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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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t.r.
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO!
      #5181856 - 04/20/12 02:26 PM

Well, if you waited for a new AP 1200 its too late. They are discontinued, but a new 1600GTO with zero-error encoders is replacing it. Called the "Sweet 16" it will debute at NEAF and the imaging conference. Announced on ap-ug with pics and specs.

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coz
sage


Reged: 08/25/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: t.r.]
      #5181874 - 04/20/12 02:33 PM

That is awesome. Looks like it still breaks down into 2 parts 59 + 40 lbs.

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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: coz]
      #5181918 - 04/20/12 03:01 PM

It will leave a big capacity gap!

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skybsd
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Reged: 02/01/08

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: t.r.]
      #5181951 - 04/20/12 03:19 PM

Thanks for the heads up

That thing is FREAKIN' AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

skybsd


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Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: t.r.]
      #5181985 - 04/20/12 03:38 PM

Quote:

Well, if you waited for a new AP 1200 its too late. They are discountined, but a new 1600GTO with zero-error encoders is replacing it. Called the "Sweet 16" it will debute at NEAF and the imaging conference. Announced on ap-ug with pics and specs.



Does it come with a fork lift? A-P lost their minds. Completely out of touch with main street. A respectful business should NOT cancel/pre-empt the waiting list for the AP1200. They should have honored all pre-orders and deliver the AP1200.


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tomo
professor emeritus
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Reged: 06/14/10

Loc: Shelby Twp, Mi
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Alph]
      #5182000 - 04/20/12 03:50 PM

I agree with Alph. I hope they called all the people on the 1200 waiting list and personally informed them.

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Peter in Reno
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/15/08

Loc: Reno, NV
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: tomo]
      #5182009 - 04/20/12 03:52 PM

Through-the-mount cabling will be a very nice feature. I love it in my Mach1GTO. No more worrying about cables getting caught while not looking at the mount during slewing, tracking or autoguiding. I can go to bed while imaging and autoguiding without worrying as long as I know the scope won't hit the mount/pier/tripod.

Peter


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coz
sage


Reged: 08/25/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5182033 - 04/20/12 04:03 PM

I'm certain they would have honored pre-orders. I believe people on the waitlist and those who have put money down are two different things.

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WirelessDude
sage
*****

Reged: 01/02/08

Loc: San Tan Valley, AZ, USA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: coz]
      #5182053 - 04/20/12 04:20 PM

***SIGH!!!*** What to sell, what to sell (including my existing AP1200GTO...)

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dan_h
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/10/07

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: tomo]
      #5182068 - 04/20/12 04:35 PM

Quote:

I agree with Alph. I hope they called all the people on the 1200 waiting list and personally informed them.




According to the announcement made by Rolando on AM, all individuals on the 1200 wait list were personally informed and all have been moved to the 1600 list.

dan


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Gord
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/06/04

Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: WirelessDude]
      #5182071 - 04/20/12 04:36 PM

So, does this mean we should see some good used AP1200's on the market in the near future?

Clear skies,


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gillmj24
Post Laureate
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Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Gord]
      #5182104 - 04/20/12 05:09 PM

Yes. Price determined by what the new 1600 will cost.

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Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Gord]
      #5182107 - 04/20/12 05:10 PM

Quote:

So, does this mean we should see some good used AP1200's on the market in the near future?



Isn't good news for a prudent buyer?


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WirelessDude
sage
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Reged: 01/02/08

Loc: San Tan Valley, AZ, USA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Alph]
      #5182167 - 04/20/12 05:45 PM

So, now you think I'm prudent?

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Awesomelenny
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Reged: 05/02/04

Loc: Long: 81.42 W Lat: 41.21 N
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: WirelessDude]
      #5182214 - 04/20/12 06:32 PM

Like WOW! I just bought a beautiful used AP1200 for a beautiful price too just 2 weeks ago. THis thing handles my 16" Meade without a flinch.

This lack of enjoying a very precise instrument in the over 60 to 140 lb weight class puts a number of amateurs out of the Astro-Physics market. But then again, I am sure AP did their homework and seen that the AP900 will suffice most amateurs with 12 and 14" SCT's.

I sure am glad I was able to secure one before what I think will be an upward push in the used mount category of AP1200 mounts.


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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies
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Reged: 09/11/06

Loc: Bolton, MA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Awesomelenny]
      #5182274 - 04/20/12 07:08 PM

It's all going to boil down (surprise) to price...

I have *long* thought that the price delta between the 900 and 1200 was far too close... this does fix that...

As long as the 1600 isn't *too* expensive... it looks very, very nice...


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astrotrf
Not at all Mundane
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Reged: 09/30/07

Loc: Rodeo, NM
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Alph]
      #5182286 - 04/20/12 07:17 PM

Quote:


A-P lost their minds. Completely out of touch with main street.





Maybe so, but over here on Desert Drive, this mount has just shot to the top of the list in my long (and very frustrating) mount search. It's still a worm-and-wheel design, but the absolute encoders largely make up for that. Through-the-mount cabling meets another requirement on my shopping list, as does RS-232 operation with the intelligence built into the mount. The only thing missing to make it perfect (for me, at least) would have been adjustment to 90 degrees latitude so it could be attached to an astrographic pier in a simple way.

I'm really happy I waited. I agonized over mounts with dodgy software, mounts that required me to park a PC (and a *Windows* one at that) right next to the mount for control, mounts with obscure control systems, and mounts that precluded or severely limited through-the-mount cabling. A search that I thought would be easy in that price range turned out to be a 2-1/2 year nightmare that sounds as if it might finally be ending.

Now I just have to wait for the price announcement to see if the mount fund has enough astro-bucks or whether it needs to be augmented somewhat ...


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t.r.
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Awesomelenny]
      #5182313 - 04/20/12 07:47 PM

Quote:



But then again, I am sure AP did their homework and seen that the AP900 will suffice most amateurs with 12 and 14" SCT's.






Heck, some folks are using the Mach 1 satisfactorily for their 12 -14's!


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gillmj24
Post Laureate
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Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: t.r.]
      #5182320 - 04/20/12 07:52 PM

Maybe they'll sell their NEAF display on Sunday night since you know, they don't want to pay to ship it back.

PS no don't look at me. I think I will only be up for the day on Saturday.


