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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Manny Myles
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ES Twilight I alt az mount
      #5206214 - 05/04/12 07:31 PM Attachment (345 downloads)

Well I got mine today, (ordered it Wednesday early AM) and opened it up and a quick assembly and must say I'm quite pleased with it as it sits here.
The designers used a bit of grey matter on this one as most fear of this or that is not a problem for me at least.
Opening up all the boxes looking for some sort of instructions were fruitless, but it's a no brainer for all but one thing where I wish I could have at least known ahead of time like with the Voyager with the 3 screws and the strict order not to mess with.
So full speed ahead and undid 4 allen heads and what I was hoping for was what I was rewarded with.
On the az the slo mo cable is right in line with the alt slo mo cable when pointed at higher elevations.
With this mount undo the 4 screws and rotate the az head to where you want the slo mo cable to be.
The same hole pattern on the alt head is the same on the az head so no worry about finding the right place for locating the dovetail or az head.
Cloudy tonight so no checking out the stability of the tripod.
Below is a pic of the mount set up with the az slo mo like on Portamount
m2


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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5206217 - 05/04/12 07:32 PM Attachment (226 downloads)

The face plate of both alt and az heads

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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5206222 - 05/04/12 07:34 PM Attachment (203 downloads)

The clutch tension knobs are quite nice as they let you tighten them up and if they get in the way the handle slides down with a spring loaded on the shaft to keep it engaged yet able to move it out of the way.
So far I'm liking it.
m2


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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5206431 - 05/04/12 10:05 PM

Good info & nice photos.

Sounds like you won't need this but in case you are interested, here's a link to the instruction manual for the Orion VG III: http://www.telescope.com/assets/product_files/instructions/29447_04-12.pdf

I couldn't wait & ordered a Twilight I, also - mine should be arriving on Monday.


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jochsner
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Reged: 01/11/12

Loc: PA
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5206453 - 05/04/12 10:27 PM

This mount looks great!
Will it support a 8" SCT with finder and 2" ep's I'm wondering?
Are the legs rock solid? Is the height suitable for seated viewing?
THANKS-


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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5206802 - 05/05/12 07:17 AM

Thanks for the link OMIH, but it does not say what the 4 washers that come with are used for.
I have an idea but will have to wait till later today to find out.
m2


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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5207658 - 05/05/12 06:18 PM Attachment (198 downloads)

It's actually going to be clear sky tonight so I loaded up my new mount with my WO Megrez 80 and ready for darkness
A few shots of it below
m2


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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5207660 - 05/05/12 06:19 PM Attachment (168 downloads)

Another

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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5207661 - 05/05/12 06:20 PM Attachment (169 downloads)

One more.
Right now there is no backlash on either slo mo, turning it is a now instead of wait a bit for it to kick in.
With the legs collapsed all the way in the mount stays on its feet and not as backwards tippy as the Porta and Voyager when the scope is parked between it legs.
m2


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beatlejuice
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5207759 - 05/05/12 07:29 PM

Looks good Manny, I see your mod fits it ok. Did you have to make a new one for this mount? Any ideas on a lever for the tension adjustments on the voyager?

Eric


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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: beatlejuice]
      #5207800 - 05/05/12 07:58 PM

Yes it does look good Eric!.
Do my mods fit okay??? They fit like they were made for it;-)
The only thing I might change is the length of the verticle plate, making it a tad longer so the scope sits lower, but the bracket shown fits a Portamount and now the ES Twilight I.
Ideas for the tension on the Voyager??? Drawing a blank here.
Would be intersesting to see if the EST knobs would fit the Voyager but where would one get the knobs from?
These knobs thread into an empty threaded hole and must put pressure on down below.
Don't know if the Voyager's tension screws thread out allowing a new knob to fit.
But what are the chances of the ES T's knobs fit.
m2


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Locoman
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5207968 - 05/05/12 10:22 PM

I see the azimuth control can be moved so it can be out of the way of the focuser, cool! It sure looks good. Can't wait for your first light report. Nice bright moon out tonight, enjoy!

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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Locoman]
      #5208374 - 05/06/12 07:18 AM

No first light last night as the force was much too powerful.
m2


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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5208749 - 05/06/12 12:40 PM

m2,

Nice photos.

So where did you put those four washers?

And those locks for extending the tripod legs look a little more robust than the Voyager.

I noticed that the ES Shopping website now shows the ES Ti mount for $299.


