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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Pinbout
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Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF
      #5202436 - 05/02/12 06:11 PM

out of all the mounts at NEAF the Avalon M.Uno Fast Reverse looked the sexiest to me.

But being intimidated cause it's out of my price range I didn't even bother to talk to them about it.

Does anyone know about this mount, or following any chatter about it since it's been out since July 2011?


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Alph
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5202579 - 05/02/12 07:22 PM

Quote:

Does anyone know about this mount, or following any chatter about it since it's been out since July 2011?



Chief,
There is no chatter about it - basically neglected. Why to bother? You can get Mach1 for less.


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germana1
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5202587 - 05/02/12 07:25 PM

Thats the first I heard of this mount, watched the vid not to crazy about how the tube sits offset for visual in certain spots as far as eyepiece position and a long refractor might be a problem. Danny what is Your avatar Iv seen it but cant place where I saw it, nice.
Pete


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Pinbout
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: germana1]
      #5202722 - 05/02/12 08:43 PM

Quote:

what is Your avatar Iv seen it but cant place where I saw it




johnny depp as tonto


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Pinbout
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Alph]
      #5202730 - 05/02/12 08:47 PM

Quote:

Why to bother? You can get Mach1 for less




cause it seems different, and sometimes that can uncover some unique qualities.

Plus I like the mill marks under the shiney red anodize.


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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5824248 - 04/26/13 12:02 PM

Rather than start a new thread I'll bump this old one.

I also saw this mount at NEAF 2012, was impressed but not in the market at the time. Still not ready to plunk down the money but I am seriously considering it for a near future upgrade. Would really like to read some first hand impressions, but web searching has turned up almost nothing but pics and one guy who says "had one, now I don't, long story".

Surely someone must be using this mount? I understand it was at this years NEAF again. I'm kinda disappointed they don't yet have a USA dealer.


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Peter in Reno
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5824281 - 04/26/13 12:20 PM

Latest Astronomy Technology Today magazine wrote a great technical review of this mount. It turned out to be very impressive. My favorite part is no Meridian Flipping. I've always preferred fork mount over GEM. I had good experience with Celestron CPC scopes but the gears were not so good or consistent.

https://www.astronomytechnologytoday.com

You need to pay for it to subscribe but it's a great magazine. I like it better than Astronomy or Sky & Telescope magazines.

Peter


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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5824806 - 04/26/13 04:29 PM

Peter, thanks a lot for the tip. I subscribed to the 1 year online only option for 10 bucks. Was worth it just for the article on the M-Uno. I also prefer fork mounts and am determined to remain with them. This one is pretty much the only option between the LX200 and the Mathis 500.

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Peter in Reno
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5824871 - 04/26/13 04:50 PM

I read somewhere a few days in other forums that Sky & Telescope also wrote an article about this mount but I can't remember which forum and which S & T issue. It may not be as detailed as Astronomy Technology Today magazine.

You can get this mount from a very good scope dealer at:

Avalon M-Uno

Peter


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Peter in Reno
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5824902 - 04/26/13 05:02 PM

I found a M-Uno mount owner at:

http://davesastroimaging.zenfolio.com/p55643342/h55EF7348#h56090e1e

Lots of good pictures.

Peter


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Footbag
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5824919 - 04/26/13 05:13 PM

Looks like there would be serious limitations to the cameras/OTA's you could use with it. My first concern would be some sort of flex.

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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5824958 - 04/26/13 05:38 PM

Quote:

I found a M-Uno mount owner at:

http://davesastroimaging.zenfolio.com/p55643342/h55EF7348#h56090e1e

Lots of good pictures.

Peter




Yeah pretty sure he's the "had one, now I don't, long story" guy.


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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Footbag]
      #5824978 - 04/26/13 05:54 PM

Quote:

Looks like there would be serious limitations to the cameras/OTA's you could use with it. My first concern would be some sort of flex.