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gillmj24
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Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: gillmj24]
      #5182325 - 04/20/12 07:57 PM

PS anyone want to guess at the price?

My vote is for 14000. Whatever the paramount ME costs.


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Mike Clemens
Frozen to Eyepiece
*****

Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Alaska, USA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: gillmj24]
      #5182342 - 04/20/12 08:16 PM

I think you are right.

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M44
sage
*****

Reged: 03/24/07

Loc: SoCal.
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: gillmj24]
      #5182357 - 04/20/12 08:31 PM


12,750 - Mount
3,750 - Absolute Encoder Option


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krzauber
member
*****

Reged: 12/02/11

Loc: Shoreham, NY
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: M44]
      #5182364 - 04/20/12 08:36 PM

Well if you buy it at NEAF you're gonna be charged 8.375% sales tax which is a helluva lot more than shipping from Illinois would cost ...

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coz
sage


Reged: 08/25/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: krzauber]
      #5182383 - 04/20/12 08:51 PM

The encoder upgrade on the 3600 is $6800. I know that's larger but it may be close?

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seryddwr
Innocent Bystander
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Reged: 02/19/10

Loc: La-la land.
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: coz]
      #5182396 - 04/20/12 09:00 PM

Anybody want to make a charitable donation of their 1200?

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gillmj24
Post Laureate
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Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: seryddwr]
      #5182420 - 04/20/12 09:29 PM

Having the first 1600... priceless. Plus I'd be hoping for a usual slight Sunday evening neaf discount.

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coz
sage


Reged: 08/25/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: gillmj24]
      #5182447 - 04/20/12 10:01 PM

Looks like a new polar scope coming too that is more accurate and easer to use. It will be also available for the other mounts.

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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: gillmj24]
      #5182507 - 04/20/12 10:44 PM

Well, there's still the MX at 90lbs capacity and the EM500 at 120lbs.

David


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fetoma
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/26/06

Loc: Southern New Jersey
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5182578 - 04/21/12 12:07 AM

Do you think the encoder technology mimics the ASA DDM mounts?

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WadeH237
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: fetoma]
      #5182604 - 04/21/12 12:34 AM

I have been on the 1200 list for the last 6 months. I got an email today that was virtually identical to the mail that was sent to the AP users group.

I am actually a bit bummed out by this. The AP1200 was my dream mount. Nearly all of my use is portable and the 1200 is about as big as I would ever want to haul out to dark sky sites. Yet it's capacity is enough that I'd never need to upgrade when I can get around to building an observatory. The heaviest piece of the AP1600 is 58lb, versus 50lb for the AP1200. Those 8lb make a difference hoisting the thing up onto a pier.

I'm also concerned about the price. The price difference from the 900 makes the 1200 a screaming deal. My ballpark guess would put the 1600 around 14K to 15K, which would put it on par with the Paramount NE (at least that's how I would price it.) Between the larger size and what I expect the price to be, I am afraid that I'm just out of luck. I'm going to wait for the word on pricing next week before I do anything.

There are still AP900s available right now, so I may just step down to one of them. I may also even step down to the Mach1, since it will handle any of my current scopes, except the C14. The Mach1 would be ideal for my portable usage, and I would upgrade some day when I set up an observatory.

While the AP1600 is really cool and it doesn't sway me from going with AP, I have been a bit sad for much of today because my dream mount just slipped away...


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gillmj24
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5182665 - 04/21/12 02:07 AM

Used 1200's are still a great deal. I got mine certified pre owned and there is nothing wrong with that.

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Logan Tudor
member


Reged: 12/28/11

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: gillmj24]
      #5182781 - 04/21/12 07:59 AM

Hey guys, for anyone planning to attend those conferences, would you kindly take video footage of the mount, upload to YouTube and post the link back here (for the benefit of your international astro brothers).

Cheers,

Logan.


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etsleds
sage
*****

Reged: 11/14/09

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: coz]
      #5182875 - 04/21/12 09:09 AM

New polar scope, that's what caught my eye. Do you have confirmation they will update it for other other mounts? Every time I go from my EM200 to AP900, I get more than a wee bit frustrated...

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gillmj24
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: etsleds]
      #5182880 - 04/21/12 09:16 AM

Couldynights will definitely show it on video.

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saadabbasi
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/23/09

Loc: 29N
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: etsleds]
      #5182884 - 04/21/12 09:19 AM

Quote:

New polar scope, that's what caught my eye. Do you have confirmation they will update it for other other mounts? Every time I go from my EM200 to AP900, I get more than a wee bit frustrated...




This is what I'm interested in. I'm going to get the AP900 soon and I the polar scope would really seal the deal.


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bobhen
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/25/05

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5182950 - 04/21/12 10:18 AM

Quote:


There are still AP900s available right now, so I may just step down to one of them. I may also even step down to the Mach1, since it will handle any of my current scopes, except the C14. The Mach1 would be ideal for my portable usage, and I would upgrade some day when I set up an observatory.






A Mach 1 will handle a C14 for visual a lot better than a G11 especially with a Losmandy G11 or Rob Miller tripod.

Im sure the Mach 1 and 900 mounts were cannibalizing 1200 sales.

I would actually like to see AP develop a killer 25lb imaging/35lb load capacity mount that is as portable as say a CG5 or Losmandy GM8 with all the attributes of their other mounts and with a target price of 3.5 5k. Lots of amateurs are getting older and downsizing but wanting to retain AP quality and precision. I just bet a mount in that range would be their biggest seller in the coming years.

Bob


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Richard McC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/31/04

Loc: Australia
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: etsleds]
      #5182954 - 04/21/12 10:22 AM

On the Yahoo AP group, Roland has confirmed that the new polar scope will be available for at least some but not all other AP mounts (AP600: no, Mach1GTO: yes). I don't remember other mount models being mentioned so far but I'm sure we will find out soon.

Later edit: Updated list of mounts from a later post by Marj. The new polar scope will be available for the Mach1GTO, 900, 1200 and 1600. It will not fit into the smaller opening of the 600E or 800. Not sure about the 400 at this point.

Edited by Richard McC (04/26/12 07:37 AM)


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Paul G
Post Laureate
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: bobhen]
      #5182970 - 04/21/12 10:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:


There are still AP900s available right now, so I may just step down to one of them. I may also even step down to the Mach1, since it will handle any of my current scopes, except the C14. The Mach1 would be ideal for my portable usage, and I would upgrade some day when I set up an observatory.