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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5209241 - 05/06/12 06:41 PM

I put the washers on the coffee table.
I had to work today and no time to find the true home for them.
I suspect they go under the spreader for the tripod.
m2


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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5209821 - 05/07/12 07:11 AM

Came across another part that has no home, 3 hole spacing identicle to the 3 holes on altitude head since there are no directions in the box I'm guessing it's a spare cltuch bearing.
No way to post a photo of it since my regular computer mother board fan died Sunday night and using a backup netbook.
m2


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Jim7728
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5209929 - 05/07/12 08:57 AM

The "I" is looking good. Altitude arm looks solid enough to handle a Short tube 100mm. Let us know how well vibes are controlled at high mags.

Nice "Manny" mods!


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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5214282 - 05/09/12 06:35 PM Attachment (144 downloads)

Got my ES Twilight I assembled with my new ES 102ED APO. Unfortunately weather has been clousy the past couple of nights, so I haven't had time to test them outdoors.

Some things I noticed:
-The mount arm can only be oriented vertical or 60-degrees from vertical, and not 30-degrees from vertical as is advertised at the Orion website for the Versago III.

-My ES 102ED APO scope arrived with a broken 1/4-20 nylon thumbscrew for mounting the finder scope to the bracket on the OT. I replaced it with a temporary 1/4-20 white nylon screw.

-Mine came with 3 flat washers, two of which I mounted on the long shaft for the tripod spreader.

-There was also a retainer to keep the long shaft from falling down when you unscrew it from the mount base.

-Mine also came with the circular plate that m2 mentioned.

-I was pleasantly surprised to find the L-shape Allen wrench is held to the mount arm by several strong magnets.

-With the mount in the astronomical position (mount arm inclined at 60 degrees from vertical), tripod legs fully extended, & my 102ED APO scope oriented vertically up, the eyepiece (in the diagonal) is approximately 33" from the ground / floor.

-The Twilight I mount + tripod weighs 18 lbs according to my digital bathroom scale. My ES 102ED APO w/a 10mm eyepiece weighs 14 lbs.

-The tripod leg locks appear to be robust.

-The OT assembly appears to be pretty stable when in the vertical orientation w/ the legs fully extended.

Edited by OldManInHawaii (05/09/12 10:57 PM)


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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Jim7728]
      #5214470 - 05/09/12 08:41 PM

Thanks Jim!
m2


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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5214473 - 05/09/12 08:42 PM

Looking good there OMIH!!!
m2


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GrampaMoose
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5219995 - 05/13/12 10:27 AM

Can you remove the mount from the tripod and install it on a surveyors tripod (5/8 x 16) ???

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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: GrampaMoose]
      #5221205 - 05/14/12 12:59 AM

G Moose,

Im also interested in hearing Mannys reply to your question but in the meantime let me give you some related info about the ES TI mount.

-The mount has a female 3/8 threaded female socket which mates with the top end of the vertical shaft for the spreader plate/eyepiece holder.

-The vertical shaft for the spreader plate/eyepiece holder is O.D. and reduces to a 3/8 threaded male section at the top end which ties into the bottom underside of the mount.

-A 3/8 X shoulder bushing is placed at the change of shaft diameter to allow tightening/fastening of the mount to the tripod.

-The tripod legs are 1-1/2 O.D. chrome steel legs.

-The pair of bracket ears for each tripod leg is approximately 1-1/4 apart.

**************

Other comments:

This is my first alt-azimuth mount and I can only compare it to the dual fork equatorial mount of my 25 year old Meade 8 SCT, so the following comments should be taken with a grain of salt.

-The ES TI tripod is much shorter than my Meade scope, and finding any overhead object, e.g., Mars was inconvenient to say the least. Of course, a 90-degree RA finderscope would have helped a lot.

-With the tripod legs fully extended & viewing Saturn at 143X, the ES TI mount seems to vibrate more than my old Meade scope mount. Touching the fine focuser on my ES 102ED APO scope & touching the slow motion knobs on the mount makes the image bounce around. My Meade scope also bounces around when using its cruder slow motion controls and focusing, but the vibrations seem to dampen out quicker. I have not tried to weigh down the ES TI mount.

-I really like the slow motion controls on the ES TI mount because they are much better than that on my old Meade scope.

-I'm thinking about the possibility of mounting the ES TI mount on my Meade tripod by using steel angle at each leg bracket (crazy idea).


