - 01/18/11 10:42 PM

Another alternative?

David


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skybsd
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4324367 - 01/19/11 01:56 AM

Quote:

Damn, these trade-offs are never easy -- particularly when the wife is added to the equation!




Fun, ain't it?

Regards,

skybsd


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alrosm
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Reged: 07/27/10

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: wz2]
      #4324507 - 01/19/11 06:08 AM

I ll wait few more years for the CGE Pro or the MX.

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JAT Observatory
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4325856 - 01/19/11 06:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I am considering the Paramount MX. What are potential pitfalls in dealing with SB?



One issue I've heard about is that the Paramounts require the use of TheSkyX -- so third-party mount controller software is apparently not an option.




My problem with SB is their business model that now requires a yearly subscription fee to get bug fixes. If they don't fix a bug within a year it will cost approx $75 for another year's subscription if they ever decide to fit it. They claim the subscription is for upgrades and new features. If I was considering a new mount like a MX or ME and I had to spend spend $8500 or $14500 to get one I wouldn't expect to have to pay for updates to the software. Currently the ME doesn't come with TSX. It comes with TS6 which SB states on their website as deprecated. The other problem I has is TSX has features that were available in TS6 that are not there in TSX.

In any case I want to correct somethings that was posted. While the Paramount and the Paramount MX require TheSky to be running they can be controlled via 3rd party software if that software supports ASCOM drivers. You just need to select "TheSky controlled scope" from the ASCOM scope properties within the 3rd party software.

The other thing is the MX will use TheSkyX only, while the ME can use either TS6 or TSX. I would consider some mount other than a one from SB.


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lightyear44
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: JAT Observatory]
      #4326148 - 01/19/11 08:42 PM

I love my Gemini. Works very well, and at extremely low Canadian temperatures. I couldn't say that for my Atlas EQ-6. -David.

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Nocturnal
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: lightyear44]
      #4326586 - 01/20/11 12:11 AM

If second hand is an option then you could simply make a short list of mounts you're interested in along with target prices. Then keep an eye on the various astro sites. You might even get one local or in Australia. That's how I ended up with a gem of an EM-400. Then thing is literally like new but getting it used saved me a bundle. Clearly there are some risks with getting used equipment but it may be worth it, depending on your situation.

I haven't had the EM-400 out under the stars yet but I was astonished by the build quality. I'm a detail oriented b@stard and haven't found anything wrong yet. Even simply things like set screws are done right. Properly deburred and greased so that they rotate with juuust the right amount of friction. Little things like that give me confidence the internals are done just as well, or better.

Anyway, keep an eye on your needs and the choices will present themselves. If your exposure times are going to be short an EQ6 will do fine for a C11. Note that long exposure times will work too (I used to do 20m or longer) but the image will be a bit blurry due to the mount wobbling as it's being guided. This may not be an issue with sub minute exposures. Decide if money spent on a mount had better be spent on optics or vice versa. Your needs may be very different from the average 'pretty picture' shooter like me.


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Sharkman
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Nocturnal]
      #4326899 - 01/20/11 08:45 AM

What's a good height for a temporary pier for these mounts? I'm about 6 ft tall, and my back isn't great. I'd like to avoid too much bending over when I'm doing visual work (which won't be that often compared to photography). I've worked with wrong-sized pier/mount combos in the past that have been a disaster.

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skybsd
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4327405 - 01/20/11 01:06 PM

Quote:

What's a good height for a temporary pier for these mounts? I'm about 6 ft tall, and my back isn't great. I'd like to avoid too much bending over when I'm doing visual work (which won't be that often compared to photography). I've worked with wrong-sized pier/mount combos in the past that have been a disaster.




Well., now I'm concerned.., What exactly is the problem with your back?

In your initial post, you were talking about a portable set up based on a C14 on seriously big iron mounting..,

Something's not adding up here..,

Regards,

skybsd


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Sharkman
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: skybsd]
      #4328118 - 01/20/11 06:25 PM

I can lift 50 pounds or so without too much trouble, but I have arthritis in my back, so standing or bending for long periods gives me pain.