There are limits in both size and weight, but as far as I can tell there's adapters and counterweight options that will let you mount reasonable refractors and long image trains. The 11 Celestron is the largest recommended SCT. It's primarily designed to be a portable mount. If I could afford it I'd wish for an M-uno that would handle a 16. But that would probably be right up there with the Mathis in price, if not more.

The belt drive system has me really interested. No backlash and long slow PE well under 10 arcsec that you just autoguide out, no hours of PEC training ever. I am seriously ready for a mount that just works, even if it means never going bigger than 10 inches in aperture.


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Kunama
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5825297 - 04/26/13 08:52 PM

That is just plain beautiful, the best looking mount I can think of.

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Pinbout
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Kunama]
      #5825358 - 04/26/13 09:35 PM

Quote:

That is just plain beautiful, the best looking mount I can think of.




Yes it is....its italian.


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orlyandico
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5825477 - 04/26/13 11:11 PM

... so is the 10Micron.

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Astronewb
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5825540 - 04/27/13 12:24 AM

The M-Uno didn't do too much for me at NEAF 2013, but the Fast Reverse Linear is a dream just to hear slewing. Same Ferrari racing red alloy finish too, it just looks good. Of course, you need a Officina Stellare HiPer 130 in matching red to sit on it...so figure on spending about 15k for that combo...:)

Just for info, Ed at DeepSpaceProducts will be the North America dealer. He's putting together the info now. I contacted Avalon to ask.

Ed said it would be at least 2-3 weeks before he can offer any info on pricing, etc.

Fyi,

Paul


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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Astronewb]
      #5825559 - 04/27/13 12:49 AM

Thanks Paul, welcome news.

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Pinbout
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5825561 - 04/27/13 12:51 AM

Quote:

... so is the 10Micron.




I'll second that, and it only had one chord sticking out of it. much quieter than the AP1100, which was quiet already.

but the hand paddle is as big as some of my wife's purses. an x-large tv remote.

10 micron


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vdb
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5825620 - 04/27/13 02:23 AM

I have the Linear, great mount, guides very very smooth no backlash reacts to each guide pulse instantly ...
Fit and finish ... top ...
M. Uno., I should have bought that one, no flip is just so handy when operating mobile ...


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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5826342 - 04/27/13 01:37 PM

Quote:

I found a M-Uno mount owner at:

http://davesastroimaging.zenfolio.com/p55643342/h55EF7348#h56090e1e

Lots of good pictures.

Peter




Note that the version pictured is the European Synscan version which is being discontinued.


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orlyandico
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5826549 - 04/27/13 03:27 PM

So.. what controller will the Avalon use going forward?

I understand that initially they emulated the Synscan so that the standard Synscan controller can be used.

And the magic question.. what will pricing be like. Also for 10Micron. I assume it won't follow the EU pricing (no 19% tax) but the cost of shipping, stocking, support, etc...


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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5826641 - 04/27/13 04:16 PM

Quote:

So.. what controller will the Avalon use going forward?

I understand that initially they emulated the Synscan so that the standard Synscan controller can be used.

And the magic question.. what will pricing be like. Also for 10Micron. I assume it won't follow the EU pricing (no 19% tax) but the cost of shipping, stocking, support, etc...




The new controller is manufactured by Avalon. It currently allows for the use of any computer control program like The Sky X as well as control by Bluetooth using programs like SkySafari. Wifi may be added as well soon (or possibly in place of Bluetooth). There is also propriety software for the mount. The mount has a basic hand control that can be used for alignment and manual slewing but does not currently have any kind of readout.

You are correct about the pricing. The details are in the works. Of course to you in Singapore, you would not likely be looking at a US dealer.


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orlyandico
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5827686 - 04/28/13 02:20 AM

Hi Ed, I'm actually not in the market right now, as I have a Mach1 balcony queen.

I was asking for the benefit of others who might or would be interested. The 10Micron HPS 1000 for example looks like a good buy at near-Mach1 price (based on EU price less 19%) and with dual-axis absolute encoders. I believe it's the cheapest encoder mount you can buy anywhere.