A Mach 1 will handle a C14 for visual a lot better than a G11 especially with a Losmandy G11 or Rob Miller tripod.

Im sure the Mach 1 and 900 mounts were cannibalizing 1200 sales.

I would actually like to see AP develop a killer 25lb imaging/35lb load capacity mount that is as portable as say a CG5 or Losmandy GM8 with all the attributes of their other mounts and with a target price of 3.5 5k. Lots of amateurs are getting older and downsizing but wanting to retain AP quality and precision. I just bet a mount in that range would be their biggest seller in the coming years.

Bob




The old AP400 GTO fit the bill perfectly.


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orlyandico
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Paul G]
      #5183074 - 04/21/12 11:30 AM

The data sheet of the 1600 states that absolute encoders are available on both axes? (to provide homing capability)?

If so then this removes the objection that the PME/PMX have limit switches and the AP's do not - an absolute encoder is even better than a limit switch.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5183123 - 04/21/12 12:04 PM

I'm wondering if this encoder option will migrate to the AP900 and Mach 1. That would appear to be the way of the future. I hope it would be a retrofit, though. Otherwise, that would really be heck on mount sales/ resales. Maybe a slightly larger mount than the AP900 could appear (AP1000?), but going any bigger than the Mach 1 is coffin corner, since that will kill mobility; the raison d'tre for the Mach 1 GTO.

So I'm hoping for the retrofit kit...

-Rich


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Logan Tudor]
      #5183124 - 04/21/12 12:05 PM

Quote:

Hey guys, for anyone planning to attend those conferences, would you kindly take video footage of the mount, upload to YouTube and post the link back here (for the benefit of your international astro brothers).

Cheers,

Logan.




Just wanted to say welcome to Cloudy Nights!

David


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gdd
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 11/23/05

Loc: N Seattle suburb, WA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: bobhen]
      #5183130 - 04/21/12 12:11 PM

Quote:

I would actually like to see AP develop a killer 25lb imaging/35lb load capacity mount that is as portable as say a CG5 or Losmandy GM8 with all the attributes of their other mounts and with a target price of 3.5 5k. Lots of amateurs are getting older and downsizing but wanting to retain AP quality and precision. I just bet a mount in that range would be their biggest seller in the coming years.




The problem is to retain the same goto and tracking precision in a smaller package requires more mechanical precision and greater cost. For example the G-11 and the GM8 are manufactured to the same level of precision, but the GM-8 can track only half as accurately because the worm wheel is half the diameter.

Gale


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bobhen
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/25/05

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Paul G]
      #5183163 - 04/21/12 12:33 PM

.




I would actually like to see AP develop a killer 25lb imaging/35lb load capacity mount that is as portable as say a CG5 or Losmandy GM8 with all the attributes of their other mounts and with a target price of 3.5 5k. Lots of amateurs are getting older and downsizing but wanting to retain AP quality and precision. I just bet a mount in that range would be their biggest seller in the coming years.

Bob




The old AP400 GTO fit the bill perfectly.





Yes - the AP400 did.

And Im a little surprised that AP has not revisited that end of the market. Of course, there could be many reasons from profit margin, to competition, to manufacturing start-up costs, etc. that, as an outsider, I/we are not privy to. But, from the bleachers, it looks like a market segment that would be worth addressing for those that want more than what a GM8 or the imports offer.

Bob


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WadeH237
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: bobhen]
      #5183189 - 04/21/12 12:51 PM

Quote:

A Mach 1 will handle a C14 for visual a lot better than a G11 especially with a Losmandy G11 or Rob Miller tripod.




I am certain that this is true. I would like to work up to imaging at 3900mm with the C14, though. I doubt that the Mach1 would do well here. By spec, the 900 will do it. But I've spoken with 900 and 1200 owners, as well as some folks at AP. All pretty much say that it's a stretch for the 900, and that the 1200 would be a better choice.

I'm currently thinking about the 900 with something like the Edge HD 11". It's very rare to get seeing that will support 3900mm, plus the quality of the Edge's field should be much better than the C14. But since I already have the C14, that's a pretty expensive option by comparison.

Long term, I was hoping to do an observatory with a 14" to 17" RC or CDK and get away from SCTs. That's definitely AP1200 (or I guess AP1600, now) territory.


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saadabbasi
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/23/09

Loc: 29N
Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5183212 - 04/21/12 01:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A Mach 1 will handle a C14 for visual a lot better than a G11 especially with a Losmandy G11 or Rob Miller tripod.




I am certain that this is true. I would like to work up to imaging at 3900mm with the C14, though. I doubt that the Mach1 would do well here. By spec, the 900 will do it. But I've spoken with 900 and 1200 owners, as well as some folks at AP. All pretty much say that it's a stretch for the 900, and that the 1200 would be a better choice.

I'm currently thinking about the 900 with something like the Edge HD 11". It's very rare to get seeing that will support 3900mm, plus the quality of the Edge's field should be much better than the C14. But since I already have the C14, that's a pretty expensive option by comparison.

Long term, I was hoping to do an observatory with a 14" to 17" RC or CDK and get away from SCTs. That's definitely AP1200 (or I guess AP1600, now) territory.




Celestron states that a C14HD's weight is about 45lbs. The AP900 can hold 70 lbs, if I recall correctly. This really shouldn't be an issue for a AP900, even with accessories. A 17" scope, of course, requires a bigger mount. Just my 2 cents - I've never really owned a mount besides G11 so I don't know what I'm talking about, but thought I'd pitch in.


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Logan Tudor
member


Reged: 12/28/11

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: saadabbasi]
      #5183622 - 04/21/12 05:39 PM

Thanks David, long time reader at this forum - but with this big news - time to check in! Can't wait for the video footage Logie.

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turtle86
Pooh-Bah Everywhere Else
*****

Reged: 10/09/06

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5185641 - 04/23/12 12:20 AM

Quote:

I'm wondering if this encoder option will migrate to the AP900 and Mach 1. That would appear to be the way of the future. I hope it would be a retrofit, though. Otherwise, that would really be heck on mount sales/ resales. Maybe a slightly larger mount than the AP900 could appear (AP1000?), but going any bigger than the Mach 1 is coffin corner, since that will kill mobility; the raison d'tre for the Mach 1 GTO.

