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Peter in Reno
Post Laureate

Reged: 07/15/08

Loc: Reno, NV

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: Alph]
#5192418 - 04/26/12 08:03 PM

Alph,

I am curious. Do you currently own or ever own an Astro-Physics mount?

Peter

Post Extras:

Logan Tudor
member

Reged: 12/28/11

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: Alph]
#5192453 - 04/26/12 08:28 PM

Ralph, sorry, but that is rubbish. So what you are saying is that the early black EQ6 mounts (with black goop / grease) were a better buy than the current white (white grease, lower PE) models? That year's of lessons and thousands of mounts later - things get worse!

Buying an AP900 is buying a perfected mount, taken as far as it can go, and with every reasonable manufacturing update applied. I am considering a 900 for these reasons...

Post Extras:

wz2
Most Boring Astronomer...

Reged: 07/30/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: Alph]
#5192477 - 04/26/12 08:45 PM

So the 1600 will be maybe $16-17k with encoders and 220 lb capacity? PME is, what, 150 lb capacity and no encoders for $15k.

What next? An AP "1100" mount with 100 lb capacity and encoders for maybe $10,500? Probably not possible but that would be suh-weettt.

Chris

Post Extras:

Starhawk
Post Laureate

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: wz2]
#5192765 - 04/27/12 01:02 AM

That really is a good deal for such a capable mount. Alas, I don't have the observatory and a budget for it.

I'll just have to make due and struggle on with my Mach 1 GTO.

-Rich

Post Extras:

Tom and Beth
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Tucson, AZ

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: saadabbasi]
#5192773 - 04/27/12 01:14 AM

Quote:

11K is MUCH lower than I anticipated for the AP1600. This is making me reconsider regarding AP900.

I wonder if we'll be able to upgrade to the absolute encoders later on.

Marj mentioned the absolute encoders can be retrofitted by the end user at any time (AP UG forum). No need to send the mount back.

Post Extras:

Tom and Beth
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Tucson, AZ

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: Alph]
#5192778 - 04/27/12 01:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This is making me reconsider regarding AP900.

I would not touch the AP900 with 10' pole. Buying a product at the end of its life cycle is never good idea.

I dunno. I have an AP1200DA that was made in the 90s. I expect that my unborn Grandson will be using it if he ever enters the Hobby.

Post Extras:

Starhawk
Post Laureate

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: Tom and Beth]
#5193042 - 04/27/12 08:55 AM

Damn straight!

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

This is making me reconsider regarding AP900.

I would not touch the AP900 with 10' pole. Buying a product at the end of its life cycle is never good idea.

I dunno. I have an AP1200DA that was made in the 90s. I expect that my unborn Grandson will be using it if he ever enters the Hobby.

Post Extras:

coz
super member

Reged: 08/25/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: Starhawk]
#5193430 - 04/27/12 01:30 PM

No info on the new polar scope correct?

Post Extras:

gillmj24
Post Laureate

Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: coz]
#5193548 - 04/27/12 02:50 PM

There was a picture on someone's website, who is speaking at NEIAC currently. It has a right angle viewer so you look down from above, instead of getting on the ground and trying to look up.

The polar scope will be available for 1200 900 and mach 1 mounts as well but not the older 600 or 400's. This info (and links to pictures) is on the ap yahoo groups.

Post Extras:

Peter in Reno
Post Laureate

Reged: 07/15/08

Loc: Reno, NV

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: gillmj24]
#5193664 - 04/27/12 04:09 PM

Take a look at what the new polar scope looks like inside. Can anyone figure out how it works? It does not look much different than other polar scope.

http://astropolis.pl/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=76995

Peter

Post Extras:

mewmartigan
professor emeritus

Reged: 07/02/08

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: Peter in Reno]
#5193685 - 04/27/12 04:25 PM

Maybe it will work with APCC? APCC determines location and time and gives you a pictogram telling you where to put polaris in relation to the numbers?

Post Extras:

Peter in Reno
Post Laureate

Reged: 07/15/08

Loc: Reno, NV

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: mewmartigan]
#5193706 - 04/27/12 04:39 PM

Hi Marcus,

Good thinking about APCC.

Or you could use something like this:

http://myastroimages.com/Polar_FinderScope_by_Jason_Dale/

It's free. APCC is probably more accurate but by how much?

I still don't understand why the new polar scope is "more accurate" than typical polar scope as claimed by A-P. What's so special about it? I look forward to A-P document about the new polar scope.

Peter

EDIT: I can now see that if another program like APCC or planetarium software tells you exactly where Polaris is currently at, then it's much eaiser to accurately place Polaris in new A-P polar scope. Kudos to A-P.

Edited by Peter in Reno (04/27/12 06:47 PM)

Post Extras:

Marke
member

Reged: 11/28/09

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: Peter in Reno]
#5194564 - 04/28/12 09:18 AM

And if like the other half of the world in the southern hemisphere how does it work with no Polaris ?

