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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Mike7Mak
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5830455 - 04/29/13 03:00 PM

Wow, ask and you shall receive. Thanks Ed.

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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
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Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5830458 - 04/29/13 03:01 PM

Jesper,

You should contact Luciano at Avalon directly. You can reach him here: luciano@dalsasso.it


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
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Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5830461 - 04/29/13 03:03 PM

Quote:

I'm also curious if the idler/tensioner pulleys are spring loaded or fixed (I would assume fixed or extremely heavy springs).




The tensioner is fixed.


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Jesper
member


Reged: 01/29/07

Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5830502 - 04/29/13 03:21 PM

Thanks for the e-mail adress Ed. I was e-mailing with Johannes Baader of Baader planetarium. He was then talking to Avalon. We had a thread about it on our Danish forum at the time and I asked Mr. Baader for permission to post his replies, but he wouldn't allow it. As a matter of policy they never post on internet forums.

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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
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Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5830574 - 04/29/13 03:50 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the e-mail adress Ed. I was e-mailing with Johannes Baader of Baader planetarium. He was then talking to Avalon. We had a thread about it on our Danish forum at the time and I asked Mr. Baader for permission to post his replies, but he wouldn't allow it. As a matter of policy they never post on internet forums.




I think you may find it more helpful to speak with Luciano directly. BTW, I tried to PM you but could not since your account is set to not accept PMs.

Ed.


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Jesper
member


Reged: 01/29/07

Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5830656 - 04/29/13 04:28 PM

I may do that Ed, but I'm not sure it would achieve anything when they deny the problem, and as I said I decided to keep the mount and just deal with it. Potential buyers should be aware of it though.

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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5830754 - 04/29/13 05:25 PM

Quote:

I may do that Ed, but I'm not sure it would achieve anything when they deny the problem, and as I said I decided to keep the mount and just deal with it. Potential buyers should be aware of it though.




Please contact him. You may find talking to the manufacturer directly, helpful and find that the problem is not a design issue but instead an adjustment issue or an issue with your specific mount that needs to be addressed since your experience appears to be different than others. You English appears to be very good. Luciano's is OK. If you have any communication problems let me know.


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Mike7Mak
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5830775 - 04/29/13 05:37 PM

Quote:

...when they deny the problem...



I don't see it as denial. They acknowledge the elasticity exists, but present it as a feature rather than a problem. I can certainly accept that any mount regardless of drive system, in the same weight class, is gonna be affected by the wind. Some more than others maybe, but still.

Taking Avalon's explanation at face value the elastic return after a wind buffet seems a desirable result as opposed to a jump across the backlash of a gear driven mount. A jump which takes time for the motors/guider to correct.

I'm certainly not trying to contradict a user with first hand experience or suggest he doesn't have a problem with the mount he owns. But I think I understand the design concept as described by Avalon and it sounds good to me, if it lives up to their words.


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Jesper
member


Reged: 01/29/07

Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5830857 - 04/29/13 06:19 PM

I was mostly referring to my own correspondence with them when I said they deny the problem.

The thing about the elasticity being a feature rather than a problem, well that is about as contrary to my experience as it can be. Wind is not like a tap on the OTA. Gusts of wind usually last for more than a few milliseconds, at least where I live. Even if the stars should appear round, which mine donít when thereís wind, the FWHM would be affected negatively.

Iím not saying that the mount is not capable of excellent tracking. As a matter of fact Iíve achieved better FWHM with this mount than any other Iíve used, but it requires calm weather and good seeing.

My pier admittedly is not the worldís most stable pier, so some of the vibration probably comes from it, but My old EQ6 was on the same pier with the same telescopes and it was considerably less affected by wind


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Mike7Mak
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5830890 - 04/29/13 06:38 PM

Quote:

Iím not saying that the mount is not capable of excellent tracking. As a matter of fact Iíve achieved better FWHM with this mount than any other Iíve used, but it requires calm weather and good seeing.



Understood.

If you've ever used an LX200gps fork you know wind is low on the list of things that prevent round stars. If wind was my only concern I'd be in heaven.


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Pinbout
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Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5831023 - 04/29/13 08:15 PM

The linear mount is the fat ugly sister to the skinny sexy sister m-uno...

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orlyandico
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5831038 - 04/29/13 08:25 PM

Looking at Morten's formula and the corrected belt and idler size from Avalon, I'd say the actual deflection should be < 1/2 of what Morten calculates, so maybe 1" at 5 m/s.

A 5 m/s wind is pretty strong (that's about 12 mph).

