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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: 10Micron new [Re: psandelle]
      #6318686 - 01/17/14 01:37 PM

Quote:

There was a time I was thinking of getting a modded DSLR, one of them PC-less guiders (which I still haven't heard are that great) and head out to the wilds with a smaller battery and a solar charger, and voila: the ultimate survivalist rig.
Paul




That is exactly what the LX850 is supposed to do for you. All you need is a battery and your camera and you are ready to roll.


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Per Frejvall
sage


Reged: 09/28/12

Loc: Saltsjöbaden, Sweden
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Starhawk]
      #6319371 - 01/17/14 08:10 PM

Starhawk, I am sorry, but I do not get the message here. Could you please elaborate. In what way is the 10Micron controller "mount aware"? What is with the "won't survive a power outage"? "Driving into the pier"???

You lost me...

/per


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famax
member


Reged: 07/01/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Per Frejvall]
      #6319445 - 01/17/14 09:02 PM

Hello,
I did made succesive setup mount/dismount on my balcony the last week, about five time. Complete dismount : pier , mount, scope, etc...

The polar alignement results in one iteration are between 45" and 15".

Tonight i managed to obtain what i think is a good model even with the small number of plate solve made :
click for full image



this gave good 20' unguided subs :
click for full image


you can find a fit of this frame here :

http://fdx75.free.fr/public/astro/10%b5/test/M42-001L_5.fit

3.5" of fwhm is somehow fine for my site.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Per Frejvall]
      #6319707 - 01/18/14 12:20 AM

Fair enough:

Mount Aware- the controller boots with direct feedback from the encoders. So, even if the mount is in an unusual configuration (e.g. on an object and not in a park position), the controller knows where it is pointed, so if you order it to go to an object to realign it, it goes straight to that object.

What Doesn't survive- If you have the mount lose power, the pointing model needs to be redone when it comes back up.

Driving into the pier- what it didn't do.

-RIch

Quote:

Starhawk, I am sorry, but I do not get the message here. Could you please elaborate. In what way is the 10Micron controller "mount aware"? What is with the "won't survive a power outage"? "Driving into the pier"???

You lost me...

/per




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orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Starhawk]
      #6319789 - 01/18/14 02:02 AM

Since the 10Micron uses a Linux controller, it does have a "booting" cycle. I doubt it would instantaneously be ready to go - Linux takes some time to boot.

If the controller in there is something along the lines of a Raspberry Pi or BeagleBoard, it would take anywhere from 10-30 seconds to boot.

Still not bad of course.


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Per Frejvall
sage


Reged: 09/28/12

Loc: Saltsjöbaden, Sweden
Re: 10Micron new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6319820 - 01/18/14 03:05 AM

Ah! Got it! My blood level in the alcohol must have been slightly on the low side when I got home last night

I read you loud and clear.

Now, in my observatory startup script I give the mount two minutes to boot up before I attempt to talk to it. The real boot-up time is about a minute and a half for the GM2000 (the on-board computer of that one is about twice as slow as the GM1000) and slightly less for the GM1000.

It sure is mount aware and cannot get lost, and it will instantly adhere to the "stop tracking at nn degrees past the meridian" rule.

The pointing/tracking model survives anything short of a nuclear meltdown.

/per


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psandelle
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Per Frejvall]
      #6320293 - 01/18/14 11:34 AM

Per - shame on you for not keeping up on the drinking. That will lead to sobriety, and you NEVER want that!

Can you save your tracking/pointing models on your PC (if using your software)?

Paul


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Per Frejvall
sage


Reged: 09/28/12

Loc: Saltsjöbaden, Sweden
Re: 10Micron new [Re: psandelle]
      #6320487 - 01/18/14 01:10 PM

Sorry, Paul, but I did. If notice in my post I say "blood level in the alcohol was getting low"...

The Az/Alt coordinates of the desired points can be saved and loaded from files. In the next generation of Model Maker I am implementing batch model downloads to the mount. I am also adding support for shooting the plates separately and then plate-solving them later. Once they are solved they can be downloaded to the mount.

The firmware support for this has just become available.

/per


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Hilmi
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Per Frejvall]
      #6320700 - 01/18/14 03:02 PM

Plate solving via the sky x pro is a nice option to add for those who dont have pinpoint. I dont own any 10 micron mount but I still feel its a nice feature for your software to add.

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Tonk
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Hilmi]
      #6327805 - 01/22/14 08:26 AM

Quote:


Quote:

However, most people taking astro photos use CCD cameras.




That is simply not true!

Guylain




Cloudy Nights provides some good numbers that would indicate that its probably about 50:50 (assuming that each forum has an equal weight of "nice picture dude" posts)

Code:

Threads Posts
DSLR & Digital Camera Astro imaging: 28040 258584
CCD Imaging and Processing: 26306 248056



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Tonk
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Tonk]
      #6327832 - 01/22/14 08:47 AM

As to the earlier sneering about "going manual" to set up the the mount (quite a few pages back now) - I will reiterate that is an extremely easy mount to set up to a high pointing model accuracy and PA accuracy (both better than 20" error) in just 20 to 30 minutes - ideally done during twilight - and doesn't need anything more than an astrometric eyepiece to accomplish.