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morten
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5828546 - 04/28/13 02:53 PM

The belt drive is in my opinion a design failure. When connected directly to the main axes, it just can't be rigid enough to handle wind properly. There is a reason for the worms in mounts like AP and Paramount.


Edited by morten (04/28/13 03:18 PM)


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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: morten]
      #5828826 - 04/28/13 05:52 PM

Quote:

The belt drive is in my opinion a design failure. When connected directly to the main axes, it just can't be rigid enough to handle wind properly. There is a reason for the worms in mounts like AP and Paramount.




I think I disagree. If the mount works as described in the literature the zero stretch, toothed belts provide a more solid, backlash free connection to the axes than the single contact point of a geared system. I believe this is precision industrial robotics applied to an astro mount.

In any case I'm sold on the concept. Gears are just so '19th century'.


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orlyandico
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5828964 - 04/28/13 07:33 PM

Yes i believe they are using an automotive timing belt.

This ain't your usual rubber belt. Car engine timing belts are under a huge amount of tension. They won't stretch.


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Tamiji Homma
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5828998 - 04/28/13 07:58 PM

Hi Ed,

I hope you can bring one of those beauties to PATS 2013.

Hmmm, I just checked PATS Facebook.
It seems that PATS 2013 has been canceled?

If true, I guess Arizona Science & Astronomy Expo in Tucson, maybe?

Tammy


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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5829307 - 04/28/13 10:56 PM

Quote:

Yes i believe they are using an automotive timing belt.

This ain't your usual rubber belt. Car engine timing belts are under a huge amount of tension. They won't stretch.




These are definitely not automobile belts.

The pulleys and belts are the same kinds used in high-precision machine tools. The pulleys are made of a polymer
resin combined with glass fiber that resists deformation from thermal expansion and contraction, and erosion of the teeth. The four belts on each axis are made from a technopolymer with reinforcements. These types of belts and pulleys are much better than those found in automobiles and are made to run with very high precision at virtually any temperature.


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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5829310 - 04/28/13 10:58 PM

Quote:

Hi Ed,

I hope you can bring one of those beauties to PATS 2013.

Hmmm, I just checked PATS Facebook.
It seems that PATS 2013 has been canceled?

If true, I guess Arizona Science & Astronomy Expo in Tucson, maybe?

Tammy




Yes, PATS has been cancelled.

We will definitely be at ASAE in Tucson with the Avalon and 10Micron mounts. The manufacturers will probably be there as well.


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wolfman_4_ever
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5829327 - 04/28/13 11:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hi Ed,

I hope you can bring one of those beauties to PATS 2013.

Hmmm, I just checked PATS Facebook.
It seems that PATS 2013 has been canceled?

If true, I guess Arizona Science & Astronomy Expo in Tucson, maybe?

Tammy




Yes, PATS has been cancelled.

We will definitely be at ASAE in Tucson with the Avalon and 10Micron mounts. The manufacturers will probably be there as well.




As Charlie Brown would say... "RATS!"

I couldn't make it last year and was hoping for this year.. oh well.. That's the way the cookie crumbles.


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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: morten]
      #5829335 - 04/28/13 11:19 PM

Quote:

The belt drive is in my opinion a design failure. When connected directly to the main axes, it just can't be rigid enough to handle wind properly. There is a reason for the worms in mounts like AP and Paramount.





Ted Sacker, the person who wrote the review for the March issue of Astronomy Technology Today reported that the mount worked fine in a breeze at the Winter Star Party. Once the wind got too strong he was not able to continue, but neither were the other mounts nearby.

Edited by EFT (04/29/13 09:37 AM)


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Jesper
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: morten]
      #5829674 - 04/29/13 08:27 AM

Quote:

The belt drive is in my opinion a design failure. When connected directly to the main axes, it just can't be rigid enough to handle wind properly. There is a reason for the worms in mounts like AP and Paramount.