I'm trying to choose a system with components than can be broken down into manageable pieces. Currently leaning toward a 900GTO with an 11" EdgeHD OTA. The 900GTO is easily split into two pieces.

BTW, there are techniques for mounting large scopes without having to man-handle them into position.


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Sharkman
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Alph]
      #4328347 - 01/20/11 07:49 PM

Quote:

I question your decision of selecting the EdgeHD over the ACF or the AstroTech/GSO RC for photometry. Less refractive elements the better photometry.



The main reason I'm leaning toward the EdgeHD 11" instead of the LX200-ACF 12" is that I've heard Celestron is more reliable than Meade at the moment -- and reliability is a top priority for me.


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gnowellsct
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: zawijava]
      #4328790 - 01/20/11 11:22 PM

Quote:

Though I'm very fond of Takahashi, and the MX looks promising.....in your situation, with your criteria, I'd go for the AP 900 GTO

Tim







yeah


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Sharkman
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: gnowellsct]
      #4328882 - 01/21/11 12:08 AM

Is anyone here using a 900GTO with an EdgeHD OTA? If so, which dovetail and saddle plates are you using? AP won't guarantee that their DOVELM162 saddle will fit the current Celestron dovetails.

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gillmj24
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4329088 - 01/21/11 05:13 AM

There is only one "Losmandy standard" so you can probably buy a DC11 dovetail plate from Losmandy if you had to.

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alrosm
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: skybsd]
      #4330850 - 01/21/11 10:06 PM

Quote:


At first glance you see.., I have to wonder if you're really looking at the right models of these manufacturers' mount solutions here to begin with. For instance, at 46lbs (bare OTA dead weight) the C14 is already approaching 50% of the Titan's stated payload capacity, and already breaching 50% of the respective manufacturers' stated capacities for the AP900-GTO (75lbs), Tak EM400 (77lbs) and PMX (90lbs) - and you haven't even added dovetails / rings / imaging train, etc..,

skybsd




Yep that's the feeling I got too...


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Sharkman
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: gillmj24]
      #4331194 - 01/22/11 01:54 AM

Quote:

There is only one "Losmandy standard" so you can probably buy a DC11 dovetail plate from Losmandy if you had to.



I know it's compatible with the AP saddle, but is the DC11 known to fit the new EdgeHD scopes?


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dan17
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4331650 - 01/22/11 10:27 AM

Sharkman, I think You should buy AP or SB mount, only because they are SERVO. That is another league of mount accuracy, stiffness, pointing, slewing and so on....Their reputation speak for themselves. Of course Tak, Losmandy, or Celestron are still good, but that is not comparable with SERVO. Performance and accuracy will be much much better vs. stepper systems.
I am almost sure , that AP and SB mounts after PEC training will need no guiding when imaging at 2-3"/pix image scale from short and medium exposure times. And that is very big advantage.

Edited by dan17 (01/22/11 10:59 AM)


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jrcrillyAdministrator
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: dan17]
      #4331875 - 01/22/11 11:57 AM

Quote:

Of course Tak, Losmandy, or Celestron are still good, but that is not comparable with SERVO. Performance and accuracy will be much much better vs. stepper systems.




Hmm. Celestron uses servos (including on their department store models) So does Meade. Doesn't give them any edge over a Tak or a standard Losmandy.


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kbastro
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: dan17]
      #4332455 - 01/22/11 04:04 PM

Quote:

Sharkman, I think You should buy AP or SB mount, only because they are SERVO. That is another league of mount accuracy, stiffness, pointing, slewing and so on....Their reputation speak for themselves. Of course Tak, Losmandy, or Celestron are still good, but that is not comparable with SERVO.




