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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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PhilCo126
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium
Which mount for large refractor ?
      #4574616 - 05/11/11 05:03 AM

We're trying to find out which mount to use to hold a 20 kilograms refractor for a small observatory ( outreach observational use, occasional astro-photography )... without getting under-mounted
Losmandy G-11 can hold 35 kg
CGE-Pro can hold 45 kg


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gillmj24
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #4574743 - 05/11/11 07:44 AM

A large refractor needs substantially more mount than the equivalent weight (or even a heavier) short tube SCT.

I've seen a C14 on a G 11 but I wouldnt put a 50 pound "large" (meaning long) refractor on one.


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Eddgie
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #4574868 - 05/11/11 09:20 AM

Losmandy Titan or something similar at the LEAST.

Not even sure the Titan will hold a 20 KG refractor still even though it is rated at 50KG load.

Some depends on the length of the refractor you are mounting.

If it is much more than a couple of meters long, you will most likely need a steel pier.

Titan would likely be your best bet though if you are cost concious.


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alpal
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #4574878 - 05/11/11 09:26 AM

What is the focal length of this refractor
& the diameter of the objective?


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
*****

Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #4574881 - 05/11/11 09:27 AM

Quote:

Losmandy Titan or something similar at the LEAST.

Not even sure the Titan will hold a 20 KG refractor still even though it is rated at 50KG load.

Some depends on the length of the refractor you are mounting.

If it is much more than a couple of meters long, you will most likely need a steel pier.

Titan would likely be your best bet though if you are cost concious.




I don't know...a Tak TOA150 is around 40-45lbs and I wouldn't hesitate to put it on my MI250.

David


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #4574979 - 05/11/11 10:22 AM

Quote:

We're trying to find out which mount to use to hold a 20 kilograms refractor for a small observatory ( outreach observational use, occasional astro-photography )... without getting under-mounted
Losmandy G-11 can hold 35 kg
CGE-Pro can hold 45 kg




AP900 on a steel or concrete pier.


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Eddgie
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #4575046 - 05/11/11 11:03 AM

Oh, I think the MI-250 would be a nice choice, but it is no longer made, and the cheapest MI mount available today is over $12000.

These mounts to me also kind of fall into the "Custom" mount catagory because often they are built to order.

The Titan is half the price and is generally available.

And for someone in Europe that will have to pay import duties on top of the purchase price, I think that the MI mount can be a pricy issue.

But the OP really didn't give any details other than weight, and no information on budget or anything.

So the only thing we can do is make unqualified noise. We really don't know what his requirements and budget are.


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PhilCo126
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #4575419 - 05/11/11 02:11 PM

sorry, for those who didn't follow the refractor topic, it's about this large achromatic refractor:
Fraunhofer achromatic 203 mm / 1800 = f/8.8 (20 kilogram)

http://www.apm-telescopes.de/pro_info.php?id=47666&bildid=1651


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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #4575502 - 05/11/11 02:54 PM

Quote:

sorry, for those who didn't follow the refractor topic, it's about this large achromatic refractor:
Fraunhofer achromatic 203 mm / 1800 = f/8.8 (20 kilogram)

http://www.apm-telescopes.de/pro_info.php?id=47666&bildid=1651




What is your budget?

Regards,

skybsd


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #4575612 - 05/11/11 03:56 PM

Quote:

sorry, for those who didn't follow the refractor topic, it's about this large achromatic refractor:
Fraunhofer achromatic 203 mm / 1800 = f/8.8 (20 kilogram)

http://www.apm-telescopes.de/pro_info.php?id=47666&bildid=1651




1.8 metre?!? AP1200 or Paramount.


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gillmj24
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #4575675 - 05/11/11 04:32 PM

"PS I forgot to say I don't want to spend more than $750 on the mount"

I love it when they say that


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alpal
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: gillmj24]
      #4575960 - 05/11/11 07:12 PM

Quote:

"PS I forgot to say I don't want to spend more than $750 on the mount"

I love it when they say that




Where did Phil say that?
$750 ?????


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Eddgie
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #4576072 - 05/11/11 08:09 PM

Well, some of the pictues in the links you sent show them on a CGE.

If it were on a sturdy pier, maybe a CGE or G11 head would work.

Being in a dome would mean that you don't have as much issue with wind.


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wz2
Most Boring Astronomer...


