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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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HowardK
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4405623 - 02/23/11 09:52 AM

I would always look at the worst case scenario, Emanuele,...it is obvious that Immo could not guide and i cannot commit thousands of euros in case this worst case happens to me....too many bad experiences with mounts...I must be certain that the next one I buy will be the one I keep...i will speak with 10 Micron and see what they have to say.....your reference to me being Immo is infintile and reveals your closed mindedness....I am happy though that you love your mount

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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4405637 - 02/23/11 10:02 AM

Too many bad exoeriences? Which one are the others? Because in this thread you have 1 bad experience with a non standard scope, really. As I said, Immo and Dietmar shared the observatory and they had 1 mount.

Again. They have no idea if their problem was their own setup, and moreover if the apparent problem is up to date.

I am not trying to convince you to buy a10Micron mount, at all. Do what you think its best for you.
I am just trying to point out that there's something really strange going on in is thread against 10Micron for some strange reason.


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HowardK
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4405648 - 02/23/11 10:07 AM

Ok...i think to end this now is best.......speaking with the manufacturers will help me with my decision

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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4405675 - 02/23/11 10:23 AM

Hi Emanuele,

I'm really wondering about you arguments !
First of all, I think we know each other from
various mails & PN's with other topics (the last at a.de).
I thought, we foster a good relationship. Now, we have one topic with different experiences. So I can't see a big problem. As I wrote, I accept your and the comments from other users, which have made good experiences with the 10 Micron. But I'm sorry, that we tried both Mounts without success. Aim was high resolution imaging. That means for us a guiding-accuracy from max. +-0.5" for Lum.
So that you assume HowardK and me is the same person,
is more than strange. So there is nothing like a complot or anything else. We have only made our experiences with this mounts - that's all. We have had TWO 10 Micron Mounts. First we used the GM2000.
As she showed the reported Guiding error, we supposed,
that she may be on her limit with the 9" TMB APO. So, we decided to get a upgrade to the GM4000. As I have shown, the same problem occurred.

Thats all !

Best Regards

Immo

P.S.

I think also, it's the best for all, to close this thread now !
Cause I think it's time to quiet our minds. At the end of the
day, I will not have trouble with Emanuele and the others caused
by a thread called 10Micron. So thats my last statement in this topic.

Edited by darkforce (02/23/11 10:36 AM)


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geissi
member


Reged: 12/28/06

Loc: Germany
Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4406051 - 02/23/11 01:21 PM

Hello,

my name is Rolf Geissinger and I am a member of the 10micron beta tester team. Baader-Planetarium authorized me to give a statement in their name until their CN account is verified in order to get the users informed on time.



Unfortunately Mr. Gerber left the project of
betatesting and gave the mount back before we could finalize the work in finding his problem.
Mr. Gerber worked with firmware version around 1.7.2 - meanwhile there have been different new
releases. 2.7.9 is the actual firmware version which certainly is much advanced - but this was not
the source of Mr.Gerberīs problem.

Mr. Gerberīs mount was shipped back to the factory 10 Micron where it got a very thorough examination.
The mount was performing very well when tested at the manufacturer, not any "jumps" during guiding/tracking
were detectable. To solve the mystery, the software engineer examined the tracking logs again that Mr. Gerber
had e-mailed while he was a member of the Betatester team. It was found that the biggest jumps were due
to some strange interrupts in the signal from the guider that "freezed" the guiding commands.

The reason for this behaviour was caused by an outside phenomenon, probably induced from somewhere else
into the electronics. Most likely due to the camera or PC, guiding head, power source, switches, cables - we
cannot say where exactly but definitely not in the mount.It was a unique problem in the equipment/configuration.

Mr. Gerber was not aware of this at this time and we have not been aware at this time too because we could not
directly test it as the mount was remotely used somewhere in France. This is also a logical explanation for the
fact that there are not any other customer reporting about such extreme behaviour of their mounts.

Mr. Gerber is right, some of the betatester team experienced jumps too a year ago, but nowhere that big and
certainly not that much.

The reason for those small jumps was analyzed to be a universal problem of any worm wheel drive - namely
"static friction" (stiction) - happening in the very moment when the DEC motor starts to make a guiding correction.
Every mount with worm-gear drive is affected by stiction. The new firmware 2.7.9 has the function of
"stiction compensation" which allows to finetune the drive in a way that when the motor starts it overcomes this
"stiction" almost completely.

Furthermore the newest firmware version enables "dual axis guiding", meaning that the declination axis is
contiunuously working in ever so miniscule increments so that no static friction jumps can occur. With these
new tools and the newly developed "Advanced PEC" (A-PEC), the drive is working very smoothly, that explains
that users report guiding accuracies around 1"-2" - without any jumps.

The new firmware also enables the GM mounts to run much higher slewing speeds so that they are now able to
track satellites ( without any PC or Laptop attached ) - for example please check Mr. Duins photo of an Ariane
rocket stage:

http://www.10micron.de/kundenzitate_htm/duin_erfahrungsbericht.htm

If 10micron mounts would generally create "jumps" of eight seconds while tracking - or cause similar problems -
they would have a hard time to sell the mounts and fight against all the complains of the customers.

This is not the case.