Not true, Losmandy's Titan uses servos and not any servos,, Maxon Servos that offer very high precision and high torque and these are the same motors that NASA uses to equip their spacecraft and planetary rovers with.

http://www.maxonmotor.com/media_releases_maxon-receives-NASA-award-for-Mars-Exploration-Rover-global%20.html

Edited by kbastro (01/22/11 04:07 PM)


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David PavlichAdministrator
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: kbastro]
      #4333182 - 01/22/11 10:37 PM

Any Gemini powered mount uses servo motors. I have a set of Maxons in my MI250. Having servo motors is an upgrade over steppers, however, what makes a premium mount "premium" is the care in which the internal mechanism is machined and put together. The best motors in the world will not compensate for a rough worm gear or a subpar bearing block.

David


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dan17
super member


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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #4333567 - 01/23/11 03:37 AM

Quote:

. Having servo motors is an upgrade over steppers, however, what makes a premium mount "premium" is the care in which the internal mechanism is machined and put together. The best motors in the world will not compensate for a rough worm gear or a subpar bearing block.

David




Amen


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gdd
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #4334397 - 01/23/11 01:30 PM

Quote:

Any Gemini powered mount uses servo motors. I have a set of Maxons in my MI250. Having servo motors is an upgrade over steppers, however, what makes a premium mount "premium" is the care in which the internal mechanism is machined and put together. The best motors in the world will not compensate for a rough worm gear or a subpar bearing block.

David






Are the Maxon's overkill for the smaller G11 with the OPW upgrade? I know they are more robust than the standard servos, but will they also bump up the performance or capacity of the G11 a bit?

Thanks,

Gale


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skybsd
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: gdd]
      #4334625 - 01/23/11 03:04 PM

HEllo,

Quote:

Quote:

Any Gemini powered mount uses servo motors. I have a set of Maxons in my MI250. Having servo motors is an upgrade over steppers, however, what makes a premium mount "premium" is the care in which the internal mechanism is machined and put together. The best motors in the world will not compensate for a rough worm gear or a subpar bearing block.

David






Are the Maxon's overkill for the smaller G11 with the OPW upgrade?





Not necessarily overkill - It does bring more torque to the set up, but does nothing to practically impact the net performance of the G11 as far as GoTo accuracy or PE is concerned - regardless of the OPW upgrade.


Quote:

I know they are more robust than the standard servos, but will they also bump up the performance or capacity of the G11 a bit?




Nope.

Regards,

skybsd


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gdd
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: skybsd]
      #4334657 - 01/23/11 03:15 PM

I thought the Maxon's might be a little more responsive to autoguider and pec commands.

Thanks,

Gale


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alrosm
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/27/10

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4335385 - 01/23/11 08:13 PM

I'm gonna order the titan tomorrow , the price is reasonable for a 100 lbs capacity mount, the tracking is ok for what Im gonna do with it and it's capacity is great for the C14, this mount has been tested over the years, and I got a problem with The AP900, its price, what's strikes me is this

AP900gto price is $8750 for a 70 lbs capacity mount.
AP1200gto price is $9950 for a 140 lbs capacity mount.

Please correct me if I missed something but the price difference is $1200 to double the capacity making the AP900 a very expensive product.


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Sharkman
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Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: alrosm]
      #4337480 - 01/24/11 06:27 PM

I decided to go with the 900GTO. I placed my order today.

Regarding price: on a per-pound of capacity basis, yes, there is a premium compared to the 1200GTO. However, portability is a big factor for me, so it's worth it in my case. The fact that the 900GTOs will be shipping in February also helped. For a permanent installation, I definitely would have been tempted to go with the larger mount.

Edited by Sharkman (01/25/11 04:40 AM)


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gnowellsct
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Reged: 06/24/09

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4338307 - 01/25/11 12:08 AM

Quote:

I decided to go with the 900GTO. I placed my order today.

Regarding price: yes, there is a premium compared to the 1200GTO. However, portability is a big factor for me, so it's worth it in my case. The fact that the 900GTOs will be shipping in February also helped. For a permanent installation, I definitely would have been tempted to go with the larger mount.





Good choice. I can't believe some of the negatives I've seen about the AP900 here. AP is one of the most conservative companies in the industry in giving out official capacity numbers, and in essence, they always choose LONG weight in estimating capacity versus short weight. A 10" f/6 Newt is more load than a C14. Forget weight, look at how it is distributed.