So I'm hoping for the retrofit kit...

-Rich




My thoughts too. The absolute encoder option sounds great, but I'd also like to see in a more portable mount like the AP 900.


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orlyandico
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: turtle86]
      #5185848 - 04/23/12 05:48 AM

well if you look at the price of an AP400GTO - even used, today, its $3500.

this is an 18lb imaging capacity mount.

now before you all pillory me - the AP600 is the 25-lb capacity imaging mount (straight from Roland - the C9.25 @ 22lb is the most he'd recommend on the AP600).

is anybody going to buy an 18-lb capacity imaging mount for $3500?

thought so..

and the Mach1 weighs less than the AP600. How much does an AP400 weigh? 21 lb according to AP. The Mach1 is.. 29. And carries more than the 33 lb AP600.


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Kolenka
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5186463 - 04/23/12 01:50 PM

Quote:

well if you look at the price of an AP400GTO - even used, today, its $3500.

this is an 18lb imaging capacity mount.

now before you all pillory me - the AP600 is the 25-lb capacity imaging mount (straight from Roland - the C9.25 @ 22lb is the most he'd recommend on the AP600).

is anybody going to buy an 18-lb capacity imaging mount for $3500?

thought so..

and the Mach1 weighs less than the AP600. How much does an AP400 weigh? 21 lb according to AP. The Mach1 is.. 29. And carries more than the 33 lb AP600.




The Mach1 is actually listed as 32.1 lbs once you include the counterweight shaft. It's in the same ballpark as the AP600, so yeah, I can see the benefits of the Mach1 over the AP600.

However, 21 lbs vs 32.1 lbs is a bit more noticeable. If you are looking for something as portable as possible, there are better options than the Mach1. The AP400 was in that realm and was culled. Right now, there aren't many obviously great options for folks looking in the lightweight range for doing AP at star parties where you don't want a lot of weight in the mount itself.

That said, I can still see why the AP400 was culled. The group of folks looking for "ultra-portable" setups and willing to pay the costs for such are fairly small. Most folks will want more capacity, and shrug at 10 lbs (50% extra weight in this comparison). Also, if the AP400's PE wasn't worlds better than the more affordable mounts, then that is another ding. As a lot of folks will look at p-p numbers at time of purchase, and not the smoothness, as almost nobody reports it.

Although in the case of the AP1200, I suspect it got culled because of what the AP1600 represents: the next set of technologies. With the encoder system able to bring down the periodic error so low, I'd imagine he'd want to roll this out to the rest of the lines. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the AP900 gets replaced by a newer model with a bit more capacity and this encoder system "soon-ish".


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jrcrillyAdministrator
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Kolenka]
      #5186480 - 04/23/12 01:55 PM

Quote:

Right now, there aren't many obviously great options for folks looking in the lightweight range for doing AP at star parties where you don't want a lot of weight in the mount itself.




Yes, the 25 pound EM-11 is pretty much alone in that category.


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WadeH237
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: saadabbasi]
      #5187431 - 04/24/12 01:43 AM

Quote:

Celestron states that a C14HD's weight is about 45lbs. The AP900 can hold 70 lbs, if I recall correctly. This really shouldn't be an issue for a AP900, even with accessories. A 17" scope, of course, requires a bigger mount. Just my 2 cents - I've never really owned a mount besides G11 so I don't know what I'm talking about, but thought I'd pitch in.




I just thought that I'd post a follow-up on this.

I spoke with AP again this morning and decided on the AP900. I placed the order and it should ship this week.

-Wade


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saadabbasi
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5187496 - 04/24/12 03:37 AM

That's great Wade! Hope to order mine soon enough.

I have no doubt that the AP900 should be able to handle the C14. I recall some people even having success with a C14 on a G11 - yes, for imaging. So if G11 can handle it, with some effort, then the AP900 shouldn't even break a sweat.


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Sunspot
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: saadabbasi]
      #5187859 - 04/24/12 10:53 AM

My question is would a C14 on an AP900 mount work if I do planetary imaging at F/30 or so. Of course I'm using the C14 on a CGE-Pro right now, so that should probably answer my question...

Paul


Quote:

That's great Wade! Hope to order mine soon enough.

I have no doubt that the AP900 should be able to handle the C14. I recall some people even having success with a C14 on a G11 - yes, for imaging. So if G11 can handle it, with some effort, then the AP900 shouldn't even break a sweat.




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WadeH237
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: saadabbasi]
      #5187867 - 04/24/12 10:58 AM

The AP900 is going to be a great mount. I did order sufficient counterweights to be able to run it with the C14 set up for imaging.

I do think that we may have different ideas about what "works". I'm not looking for what can be done. My CGE is the equal of a G11, and I know several people who have successfully imaged with a C14 on one. After 9 years of using the CGE, I am not interested in pushing the envelope.

I am looking forward to taking it for granted that I don't have to consider mount behavior in my session planning and execution. I don't want to have to worry about losing data when the wind blows. I don't want to have to shift balance on a meridian flip. I don't want to spend a bunch of imaging time trying to troubleshoot why the same setup that gave me 1 arc second guiding last night, is now giving me 3 arc second oscillations.

To be honest, I've actually gotten to be pretty good at doing all these things. It's just that I've been there and done that. Now I want to be spending my dark sky nights looking at the sky while my rig quietly captures data.

The AP900 should easily fit the bill for every combination that I use most of the time. And I believe that if AP says it will work, it will also give me a good experience with the C14. The AP1200 would have removed all doubt.

Finally, I want to clarify that I'm only pointing out some of this because I was fully planning to get the 1200, and I'm offering an explanation as to why I didn't select the 900 from the start. This doesn't dampen my enthusiasm for getting my new mount next week in any way. I've been thinking about this upgrade for the last 4 years and it really hasn't settled in yet that it will be here next week. I am totally jazzed about it.


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Alph
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5187896 - 04/24/12 11:20 AM

Quote:

I spoke with AP again this morning and decided on the AP900. I placed the order and it should ship this week.



Did you ask them when they are going to discontinue the AP900. I think it is coming. They need a modern/updated mount to compete with the Paramount MX. The AP900 is just a replica of the old AP1200 design.