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munchmeister
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Reged: 04/04/12

Loc: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5224244 - 05/15/12 10:01 PM

M2 et al: Any thoughts on how this compares to the Vixen Porta II? I'm in the market for an alt az for my newly acquired Orion 120mm ST. Any recommendations?

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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: munchmeister]
      #5225159 - 05/16/12 01:32 PM

I recall reading some criticism of the Porta II's tripod being vibration prone, and that the Vixen Star Guy was an improvement. The specs of the Star Guy (operating height, load capacity, weight) seem similar to the ES I but at $100 more.

I was curious why you want an alt-az mount since your scope came w/ an Orion Astroview EQ mount.


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desertlens
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5225329 - 05/16/12 03:14 PM

I can confirm that the Porta II with the original legs is vibration prone. The StarGuy version has legs of a stiffer box-form like the AT Voyager (much better). Anti-vibration pads make a huge difference in both cases. I feel an ES in my future. I've been hoping for steel legs.

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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: desertlens]
      #5225669 - 05/16/12 06:28 PM

Tonight I will be able to finally get the mount out under clear skies.
I have some mods to make then get cleaned up and the scope is already locked and loaded for the evening.
m2


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munchmeister
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5225951 - 05/16/12 10:20 PM

Quote:

I recall reading some criticism of the Porta II's tripod being vibration prone, and that the Vixen Star Guy was an improvement. The specs of the Star Guy (operating height, load capacity, weight) seem similar to the ES I but at $100 more.

I was curious why you want an alt-az mount since your scope came w/ an Orion Astroview EQ mount.



I've been buying ala carte. First, a CG-4 mount, motorized, ST-4. Then the Orion 120mm 'fractor OTA. In my case, I'd like the ease of panning around with this Orion 120. Might even get binoviewers but not till I've enjoyed that Q70 32 in my signature. You can go swimming in that thing. But the CG-4 is bulky and since it has the motors installed, the slo mo controls are not usable. I've also considered the Desert Sky DSV-1 which I could put onto a Slik CF camera tripod I have. No slo mo controls but reviewing all that is on the web/CN about those slo mo stalks, they sound fracture prone. I just want to enjoy swimming around with that f/5 refractor.


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Gary Riley
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Reged: 12/01/11

Loc: White Bluff, TN
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5227309 - 05/17/12 07:26 PM

Hey Manny,
Interested in how well the Twilight I does with your scope. I have a Celestron Omni XLT 102mm f/10 refractor OTA that I'm wondering if this mount and tripod will work well for it. My scope with finder and one of my Hyperion eyepieces puts the weight to almost 13 lbs.

Gary


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EdTheEdge
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Reged: 04/10/09

Loc: Lomita, CA
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Gary Riley]
      #5351718 - 08/04/12 01:19 PM

Too bad this thread stalled....

I just got mine yesterday and everything is fine except I did not get any washers, retaining clip or collar. I did get that additional round paperweight. I hope Bresser can send me a set.

Otherwise the mount seems like a perfect fit for my 80mm I used it for birding yesterday and it worked great. Then last night I was able to get in some sucker hole observing and I was quite please with the perfomance and sturdiness using my ED80 and ES8.8mm. It was a tad shakey but settled down rather quickly. I have but did not use antivibration pads. I want to try my 100mm when the clouds clear up. If it'll work with my 100ED I'll be a happy camper.

If Bresser sends me those missing parts that is!



Edited by EdTheEdge (08/04/12 01:28 PM)


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JoeM101
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Reged: 04/09/12

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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: EdTheEdge]
      #5352306 - 08/04/12 09:21 PM

thinking of getting one of these... very nice Manny

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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: EdTheEdge]
      #5352562 - 08/05/12 01:58 AM Attachment (79 downloads)

You won't have any problem getting the missing washers & collar from Explore Scientific because their customer support has been excellent. And tightening the mount to the tripod helps to reduce the shakes.

That being said, a little heftier and taller tripod would help to reduce the vibration & make for easier viewing although the price & weight would be more.

I've attached a photo of the ESTWI mount on a tripod for my old Meade 2080 SCT (the ESTWI tripod is also shown for comparison). I made an adapter plate of 3/4" plywood which allows the Meade SCT (in alt-az configuration) or my ESTWI mount to be installed on the old Meade tripod.


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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5353180 - 08/05/12 01:46 PM Attachment (80 downloads)

Here's another photo of my ED102 on the ESTW1 & Meade tripod.