I actually found that the system pictured in the link was steadier on the 900QMD than on the Titan. However, there are certain non-comparable aspects, the steppers on the QMD allow for a tighter worm adjustment and that in turn makes for less backlash and less potential wobble due to touching the OTA with your hand etc. There are elements of this capacity business that are not fully captured in our discussion here.

here is a c14 and refractor on a 900QMD I use it all the time!

Richard Crisp who is in one of the top notch category of U.S. imagers used a c14+900GTO to break into astrophotography.

It's a great system. Very steady, no bounce.

On another matter: maxon servos on Losmandy products: the reason you get the Maxon servos is that they are much more resistant to burn out and therefore you increase reliability in field use. Virtually all the servos that everyone is using (all companies) have plenty of rated torque. Where they differ is in rated ability to shut down and not burn out when things are going wrong. The maxons are a very good choice for reliability.

Reliability is also meteorological. The Maxons will not "power through" a worm adjustment that is too tight but again in cold weather that adjustment might cause your ordinary motors to stall and then burn out. Your Maxons will have more time to alert the controller to issue a stall message and shut down etc.

Were I inclined to get a go-to system I would get an AP. I occasionally flirt with "upgrading" my G11 to go-to but I let the feeling pass. The pointing accuracy with Argo Navis equals or exceeds most go-to systems and the reliability of the system is outstanding. Most people feel similarly about the AP mounts and I can see why.

regards
Greg N


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gnowellsct
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Reged: 06/24/09

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: gnowellsct]
      #4338311 - 01/25/11 12:10 AM

p.s. the discussion of height isn't really about the mount it's about the pier/tripod. In my estimation the CGE Pro is WAY TOO HIGH. I would think that even if I were six inches taller. (I'm 5' 11').

If you use the SIDE MOUNTING TECHNIQUE there is no issue with hoisting the OTA into a GEM. You may also need to invest in an AP/Casady/BTT style "tip in" saddle to use this technique.

Greg N


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Sharkman
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Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: gnowellsct]
      #4338519 - 01/25/11 04:38 AM

How high is the CGE Pro?

I went with AP's 42" portable pier, along with their saddle plate (I'm 6' tall) -- so the side mount technique should work (should be pretty easy for the 11" EdgeHD).


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skybsd
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Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4338590 - 01/25/11 06:47 AM

Quote:

I decided to go with the 900GTO. I placed my order today.

Regarding price: on a per-pound of capacity basis, yes, there is a premium compared to the 1200GTO. However, portability is a big factor for me, so it's worth it in my case. The fact that the 900GTOs will be shipping in February also helped. For a permanent installation, I definitely would have been tempted to go with the larger mount.




Congrats on coming to a decision..,

Can't wait to hear of your first light outing

Regards,

skybsd


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alrosm
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/27/10

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: gnowellsct]
      #4341297 - 01/26/11 11:29 AM

You are right, very useful, Im gonna ask cassady if they got for the titan.

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gnowellsct
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Reged: 06/24/09

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4341521 - 01/26/11 01:15 PM

Quote:

How high is the CGE Pro?

I went with AP's 42" portable pier, along with their saddle plate (I'm 6' tall) -- so the side mount technique should work (should be pretty easy for the 11" EdgeHD).




I don't have the dimensions on the mount but 42" to where the alt-az adjuster is (on an AP900 or G11 is "about right" in my book--I don't care about an inch or two either way.

The CGE Pro is designed to ride very high. It is so high that it makes any hoist-up-the-tube technique problematic, but "drop in from the top" is a nightmare--saw a guy who had built a wood platform so he could get up high enough. (This particular individual did not want to hear my explanation of side-mounting, which I offered to demo on my own mount.) I'm not sure what the point of this is. When viewing near W or E horizons the scope is already too high at 42". Maybe it's super nice for zenith but not worth the hassles in setup and breakdown.

I think Casady does make a rail for the Titan.