Unfortunately I can confirm this. I have been using the Avalon Linear for a few months and it is very wind sensitive; Much more so than the EQ6 pro (Atlas) I was using before on the same pier. It's a serious problem if the mount is not in a dome. With My C11 and matching counterweights on the mount it's actually easy to feel the elasticity in the belt drive.


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morten
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5829964 - 04/29/13 11:30 AM

Here's the calculation. Jesper have experienced in real life that the mount is wind sensitive. I have investigated the design and found out that the inherent elasticity of belts is the culprit. Judge for yourself. But don't say you weren't warned.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27494488/avalon.pdf

Edited by morten (04/29/13 11:32 AM)


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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: morten]
      #5830204 - 04/29/13 01:22 PM

Quote:

Here's the calculation. Jesper have experienced in real life that the mount is wind sensitive. I have investigated the design and found out that the inherent elasticity of belts is the culprit. Judge for yourself. But don't say you weren't warned.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27494488/avalon.pdf



Interesting. I'd like to hear Avalon's rebuttal. I'm also curious if the idler/tensioner pulleys are spring loaded or fixed (I would assume fixed or extremely heavy springs). Also how do those figures compare with the backlash that has to exist in a gear drive system?

I won't say I wasn't warned , but wind isn't really a concern for me. It will be observatory mounted and it's rarely windy at night here.


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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5830259 - 04/29/13 01:45 PM

Just speaking for myself, even if belt elasticity is as described the other attributes of the mount outweigh any potential unstability in gusty winds. It's a fork (the main attraction for me), slow guidable PE without the need for tedious training sessions and inscrutable PEC programs, no lubrication or gear mesh concerns, and the ability to handle more than a single dedicated OTA.

From my perspective stepping up from an LX200gps fork it's a dream come true.


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Jesper
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5830279 - 04/29/13 01:56 PM

I can add that that I communicated at length with Baader Planetarium Germany, where I bought the mount, and through Baader with Avalon about my experience with the mount. I also sent them Mortens pdf file (which by the way describes perfectly what I see in the real world). Neither Baader nor Avalon would acknowledge that there is a problem. Baader is a good company though, and I believe I could have returned the mount without problems. I choose to keep it and shield it from the wind with hinged panels, because I like it in all other ways and because a Mach1GTO is about twice as expensive in Europe.

Mike, if you have an observatory to put it in and not much wind I can recommend the mount. Itís very beautiful, the fit and finish and the functionality is much better than the EQ6/Atlas, and itís stronger. If it wasnít for the belt drive I would call it a winner, but if it is to be used in any kind of wind I cannot recommend it. Even a gentle breeze can be seen in the guide graph.

Perhaps I should emphasize again that I'm talking about the Linear, not the Uno which I havent used.

Edited by Jesper (04/29/13 02:05 PM)


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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5830393 - 04/29/13 02:39 PM

Jesper, your comments are encouraging.

As I said the wind thing doesn't really concern me that much and I'm determined to stick with a fork mount. Besides the M-uno that leaves the $12k Mathis 500 which I am far less likely to ever actually buy, barring a lottery win. The Mathis would also require picking an OTA that would probably match it in price. The M-uno will work with what I already have and easily convert to something new later. I'd be a little more enthused about the M-uno if it could handle a 14" but that might push it out of my financial comfort zone anyway.

I've got time before this becomes real for me so I'm hoping to hear more first person accounts.


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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: morten]
      #5830424 - 04/29/13 02:51 PM

Quote:

Here's the calculation. Jesper have experienced in real life that the mount is wind sensitive. I have investigated the design and found out that the inherent elasticity of belts is the culprit. Judge for yourself. But don't say you weren't warned.




Considering the annual average wind speed for most places in the US is well under the 5 m/s, this does not seem like an issue even if the calculations presented are correct. In addition, the implication here seems to be that gear driven mounts do not loose subs in windy conditions when that is clearly not the case, nor does it appear to be the case for other belt-driven mounts, even some that weigh considerably more or not designed to be particularly portable in the first place. Some elasticity in the belts can actually help since the mount quickly returns to its original position after a wind gust without having to compensate for the change in position mechanically and the return to position. There have not been a lot of complaints about a wind problem for the mounts that have been sold in Europe and so far I have not be able to confirm whether Jesper ever spoke with the manufacturer about his mount specifically.