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Agatha
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Reged: 06/04/12

Loc: Coulee Region, Wisconsin
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5353371 - 08/05/12 03:38 PM

Looks really nice. Good job on the adapter plate. Using wood is a great idea. Thanks for the inspiration.

Regards,

Linda B.


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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Agatha]
      #5353892 - 08/05/12 10:15 PM Attachment (62 downloads)

Thanks ... am trying to keep this thread alive.

Here's the tripod & wood adapter plate with my Meade 2080 & its spreader bar/plate. My 2080's clock drive works but I rarely use it. And the alt-az configuration is a little easier to use since the finder scope orientation is always at the same relative location rather than at some angle in the equatorial mode. Notice also that I swapped finders between the two scopes since they both use the same size bracket.


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EdTheEdge
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5354677 - 08/06/12 11:45 AM

Just a note..... I called ES/Bresser this morning and they are sendoing out my missing parts asap!!!!

Thanks ES!


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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5355376 - 08/06/12 07:33 PM

So witch is a better Alt Az mount.
The Versa Go, The ES Twilight 1, or the Vixen Star Guy?

Steve


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JoeM101
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Reged: 04/09/12

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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: stevew]
      #5355541 - 08/06/12 09:40 PM

Manny, with regards to the adapter plate you have on your alt bearing, what if you use a larger scope, won't that put a strain on the bearing when not in the horizontal position? the CG will be off quite a bit depending on the diameter of the OTA... how do you deal with that?

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Locoman
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: stevew]
      #5355563 - 08/06/12 09:53 PM

Quote:

So witch is a better Alt Az mount.
The Versa Go, The ES Twilight 1, or the Vixen Star Guy?

Steve



Which VersaGo are you asking about? The VersaGo with micro motion which is the same as the ES Twilight or the VersaGo "AKA" AZ4. I own the AZ4 and is an excellent mount for a 6" f/5 reflector or smaller. I own the StarGuy and it is an excellent mount for my C6-SCT and my ST120. I don't like using my reflector on the StarGuy. The StarGuy has the very sturdy HAL130SXG tripod and the Porta mount has a proven track record. Damping times with the ST120 and the C6 are minimal. The addition of Manny's mounting bracket and panhandle has made my StarGuy even better. I don't own the ES Twilight so I can't give an opinion about it.


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Starman81
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Locoman]
      #5359264 - 08/09/12 05:53 AM

Is there a compatible extension tube for this mount? Like this one here for the AT Voyager mount.

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Manny Myles
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: JoeM101]
      #5359349 - 08/09/12 07:48 AM

So far I have not had to do anything to the mounts I use the bracket on.
The mounts I use it on include the Porta and Voyager and all these come with clutches to dial up or down the tension should I need to.
When I got all 3 of these mounts I have never had to adjust the tension ever, factory set out of the box, some might need to.
Maybe some other owners could speak up.
m2


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JoeM101
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Reged: 04/09/12

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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5359465 - 08/09/12 09:42 AM

Quote:

So far I have not had to do anything to the mounts I use the bracket on.
The mounts I use it on include the Porta and Voyager and all these come with clutches to dial up or down the tension should I need to.
When I got all 3 of these mounts I have never had to adjust the tension ever, factory set out of the box, some might need to.
Maybe some other owners could speak up.
m2




Manny, i was wondering if the center of gravity shift is noticeable, i imagine that using larger OTAs will cause the shift to be more pronounced as the CofG of the OTA will not be in line with rotational axis of the alt bearing if you have a fixed height on the bracket. if you leave the tension off and balance the scope in the horizontal, what happens if you move to say 45 degrees alt?


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beatlejuice
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: JoeM101]
      #5359942 - 08/09/12 01:45 PM

Quote:

if you leave the tension off and balance the scope in the horizontal, what happens if you move to say 45 degrees alt?




Joe, concerning the voyager, I have Manny's bracket and use an Omni 120 on it. If I balance in the horizontal I am good up to about 70 degrees. But I usually tighten up the alt a bit after that just to be safe. (It should be noted that I use a cg4 tripod with extension to add more overall stability)

Eric


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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: beatlejuice]
      #5360012 - 08/09/12 02:19 PM

Sorry to digress from the subject of Manny's mod, but I just noticed that ES has a quick-start installation guide for the TWI mount: http://www.explorescientific.com/manuals/Twilight_I_Assembly_Drawing.pdf

One deviation I made from this guide is to install one of the flat washers at Point A instead of mounting all the washers at Point B.