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DeanS
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Alph]
      #5187902 - 04/24/12 11:26 AM

Or was the 1200 a replica of the 900?

Either way I am in no rush to get rid of my mounts, however I did sign up for the 1600 just in case

I hope Roland has a price on these for this weekend at NEAF. I see the base for the 3600 as $20k so can't imagine the base for the 1600 should be more than $12-13k?? The bigger question is what will it be loaded with all the fancy encoders.

Oh, and one has to wonder how long it will be before an all new Paramount is released? I doubt it will be too long from now

Edited by DeanS (04/24/12 11:28 AM)


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saadabbasi
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5187927 - 04/24/12 11:44 AM

Quote:


I do think that we may have different ideas about what "works". I'm not looking for what can be done. My CGE is the equal of a G11, and I know several people who have successfully imaged with a C14 on one. After 9 years of using the CGE, I am not interested in pushing the envelope.




Not sure if that was for me, but yes, I agree with you. If you spend this much money, you shouldn't be thinking of pushing the envelope, or making the sure the balance is just a tiny bit off so the gears mesh right etc.

The mount should just work and should be able to handle it's rated load without any issue and I definitely think AP900 would work well for this.

And yes, after the AP1600's announcement I did begin to wonder if AP will introduce a AP900 with absolute encoders. Wish we had the answer to that because then I would definitely wait for that mount.


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RAKing
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5187965 - 04/24/12 12:03 PM

Quote:

I am looking forward to taking it for granted that I don't have to consider mount behavior in my session planning and execution. I don't want to have to worry about losing data when the wind blows. I don't want to have to shift balance on a meridian flip. I don't want to spend a bunch of imaging time trying to troubleshoot why the same setup that gave me 1 arc second guiding last night, is now giving me 3 arc second oscillations.




Welcome to the world of A-P!

I have been using my Mach 1 for over three years now and I forgot about all those hassles the day after I started using it.

The quality and reliability are what sent me to A-P in the first place and I think I am done thinking/worrying about mounts for the rest of my astro career.

Cheers,

Ron


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jrbarnett
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5187978 - 04/24/12 12:10 PM

Perhaps the A-P 900 will grow in capacity (but not mass) to become the A-P 1000 or A-P 1100, next year.



- Jim


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AFAdrenaline
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5188109 - 04/24/12 01:32 PM

Really bummed that the 1200 is done for (though hopefully in the quasi-near future I can help donate to someones purchase of the 1600... all i ask for is their 1200 haha)

In all seriousness though... the 900 was a little less than I wanted (capacity wise) and the 1200 a little more... an AP1000 or 1100 would be ideal and if it came with encoders I wouldn't have to think twice about it.


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Logan Tudor
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: AFAdrenaline]
      #5188164 - 04/24/12 02:11 PM

I had the pleasure of inspecting two brand-spankin new AP mounts tonight, the 900 and 1200, purchased recently by a guy in my home town. I'm now officially sold on AP! What a treat. The size of the 1200 really stunned me, its massive! But to get into that much mount for only 1,000 more than a 900 doesn't make sense to me. What a shame that the 1200 is gone, I put my name on the waiting list just before the news broke At 12, 13 and 14K - whatever the 1600 may be, it's really getting up there...

Edited by Logan Tudor (04/24/12 02:15 PM)


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EricCCD
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Sunspot]
      #5189385 - 04/25/12 08:26 AM

Quote:

My question is would a C14 on an AP900 mount work if I do planetary imaging at F/30 or so. Of course I'm using the C14 on a CGE-Pro right now, so that should probably answer my question...





This guy seems to be doing okay with his C14 on an AP900 with a 2.5x Barlow

Eric


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Sunspot
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: EricCCD]
      #5189540 - 04/25/12 10:21 AM

Eric,

THAT will teach me not to read...LOL! I knew Chris had the C14, but thought it was on an AP1200. That certainly answers that question in spades. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

Paul


Quote:

Quote:

My question is would a C14 on an AP900 mount work if I do planetary imaging at F/30 or so. Of course I'm using the C14 on a CGE-Pro right now, so that should probably answer my question...





This guy seems to be doing okay with his C14 on an AP900 with a 2.5x Barlow

Eric




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EricCCD
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Sunspot]
      #5189837 - 04/25/12 01:10 PM

You're welcome, Paul! Glad to help!

Eric

Quote:


THAT will teach me not to read...LOL! I knew Chris had the C14, but thought it was on an AP1200. That certainly answers that question in spades. Thanks for pointing that out to me.





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coz
sage


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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: EricCCD]
      #5191286 - 04/26/12 09:21 AM

AP1600 looks like tentative pricing is $10,900

Dont see anything yet on the Absolute encoders but it looks like there will be an option for RA or RA+DEC


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Logan Tudor
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: coz]
      #5191305 - 04/26/12 09:30 AM

Nice one Coz. What's your source? Keep the updates flowing. Cheers, Logan.

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coz
sage


Reged: 08/25/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Logan Tudor]
      #5191317 - 04/26/12 09:39 AM

some details emerging on the AP-UG group from Chris Go at the conference.

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t.r.
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: coz]
      #5191320 - 04/26/12 09:39 AM

Looks like a nice new refractor to go with the 1600GTO!!!

http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?whatsnew/whatsnew


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Starhawk
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: t.r.]
      #5191369 - 04/26/12 10:06 AM

Wow- I can't wait to see both of those. Any idea if the AP1600 will go on a pier adapter ring for a 1200? It would seem to be the thing to do, to me.

-Rich


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coz
sage


Reged: 08/25/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5191370 - 04/26/12 10:08 AM

I think the 1600 has a pier adapter built in like the M1 & 3600.

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Starhawk
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: coz]
      #5191425 - 04/26/12 10:46 AM

That would definitely work. I'll look.

-Rich


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Adam_Jesion
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5191489 - 04/26/12 11:21 AM

Hi,

Price: 10900,- base. Gorgeous polar finder. Other options (like absolute encoders) to be announced in the future. Roland told me, that is quite expensive and still negotiating with manufacturer (base price ~3K $ per unit). There you can find first pictures of AP1600. Looks and works really well.