Here is the response from Avalon (with some editing for English):

We have a lot of cases of using [the mount] with a moderate wind without problem (during [the] last WSP we had a lot of wind and the M-uno performance was still good as written in [the] ATT review). We have to know that the mount works in a different way from the worm-gear based mounts. The elasticity allows a bigger movement of the star, but it come[s] back in the same pixel in a few milliseconds (due to the zero backlash) so, normally 90% of the light is on the same pixel and the final result is rounded stars.

In [a] normal worm-gear mount, after a wind shot the star moves to a distant pixel and it is the motor that moves the star back and it [can] take some seconds (depending on the backlash amount). In th[at] case the light information [is] written [on a] different pixel, so in the final picture we can have stars moved.

Another advantage [of the belt drive] is that normally the guiding star is not lost and also if you can lose a single shot you don't lose the subsequent shots (if you are taking a sequence of shots). It is important to remember that this situation is true when we have a moderate wind (in this case [it] is also better to use short telescopes), otherwise our mounts have the same problem [as] the other mounts!

Sometimes, looking to a bad autoguiding graph, some people [do] not even start to tak[e the] picture because they are thinking in the old way: bad graph = moved stars!
Just for having an idea you can see the attached [images] where Sreen1.png is a screenshot of a session with 20 min. exposure time with some wind (look at the History graph!) and M27.jpg is the final picture that still shows rounded stars. (picture taken during last starparty in France on Sept. 2012) In this case we used a M-uno with Takahashi Mewlon 10" at f12 , 3mt. of focal lenght , this telescope is longer more then a C11 and is very sensative to the wind because of the long tube.

I'm also seeing that in the Mr. Morten calculation is considering only the bad aspect of the elasticity effect and not the zero backlash effect!! .... I think that a good formula MUST have the backlash parameter in both case belt and worm gear, especially If we want to know what really happens to our star, otherwise this thinking has no sense. Other parameters in the Mr. Morten formula are not the same used in the mount. The last pulley, which is the one that absorbs the main load, is diam. 108 mm. (not 50 mm.) and the belt is 19 mm wide (not 10 mm.). So using the real parameters the final numbers may be very different.

In our Users Gallery web page there are a lot of pictures taken in different situations and we have no reports about the wind problem ... none!!

I think that all this people are not so lucky for having only no windy nights!! We are talking after hundreds of nights spent for testing and hundreds of pictures from different costumers and not behind a formula.


(I will try to post the images in a separate post since it will not let me do so in this post.


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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5830448 - 04/29/13 02:57 PM

Here are links to the images:

Screen Shot
M27


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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5830455 - 04/29/13 03:00 PM

Wow, ask and you shall receive. Thanks Ed.

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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5830458 - 04/29/13 03:01 PM

Jesper,

You should contact Luciano at Avalon directly. You can reach him here: luciano@dalsasso.it


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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5830461 - 04/29/13 03:03 PM

Quote:

I'm also curious if the idler/tensioner pulleys are spring loaded or fixed (I would assume fixed or extremely heavy springs).




The tensioner is fixed.


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Jesper
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Reged: 01/29/07

Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5830502 - 04/29/13 03:21 PM

Thanks for the e-mail adress Ed. I was e-mailing with Johannes Baader of Baader planetarium. He was then talking to Avalon. We had a thread about it on our Danish forum at the time and I asked Mr. Baader for permission to post his replies, but he wouldn't allow it. As a matter of policy they never post on internet forums.

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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5830574 - 04/29/13 03:50 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the e-mail adress Ed. I was e-mailing with Johannes Baader of Baader planetarium. He was then talking to Avalon. We had a thread about it on our Danish forum at the time and I asked Mr. Baader for permission to post his replies, but he wouldn't allow it. As a matter of policy they never post on internet forums.