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72king
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Reged: 07/25/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5360372 - 08/09/12 05:45 PM

Is the only place to buy this mount on http://www.telescopes.com/? Going to order it tonight for
Skywatcher pro 100ed. Any thoughts on a red dot finder?

mking


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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: 72king]
      #5360621 - 08/09/12 08:15 PM

The mount is in stock/available for $299 at the ES website: http://store.explorescientific.com/twilightiadjustableheadmountandtripod.aspx

Can't on the red dot finder for your scope, however.


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JoeM101
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: beatlejuice]
      #5360839 - 08/09/12 10:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

if you leave the tension off and balance the scope in the horizontal, what happens if you move to say 45 degrees alt?




Joe, concerning the voyager, I have Manny's bracket and use an Omni 120 on it. If I balance in the horizontal I am good up to about 70 degrees. But I usually tighten up the alt a bit after that just to be safe. (It should be noted that I use a cg4 tripod with extension to add more overall stability)

Eric




Eric, that's the thing, the bracket should take into account the OTA's diameter to attain proper balance, but i guess tensioning will do if it's close enough. I guess it's ok with scopes in the 3 to 6 inch diameter size. i'm curious though, why not mount it directly to the alt bearing? is it to allow accessories to be mounted on the rings? or is there another benefit? It seems that the mount will be laterally heavier, how does this affect stability... heftier tripod required?

Quote:

Is the only place to buy this mount on http://www.telescopes.com/? Going to order it tonight for
Skywatcher pro 100ed. Any thoughts on a red dot finder?

mking




I got the astro-tech red dot finder from astronomics.com, can't live without it now. great price and quality, as for the ES twilight, you can get it straight from explore scientific or the Orion versaGo III, same mount diff name from telescope.com

clear skies


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beatlejuice
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: JoeM101]
      #5360869 - 08/09/12 11:14 PM

Quote:

i'm curious though, why not mount it directly to the alt bearing? is it to allow accessories to be mounted on the rings? or is there another benefit?




Yes Joe that is the main reason as well as the panhandle that comes with the bracket. I have recently added JMI's TNT for voyager and therefore no longer need slowmo controls. I actually use a 4" riser most of the time on the Telrad and it is the most comfortable finding position that I have ever had. And yes, that is a heavier tripod underneath the mount extension(CG4) I swap mounts using the same tripod and extension depending on what I want to do. On occasion I use a 60mm with the same Telrad configuation which is a joy to use. The only overmounted situation I have.



Eric


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JoeM101
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: beatlejuice]
      #5360910 - 08/09/12 11:48 PM

Eric, i figured as much, perhaps custom brackets would be a good idea for associated ring sizes, just a thought, may not be practical but i'm sure it would be welcome when balance becomes an issue at higher elevation. Don't get me wrong, i think it's a great idea as i'm actually designing a mount and had a similar config and almost scrapped it due to the CG concern... have you seen the Canadian Telescopes heavy duty duo, i was looking at a variation of this sort of design also but have to say, i really like the ESTWI very much as a GnG mount and Manny's bracket/pan-handle makes for a cool mod

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beatlejuice
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: JoeM101]
      #5360965 - 08/10/12 12:42 AM

Quote:

have you seen the Canadian Telescopes heavy duty duo


I have heard of it and I think there are a couple of threads on it somewhere. After closer inspection it seems like it would be a perfect fit on my mount extension. No,No I must not think like that

Eric


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Starman81
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Starman81]
      #5361919 - 08/10/12 03:05 PM

Quote:

Is there a compatible extension tube for this mount? Like this one here for the AT Voyager mount.




Does anyone know?


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72king
newbie


Reged: 07/25/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Starman81]
      #5362325 - 08/10/12 07:42 PM

Ordered scope (skywatcher pro 100ed) and mount. Should be here next week.

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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Starman81]
      #5362782 - 08/11/12 01:30 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Is there a compatible extension tube for this mount? Like this one here for the AT Voyager mount.




Does anyone know?





I suggest you phone ES & ask them if the pier extension for the Twilight II mount will work on the Twilight I. They told me that the Twilight I mount head will fit on the Twilight II tripod (they installed it while I waited on the phone).