So I speculating that will be somenthing about 5K$ add to base price for Ra/Dec upgrade.
http://astropolis.pl/topic/38268-neafneaic-najwieksze-targi-astronomiczne-live/page__view__findpost__p__454557

I will publish some better images soon. Need one hour.

sorry - text in polish. Regards from NEAIC.

Edited by Adam_Jesion (04/26/12 11:28 AM)


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gillmj24
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Adam_Jesion]
      #5191530 - 04/26/12 11:41 AM

Roland said the existing piers (AP, ATS, etc) for the 1200 would also work for the 1600

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Alph
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Adam_Jesion]
      #5191566 - 04/26/12 12:07 PM

Quote:

So I speculating that will be somenthing about 5K$ add to base price for Ra/Dec upgrade.



That would be $10,900 + 2 * $3000 + polar finder + forklift > $17,000.00
I think I'll pass and buy a new car.


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t.r.
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Alph]
      #5191622 - 04/26/12 12:41 PM

Does someone have a pic of this new polar scope? Understand RA?

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saadabbasi
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: t.r.]
      #5191675 - 04/26/12 01:11 PM

11K is MUCH lower than I anticipated for the AP1600. This is making me reconsider regarding AP900.

I wonder if we'll be able to upgrade to the absolute encoders later on.


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EricCCD
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: t.r.]
      #5191717 - 04/26/12 01:30 PM

Quote:

Does someone have a pic of this new polar scope? Understand RA?




Here


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Adam_Jesion
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: t.r.]
      #5191754 - 04/26/12 01:49 PM

Quote:

Does someone have a pic of this new polar scope? Understand RA?



http://astropolis.pl/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=76987
http://astropolis.pl/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=76985


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t.r.
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: EricCCD]
      #5191755 - 04/26/12 01:49 PM

NICE!

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Alph
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: saadabbasi]
      #5192387 - 04/26/12 07:49 PM

Quote:

This is making me reconsider regarding AP900.




I would not touch the AP900 with 10' pole. Buying a product at the end of its life cycle is never good idea.


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Peter in Reno
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Alph]
      #5192418 - 04/26/12 08:03 PM

Alph,

I am curious. Do you currently own or ever own an Astro-Physics mount?

Peter


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Logan Tudor
member


Reged: 12/28/11

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Alph]
      #5192453 - 04/26/12 08:28 PM

Ralph, sorry, but that is rubbish. So what you are saying is that the early black EQ6 mounts (with black goop / grease) were a better buy than the current white (white grease, lower PE) models? That year's of lessons and thousands of mounts later - things get worse!

Buying an AP900 is buying a perfected mount, taken as far as it can go, and with every reasonable manufacturing update applied. I am considering a 900 for these reasons...


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wz2
Most Boring Astronomer...


Reged: 07/30/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Alph]
      #5192477 - 04/26/12 08:45 PM

So the 1600 will be maybe $16-17k with encoders and 220 lb capacity? PME is, what, 150 lb capacity and no encoders for $15k.

What next? An AP "1100" mount with 100 lb capacity and encoders for maybe $10,500? Probably not possible but that would be suh-weettt.

Chris


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Starhawk
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: wz2]
      #5192765 - 04/27/12 01:02 AM

That really is a good deal for such a capable mount. Alas, I don't have the observatory and a budget for it.

I'll just have to make due and struggle on with my Mach 1 GTO.

-Rich


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Tom and Beth
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: saadabbasi]
      #5192773 - 04/27/12 01:14 AM

Quote:

11K is MUCH lower than I anticipated for the AP1600. This is making me reconsider regarding AP900.

I wonder if we'll be able to upgrade to the absolute encoders later on.




Marj mentioned the absolute encoders can be retrofitted by the end user at any time (AP UG forum). No need to send the mount back.


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Tom and Beth
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Alph]
      #5192778 - 04/27/12 01:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This is making me reconsider regarding AP900.




I would not touch the AP900 with 10' pole. Buying a product at the end of its life cycle is never good idea.




I dunno. I have an AP1200DA that was made in the 90s. I expect that my unborn Grandson will be using it if he ever enters the Hobby.


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Starhawk
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Tom and Beth]
      #5193042 - 04/27/12 08:55 AM

Damn straight!

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

This is making me reconsider regarding AP900.




I would not touch the AP900 with 10' pole. Buying a product at the end of its life cycle is never good idea.




I dunno. I have an AP1200DA that was made in the 90s. I expect that my unborn Grandson will be using it if he ever enters the Hobby.




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coz
sage


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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5193430 - 04/27/12 01:30 PM

No info on the new polar scope correct?

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gillmj24
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: coz]
      #5193548 - 04/27/12 02:50 PM

There was a picture on someone's website, who is speaking at NEIAC currently. It has a right angle viewer so you look down from above, instead of getting on the ground and trying to look up.

The polar scope will be available for 1200 900 and mach 1 mounts as well but not the older 600 or 400's. This info (and links to pictures) is on the ap yahoo groups.


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Peter in Reno
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: gillmj24]
      #5193664 - 04/27/12 04:09 PM

Take a look at what the new polar scope looks like inside. Can anyone figure out how it works? It does not look much different than other polar scope.

http://astropolis.pl/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=76995

Peter


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mewmartigan
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5193685 - 04/27/12 04:25 PM

Maybe it will work with APCC? APCC determines location and time and gives you a pictogram telling you where to put polaris in relation to the numbers?

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Peter in Reno
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: mewmartigan]
      #5193706 - 04/27/12 04:39 PM

Hi Marcus,

Good thinking about APCC.

Or you could use something like this:

http://myastroimages.com/Polar_FinderScope_by_Jason_Dale/

It's free. APCC is probably more accurate but by how much?

I still don't understand why the new polar scope is "more accurate" than typical polar scope as claimed by A-P. What's so special about it? I look forward to A-P document about the new polar scope.

Peter

EDIT: I can now see that if another program like APCC or planetarium software tells you exactly where Polaris is currently at, then it's much eaiser to accurately place Polaris in new A-P polar scope. Kudos to A-P.

Edited by Peter in Reno (04/27/12 06:47 PM)


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Marke
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Reged: 11/28/09

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5194564 - 04/28/12 09:18 AM

And if like the other half of the world in the southern hemisphere how does it work with no Polaris ?