I think you may find it more helpful to speak with Luciano directly. BTW, I tried to PM you but could not since your account is set to not accept PMs.

Ed.


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Jesper
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5830656 - 04/29/13 04:28 PM

I may do that Ed, but I'm not sure it would achieve anything when they deny the problem, and as I said I decided to keep the mount and just deal with it. Potential buyers should be aware of it though.

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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5830754 - 04/29/13 05:25 PM

Quote:

I may do that Ed, but I'm not sure it would achieve anything when they deny the problem, and as I said I decided to keep the mount and just deal with it. Potential buyers should be aware of it though.




Please contact him. You may find talking to the manufacturer directly, helpful and find that the problem is not a design issue but instead an adjustment issue or an issue with your specific mount that needs to be addressed since your experience appears to be different than others. You English appears to be very good. Luciano's is OK. If you have any communication problems let me know.


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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5830775 - 04/29/13 05:37 PM

Quote:

...when they deny the problem...



I don't see it as denial. They acknowledge the elasticity exists, but present it as a feature rather than a problem. I can certainly accept that any mount regardless of drive system, in the same weight class, is gonna be affected by the wind. Some more than others maybe, but still.

Taking Avalon's explanation at face value the elastic return after a wind buffet seems a desirable result as opposed to a jump across the backlash of a gear driven mount. A jump which takes time for the motors/guider to correct.

I'm certainly not trying to contradict a user with first hand experience or suggest he doesn't have a problem with the mount he owns. But I think I understand the design concept as described by Avalon and it sounds good to me, if it lives up to their words.


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Jesper
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Reged: 01/29/07

Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5830857 - 04/29/13 06:19 PM

I was mostly referring to my own correspondence with them when I said they deny the problem.

The thing about the elasticity being a feature rather than a problem, well that is about as contrary to my experience as it can be. Wind is not like a tap on the OTA. Gusts of wind usually last for more than a few milliseconds, at least where I live. Even if the stars should appear round, which mine donít when thereís wind, the FWHM would be affected negatively.

Iím not saying that the mount is not capable of excellent tracking. As a matter of fact Iíve achieved better FWHM with this mount than any other Iíve used, but it requires calm weather and good seeing.

My pier admittedly is not the worldís most stable pier, so some of the vibration probably comes from it, but My old EQ6 was on the same pier with the same telescopes and it was considerably less affected by wind


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Mike7Mak
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5830890 - 04/29/13 06:38 PM

Quote:

Iím not saying that the mount is not capable of excellent tracking. As a matter of fact Iíve achieved better FWHM with this mount than any other Iíve used, but it requires calm weather and good seeing.



Understood.

If you've ever used an LX200gps fork you know wind is low on the list of things that prevent round stars. If wind was my only concern I'd be in heaven.


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Pinbout
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5831023 - 04/29/13 08:15 PM

The linear mount is the fat ugly sister to the skinny sexy sister m-uno...

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orlyandico
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5831038 - 04/29/13 08:25 PM

Looking at Morten's formula and the corrected belt and idler size from Avalon, I'd say the actual deflection should be < 1/2 of what Morten calculates, so maybe 1" at 5 m/s.

A 5 m/s wind is pretty strong (that's about 12 mph).

But I also do see the point from Jesper that in many places the wind is not milliseconds-long gusting but is continuous, and even say a 5 mph (very moderate) continuous wind would produce problems.

But the only solution that I know of to address wind is massive over-mounting. I'm pretty sure my Mach1 would also deflect undesirably even in a 5 mph wind (although part of that is my cheap and cheesy tripod). And as Jesper points out, in Europe a Mach1 is 2X the price of the Avalon mount..

So I guess it boils down to.. you can't win 'em all.


