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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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TORSTI
member


Reged: 12/11/08

Loc: Finland, Vantaa
New mount from Germany
      #4547010 - 04/27/11 02:44 AM

Hi. Too big for me, but good looking and plausible mount, made by Berlebach in co-ordination with House of optics Germany.

http://shop.hoo-germany.de/product_info.php/info/p501_Ecuatorial-Mount-HoOLN1.html

Jyrki


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orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: TORSTI]
      #4547024 - 04/27/11 03:10 AM

14 arc-seconds PE. For the price ($5K euro) one would imagine better PE...

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gustavo_sanchez
sage


Reged: 12/30/10

Loc: Puerto Rico, US
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: orlyandico]
      #4547250 - 04/27/11 08:37 AM

I could not see any 14 arc-second PE... it says "+/- 7" or better". That's different to 14" PE...

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Tapio
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/24/06

Loc: Tampere, Finland
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: gustavo_sanchez]
      #4547287 - 04/27/11 09:08 AM

Doesn't +/- 7" periodic error mean just 14" total PE ?

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: gustavo_sanchez]
      #4547288 - 04/27/11 09:09 AM

+/- 7 seconds isn't a tolerance; it is 14 arc seconds peak to peak. This means this mount has twice the periodic error of an Astro Physics Mach1 GTO at a higher price.

-Rich


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Tapio
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/24/06

Loc: Tampere, Finland
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: Starhawk]
      #4547549 - 04/27/11 11:55 AM

There is some difference in load capacity -
HoO LN1 (they could have made up a better name) 35 kg/77 lbs
AP Mach1 20 kg/45 lbs


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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: TORSTI]
      #4548111 - 04/27/11 04:40 PM

Quote:

Hi. Too big for me, but good looking and plausible mount, made by Berlebach in co-ordination with House of optics Germany.

http://shop.hoo-germany.de/product_info.php/info/p501_Ecuatorial-Mount-HoOLN1.html

Jyrki




At that list price, with those PE numbers - I don't get it.., I'll keep my AP, thanks..,

Regards,

skybsd


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orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: Starhawk]
      #4548531 - 04/27/11 08:54 PM

Quote:

+/- 7 seconds isn't a tolerance; it is 14 arc seconds peak to peak. This means this mount has twice the periodic error of an Astro Physics Mach1 GTO at a higher price.

-Rich




Exactly my point. I believe for that price (5K Euro) you can already get an AP900, which would have about the same carrying capacity (and <1/2 the PE).

Although TBH I believe AP mounts cost a lot more in Europe, hence this would be a better deal for Europeans..


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jmiele
Patron Saint?
*****

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: orlyandico]
      #4548564 - 04/27/11 09:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

+/- 7 seconds isn't a tolerance; it is 14 arc seconds peak to peak. This means this mount has twice the periodic error of an Astro Physics Mach1 GTO at a higher price.



-Rich




Exactly my point. I believe for that price (5K Euro) you can already get an AP900, which would have about the same carrying capacity (and <1/2 the PE).

Although TBH I believe AP mounts cost a lot more in Europe, hence this would be a better deal for Europeans..




7 arc sec P2P is the PE is the publish number. Most AP900/1200's are well below 5 arc sec P2P with PEC off. My AP900 is 3.62 arc sec P2P out of the box PEC off.

A Mach I would give similar results IMO..
Joe

Edited by jmiele (04/27/11 09:14 PM)


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blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: jmiele]
      #4548690 - 04/27/11 10:31 PM

The PE is +- 7", so it is 14" PE not 7".
Blueman
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

+/- 7 seconds isn't a tolerance; it is 14 arc seconds peak to peak. This means this mount has twice the periodic error of an Astro Physics Mach1 GTO at a higher price.



-Rich




Exactly my point. I believe for that price (5K Euro) you can already get an AP900, which would have about the same carrying capacity (and <1/2 the PE).

Although TBH I believe AP mounts cost a lot more in Europe, hence this would be a better deal for Europeans..




7 arc sec P2P is the PE is the publish number. Most AP900/1200's are well below 5 arc sec P2P with PEC off. My AP900 is 3.62 arc sec P2P out of the box PEC off.