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psu_13
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Marke]
      #5194794 - 04/28/12 12:02 PM

That reticle is similar in spirit to the one in the Takahashi mounts. There you can use another program to tell you where to put Polaris and then you just stick it there.

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korborh
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Alph]
      #5195094 - 04/28/12 02:49 PM

What I don't like about the new 1600 design is that it seems AP made little effort to make the mount light. The Paramount design uses much less mass but a broad and rigid frame to give a high load capacity. Looks like the 1600 took some aspects from Paramount (the broader forks, rotating base) but not in maximizing the capacity/wt ratio.

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bobhen
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: korborh]
      #5195255 - 04/28/12 04:34 PM

Quote:

What I don't like about the new 1600 design is that it seems AP made little effort to make the mount light. The Paramount design uses much less mass but a broad and rigid frame to give a high load capacity. Looks like the 1600 took some aspects from Paramount (the broader forks, rotating base) but not in maximizing the capacity/wt ratio.





The Paramount mount weight is listed as 68 pounds with a load capacity listed as 150 pounds

The AP1600 mount weight is listed at 115 pounds but with a load capacity of 220 pounds.

So the mount weight to load capacity between the two is pretty close especially considering APs conservative load ratings.

A mount that can support 220 pounds will not be a featherweight if need be, the 1600 can be broken down into manageable pieces for transport. Although, I presume both of these mounts will be used more in observatories, rather than be considered field mounts.

Bob


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jmiele
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: korborh]
      #5195317 - 04/28/12 05:22 PM

I'd like to know the weight of the 1600 vs carry capacity. Bisque has done a great job of creating an environment with low weight and high carry cap.

Additionally, I think when comparing the Paramounts and AP, you need to consider that Bisque has decades of software to hardware marriage under their belts as well. Many of us have been able to push the envelop due to the strength of that (software/hardware) relationship. While APCC shows promise, make no mistake, it took over a decade for Bisque to perfect The Sky. For those needing this level of performance, just some new AP hardware is NOT enough, IMO. And before anyone says or asks, "will Bisque support the 1600" IMO, I would think so, however using a Paramount and The SkyX Pro delivers more than just Bisque software and others hardware.

Just my 2 cents, and BTW, Alph - I've missed you

Joe


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wz2
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Reged: 07/30/10

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: jmiele]
      #5195350 - 04/28/12 05:46 PM

Quote:

I'd like to know the weight of the 1600 vs carry capacity. Bisque has done a great job of creating an environment with low weight and high carry cap.
Joe




Capacity/weight:

ME 2.20
1600 1.91

Chris


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blueman
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: jmiele]
      #5195433 - 04/28/12 07:14 PM

Hmm, I use The Sky and CCDAP5 to do all control of my AP-900 mount and camera session, works great. The Ver2 AP driver is also great, but APCC is just about to be released according to Ray and that should also be great.
The one thing that AP has that SB does not, is stand alone Go-To for visual work in the field, which is nice.
Blueman
Quote:

I'd like to know the weight of the 1600 vs carry capacity. Bisque has done a great job of creating an environment with low weight and high carry cap.

Additionally, I think when comparing the Paramounts and AP, you need to consider that Bisque has decades of software to hardware marriage under their belts as well. Many of us have been able to push the envelop due to the strength of that (software/hardware) relationship. While APCC shows promise, make no mistake, it took over a decade for Bisque to perfect The Sky. For those needing this level of performance, just some new AP hardware is NOT enough, IMO. And before anyone says or asks, "will Bisque support the 1600" IMO, I would think so, however using a Paramount and The SkyX Pro delivers more than just Bisque software and others hardware.

Just my 2 cents, and BTW, Alph - I've missed you

Joe




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Starhawk
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: blueman]
      #5195451 - 04/28/12 07:28 PM

I spent some time with the AP1600 today. Wow is it cool:

-Goes straight on any AP1200 pier. NO mods required.

-Tracks 6hrs past meridian.

-A software variant exists for alt-az operation, mounting arms are made to accept either 0-78 degrees or 90 (alt-az) operation.

-one or both axes can have encoders. Encoder price isn't known, yet. Encoders can be retrofitted. Mount without encoders is $10,900. Encoder price will be known in next couple weeks (in negotiation with supplier).

-Motors are common with AP3600.

-polar scope specifically designed for this mount. Versions for other AP mounts will be coming.

All in all, it's a lot of mount for the money.

-Rich

Edited by Starhawk (04/28/12 07:31 PM)


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bilgebayModerator
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5195590 - 04/28/12 09:19 PM

I completely agree with you Rich. It is my next mount purchase for sure. Only the DEC part is beefier than the 1200. So, it is equally portable. It is more portable than CGEM DX or CGE Pro with the tripod I can claim.

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WadeH237
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5195627 - 04/28/12 10:00 PM

I mentioned earlier on this thread that when I got notice that the 1200 was discontinued, I ordered the 900. I also said that I expected the AP1600 to be lots more expensive than the 1200.

Boy was I wrong. I called AP on Friday morning and they hadn't shipped my 900 yet, and said that it would be a few more days. I asked them if I could switch the 900 for my place back in the 1600 line and they said it would be no problem.

So it's going to be the 1600 for me. It's more mount than I will ever need. But the value proposition was just too much to pass up.


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krzauber
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5195671 - 04/28/12 10:24 PM

When the 900 receives the 1200>1600 improvements I will buy one ... I'm guessing it is in the works ...

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Dave MModerator
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5195740 - 04/28/12 11:12 PM

Quote:

I spent some time with the AP1600 today. Wow is it cool:

-Goes straight on any AP1200 pier. NO mods required.

-Tracks 6hrs past meridian.

-A software variant exists for alt-az operation, mounting arms are made to accept either 0-78 degrees or 90 (alt-az) operation.

-one or both axes can have encoders. Encoder price isn't known, yet. Encoders can be retrofitted. Mount without encoders is $10,900. Encoder price will be known in next couple weeks (in negotiation with supplier).

-Motors are common with AP3600.

-polar scope specifically designed for this mount. Versions for other AP mounts will be coming.

All in all, it's a lot of mount for the money.

-Rich




Glad to hear they will also offer a precision polar scope for other AP mounts, those passill-4 polar scopes are not what i would call precise.