Here's the link for the pier extension: http://store.explorescientific.com/explorescientificaccypierextfortwilightmount.aspx


Good luck.


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Shawn H
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5366402 - 08/13/12 12:47 PM

Anybody get an answer if the pier extension works on the Twilight 1

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Starman81
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Shawn H]
      #5366997 - 08/13/12 05:51 PM

Quote:

Anybody get an answer if the pier extension works on the Twilight 1




I called a couple times this afternoon but got voicemail both times... I didn't bother to leave one though.


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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Starman81]
      #5367493 - 08/13/12 10:41 PM

FWIW, here's a link to another thread that indicates the TW I head will fit on the CG5/CG4 tripods:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=lxd55&Number=5338638&Forum=,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,f41,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,&Words=ES%20Twiglight%20I&Searchpage=17&Limit=50&Main=5337061&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=1&oldertype=w&bodyprev=#Post5338638


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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5367499 - 08/13/12 10:47 PM

I'd like to clarify some small errors from my previous posts regarding the TWI:

-The weight of the raw mount/tripod is 15.3 lbs. (my previous post of 18 lbs. is wrong)

-The vertical shaft which screws into the bottom of the mount head has a metric 10mm (X1.50) thread (my previous post of 3/8" is wrong).


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EdTheEdge
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Reged: 04/10/09

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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Starman81]
      #5369949 - 08/15/12 11:33 AM

Well 9 days later I got the rest of the parts for my mount. I cAn't believe that it took 9 days to get here from Arkansas.....

That aside, with the collar and the washers the mount is now pretty darned steady and is a perfect match for my 80mm. tonight I will try my 100ed on it. If that work I will be berry berry happy!


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Shawn H
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: EdTheEdge]
      #5374210 - 08/18/12 05:41 AM

I just ordered one! But couldn't find anything on an extension!

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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Shawn H]
      #5374663 - 08/18/12 12:59 PM

Quote:

I just ordered one! But couldn't find anything on an extension!




The extension is for the Twilight II mount & there's a question as to whether it will fit OK on the Twilight I.

Here's a link: http://store.explorescientific.com/explorescientificaccypierextfortwilightmount.aspx

But $99 is a somewhat expensive price to pay for a few more inches of height & you might consider investigating a more robust tripod. Our local Home Depot hardware store sells a surveyors tripod for $80, and I'm investigating the possibility of adapting it to the Twilight I.


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Shawn H
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5376974 - 08/20/12 03:20 AM

Stellarvue sells a nice surveyors tripod, but it goes for $199 bucks, Home depot is definately the better deal if you can adapt the mount to it!

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EdTheEdge
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Shawn H]
      #5377174 - 08/20/12 09:33 AM

So I finally got a chance to try the Twilight I mount head on my CG-5 tripod and got mixed results....

The alignment peg on the CG-5 tripod had to be removed to fit the Twilight I mount. Other than that it fit perfectly and was much more stable than the tripod it came with but still not ideal for larger scopes.

I was hoping that I could use my 100ED with this mount but it is just too shakey and proper focusing is a real chore. Just to be sure I tightened everything up and placed anitvibration pads under the tripod. Still stoo shakey.

So I guess in the end I have found a perfect G&G mount for my 80mm and that'll help but not exactly what I have been looking for....


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Shawn H
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: EdTheEdge]
      #5377185 - 08/20/12 09:42 AM

Is there any way you could add weights to the tripod

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OldManInHawaii
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Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: EdTheEdge]
      #5378064 - 08/20/12 05:38 PM

Quote:

So I finally got a chance to try the Twilight I mount head on my CG-5 tripod and got mixed results....

The alignment peg on the CG-5 tripod had to be removed to fit the Twilight I mount. Other than that it fit perfectly and was much more stable than the tripod it came with but still not ideal for larger scopes.

I was hoping that I could use my 100ED with this mount but it is just too shakey and proper focusing is a real chore. Just to be sure I tightened everything up and placed anitvibration pads under the tripod. Still stoo shakey.





At what magnification does the focusing become problematic for both configurations w/ and w/o the CG-5 tripod? On my Meade tripod, there are still shakes when focusing but they damp out quicker than with the ES tripod. I only went as high as 143X on my 100ED scope.

And when you are focusing your scope, are the axial brakes fully clamped down on your mount?

I guess the next step up in alt-az mounts w/ slow motion controls would be something like the Canadian Telescope Heavy Duty Duo T mount that Woodland Hills sells. But I think I can live with what I have now.