A Mach I would give similar results IMO..
Joe




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jmiele
Patron Saint?
*****

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: blueman]
      #4548744 - 04/27/11 11:07 PM

I was talking about the AP900. I should have been more clear... Joe

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blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: jmiele]
      #4548866 - 04/28/11 12:48 AM

Hi Joe, sorry, I misunderstood. Indeed the AP900 would be 7" or less PE.
Blueman
Quote:

I was talking about the AP900. I should have been more clear... Joe




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orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: blueman]
      #4548885 - 04/28/11 01:07 AM

So... why are we discussing this mount again?

The answer is.. an AP900 costs over 7000 Euro over there, if I'm not mistaken..


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LarsZ
sage


Reged: 01/12/08

Loc: Sweden
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: orlyandico]
      #4548962 - 04/28/11 02:59 AM

An AP900 costs 8750$. Those things are heavy, so assume 450$ for shipping just to get a figure.
Where I live in Europe, VAT is 25% and customs for telescope equipment is 4.2%.
9200 x 1.292 = 11886$ or almost 8000 Euros for the AP900. And that is without counterweight and mounting plate I believe?

To make another comparison, the CGEPro costs about 10000$ here.

It is difficult to get a mount with high photographic capacity in Europe at a decent price, but hopefully there will be more competition and lower prices in that market as astrophotography seems to increase in popularity.

Lars


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Benach
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/24/08

Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: LarsZ]
      #4549003 - 04/28/11 05:22 AM

In EU countries ut is with current exchange rates roughly $1.10=EUR1.- (despite the real exchange rates) but exceptions in the negative way are common.

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Kaizu
sage


Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: Finland
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: Benach]
      #4549516 - 04/28/11 11:59 AM

I see HoOLN1 as a poor competitor to G11. The prise is higher as well as the load capacity. Accuracy is worse. Maybe the explanation is in the small diameters of the worm gears.
The construction does not seem so much sturdier that could be expected by the difference in load capacities.

It was nice to hear a word of an experienced user instead of an advertisement.

Kaizu


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: Kaizu]
      #4551214 - 04/29/11 09:12 AM

We need to slap tarriffs that big on incoming goods. That'd pay the entire US national debt in 5 years.

Seriously, you need to get your arms around periodic error if you want to know what you are paying for. The bulk of mid-range mounts are in the +/-5 to +/-10, or 10 to 20 arc seconds peak to peak range. Losmandy G11s are in the 10 arc second peak to peak error range. The much cheaper Celestron CGEM is in the 20 arc second peak to peak range. So, a 14" drive really isn't special. And at the price of this new mount, it's actually a bit embarrassing.

-Rich


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orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: Starhawk]
      #4551338 - 04/29/11 10:30 AM

a 25% tariff would drive the price of a CGEM up to $2k. Are you willing to pay that price?

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: orlyandico]
      #4553188 - 04/30/11 10:18 AM

Either that or get a Losmandy. It would put them on a more similar footing.

-Rich


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Jeroen
member


Reged: 08/20/06

Loc: Belgium
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: LarsZ]
      #4553614 - 04/30/11 02:43 PM

Quote:

An AP900 costs 8750$. Those things are heavy, so assume 450$ for shipping just to get a figure.
Where I live in Europe, VAT is 25% and customs for telescope equipment is 4.2%.
9200 x 1.292 = 11886$ or almost 8000 Euros for the AP900. And that is without counterweight and mounting plate I believe?

To make another comparison, the CGEPro costs about 10000$ here.

It is difficult to get a mount with high photographic capacity in Europe at a decent price, but hopefully there will be more competition and lower prices in that market as astrophotography seems to increase in popularity.

Lars




FWIW, there is at least one mount (European origin) which is affordable, namely the G42 Obs+ mount with a capacity of 40kg. PE is +/- 5 arcseconds standard, the precision version half of it (+/- 2.5 arcseconds) or even better. You get a graph of your mounts PE on paper. Its price/performance is unbeatable. For more information http://www.astronomy.hu/ENG/G42_eng.html.
And no, I am not a representative of this company, just an ordinary user of a precision G42 Observatory+ mount.