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DeanS
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Dave M]
      #5360229 - 08/09/12 04:18 PM

Got my notification a few minutes ago for the 1600 mount. Mount price $11,700 however no price yet on the encoder options. That would be my only reason to upgrade the 1200.

Price for the RA and Dec encoder option about $7k.

Edited by DeanS (08/09/12 05:54 PM)


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Mirzam
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: DeanS]
      #5360365 - 08/09/12 05:40 PM

If you go to the AP website the encoder prices are there.

JimC


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DeanS
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Mirzam]
      #5360386 - 08/09/12 05:52 PM

Yep, I see that now. That really puts this up there, really have to think about it then as my 1200 does fine with my medium F/L scopes.

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Mirzam
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: DeanS]
      #5360446 - 08/09/12 06:23 PM

Yep.

I'm just going to get the basic mount for now. Glad they made it user upgradable though.

JimC


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jmiele
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Mirzam]
      #5360679 - 08/09/12 08:59 PM

My order is paid. I went for the whole enchilada. Almost 19K... Crazy

Joe


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jmiele
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: jmiele]
      #5360680 - 08/09/12 09:00 PM

BTW it's cheaper to have them put the encoders on than to do it yourself... Joe

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blueman
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: jmiele]
      #5360712 - 08/09/12 09:22 PM

Must be nice to be able to write that check.
Blueman
Quote:

My order is paid. I went for the whole enchilada. Almost 19K... Crazy

Joe




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DeanS
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: blueman]
      #5360721 - 08/09/12 09:27 PM

I wonder what this will do to the used AP1200 market? Will they hold their value since the new 1600 is over $1k more?

I am torn on what to do as my 1200 works very well for what I am doing now. But the encoders sound sooooo sweet

Dean


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Peter in Reno
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: jmiele]
      #5360812 - 08/09/12 10:33 PM

Quote:

My order is paid. I went for the whole enchilada. Almost 19K... Crazy

Joe




Are you trying to win this contest:

"He who dies with the most telescope toys wins."

Peter


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blueman
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: DeanS]
      #5360830 - 08/09/12 10:44 PM


Dean, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Blueman
Quote:

I wonder what this will do to the used AP1200 market? Will they hold their value since the new 1600 is over $1k more?

I am torn on what to do as my 1200 works very well for what I am doing now. But the encoders sound sooooo sweet

Dean




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Marke
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Reged: 11/28/09

Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: blueman]
      #5360917 - 08/09/12 11:59 PM

The main advantage of encoders is for remote operation , if
your not using the mount from a remote site then they are a bit overkill imho.

Mark


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Starhawk
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: blueman]
      #5360919 - 08/10/12 12:04 AM

I expect the pricing means the 1200s will hold their value just fine.

I just don't have any OTAs that size in my immediate future. Just not going to happen. I'd dearly love to have a true dark-site observatory. That would be a place for an AP1600.

-Rich


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jmiele
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: blueman]
      #5361544 - 08/10/12 11:27 AM

Everything has it's price, you don't have to listen to my wife.

Joe


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jmiele
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5361557 - 08/10/12 11:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

My order is paid. I went for the whole enchilada. Almost 19K... Crazy

Joe




Are you trying to win this contest:

"He who dies with the most telescope toys wins."

Peter




Peter,
Na, I just respect the mountings as much as the optics. Nobody thinks it crazy that some have many scopes, but find it funny to have many mounts.

Dean,
IMO the value of the 1600 is ONLY there if you either need the capacity, or are getting both axis encoders. Given that fact, I think some smart shoppers will examine their needs and pass on the 1600. They will in turn be looking for 1200's. I say, the 1200 holds it's value.....however the market will shrink a bit. So, you can get your price but may have to wait a few weeks to do so. IMO that is.. However, IF you want to sell the 1200, do it before the replacement 900 is announced. It will most likely close the capacity gap a bit and could have the ability to add-on high res before or after....

Best, Joe


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Alph
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: jmiele]
      #5361560 - 08/10/12 11:37 AM

Quote:

My order is paid. I went for the whole enchilada. Almost 19K... Crazy

Joe



That will be an expensive paperweight unless you sell your PMX. I am always looking for bargains :-) A mount should not collect dust.


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jmiele
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: Alph]
      #5361567 - 08/10/12 11:41 AM

My bother get's to "store" much of my secondary gear. He uses it and never pays me for it. I can use it remotely. He lives in the mountains. I did just sell my em-400 so you missed that one. Unless we're related, you could be in trouble.

Base on your avatar, I do have you nose.

Best, Joe


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Starhawk
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Re: AP 1200 No longer Available-1600GTO! new [Re: jmiele]
      #5361967 - 08/10/12 03:36 PM

Well, if a new AP900 replacement is in the offing, I did a little math to see what capacity might make sense given the gap between the AP900 at 70 lbs. capacity to the AP1600 at 225 lb. capacity is kind of extreme.

Relevant capacities:

Mach 1 GTO: 45 lbs.
AP900: 70 lbs.
AP1200: 140 lbs.
AP1600: 225 lbs.
AP3600: 300+lbs.

(A) Midpoint of AP900 and AP1600: This is 150 lbs capacity. While that's a nice capable amount, it is also right on top of the old AP1200's capacity. I therefore doubt this is the new capacity.

(B) Midpoint of Mach 1 GTO and AP1600: This gives a value of 135 lbs. Again, it's another alternate version of the AP1200.

(C) Uniform Load ratio. Interestingly the Mach 1 GTO carries basically anything up to a C11 without thinking about it, and can even take on some larger stuff when you creep up to max capacity. For a mobile mount, this seems just about ideal, so I would be surprised if they are going to play with this capacity. Going to 2.25X this capacity gets to right at 100 lbs. That's a large step beyond the current AP900, but would still leave a step of 2.25X to the next larger mount at the AP1600 without being a copy of something else currently in production. Given the number of telescopes the AP900 is *almost* big enough for, I would peg an AP 900 replacement at being 100 lb. capacity. There would be obvious moblity improvements over either the AP1200 or the AP1600, but it would be a major step up in carrying capacity, which would greatly improve its utility. The exact number may be 45 kg, or it might be 50 kg, which would give it a capacity of 110 lbs. Either way, this would appear to be a very practical design point for a hypothetical AP1000.

-Rich


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