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OldManInHawaii
member


Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Shawn H]
      #5378075 - 08/20/12 05:42 PM

I'm sure weights can be added somehow, but doing so kinda defeats the grab n go.

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EdTheEdge
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5379057 - 08/21/12 09:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

So I finally got a chance to try the Twilight I mount head on my CG-5 tripod and got mixed results....

The alignment peg on the CG-5 tripod had to be removed to fit the Twilight I mount. Other than that it fit perfectly and was much more stable than the tripod it came with but still not ideal for larger scopes.

I was hoping that I could use my 100ED with this mount but it is just too shakey and proper focusing is a real chore. Just to be sure I tightened everything up and placed anitvibration pads under the tripod. Still stoo shakey.





At what magnification does the focusing become problematic for both configurations w/ and w/o the CG-5 tripod? On my Meade tripod, there are still shakes when focusing but they damp out quicker than with the ES tripod. I only went as high as 143X on my 100ED scope.

And when you are focusing your scope, are the axial brakes fully clamped down on your mount?

I guess the next step up in alt-az mounts w/ slow motion controls would be something like the Canadian Telescope Heavy Duty Duo T mount that Woodland Hills sells. But I think I can live with what I have now.




I tried several mags.... highest was 194X then 134X and finally 38X all were pretty much unacceptable for me. But that's with my f/9 100ED. Like I said my ES 80mm rides quite solidly on this mount.

Edited by EdTheEdge (08/21/12 10:00 AM)


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EdTheEdge
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Shawn H]
      #5379065 - 08/21/12 10:02 AM

Quote:

Is there any way you could add weights to the tripod




That would be easy to do... and I may try it at some point, but I want this mount to be as portable as possible.


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OldManInHawaii
member


Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: EdTheEdge]
      #5383864 - 08/24/12 01:11 AM

Again, let me say that I do get vibrations when I focus my ES 102ED APO (f7), but I can live with this. Tightening down the locks for both the azimuthal and altitude bearings is recommended before focusing to reduce the vibrations.

I also noticed that my ES TWI's azimuthal bearing has some detectable slop or play even after the azimuthal lock has been fully tightened down. The Orion Versago III manual does not indicate how to tighten the bearing. Perhaps this is the main source of the vibrations (?).

I think I'll send an email inquiry to ES and see if they can suggest anything.


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OldManInHawaii
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5385183 - 08/24/12 08:08 PM

Quote:

Again, let me say that I do get vibrations when I focus my ES 102ED APO (f7), but I can live with this. Tightening down the locks for both the azimuthal and altitude bearings is recommended before focusing to reduce the vibrations.

I also noticed that my ES TWI's azimuthal bearing has some detectable slop or play even after the azimuthal lock has been fully tightened down. The Orion Versago III manual does not indicate how to tighten the bearing. Perhaps this is the main source of the vibrations (?).

I think I'll send an email inquiry to ES and see if they can suggest anything.





Just received the following quick response to my inquiry from ES:

"I saw your question regarding your Twilight I mount. Unfortunately, there is not a way to tighten the azimuth bearing. Its actually a worm gear. There is a free spinning worm shaft that is pushing, pulling on a worm wheel/gear. Let me know if you have any questions.

Marty DeBriyn

marty@bresser.com

T: 866-252-3811 Ext. 311

F: 479-717-2898


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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5614755 - 01/10/13 12:15 AM Attachment (30 downloads)

Quote:

Came across another part that has no home, 3 hole spacing identicle to the 3 holes on altitude head since there are no directions in the box I'm guessing it's a spare cltuch bearing.

m2



I just received my ES Twilight today, and also found the extra part.
Does anyone have any idea of what its for?
I spent an hour scratching my head about it, until I found this post.
If it is superfluous it seems like a waste of materials.

Steve


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desertlens
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 12/06/10

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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: stevew]
      #5615518 - 01/10/13 01:15 PM

I too experienced some vibration and traced it to the arm. There is a bit of flexure in this component. My solution was to add two steel plates and essentially fill the opening in the arm. Vibration and damping time are significantly reduced. The photo shows this mod. This entire setup (minus the Nagler) weighs 11.2lb. or about 75% the rated capacity of the mount.



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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: desertlens]
      #5616317 - 01/10/13 09:40 PM

I just heard from Explore Scientific about the extra part.
Here is what they said.