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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5831114 - 04/29/13 09:07 PM

I received the following from Luciano (translated from the Italian):

I want to clarify that we do not intend at all to deny the fact that the mount is sensitive to the wind, but as explained, it simply behaves in a different way and in cases of moderate wind, though you may see a graph with wider swings than classic mounts with worms, the end result is generally better (this is the objective result of our tests and the direct feedback of many of our clients).

I'm so sorry that Mr. Jesper was not able to get in touch directly with me. I understand that he has to fight with the wind constantly and I do confirm my availability in order to give him all the necessary information to reduce his problem and allow a better use of the mount which, considering that it is used with a C11, certainly requires a particular attention with respect to the setting of the various guiding parameters.


I hope that it is OK to post that.


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EFT
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5831120 - 04/29/13 09:09 PM

Jesper,

Please turn on the Private Messaging through CN or contact me directly.

Ed.


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Jesper
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Reged: 01/29/07

Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: EFT]
      #5831534 - 04/30/13 03:11 AM

Ed, thanks for your help. I will PM you later today. I turned private messaging off because I didn't visit CN for a long period and came back and found some old unanswered messages.

The C11 is my heaviest scope. I normally do deep sky imaging with a much lighter APO and it is that setup that gives me the wind problems. The C11 just makes it easier to feel the elasticity directly.

5 meters per second in the wind gusts is enough to make the images useless for me. It has to be nearly calm for the mount to live up to its potential.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I was disappointed that the Avalon Linear is worse than my EQ6/Atlas when thereís any kind of wind. I was expecting it to be better. If I had known that I would have saved up for an AP.


Edited by Jesper (04/30/13 03:28 AM)


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dedo
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Reged: 06/04/10

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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Jesper]
      #5831568 - 04/30/13 04:14 AM

For what is worth I've known Luciano and I can only confirm that he is a very helpful person to speak with.

Here you have a manufaturer which is saying you to contact him.

Do it, I'm sure he will do his best to address your problems with his product.

Clear skies
Andrea


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Peter in Reno
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Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: dedo]
      #5832243 - 04/30/13 12:48 PM Attachment (10 downloads)

This is what my image of M81 looks like with wind blowing at 13MPH with 20MPH gust using C-8 EdgeHD at 2000mm focal length and A-P Mach1 GEM. That night, the wind was totally unexpected and I was hoping it was temporary but the wind progressively got worse so I quit imaging early. This is a stack of 26 x 10 minutes using SXVR-M25C OSC camera. More details are at:

M81 at 13MPH

I am not sure if Paramount or larger A-P mounts would do a better job. I wonder if Avalon M.Uno would be just as good.

Peter


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Elio_Italy
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Reged: 03/25/10

Loc: Italy, Sabina
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5843078 - 05/06/13 08:26 AM

Hi guys
I used avalon linear in much nights, shooting with a Tec140 and never trash a sub image.
I try also @f 10 with subs about 15minutes, (as ever) guided by lacerta MGen on a 50mm finderview...

I know personally Mr Avalon (Luciano Dal Sasso) and nobody in astronomy market (and not only here) seems to be every times AVAILABLE, PREPARED, RELIABLE as him!

Here you can find some shots of mine... look the boost I obtained with linear mount: before this I used a G11 but every nights there were some problem to find guiding parameters

A day I will change my Linear mount...yes, but only with an M-Uno

A last...not compare Avalon Mount with others, they are a thing apart: if you want compare to weight, cost, semplicity of use and beauty!


Edited by Elio_Italy (05/06/13 08:43 AM)


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dedo
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Reged: 06/04/10

Loc: Italy, Rome
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: Elio_Italy]
      #5843611 - 05/06/13 01:35 PM

Too bad I missed your TEC Elio, but mine is beautiful too hope to see you soon, this time with a 160 maybe....

ciao
Andrea Perfetti


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Elio_Italy
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Reged: 03/25/10

Loc: Italy, Sabina
Re: Avalon M.Uno @ NEAF new [Re: dedo]
      #5849870 - 05/09/13 11:47 AM


parliamo di 180, sennÚ non sogno a gratis

e bravo Andrea, complimenti

see you soon...


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