Greg N


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Sharkman
super member


Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: gnowellsct]
      #4354879 - 02/01/11 04:47 AM

The 900GTO shipped from A-P today. Should arrive here in New Zealand in a week to ten days, after being re-shipped in consolidated freight along with my EdgeHD. Very exciting!

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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4355928 - 02/01/11 03:23 PM

Quote:

The 900GTO shipped from A-P today. Should arrive here in New Zealand in a week to ten days, after being re-shipped in consolidated freight along with my EdgeHD. Very exciting!




Very exciting, indeed! But remember...we don't believe until there are pictures. Rules, after all, are rules.

David


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: alrosm]
      #4356328 - 02/01/11 06:05 PM

Quote:

and I got a problem with The AP900, its price, what's strikes me is this

AP900gto price is $8750 for a 70 lbs capacity mount.
AP1200gto price is $9950 for a 140 lbs capacity mount.

Please correct me if I missed something but the price difference is $1200 to double the capacity making the AP900 a very expensive product.





Actually, I look at it the other way. There is about 40 pounds worth of aluminum difference between the two mounts and about 0.5 pounds of brass. Now, from a materials point of view, just how does this equate to anywhere near the $1200 difference? It is about $100 tops. As far as I can see the AP1200 should be $9950 and the AP900 should be $9850 - and I'll stick with the AP stuff by the way.


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DeanS
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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4356397 - 02/01/11 06:35 PM

Quote:

I decided to go with the 900GTO. I placed my order today.

Regarding price: on a per-pound of capacity basis, yes, there is a premium compared to the 1200GTO. However, portability is a big factor for me, so it's worth it in my case. The fact that the 900GTOs will be shipping in February also helped. For a permanent installation, I definitely would have been tempted to go with the larger mount.




Excellent choice

Sorry I missed this earlier. Glad you managed to get one so quickly, just a couple years ago it was unheard of.

Enjoy the great mount!


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Sharkman
super member


Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #4360150 - 02/03/11 09:24 AM

Quote:

Very exciting, indeed! But remember...we don't believe until there are pictures. Rules, after all, are rules.




Of course!


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jmasin
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/22/08

Loc: Murphy, TX (DFW)
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Sharkman]
      #4360315 - 02/03/11 11:06 AM

Congrats Sharkman!

I went with the 900 for portability and availability as well. Got mine a week or so ago and it's awesome!

Now just need clouds to clear!


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drksky
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: jmasin]
      #4360540 - 02/03/11 12:34 PM

I'm so conflicted. I certainly can't afford the 900, and I'm on the list for the Mach-1, but I'm wondering if there's going to be a production run soon enough for me (I'm currently without a mount).

Then, there's the G-11 with the Gemini 2. I know it's not a Mach-1, but it's also half the price and should hopefully be freely available in a couple months.

What to do, what to do...


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LLEEGE
True Blue
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Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: drksky]
      #4360689 - 02/03/11 01:34 PM

Mach 1's are in production for summer delivery according to Marj.

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drksky
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/01/09

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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: LLEEGE]
      #4360696 - 02/03/11 01:37 PM

Quote:

Mach 1's are in production for summer delivery according to Marj.




Yeah, I got a very fast email response from the info address that they're next on the machines for late spring delivery. Now to decide if I can choke down $7K instead of $3K.


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blueman
Photon Catcher
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Reged: 07/20/07

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Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: drksky]
      #4360711 - 02/03/11 01:43 PM

The G-11 with the Gemini 2 will be a great mount for medium loads, more than the Mach1 from AP. It is well made, has good PE and can be updated with a One Piece Worm Block for added accuracy, for a small price. This gives better PE and easier adjustments for the RA worm and would be a good upgrade for a minimum investment.
Blueman
Quote:

I'm so conflicted. I certainly can't afford the 900, and I'm on the list for the Mach-1, but I'm wondering if there's going to be a production run soon enough for me (I'm currently without a mount).

Then, there's the G-11 with the Gemini 2. I know it's not a Mach-1, but it's also half the price and should hopefully be freely available in a couple months.

What to do, what to do...