The HPS mounts with high accuracy encoders will be available as a second, higher priced product
line from May/June this year on. They are very interesting for those customers which donīt have an observatory
and are using mobile equipment. The HPS mount line is not a replacement, it is a new product category
that fills a gap on the marked.

Best Regards
Rolf Geissinger


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HowardK
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: geissi]
      #4406202 - 02/23/11 02:28 PM

At last.......somebody with the answer to Immo's problem......i think Immo has a lot to learn from this.......to seriously put down a product without knowing the full outcome of the manufacturer's report on his 2 mounts...is irresponsible in the least......if I were10 Micron I would be most upset....mind you 10 Micron should have notified Immo of the results so he would have realsed that the mount itself was not at fault.

Thanku Ralph....my confidence is restored


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HowardK
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4406220 - 02/23/11 02:35 PM

I meant Rolf not Ralph

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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4406250 - 02/23/11 02:49 PM

Thank you Rolf once again for chiming in and with Mr.Baader authorization to release this information.

I apologize to HowardK for anything wrong (against him) I have said in my posts. But you can't believe the frustration to hear those accusations and knowing of how good the mount is.

Clear skies to all.
E.


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HowardK
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4406637 - 02/23/11 05:56 PM

Apology accepted

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MAURITS
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Belgium
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4414516 - 02/27/11 09:41 AM

When I look on the site from 10MICRON there is the "GM2000-HPS" mount, with a movie (rotation demo), and it goes very FAST!

The "black" color is very nice to see.

BUT what I can't seen is a sort of the "QCI control System", or is it something else?

With the "GM2000 QCI" there was a controller integrated into the base of the mount!

Is it a 2-Piece Mount Head?

Any way, I find it a very "beautiful" and "functional" mount!


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4414744 - 02/27/11 12:04 PM

Maurits,

yep, the slew speed with the new firmware (i have 2.7.6) has been brought up to 20 deg/ sec.
I usually use 10 deg / sec and it is more than enough. It is kind of scary to see the scope moving around so fast.

If I am not mistaken the only thing that changed in the new HPS mounts is the added encoders and the cable management.

It is still a 2 piece mount (UltraPortable version).


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MAURITS
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Belgium
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4414804 - 02/27/11 12:33 PM

Emanuelle, thanks for the quick reply!

Do you think that the "GM2000 HPS" uses the same controller and software like the "GM2000 QCI"?

Is there also a hand terminal available?

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=N6GvuO_9tLY&vq=medium

When you look around the "centaurus" tripod, there isn't a terminal like by the QCI.

10MICRON 2000 HPS


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MAURITS
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Belgium
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4415317 - 02/27/11 04:48 PM

In the above post you can see that there is a difference in the "base" of the GM2000HPS.

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MAURITS
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Belgium
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4416468 - 02/28/11 07:56 AM

I have been looking very good to the base of the GM2000 HPS mount and I "think" that the "QCI control module" is the same separate (with the last software version) as by the GM2000 QCI.

I "think" you can move this module from the centaurus tripod, isn't it?


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Dennis Sakva
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/19/04

Loc: Kiev, Ukraine
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4416534 - 02/28/11 08:51 AM

Howard,
It's often hard to deduce if the problem is mechanical/electrical/firmware/software or a combination of three.


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geissi
member


Reged: 12/28/06

Loc: Germany
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Dennis Sakva]
      #4416925 - 02/28/11 12:29 PM

Hello Maurits,

the new 10micron HPS-Mount can be purchased with a separate controller box or with an integrated box as well. Both options are still available. The controller hardware and firmware are (nearly) the same as with the GM2000 QCI.

The mount is available as a "one-piece" monolithic as well as a "two-piece" separatable version.

The handcontroller and the software handling will be the same as in the "normal" GM-mounts.

Mechanics, look-and-feel and electronics of the HPS are nearly the same as in te QCI-Version (except the built in encoders of course)

For further information please contact
baader-planetarium.de

e-mail: kontakt(at)baader-planetarium.de

Best Regards
Rolf Geissinger

Edited by geissi (02/28/11 12:33 PM)


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MAURITS
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Belgium
Re: 10Micron new [Re: geissi]
      #4416974 - 02/28/11 12:49 PM

Rolf, thanks so much for the valuable information!

Because after I've read your experience message (in German), I got a confidence in this product!


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Joe Cipriano
Entropy Personified
*****

Reged: 09/03/05

Loc: Uh... anyone have a GPS?
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4417077 - 02/28/11 01:43 PM

I'm curious about the new GM1000 HPS (price & capacity).
The tracking error graph is impressive - although the ad text differs from the graph, stating 4" p-p (still darn impressive).


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
*****

Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Joe Cipriano]
      #4417355 - 02/28/11 04:10 PM

Hey Joe....deep dish, anyone? I've never seen the mount in action, but I gave it a good look-see at last year's AIC. If fit, finish and beauty count for anything, this mount is a winner! It's a piece of artwork for someone that's a mount junkie. You can see that extra care is taken when producing the thing.

It looked very much like the quality of the Planewave mount which is another dandy. But the 10 Micron is a winner in my eyes.

David


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geissi
member


Reged: 12/28/06

Loc: Germany
Re: 10Micron new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #4417402 - 02/28/11 04:35 PM

Hello Joe,

just I got the latest info concerning the new GM1000.

weight: 18kg
load capacity: 25kg
Build in high res encoders.


Regards
Rolf


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