But I also do see the point from Jesper that in many places the wind is not milliseconds-long gusting but is continuous, and even say a 5 mph (very moderate) continuous wind would produce problems.

But the only solution that I know of to address wind is massive over-mounting. I'm pretty sure my Mach1 would also deflect undesirably even in a 5 mph wind (although part of that is my cheap and cheesy tripod). And as Jesper points out, in Europe a Mach1 is 2X the price of the Avalon mount..

So I guess it boils down to.. you can't win 'em all.


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
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Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5831114 - 04/29/13 09:07 PM

I received the following from Luciano (translated from the Italian):

I want to clarify that we do not intend at all to deny the fact that the mount is sensitive to the wind, but as explained, it simply behaves in a different way and in cases of moderate wind, though you may see a graph with wider swings than classic mounts with worms, the end result is generally better (this is the objective result of our tests and the direct feedback of many of our clients).

I'm so sorry that Mr. Jesper was not able to get in touch directly with me. I understand that he has to fight with the wind constantly and I do confirm my availability in order to give him all the necessary information to reduce his problem and allow a better use of the mount which, considering that it is used with a C11, certainly requires a particular attention with respect to the setting of the various guiding parameters.


I hope that it is OK to post that.


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
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Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5831120 - 04/29/13 09:09 PM

Jesper,

Please turn on the Private Messaging through CN or contact me directly.

Ed.


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Jesper
member


Reged: 01/29/07

Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5831534 - 04/30/13 03:11 AM

Ed, thanks for your help. I will PM you later today. I turned private messaging off because I didn't visit CN for a long period and came back and found some old unanswered messages.

The C11 is my heaviest scope. I normally do deep sky imaging with a much lighter APO and it is that setup that gives me the wind problems. The C11 just makes it easier to feel the elasticity directly.

5 meters per second in the wind gusts is enough to make the images useless for me. It has to be nearly calm for the mount to live up to its potential.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I was disappointed that the Avalon Linear is worse than my EQ6/Atlas when thereís any kind of wind. I was expecting it to be better. If I had known that I would have saved up for an AP.


Edited by Jesper (04/30/13 03:28 AM)


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dedo
super member


Reged: 06/04/10

Loc: Italy, Rome
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5831568 - 04/30/13 04:14 AM

For what is worth I've known Luciano and I can only confirm that he is a very helpful person to speak with.

Here you have a manufaturer which is saying you to contact him.

Do it, I'm sure he will do his best to address your problems with his product.

Clear skies
Andrea


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Peter in Reno
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/15/08

Loc: Reno, NV
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: dedo]
      #5832243 - 04/30/13 12:48 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

This is what my image of M81 looks like with wind blowing at 13MPH with 20MPH gust using C-8 EdgeHD at 2000mm focal length and A-P Mach1 GEM. That night, the wind was totally unexpected and I was hoping it was temporary but the wind progressively got worse so I quit imaging early. This is a stack of 26 x 10 minutes using SXVR-M25C OSC camera. More details are at:

M81 at 13MPH

I am not sure if Paramount or larger A-P mounts would do a better job. I wonder if Avalon M.Uno would be just as good.

Peter


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Elio_Italy
member


Reged: 03/25/10

Loc: Italy, Sabina
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5843078 - 05/06/13 08:26 AM

Hi guys
I used avalon linear in much nights, shooting with a Tec140 and never trash a sub image.
I try also @f 10 with subs about 15minutes, (as ever) guided by lacerta MGen on a 50mm finderview...

I know personally Mr Avalon (Luciano Dal Sasso) and nobody in astronomy market (and not only here) seems to be every times AVAILABLE, PREPARED, RELIABLE as him!

Here you can find some shots of mine... look the boost I obtained with linear mount: before this I used a G11 but every nights there were some problem to find guiding parameters

A day I will change my Linear mount...yes, but only with an M-Uno

A last...not compare Avalon Mount with others, they are a thing apart: if you want compare to weight, cost, semplicity of use and beauty!


Edited by Elio_Italy (05/06/13 08:43 AM)


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dedo
super member


Reged: 06/04/10

Loc: Italy, Rome
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Elio_Italy]
      #5843611 - 05/06/13 01:35 PM

Too bad I missed your TEC Elio, but mine is beautiful too hope to see you soon, this time with a 160 maybe....

ciao
Andrea Perfetti


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Elio_Italy
member


Reged: 03/25/10

Loc: Italy, Sabina
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: dedo]
      #5849870 - 05/09/13 11:47 AM


parliamo di 180, sennÚ non sogno a gratis

e bravo Andrea, complimenti

see you soon...


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