Reged: 07/30/10

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #4576180 - 05/11/11 09:16 PM

AP-3600

"I say we nuke the entire site from orbit - it's the only way to be sure"

Chris


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alpal
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: wz2]
      #4576281 - 05/11/11 10:02 PM

Quote:

AP-3600

"I say we nuke the entire site from orbit - it's the only way to be sure"

Chris




Yes the AP 3600 would definetly work but
at $26,000 it might be above their budget.

see my thread:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4567958/page/1/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1


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gillmj24
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: alpal]
      #4576309 - 05/11/11 10:13 PM

Phil didn't say that but there's often threads about I want to do this that and everything else and not pay more than ____

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alpal
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: gillmj24]
      #4576455 - 05/11/11 11:34 PM

Quote:

Phil didn't say that but there's often threads about I want to do this that and everything else and not pay more than ____




I spoke to a well known astronomer here in Melbourne
who claims he once made his own mount (30 years ago)
with a washing machine motor to drive it.
He actually got it to track for 5 minute frames
using drift alignment & no guiding.
It cost him almost nothing as he had a machine shop
to build it in.


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AntarcticDave
sage


Reged: 02/03/09

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: alpal]
      #4577343 - 05/12/11 12:58 PM

If you don't need a GOTO mount you might consider an Optic-Craft mount - something like a model 5 would most likely suffice.
http://www.opticcraft.com/telescopemounts.html


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PhilCo126
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: AntarcticDave]
      #4581473 - 05/14/11 02:00 PM

Budget would be about US $ 7500.00

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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #4581514 - 05/14/11 02:29 PM

Hello,
Good to hear from you again..,

Quote:

Budget would be about US $ 7500.00




At your required payload, usage and FL (not to mention that you're in the EU), let's be honest here.., that's tight.

As far as brand new is concerned the only option open to you at this time, is the Gemini G42 . On the bright side, this is the same mount pictured with your OTA at APM .

Used.., well, at present there are a few options - at a glance: -

Very Best Option
Next Best Option
In Europe
MI-250
Losmandy GM-150

Hope that helps..,

Regards,

skybsd


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PhilCo126
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: skybsd]
      #4583108 - 05/15/11 12:04 PM

We'll probably go for a brand new CGE Pro ...

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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #4583133 - 05/15/11 12:20 PM

Quote:

We'll probably go for a brand new CGE Pro ...




Best wishes - do let us know how you get on, okay?

Regards,

skybsd


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frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: alpal]
      #4586961 - 05/17/11 02:28 PM

Quote:

I spoke to a well known astronomer here in Melbourne
who claims he once made his own mount (30 years ago)
with a washing machine motor to drive it.
He actually got it to track for 5 minute frames
using drift alignment & no guiding



Grandpa said, "Sonny, when I was your age I walked 10 miles through the snow to school."


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gdd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/23/05

Loc: N Seattle suburb, WA
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #4587741 - 05/17/11 10:04 PM

Quote:

Grandpa said, "Sonny, when I was your age I walked 10 miles through the snow to school."




"And that was uphill both ways!"

Gale


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PhilCo126
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: gdd]
      #4588628 - 05/18/11 12:42 PM

Only a few years after production, some "horror" stories crept up about the mechanical & electrical problems of the CGE Pro... I guess as with all mounts, there're might be some produced on a Monday and others on a Friday

Currently we're considering a Losmandy solution...


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neotesla
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 11/18/10

Loc: Canada
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #4589739 - 05/18/11 11:13 PM

This mount was recently pointed out to me, not sure how good it is but for what I was looking at it seemed to good to be true. Claims 100lb. instrument capacity. Anyone have comments about this one?

http://www.tech2000astronomy.com/nightfire/powertower/

Is this good enough to do some light AP as well?


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jmiele
Patron Saint?
*****

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: neotesla]
      #4589793 - 05/19/11 12:02 AM

I don't see how that skinny CW shaft is going to support enough weight for a 100 lbs payload. The whole thing looks a bit frightening to me.

Joe


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Midnight Dan
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Hilton, NY, Yellow Zone (Bortl...
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: neotesla]
      #4590067 - 05/19/11 07:20 AM

Quote:

This mount was recently pointed out to me, not sure how good it is but for what I was looking at it seemed to good to be true. Claims 100lb. instrument capacity. Anyone have comments about this one?

http://www.tech2000astronomy.com/nightfire/powertower/

Is this good enough to do some light AP as well?




From the way it looks, and the way its advertised, I'd stay away from that one! Read further into the details below and you'll see its really only a 60 lb load - they're counting the counterweights in that 100 lbs. And to be honest, I'm not convinced its anywhere near a 60 lb capacity.

Just my 2 cents.

-Dan


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JimP
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/22/03

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: skybsd]
      #4590272 - 05/19/11 10:14 AM

My 8" F/9 TMB is mounted on an AP 1200 GOTO. I highly recommend it!