So anyone looking for a totally standalone mount (meaning no extra laptop /software needed) that goes unguided up to at least 10 minutes, that can be rapidly setup in the field then the 1000HPS is the mount that can do this very very well. In this respect it is set apart from the 2000, 3000, 4000HPS which are really observatory mounts.

The 1000HPS can be likened to the smaller Losmandy mounts with the Gemini I/II controller (another standalone system) but on steroids performance wise! It is set well apart from the Losmandy mounts in this respect but otherwise the functionality and operation of the controllers is very similar.


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HowardK
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Tonk]
      #6338434 - 01/27/14 10:19 AM

Hi Tonk.

Are you saying here that the 2000 needs Per's modeling software to perform.

Or will an accurate say 3+5 alignment and accurare polar alignment done thru the hand controller suffice for 10 mins unguided with really accurate goto's.

Am considering the 2000 btw to replace my CGE PRO sometime this year.
But as i do not use a computer nor want to bother with maxim dl and model building all this talk of Per's software has me worried how the 2000 performs out of its box so to speak.


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #6338447 - 01/27/14 10:29 AM

Quote:

Hi Tonk.

Are you saying here that the 2000 needs Per's modeling software to perform.

Or will an accurate say 3+5 alignment and accurare polar alignment done thru the hand controller suffice for 10 mins unguided with really accurate goto's.

Am considering the 2000 btw to replace my CGE PRO sometime this year.
But as i do not use a computer nor want to bother with maxim dl and model building all this talk of Per's software has me worried how the 2000 performs out of its box so to speak.




What Per's software does is completely automate the process for those people who want to go hands-off. It also leaves the calibration alignment process up to the computer which can arguably be even more precise than the human operator. It is not a requirement, but instead augments an excellent process that is already built into the mount and the mount's external software (when used). In general, it is recommended to get at least 20-25 alignment stars to start unguided imaging. Gotos are highly accurate with only a few stars, but for dual axis tracking and correction, the larger model is better.


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Tonk
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: 10Micron new [Re: EFT]
      #6338509 - 01/27/14 10:56 AM

Quote:

But as i do not use a computer nor want to bother with maxim dl and model building all this talk of Per's software has me worried how the 2000 performs out of its box so to speak.




I don't use Per's software. Its not a requirement as I pointed out above - its a tool for the lazy See my more detailed answer to your question on the other thread ("10Micron club - I'm in").

Just to make it clear the 1000HPS and 2000HPS use the same controller and handpad - so whats said for one applies to the other - differences are mechanical - imaging load, max slew rate etc


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HowardK
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Tonk]
      #6338600 - 01/27/14 11:57 AM

Thanku Ed and Tonk.

Sounds like 2 or 3 iterations at alignment with 10-15 stars used each time (depending on how lazy or impatient i feel at the time) will get things working real well, real quick.


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GIR
super member


Reged: 01/02/10

Loc: Finland
Re: 10Micron new [Re: EFT]
      #6338661 - 01/27/14 12:25 PM

Quote:

In general, it is recommended to get at least 20-25 alignment stars to start unguided imaging. Gotos are highly accurate with only a few stars, but for dual axis tracking and correction, the larger model is better.




Mounts with absolute encoders use the model for both purposes, gotos and tracking. Gotos are not a problem with a rather small model but if you want to do tracking properly you should make a rather large model to cover the whole sky ...or build a local model which is possible (as far as I know)only with one mount manufacturer's software at the moment.

I have a permanent setup and am using a 120 point model for the unguided imaging. I also add a 5-10 point local model on top of that sometime when the target is located in low alt position.


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Tom Polakis
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/20/04

Loc: Tempe, Arizona
Re: 10Micron new [Re: GIR]
      #6339064 - 01/27/14 03:52 PM

Quote:

I have a permanent setup and am using a 120 point model for the unguided imaging. I also add a 5-10 point local model on top of that sometime when the target is located in low alt position.





Are the 5 to 10 points for low altitude modeled to deal with refraction? One thing that has bugged me about the concept of unguided imaging is that refraction is significant for large-scale imaging at moderately high altitudes, like 30 degrees. Even if you have perfect polar alignment and the mount can eliminate periodic error, how do these closed-loop mounts deal with refraction? Thanks.

Tom


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Tonk
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Tom Polakis]
      #6339078 - 01/27/14 04:02 PM

Quote:

Even if you have perfect polar alignment and the mount can eliminate periodic error, how do these closed-loop mounts deal with refraction? Thanks.




For the 10Micron controller you input site altitude (or use a GPS receiver) and/or the current barometric pressure. So you need a good barometer for best accuracy!

These inputs are for the refraction part of the tracking equation. If you don't add the measured pressure but just the site altitude it assumes a standard sea level pressure


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HowardK
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Tonk]
      #6339319 - 01/27/14 06:05 PM

Can anyone explain the firmware and software updating process for the 2000 HPS.

The 10 micron forum will not let me onto the firmware thread.


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #6339402 - 01/27/14 06:45 PM

Quote:

Can anyone explain the firmware and software updating process for the 2000 HPS.

The 10 micron forum will not let me onto the firmware thread.




I'm not sure why you can't get into the thread, but it may be limited to registered owners I suppose. The firmware is updated through a firmware updater program that is run with a connection to the mount computer. I don't know if the connection can be either wired or wireless, but my general recommendation would always be to use a wired connection when updating firmware. Program updates are installed through .exe executable files.


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