"I apologize for the lack of a manual, or instructions for that piece. That piece is an adapter so that the tripod can be used as a camera tripod. Basically, you can detach part of the top of your mount head and place that piece on there so that you can attach a camera to your tripod. It is just an accessory, and not necessary for the mounts intended functions."

Steve


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desertlens
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: stevew]
      #5616591 - 01/11/13 01:24 AM

Thanks Steve for the info on the mystery part.

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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: desertlens]
      #5616660 - 01/11/13 04:05 AM

Quote:

My solution was to add two steel plates and essentially fill the opening in the arm. Vibration and damping time are significantly reduced.





Nicely done!
Looks like a great idea.
I had mine out tonight with my C5, It worked really well.
I used some vibration pads and dampening time after a good rap to one of the tripod legs while using 150X was only about 2 seconds.
Acceptable for this class of small mount.
I'm looking forward to trying my 105 F-6 achromat on it.
The tripod could be a touch taller, but so far I'm very happy with it for a lightweight grab and go type mount.

Steve


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desertlens
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: stevew]
      #5617311 - 01/11/13 01:46 PM

Steve,
The mod reduced my damping time to about 1/2 second (certainly under one second) and touching the focuser induced very little movement. I also found that leg vibration in this mount was virtually nil on a hard surface if the rubber leg tips are removed. I think that my AV pads work best with aluminum leg tripods. The steel legs used by ES are very stiff and don't carry much (if any) vibration in my setup.


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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: desertlens]
      #5618086 - 01/11/13 09:57 PM

Craig,
I was also thinking about removing the rubber tips.
I'll give it a try.
The C5 is very stable on the mount as it's a short stubby tube. There was no vibration at all using the smooth SCT focus knob. My 4 inch F-6 achromat will probably be a different story, however a fast achromat is not a high power scope anyway. I found the slow motion controls on the mount to be very smooth and responsive as well.
I'd love to hear more about your modification, as it might be something I look into in the future.

Steve


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desertlens
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Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: stevew]
      #5618935 - 01/12/13 12:02 PM

Steve,
The mod is very simple: 2 3"x4" steel plates, clear drilled for 1/4"-20 machine screws and nuts. No tapping is necessary. The arm is sandwiched between the two. I don't know the actual gauge of the plates as they were scrap and I don't have a caliper but they're just under 1/8". Since refractors carry their weight at the ends, the longer tube of your 4" will likely have some moment arm and could benefit from the added stiffness. I like this mount. The steel legs are vibration dead. The motions are smooth with a little slop in azimuth as mentioned earlier and the wide stance and weight of the legs minimizes the "tail heavy" tendencies of this type of mount with an angled arm. Good luck and clear skies.


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cirrus1500
member


Reged: 04/09/13

Loc: California
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5970488 - 07/14/13 02:28 PM

Hi,


Quote:

I'd like to clarify some small errors from my previous posts regarding the TWI:

-The weight of the raw mount/tripod is 15.3 lbs. (my previous post of 18 lbs. is wrong)

-The vertical shaft which screws into the bottom of the mount head has a metric 10mm (X1.50) thread (my previous post of 3/8" is wrong).




I have an observation about the ES-TW1's weight. If the ES-TW1 is the same product as the Orion's Versago III, then their weight should be the same. According to Orion, Versago is 18 lbs (see Versago III specs), so maybe your original post on ES-TW1 weight of 18 lbs is correct?

OTOH, from another thread, Jim7728 mentioned that the ES-TW1's tripod is a CG4, and the Starboy's tripod is equivalent to a CG5. And the Starboy's weight is also 18 lbs according to Vixen. If the ES-TW1 and Starguy are both 18 lbs and the Starguy uses a CG5 equivalent tripod, that will seem to suggest that the ES-TW1/Versago III's mount is heavier (more heavy duty?) than the Starguy's mount? Reviews from this thread also suggest that ES-TW1's CG4-like tripod is stable enough while Locoman commented that the Astroguy's mount is the weak link (this thread). If so, it will seem the ES-TW1 has a better balance of mount and tripod than Starguy and at the same time still manage to be $100 cheaper. Is this the correct conclusion? I am interested in buying 1 of them and would like to know which one to get. I am planning to use the mount with an existing 6" F5 reflector and a 102mm F9.8 refractor. I want the setup to be as portable as possible.

Edited by cirrus1500 (07/14/13 02:33 PM)


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