Kind Regards,

Jeroen


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LarsZ
sage


Reged: 01/12/08

Loc: Sweden
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: Jeroen]
      #4554598 - 05/01/11 06:34 AM

Yes, I googled it and the G42 has some good recommendations. With Pulsar controller and counterweight it lands a little above 6000 Euro. Do you have one yourself Jeroen?

I just read that Gemini is also introducing a new mount, the G53 with encoders on both axis and some kind of friction wheel instead of worm wheel. According to the advertisment the PE is about 10" in 40 minutes. No price yet though.

And there is also the Fornax 51 mount with a PE about 14", but they claim about 1" after PEC. Not sure about the capacity though, but I saw a picture of it with a 300 mm Newton in the saddle.

And an excuse to the OP for hijacking the thread

/Lars

Edited by LarsZ (05/01/11 06:36 AM)


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Tapio
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/24/06

Loc: Tampere, Finland
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: LarsZ]
      #4554608 - 05/01/11 06:47 AM

Gemini making mounts ?
Thought they making just the electronics.
Any info on this G53 ?
And strange to advertise PE in XX minutes.


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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: LarsZ]
      #4554724 - 05/01/11 09:07 AM

Quote:

Yes, I googled it and the G42 has some good recommendations. With Pulsar controller and counterweight it lands a little above 6000 Euro. Do you have one yourself Jeroen?

I just read that Gemini is also introducing a new mount, the G53 with encoders on both axis and some kind of friction wheel instead of worm wheel. According to the advertisment the PE is about 10" in 40 minutes. No price yet though.

And there is also the Fornax 51 mount with a PE about 14", but they claim about 1" after PEC. Not sure about the capacity though, but I saw a picture of it with a 300 mm Newton in the saddle.

And an excuse to the OP for hijacking the thread

/Lars




The Pulsar software and its usability are definitely things that you'd want to research before you commit to anything..,

Of the three people that I know that bought G41 and G42 mounts, none of them ended up keeping them.

Regards,

skybsd


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Jeroen
member


Reged: 08/20/06

Loc: Belgium
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: skybsd]
      #4554921 - 05/01/11 11:09 AM

> The Pulsar software and its usability are definitely things that you'd want to research before you commit to anything..,

skybsd, one can also buy it with the FS2 controller if one has doubts about the Pulsar controller.

Lars, yes.

Jeroen


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LarsZ
sage


Reged: 01/12/08

Loc: Sweden
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: Tapio]
      #4555150 - 05/01/11 01:22 PM

Tapio, there is some information in German in this link:
http://www.teleskop-austria.at/prod.php?tid=13&lng=de#goto-g53f-ge

The 40 minutes mentioned is the period for a full turn of the friction wheel. The PE of 10" is without PEC or feedback from the encoders. With feedback from controllers, they state a PE of about 1" or less.

As far as I can see, the text doesn't mention any weight capacity, but since it replaces the G42, I guess one can assume they have similar capacity.

Skybsd, not that I am in the market for this mount (at least for the time being) but out of curiosity, what are the drawbacks of the Pulsar controller?

/Lars


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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: LarsZ]
      #4555426 - 05/01/11 04:24 PM

Quote:

Skybsd, not that I am in the market for this mount (at least for the time being) but out of curiosity, what are the drawbacks of the Pulsar controller?




From what I recall, the common theme from each of the three fmr G41|42 owners expressed disappointment that the software was not stable and was often inconsistent in operation..,

In the end, I think they each underestimated the baggage that came with a new system that was (at the time) under pretty frequent changes and updates.,

Regards,

skybsd


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Bill Dean
member


Reged: 09/05/05

Loc: Encinitas, CA
Re: New mount from Germany new [Re: Tapio]
      #4555861 - 05/01/11 08:35 PM

Hi Tapio,

A completely different company, Gemini Telescope Design, makes the G41/42 mounts. Thanks for the information on the G53F. I'm very excited to learn more.

I have two older G-41s that have literally been around the world several times over the last 7 or so years. One was severely damaged returning from China a few years ago and is waiting for me to install a new shaft coupler while the other is set up in the back yard. They've served very well indeed. I've yet to see better tracking from any "conventional" mount to date.

Clear skies,
Bill

Quote:

Gemini making mounts ?
Thought they making just the electronics.
Any info on this G53 ?
And strange to advertise PE in XX minutes.




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