JimP


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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
*****

Reged: 09/11/06

Loc: Bolton, MA
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: neotesla]
      #4590355 - 05/19/11 10:59 AM

Quote:

This mount was recently pointed out to me, not sure how good it is but for what I was looking at it seemed to good to be true. Claims 100lb. instrument capacity. Anyone have comments about this one?

http://www.tech2000astronomy.com/nightfire/powertower/

Is this good enough to do some light AP as well?




given it only has a 20mm diameter counterweight shaft, its gonna flex with anything more that about a 25 pound load, IMHO


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Bruce FitzGerald
sage


Reged: 09/17/10

Loc: Arizona
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #4590500 - 05/19/11 12:13 PM

The Losmandy Titan and CGE Pro are in the same weight class so it's fair to compare them. The Titan is about 20% more but and this is a really big 'but' their reputation for accuracy and reliability is impeccable where Celestron's is not. I use a CGE Pro for my C-14 and, with all of the stuff I have on the mount it's carrying about 80 Lbs. After a careful three star alignment, the mount is capable of keeping a guide star within the FOV of the guide chip on my SBIG camera with the tracking turned off for 20 minutes or so. With the camera guiding the mount I have taken as many as 30 5 minute subframes without finding difficulties registering them.

With that said, however, I am VERY uncomfortable recommending that anyone purchase this mount over the Losmandy as Celestron's customer service is non-existent and the quality of their products of late has become very spotty. If I were going to spend $5-6 thousand on a mount again it would not be a CGE Pro.


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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: Bruce FitzGerald]
      #4590575 - 05/19/11 12:45 PM

Quote:

The Losmandy Titan and CGE Pro are in the same weight class so it's fair to compare them. The Titan is about 20% more but and this is a really big 'but' their reputation for accuracy and reliability is impeccable where Celestron's is not. I use a CGE Pro for my C-14 and, with all of the stuff I have on the mount it's carrying about 80 Lbs. After a careful three star alignment, the mount is capable of keeping a guide star within the FOV of the guide chip on my SBIG camera with the tracking turned off for 20 minutes or so. With the camera guiding the mount I have taken as many as 30 5 minute subframes without finding difficulties registering them.

With that said, however, I am VERY uncomfortable recommending that anyone purchase this mount over the Losmandy as Celestron's customer service is non-existent and the quality of their products of late has become very spotty. If I were going to spend $5-6 thousand on a mount again it would not be a CGE Pro.




You are aware that the OP is in Europe, yes?

What do you believe Losmandy support is like outside of CONUS?

Regards,

skybsd


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Bruce FitzGerald
sage


Reged: 09/17/10

Loc: Arizona
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: skybsd]
      #4590596 - 05/19/11 12:57 PM

Yes I knew the OP was in Europe and given the very poor customer support available from celestron I would not recommend their product for someone who can drive there.

I am not familiar with Losmandy dealers outside the US. But I have used a Losmandy mount on my C8 since 1993 with no problems and no complaints. Their mounts are like jewelry, well made and well finished.

The difficulty with any mount made in America is the manufacturers are small companies. Even Meade and Celestron, which dominate our domestic market, are too small to maintain repair facilities anywhere but at their main facilities.

For that reason alone I would buy the most reliable mout I can find. I also believe you could do much worse than a Losmandy for that price but no better until you get into an Astrophysics mount.


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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: Bruce FitzGerald]
      #4590624 - 05/19/11 01:10 PM

Hello,

Quote:

Yes I knew the OP was in Europe and given the very poor customer support available from celestron I would not recommend their product for someone who can drive there.

I am not familiar with Losmandy dealers outside the US. But I have used a Losmandy mount on my C8 since 1993 with no problems and no complaints. Their mounts are like jewelry, well made and well finished.

The difficulty with any mount made in America is the manufacturers are small companies. Even Meade and Celestron, which dominate our domestic market, are too small to maintain repair facilities anywhere but at their main facilities.

For that reason alone I would buy the most reliable mout I can find. I also believe you could do much worse than a Losmandy for that price but no better until you get into an Astrophysics mount.




At the prices of a Titan in Europe, together with non-existent support.., believe me, there are other options.

Regards,

skybsd


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Bruce FitzGerald
sage


Reged: 09/17/10

Loc: Arizona
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: skybsd]
      #4590741 - 05/19/11 02:01 PM

Good point. I would not pay 9000 Eur for that mount. Ordered From Oceanside it sells for about the same as the CGE Pro or 5995 US (4200 Eur).

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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: Bruce FitzGerald]
      #4590881 - 05/19/11 03:32 PM

Hello Bruce,

Quote:

Good point. I would not pay 9000 Eur for that mount. Ordered From Oceanside it sells for about the same as the CGE Pro or 5995 US (4200 Eur).




Now you know why to many of us, shipping in an AP is actually well worth the effort and investment

Regards,

skybsd


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Kelly Taylor
super member


Reged: 03/24/06

Loc: Groves Texas
Re: Which mount for large refractor ? new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #4593000 - 05/20/11 04:23 PM

You can get GOTO as an option on Mounts from Optic-Craft.
All you have to do is ask.


Kelly Taylor


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