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DeanS
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Reged: 07/12/05

Loc: Central Kentucky
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: drksky]
      #4360985 - 02/03/11 03:41 PM

Quote:

I'm so conflicted. I certainly can't afford the 900, and I'm on the list for the Mach-1, but I'm wondering if there's going to be a production run soon enough for me (I'm currently without a mount).

Then, there's the G-11 with the Gemini 2. I know it's not a Mach-1, but it's also half the price and should hopefully be freely available in a couple months.

What to do, what to do...




You will NOT be sorry you got the Mach1

All the AP mounts are in a class by themselves.


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LLEEGE
True Blue
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Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: blueman]
      #4361000 - 02/03/11 03:49 PM

Quote:

The G-11 with the Gemini 2 will be a great mount for medium loads, more than the Mach1 from AP.


I disagree.

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drksky
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: DeanS]
      #4361007 - 02/03/11 03:52 PM

I'm quite sure I'd be happy with it. Whether I can actually afford it is another story. At least at this time in my life. For the cost of a Mach-1, I could get a Gemini 2 G-11 with the upgraded worm block, high precision worm, PA scope and knob upgrade set and have enough left over for another scope.

AND I could pay cash. I'd have to go into debt for the Mach-1 plus accessories and I'm not sure I want that.


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skybsd
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Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: drksky]
      #4361020 - 02/03/11 03:58 PM

Quote:

I'd have to go into debt for the Mach-1 plus accessories and I'm not sure I want that.




I'm pretty sure no-one here on CN would wish that for you either..,

I'd suck it up and just go where my wallet tells me I have to go.., After all, as nice as they are, you cannot eat the Mach-1 - not even with ketchup, nor can you make a mortgage payment with it..,

You gotta be true to what you know you can afford.

Regards,

skybsd


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drksky
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: skybsd]
      #4361025 - 02/03/11 04:02 PM

I have, in the past carried a lot of CC debt and will be gone this month. It's a huge boat anchor that I'm glad to be rid of. It's wishful thinking that I'll be have on-hand cash in time for the Mach-1 production run.

Some day, just not right now.


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LLEEGE
True Blue
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Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: drksky]
      #4361079 - 02/03/11 04:24 PM

The G11 sounds like the sane choice.

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jmasin
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/22/08

Loc: Murphy, TX (DFW)
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: drksky]
      #4361141 - 02/03/11 04:54 PM

Quote:

I have, in the past carried a lot of CC debt and will be gone this month. It's a huge boat anchor that I'm glad to be rid of. It's wishful thinking that I'll be have on-hand cash in time for the Mach-1 production run.

Some day, just not right now.




I know we're veering off topic but CHEERS to you for that approach!

You can't go wrong not owing the CC company


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drksky
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: jmasin]
      #4361193 - 02/03/11 05:15 PM

Yeah...sorry for derailing the thread.

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alrosm
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/27/10

Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: drksky]
      #4361274 - 02/03/11 05:51 PM

My feeling is that the G11 and Titan are a great alternative if you dont want to buy the gems from celestron, you got what you pay for and AP is better if you can afford it.
Few years ago,I will have waited few more months to buy an AP, but not with this economy, I look around me and I just know it's not the way to go.


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Ad Astra
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 05/12/10

Loc: Riverside Co., California
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: drksky]
      #4361275 - 02/03/11 05:52 PM

Quote:

Yeah...sorry for derailing the thread.




Not at all - affordablility is at the core of most of our struggles to choose the right mount for our needs.

If price were no object, we probably wouldn't need advice except maybe on which mountain top to place our observatory!

I agree whole-heartedly about CC debt - I'm struggling to afford toys w/o interest payments! (Like most of us, I expect!)

Gotta keep the CFO happy! She's the LOML, after all!

Dan


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Don Allen
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Reged: 07/07/05

Loc: Charleston, SC
Re: Titan vs. MX vs. 900GTO vs. EM-400 vs. CGE Pro new [Re: Ad Astra]
      #4366287 - 02/05/11 08:29 PM

I think the minute the G-11 arrives you would forget about the AP and have a few grand in your pocket.

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