Post Extras:

psu_13
sage

Reged: 05/30/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: Marke]
#5194794 - 04/28/12 12:02 PM

That reticle is similar in spirit to the one in the Takahashi mounts. There you can use another program to tell you where to put Polaris and then you just stick it there.

Post Extras:

korborh
professor emeritus

Reged: 01/29/11

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: Alph]
#5195094 - 04/28/12 02:49 PM

What I don't like about the new 1600 design is that it seems AP made little effort to make the mount light. The Paramount design uses much less mass but a broad and rigid frame to give a high load capacity. Looks like the 1600 took some aspects from Paramount (the broader forks, rotating base) but not in maximizing the capacity/wt ratio.

Post Extras:

bobhen
professor emeritus

Reged: 06/25/05

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: korborh]
#5195255 - 04/28/12 04:34 PM

Quote:

What I don't like about the new 1600 design is that it seems AP made little effort to make the mount light. The Paramount design uses much less mass but a broad and rigid frame to give a high load capacity. Looks like the 1600 took some aspects from Paramount (the broader forks, rotating base) but not in maximizing the capacity/wt ratio.

The Paramount mount weight is listed as 68 pounds with a load capacity listed as 150 pounds

The AP1600 mount weight is listed at 115 pounds but with a load capacity of 220 pounds.

So the mount weight to load capacity between the two is pretty close – especially considering AP’s conservative load ratings.

A mount that can support 220 pounds will not be a featherweight –if need be, the 1600 can be broken down into “manageable” pieces for transport. Although, I presume both of these mounts will be used more in observatories, rather than be considered field mounts.

Bob

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jmiele
Patron Saint?

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: korborh]
#5195317 - 04/28/12 05:22 PM

I'd like to know the weight of the 1600 vs carry capacity. Bisque has done a great job of creating an environment with low weight and high carry cap.

Additionally, I think when comparing the Paramounts and AP, you need to consider that Bisque has decades of software to hardware marriage under their belts as well. Many of us have been able to push the envelop due to the strength of that (software/hardware) relationship. While APCC shows promise, make no mistake, it took over a decade for Bisque to perfect The Sky. For those needing this level of performance, just some new AP hardware is NOT enough, IMO. And before anyone says or asks, "will Bisque support the 1600" IMO, I would think so, however using a Paramount and The SkyX Pro delivers more than just Bisque software and others hardware.

Just my 2 cents, and BTW, Alph - I've missed you

Joe

Post Extras:

wz2
Most Boring Astronomer...

Reged: 07/30/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: jmiele]
#5195350 - 04/28/12 05:46 PM

Quote:

I'd like to know the weight of the 1600 vs carry capacity. Bisque has done a great job of creating an environment with low weight and high carry cap.
Joe

Capacity/weight:

ME 2.20
1600 1.91

Chris

Post Extras:

blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: jmiele]
#5195433 - 04/28/12 07:14 PM

Hmm, I use The Sky and CCDAP5 to do all control of my AP-900 mount and camera session, works great. The Ver2 AP driver is also great, but APCC is just about to be released according to Ray and that should also be great.
The one thing that AP has that SB does not, is stand alone Go-To for visual work in the field, which is nice.
Blueman

Quote:

I'd like to know the weight of the 1600 vs carry capacity. Bisque has done a great job of creating an environment with low weight and high carry cap.

Additionally, I think when comparing the Paramounts and AP, you need to consider that Bisque has decades of software to hardware marriage under their belts as well. Many of us have been able to push the envelop due to the strength of that (software/hardware) relationship. While APCC shows promise, make no mistake, it took over a decade for Bisque to perfect The Sky. For those needing this level of performance, just some new AP hardware is NOT enough, IMO. And before anyone says or asks, "will Bisque support the 1600" IMO, I would think so, however using a Paramount and The SkyX Pro delivers more than just Bisque software and others hardware.

Just my 2 cents, and BTW, Alph - I've missed you

Joe

Post Extras:

Starhawk
Post Laureate

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new

[Re: blueman]
#5195451 - 04/28/12 07:28 PM

I spent some time with the AP1600 today. Wow is it cool:

-Goes straight on any AP1200 pier. NO mods required.

-Tracks 6hrs past meridian.

-A software variant exists for alt-az operation, mounting arms are made to accept either 0-78 degrees or 90 (alt-az) operation.

-one or both axes can have encoders. Encoder price isn't known, yet. Encoders can be retrofitted. Mount without encoders is $10,900. Encoder price will be known in next couple weeks (in negotiation with supplier).

-Motors are common with AP3600.

-polar scope specifically designed for this mount. Versions for other AP mounts will be coming.

All in all, it's a lot of mount for the money.

-Rich

Edited by Starhawk (04/28/12 07:31 PM)

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